Suffering

July 9, 2004

When I was 22 yrs old, I met Shunryu Suzuki Roshi, the Zen Master, and I

started doing daily meditation with him. Since I was an innocent and didn't

know any better, I followed his directions and started in full lotus. He

made sure that my asan was correct and taught me how to focus on my breath.

Since I had been a dancer for many years, I was quite flexible. But

extended periods of "sitting" still brought pain in the ankles and sometimes

in the hips and numbness. Sometimes when we stood up to bow after the

meditation period, both of my legs would be completely asleep and I would

rock back and forth, afraid that I would fall over.

After 2 and a half years of daily meditation in which I experienced varying

levels of pain, one day I noticed that there was absolutely no pain. It was

amazing. Then I heard an inner voice say "you have now gone beyond pain."

When I was 28 and in labor preparing for the birth of my first child I

wondered what it would be like. I had meditated with my neighborhood

meditation buddies right up to when my labor started. It was a long

difficult ride to the hospital. When I got there, I got up on the bed, went

into lotus, and continued my meditation. The nurses gave me a really strange

look. They had never seen a woman in hard labor in deep meditation before.

During the next six hours, I could hear "someone" moaning and crying and

sometimes screaming. But that was not "me". I was continuing deeply in

meditation, united with the Self that is beyond pleasure and pain. I

remember seeing the worried, helpless look on my husband's face. I tried to

reassure him that "I" was fine.

At 6:53 am the next day, our precious daughter was born, weighing in at 9

lbs, 3 oz.. We named her Ananda Mae. I didn't know what the name meant.

It came from my heart. Traditional spelling would be Anandamayi or

bliss-filled. I am not so sure if she would describe her life as

bliss-filled. But I know that her mother is bliss-filled and my prayer for

her was that she would walk the spiritual path and eventually reach her

goal.

I am very fortunate that I have not been plagued with chronic pain. I have

had periods of acute pain following surgeries and automobile accidents and

have been laid up for extended periods of time. (as long as six months) I

know this is going to sound weird, but I have seen these times as blessings.

I needed a break from my work life and the pressures of being a single

mother and Mother knew it. She MADE me stop. Each of these times, my

meditations have grown deeper, my studies more fruitful and joyful. I have

been so glad and grateful to be alive that once again, I was blessed to go

beyond pain.

I hope that you won't think that I am bragging or that I am belittling the

extent of your pain. All that I am saying is that Mother always gives me

what I need whether it is pain or pleasure or the state beyond both. It is

not my doing. It is a divine gift, just as life is. My part has been to

keep up the sadhana. Her's is the grace.

Namaste'

Your dharma sister,

Ardis

July 10, 2004

pranams linda. there are pains that are beyond normal management.

this is the kind of pain i am talking about.

i have had all sorts of pain like any other living being. i have

been in car wrecks too. but all this pain was in some way manageable.

i think ... i guess i can say "i know ... via experience" ... there

are some pains that are not manageable in the normal course of

events, not unless, one's mind is in some very advanced state prior

to the pain's commencement.

people btw in general don't like to talk about pain especially in

the usa. better to ignore it. but this suffering, this drives us

further into spiritual life, not farther away.

spiritual life is not enough if it is just a band aid. so the

excruciating and overwhelming pain humans and all sentient beings

can experience should, in my view, in some way be acknowledged and

respected. like death, and birth, parasites and butterflies. all

this is incredible, this life.

recently i had an unbearable experience with pain, i had to go to

the hospital. the thing is, i could think, but the misery of the

physical pain itself was incredible. what if i had to live with that

the rest of my life? could i do it? or not? maybe not.

al throughout the pain i tired to connect to the mother. this i

could do via mind only, not any feedback of bliss.

during periods of extended meditation, i felt like i could endure

any pain, as all sensation was very very distant, and the question

of "who" was experiencing was very present for me.

