Surrender - Question for group

June 17, 2004

Dear All,

Here is a question ...

What is the meaning of true surrender ?

Please give your answer in two parts

1) Your understanding

2) Any quotes from scriptural references regarding surrender to

God/Guru .

Lets put our thinking caps on and compile our thoughts on this

topic.

JAI MAA

Latha

June 18, 2004

1) trust, then unity.

2) "Q: What is the nature of the trust between guru and disciple?

A: A relationship of surrender and acceptance. If there is no

trust, there can't be surrender and acceptance."

Baba Hari Das

steve

, "Latha Nanda" <lathananda>

wrote:

> Dear All,

>

> Here is a question ...

>

> What is the meaning of true surrender ?

>

> Please give your answer in two parts

>

> 1) Your understanding

> 2) Any quotes from scriptural references regarding surrender to

> God/Guru .

>

> Lets put our thinking caps on and compile our thoughts on this

> topic.

>

> JAI MAA

> Latha

June 18, 2004

, "Latha Nanda" <lathananda>

wrote:

> Dear All,

>

> Here is a question ...

>

> What is the meaning of true surrender ?

> Please give your answer in two parts

>1) Your understanding

> 2) Any quotes from scriptural references regarding surrender to

> God/Guru .

I think the following exposition of the shloka from Saundaryalahari,

by the late Acharya is true surrender.

http://www.geocities.com/profvk/gohitvip/DPDS46-50.html

-----------------------------

japo jalpaH shilpaM sakalam-api mudrA-virachanA

gatiH prAdakshhiNya-kramaNam ashanAdy-Ahuti vidhiH /

praNAmaH samveshaH sukhaM akhilaM AtmArpaNa-dRshA

saparyA paryAyaH tava bhavatu yan-me vilasitaM // 27 //

(The word-by-word meaning comes out in the Paramacharya's

explanation itself; so it is not given separately)

Whatever actions we do everything must be in dedication to ambaa

–

this is the sum and substance of this shloka. Worship, japam,

showing mudrAs by the fingers of the hand, circumambulation,

prostration, offering in the fire with the chanting of mantras in

propitiation of ambaa – all these are usually done in honour of

ambaa by Her devotees. Yes, all these have to be done. But the

matter should not end there. Doing all this for a portion of the

time, and then for the rest of the time getting fully immersed in

material matters of the world, is exactly what should be avoided. It

is not like `A few hours for ambaa; and the rest of the time for

me

and my worldly activities'. All the time everything should become

a

worship, everything should be a japam, a homam and an offering. That

is how we should change our life style. Not only the devotees, but

all should be able to do this.

But how is this possible? Is this feasible? Don't I have to

bathe?

Don't I have to eat, sleep, mix with people, do my work in the

world? I hear you are all raising these questions immediately. You

may say that even the great so-called jnAnis (enlightened ones) are

certainly doing all these routine activities of worldly life. So

what is wrong?

Let it be. She as the Divine Mother has to perform Her leelA. That

is alright. But how is it that the jnAnis, who know it is all Her

leelA, are still working in the mundane world? You should also be

like those jnAnis. Be in the world, not of the world. Maybe it is

not possible just immediately. But gradually, you can train

yourself to be so. Effort and constant practice are needed. For the

present, start convincing yourself that your bathing, eating,

talking, sleeping, walking, and all these ordinary activities are

all happening because of Her Shakti – without which by yourself

you

cannot do a single thing. Constantly tell yourself that this is so.

Slowly keep widening this belief for evcery action of yours.

When you recognize that you are eating because of the power She has

given you to eat, you would not have the heart to send rubbish stuff

into your stomach. When the belief settles in that it is ambaa that

makes you walk, you will hesitate twice before wasting it on going

to the races or the movies. When you know that it is by Her Grace

you are talking, you would not waste it on gossiping or scolding

another or discussing disgusting material. When we are aware of the

fact that hands and feet are working because of Her, we would stop

using them for doing wrong things.

Gradually, in due time, this conviction has to spread to your mental

activities also. In other words, the egoistic thought of `I am

planning this or that' will give way to the thought `Let Her

get

this done, if She wishes'. This change in the thought processes

is

important because it is through the mind all the mAyic changes and

troubles of the world emerge. And they prevent the nullifying of the

mind and the entry into jnAna mArga. Once we transfer the

responsibilities to the Divine Mother, the impact of the mind will

slowly disappear. Thereafter, whether She keeps us talking, walking

or eating or She keeps us without any of these, in any case, we

would be peaceful at the bottom of our heart. It is to reach that

state, to pray for that state to be possible, that this shloka has

been given to us by the Acharya.

"japo jalpaH": `jalpa' means talk, whether it is

meaningful or

not. So all this talk should be a japam. In other words, it is the

state of whatever we talk becoming an offering of japam for Her.

There are several mantras like `BalA', `ShhoDashI',

and `panchadashI'. All these mantras are done in a japa form.

We are

not saying that they should not be done. But ultimately, the japa

as a separate activity has to disappear and the conviction should

occur that whatever we talk is a japa offering to Her.

"sakalaM shilpam-api mudrA-virachanA": Whatever I do by my

hand,

let it be a mudrA that one does in Your pUjA. Here `shilpam'

must be

taken to mean any kind of work. Unfortunately the tamil

word `shilpam' means only sculpture. Maybe because Man

produces

forms just as the Creator creates human beings.

"gatiH prAdakshhiNya-kramaNaM" : Whatever movement I do let

it be a

circumambulation of You. Wherever I go let me have the feeling that

I am doing a pradakshhiNA of You.

"ashanAdi" : food, etc. Since the `etc.' is there it

means not only

food that is eaten, but food that is consumed by the other senses

like eyes and ears. So all sensual experiences are covered.

"Ahuti vidhiH" : Let them be the offerings given to the

sacred fire

lit for You.

In fact all eating is done only after giving the first five morsels

to the five prANas. In the Gita also, the Lord says that He it is

who digests the food by being VaishvAnara as `JATharAgni' in

the

stomach. Once we have the conviction that it is He that is sitting

inside and consuming what we send through the mouth, then we would

not be sending in wine and meat for His consumption. The same logic

applies to the sensual consumption by eyes, ears, skin, and nose.

Everything is experienced by Him and so let us dare not send in

undesirable things.

"praNAmas-samveshaH" : Let my very sleeping be a namaskara

done to

You. Once we realise that our lying down for rest is nothing but a

namaskaram at the feet of ambaa, that would itself give us total

peace and relaxation.

Why carry on this list in detail. It is not necessary to do special

japa, homa, namakara and such rituals. Whatever we naturally do ,

let it be our pUja to You – this is the meaning of "sukham

akhilam

AtmArpaNa-dRshA saparyA paryAyaH tava bhavatu yan me vilasitaM".

Here "saparyA" means pUjA. "paryAya" has many

meanings, one of which

is `substitute'. So this gives the meaning: Let whatever I do

be

a `substitute' for the pUjA to be done to You.

-----------------------------

June 18, 2004

, "Satish Arigela"

<satisharigela> wrote:

> -----------------------------

> japo jalpaH shilpaM sakalam-api mudrA-virachanA

>

> gatiH prAdakshhiNya-kramaNam ashanAdy-Ahuti vidhiH /

>

> praNAmaH samveshaH sukhaM akhilaM AtmArpaNa-dRshA

>

> saparyA paryAyaH tava bhavatu yan-me vilasitaM // 27 //

I uploaded an audio file of above shloka, recited by Bombay sisters.

It is in files section of group homepage as 27.mp3 if anyone wants

to hear.

sa.

June 18, 2004

Dear Shri Latha and Members:

1) To me surrender means completely being able to "give up the ego"

and its negative vices that are within us and this in my opinion can

only be accomplish by Worship of God kind of the saying "Let Go and

Let God."

So for the sake of Love and Worship for God I have taken up the

calling of His Name (Nama), and Daily Prayer and the Study of

Spiritual Scriptures.

Yoga Sutra 2:1

Tapah-svadhyayesvara-pranidhanani kriya-yogah

Translation:

Tapas (penance), swadhyaya (self study), and isvara pranidhana (

surrender to God) are the three essential prerequisite (kriya)

activities that lead us to realizing the fruit of yoga..

2) The following in my opinion scriptures are good references

Jesus said in Mark 12:30

"And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all

your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.".

Maha Rishi Patanjali said in Yoga Sutra 1:23

isvara-pranidhanad va

Translation:

"the state of yoga is attained by complete, instant, dynamic,

energetic and vigilant surrender of the ego-principle to the

omnipresent ever-existent reality or god. This is instant realization

of God as the only reality, when the (ego's?) quest of self-knowledge

meets its counterpart, ignorance, and stands bewildered in choiceless

encounter, and when the ego-ignorance phantom instantly collapses."

http://www.dailyreadings.com/ys1-3.htm

, "Satish Arigela"

<satisharigela> wrote:

> , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda>

> wrote:

> > Dear All,

> >

> > Here is a question ...

> >

> > What is the meaning of true surrender ?

> > Please give your answer in two parts

>

> >1) Your understanding

> > 2) Any quotes from scriptural references regarding surrender to

> > God/Guru .

>

> I think the following exposition of the shloka from Saundaryalahari,

> by the late Acharya is true surrender.