i think my observation is, life is very, very broad. my own

experience in these short years have been varied. what can i say

about pain? and control? and god? i am not in charge of all this,

that is what pain is telling me. our range of tolerance is a sliver

in the scale of infinity. a sliver! a hair sliced sideways into a

millionth of its usual thickness! compassion is the only answer to

pain that i can grasp, my own or anyone's.

my feeling is, it is naive to say "pain is in the mind." [i am not

saying swamiji or anyone here is saying that.] a spiritually minded

person can be very vulnerable to their actual state, and not pretend

otherwise. this is gold, this honesty.

life is extremely unpredictable when we live in the mind-world. in

extreme states of attention, when we are returning to a very

magnetic center, then we are shifting out of that, and states occur

when pain might be very different. my observation is our

neurological structure undergoes some kind of shift. but we are

incredibly resilient beings, and we will bounce back out of these

states over time and be subject to those pains again. i would be

interested to hear of anyone stabilized in a condition being pain on

a permanent basis, iow, permanent being the life span of that entity.

the mind is like some sort of experiential tree. all sorts of juice

and life is going up and down the trunk, into the leaves, the roots,

receiving, expelling, communicating, etc. there is a heart or center

too. people fall into it in rare moments, maybe they almost die, or

are very stoned ... whatever. or, they meditate and move towards

THAT intentionally.

when we do, if there is enough persistence, the "tree" starts

showing signs of falling apart, or caving into itself. this is no

game [not that it is some sort of morbid thing either.] the

structure of awareness is being fiddled with, in that, the habitual

supports are being deprived. it is the essence of austerity. this

austerity is so intense even the gods are not allowed. i am not

saying this is a course anyone should take, only that it exists.

this inner collapse [if anyone has ever gone there or taken an

interest in this sort of thing] is coincident with all sorts of

bliss and very, very steady states of awareness. you are moving to a

collapse of will in the normal sense. pain isn't even an issue.

nothing is. but everything keeps moving on. that is life.

there is a place to pass beyond. i have not gone there. maybe

someone some day will take me by the hand and go there for a

permanent vacation.

if i go i hope to see you there, in freedom within incarnated

existence, but not in denial of any asepct of it.

om, pranams, praises to you linda, to shree maa, swamiji, lathaji,

parvati, siddhananda, vishweshwar, all my friends at the mandir and

this site.

one last thought, on this life and pain. lately i notice the mother

bringing good things. why is this? is it the result of some

devotion? does it prove anything? the only principles we have for

sure are the virtues of giving, giving, giving. in great pain,

maybe we have only a little thought to give. the tiniest gesture is

received. so we make that gesture, even if it is a little dying

breath. ome shalom, love to all, peace, peace, peace, freedom from

pain as well, whatever its cause.

steve

, nierika@a... wrote:

> This is in response to so many people talking about suffering. At

times, the

> discussion seemed very intellectual to me. I am a person with

numerous

> chronic illnesses. The big whammy is called Neuroendocrine Immune

Disorder. I deal

> every day with pain, which is sometimes manageable and sometimes

puts me to

> bed. This pain may be specifically located or it may be diffused

all over my

> body. I get migraine headaches where even light and sound make it

worse. I get

> pain in my belly when it gets distended from my illness, and

sometimes, it

> is so distended I could look like I am 9 months pregnant. I am

not saying this

> for sympathy, but to make the discussion of suffering real for

me. I am not

> able to work, because of my illness, and I loved my work.

Sometimes I am not

> even able to endure the physical therapy that has been ordered

for me by my

> doctor.

>

> When I am in pain, I try to remember detachment, but I am no

swami, and my

> spiritual awareness, though lively in interest is a pinprick in

practice. I

> know, practice more. It is very hard to be detached from this

body, even when I

> am telling myself, "I am not this body." I try to remember Ganesha

and pray

> to him when my belly gets distended because I hate my belly and I

don't want

> to hate it. I say, "Look, Ganesha, I have a belly like You;

please help me to

> love it." I don't think hating my body for being sick is very

productive to

> my spiritual development.