>

> http://www.geocities.com/profvk/gohitvip/DPDS46-50.html

>

> -----------------------------

> japo jalpaH shilpaM sakalam-api mudrA-virachanA

>

> gatiH prAdakshhiNya-kramaNam ashanAdy-Ahuti vidhiH /

>

> praNAmaH samveshaH sukhaM akhilaM AtmArpaNa-dRshA

>

> saparyA paryAyaH tava bhavatu yan-me vilasitaM // 27 //

>

> (The word-by-word meaning comes out in the Paramacharya's

> explanation itself; so it is not given separately)

>

> Whatever actions we do everything must be in dedication to ambaa

> –

> this is the sum and substance of this shloka. Worship, japam,

> showing mudrAs by the fingers of the hand, circumambulation,

> prostration, offering in the fire with the chanting of mantras in

> propitiation of ambaa – all these are usually done in honour of

> ambaa by Her devotees. Yes, all these have to be done. But the

> matter should not end there. Doing all this for a portion of the

> time, and then for the rest of the time getting fully immersed in

> material matters of the world, is exactly what should be avoided. It

> is not like `A few hours for ambaa; and the rest of the time for

> me

> and my worldly activities'. All the time everything should become

> a

> worship, everything should be a japam, a homam and an offering. That

> is how we should change our life style. Not only the devotees, but

> all should be able to do this.

>

> But how is this possible? Is this feasible? Don't I have to

> bathe?

> Don't I have to eat, sleep, mix with people, do my work in the

> world? I hear you are all raising these questions immediately. You

> may say that even the great so-called jnAnis (enlightened ones) are

> certainly doing all these routine activities of worldly life. So

> what is wrong?

>

> Let it be. She as the Divine Mother has to perform Her leelA. That

> is alright. But how is it that the jnAnis, who know it is all Her

> leelA, are still working in the mundane world? You should also be

> like those jnAnis. Be in the world, not of the world. Maybe it is

> not possible just immediately. But gradually, you can train

> yourself to be so. Effort and constant practice are needed. For the

> present, start convincing yourself that your bathing, eating,

> talking, sleeping, walking, and all these ordinary activities are

> all happening because of Her Shakti – without which by yourself

> you

> cannot do a single thing. Constantly tell yourself that this is so.

> Slowly keep widening this belief for evcery action of yours.

>

> When you recognize that you are eating because of the power She has

> given you to eat, you would not have the heart to send rubbish stuff

> into your stomach. When the belief settles in that it is ambaa that

> makes you walk, you will hesitate twice before wasting it on going

> to the races or the movies. When you know that it is by Her Grace

> you are talking, you would not waste it on gossiping or scolding

> another or discussing disgusting material. When we are aware of the

> fact that hands and feet are working because of Her, we would stop

> using them for doing wrong things.

>

> Gradually, in due time, this conviction has to spread to your mental

> activities also. In other words, the egoistic thought of `I am

> planning this or that' will give way to the thought `Let Her

> get

> this done, if She wishes'. This change in the thought processes

> is

> important because it is through the mind all the mAyic changes and

> troubles of the world emerge. And they prevent the nullifying of the

> mind and the entry into jnAna mArga. Once we transfer the

> responsibilities to the Divine Mother, the impact of the mind will

> slowly disappear. Thereafter, whether She keeps us talking, walking

> or eating or She keeps us without any of these, in any case, we

> would be peaceful at the bottom of our heart. It is to reach that

> state, to pray for that state to be possible, that this shloka has

> been given to us by the Acharya.

>

> "japo jalpaH": `jalpa' means talk, whether it is

> meaningful or

> not. So all this talk should be a japam. In other words, it is the

> state of whatever we talk becoming an offering of japam for Her.

>

> There are several mantras like `BalA', `ShhoDashI',

> and `panchadashI'. All these mantras are done in a japa form.

> We are

> not saying that they should not be done. But ultimately, the japa

> as a separate activity has to disappear and the conviction should

> occur that whatever we talk is a japa offering to Her.

>

> "sakalaM shilpam-api mudrA-virachanA": Whatever I do by my

> hand,

> let it be a mudrA that one does in Your pUjA. Here `shilpam'

> must be

> taken to mean any kind of work. Unfortunately the tamil

> word `shilpam' means only sculpture. Maybe because Man

> produces

> forms just as the Creator creates human beings.

>

> "gatiH prAdakshhiNya-kramaNaM" : Whatever movement I do let

> it be a

> circumambulation of You. Wherever I go let me have the feeling that

> I am doing a pradakshhiNA of You.

>

> "ashanAdi" : food, etc. Since the `etc.' is there it

> means not only

> food that is eaten, but food that is consumed by the other senses

> like eyes and ears. So all sensual experiences are covered.

>

> "Ahuti vidhiH" : Let them be the offerings given to the

> sacred fire

> lit for You.

>

> In fact all eating is done only after giving the first five morsels

> to the five prANas. In the Gita also, the Lord says that He it is

> who digests the food by being VaishvAnara as `JATharAgni' in

> the

> stomach. Once we have the conviction that it is He that is sitting

> inside and consuming what we send through the mouth, then we would

> not be sending in wine and meat for His consumption. The same logic

> applies to the sensual consumption by eyes, ears, skin, and nose.

> Everything is experienced by Him and so let us dare not send in

> undesirable things.

>

> "praNAmas-samveshaH" : Let my very sleeping be a namaskara

> done to

> You. Once we realise that our lying down for rest is nothing but a

> namaskaram at the feet of ambaa, that would itself give us total

> peace and relaxation.

>

> Why carry on this list in detail. It is not necessary to do special

> japa, homa, namakara and such rituals. Whatever we naturally do ,

> let it be our pUja to You – this is the meaning of "sukham

> akhilam

> AtmArpaNa-dRshA saparyA paryAyaH tava bhavatu yan me vilasitaM".

> Here "saparyA" means pUjA. "paryAya" has many

> meanings, one of which

> is `substitute'. So this gives the meaning: Let whatever I do

> be

> a `substitute' for the pUjA to be done to You.

> -----------------------------

June 20, 2004

My understanding about surrender is : we must ber a mirror of our

Guru. This must be our goal, but it is not easy...I think it is a

process continuous and we are in.

2) Please see Bhagavad Gita Chapter 10 Verse 9

In the Book: La Sagrada Ensenanza de Sri Ramakrishna, Sri Ramakrshna say about surrender:

( I can´t write in english this text, I don´t know ( Please help me

Ganesh or who can speek spanish)

"Cuando la bendita Radha fue puesta a prueba para demostrar su

castidad, exigiendosele que llevara agua en una jarra con mil

agujeros, y ella tuvo exito llevando la jarra llena sin que cayera

una sola gota, todos la aclamaron entusiastamente declarando que

nunca hubo ni habrá una mujer tan casta como ella. Al oir esto, Radha

exclamó: "?Por que me colmáis de alabanzas? Decid más bien: Gloria a

Krishna! Gloria a EL solo! Yo tan solo soy Su servidora."

Please excuse me because I don´t speek english but

I hope all us surrender to GOD. Jay Maa!!! Jay Swamiji!!!

Jay all devotees!!! I bow to all you.

"Latha Nanda <lathananda > wrote:

Dear All,Here is a question ...What is the meaning of true surrender

?Please give your answer in two parts1) Your understanding 2) Any

quotes from scriptural references regarding surrender to God/Guru

..Lets put our thinking caps on and compile our thoughts on this

topic.JAI MAALatha Messenger - Fale com seus amigos online.

Instale agora!

June 20, 2004

Latha Nanda <lathananda > wrote:

Dear All,Here is a question ...What is the meaning of true surrender

?Please give your answer in two parts1) Your understanding 2) Any

quotes from scriptural references regarding surrender to God/Guru

..Lets put our thinking caps on and compile our thoughts on this

topic.JAI MAALatha Messenger - Fale com seus amigos online.

Instale agora!

June 21, 2004

To me this is a daunting question. Surrender is something that I have

been woefully short of at crutial moments throughout the course of my

life. In more recent times surrender is equaling myself and yielding

to the opportunity that the Goddess brings before me. The voracious

pairs of demonds jointly opperative within me, fears,

inhibitions and ego relinguised to the Goddess is surrender. If I am

to salvage myself from devastion, ruin, faulty values and ill

proclivity, I must attain the capacity to surrender to the Goddess.

When panicked I become mentally fragmented and then torn to pieces.

Such aberance is not conducive to the sadak's quest. The holy mind

must become wholly relinguished to the Goddess. Do you suppose that

surrender is akin to perfect devotion? If so I must remember to

request it as I near completion of each and every Chandi forever

more.

, "Latha Nanda" <lathananda>

wrote:

> Dear All,

>

> Here is a question ...

>

> What is the meaning of true surrender ?

>

> Please give your answer in two parts

>

> 1) Your understanding

> 2) Any quotes from scriptural references regarding surrender to

> God/Guru .

>

> Lets put our thinking caps on and compile our thoughts on this

> topic.

>

> JAI MAA

> Latha

June 21, 2004

Thank you for this post. I am particularly moved by the last three

sentences. And I do feel that pure devotion is akin to surrender.

And we do need to remember to pray to the Goddess continually for

pure devotion, wisdom and full surrender. Jai Maa!

"rudran2" <stechiekov >

Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:35:55 -0000

Re: Surrender - Question for group