>

> My question for Swami is this: for someone like me, who is in the

midst of

> suffering from a physical malady, how do I detach from my body,

which is giving

> me a variety of painful symptoms; how do I keep my mind focused

on

> God/Goddess; how do I accept my situation and go on each day? Is

there some specific

> practice that would help me? Thank you.

July 10, 2004

Dear Linda, Steve, Ardis, and everyone,

Thank you all for sharing your meditations, questions and

experiences around the issue of suffering. It really strikes me that

there is almost no one who has not had to cope with pain in one way

or another. Ardis, I loved your share of "mastering the lotus" and

of giving birth.

The thing that has crossed my mind is that, for me, there seems

to be a different "challenge" that comes up when one is faced with

severe pain limited to a specific time and chronic, ongoing,

debilitating suffering. Having spent two periods (of around 6

months) in bed with extremely severe pain, unable to walk..only able

to crawl to the bathroom..I can remember trying, in every way

possible to somehow "work with" the pain that was defintely NOT

going to go away one minute during the 24 hours, day after day. What

I discovered was that there is something that does seem to happen,

as Ardis so beautifully described, where "you" are not suffering at

all. Your body is suffering, sometimes unbearably, but "you" are

not. The hinge seems, as usual, to be the mind and where you place

that mind. Your mind tries to "figure it out", "deal with it", "pray

it away", "go somewhere else", "go deeply into it", "blame someone"

and on and on. At a particular time, it seems to give up, as there

is nothing "it" can do. Then something else takes over and "you" are

no longer suffering. Sometimes it's very easy to forget this lesson

in the Truth when you are able to get up and begin to walk again but

it's a very profound "map" for the Truth of how we are made...the

body, the mind and the pure Self that remains "untainted".

Chronic suffering is a whole different ballgame, in my experience.

It's the daily acceptance of a condition that is ongoing and has no

end in sight. We don't "decide" to engage it for a higher spiritual

truth (learning to sit through the recitation of Chandi Path without

moving, for instance). We don't know, at some point (after the

operation or at the end of the birth process or when we "grow out of

it")that it will, finally, end. Chronic suffering can be incredibly

debilitating..when every action demands more energy that one is

capable of, when there is never a day when you really "feel good",

when your world becomes so small and circumscribed. What lesson can

come from this? What can we do to "cope" with this condition? How

can we live in this state? The only thing that has been clear to me

about how to "cope" with this is to try and find the jewel hidden in

the middle of it. In my experience, this jewel has been two aspects

of spirituality that are talked about alot but, when you begin to

try to REALLY practice them, they are extremely difficult:

ACCEPTANCE and SURRENDER. Everything in us does NOT want to accept

chronic illness. Why should we want to? We want to be well: full of

energy, able to "do" what we feel "should" be done; we want to feel

useful and productive.If we suffer, we want to get through it, put

it behind it and learn the lessons of it. We want to feel good. But

the energy we expend fighting chronic illness is just what we need

to preserve in order to cope and, even, to flourish. There is

something magical that happens when we accept and surrender to what

we don't even want to admit is ruling our lives. This "curse" of

chronic suffering CAN be the very thing that allows us to step

across the threshold into the very moment we are experiencing. We

can't "do", we can't "perform", we can't "be normal". If we can just

give up the IDEA of what we "should" be, we can step into that world

that we are always reading about in the lives of the saints...and

trying to figure out how to "get to". It's really right there, in

every moment. Chronic illness or exhaustion or suffering can allow

you (as Ardis pointed out)to let go of all of the pressures of the

world of Maya. You can live in this secret world of the moment, as

the rest of the world rushes by looking for it. This, to me, is the

hidden jewel of suffering...but it takes tremendous courage and

strength to pick it up. Personally, I believe deeply that praying

for the Grace to have this strength is the only way. There is a way

of resting in that prayer and "giving it up" to Devi or to your guru

or to your ishta devata that is a HUGE relief.

Although I "understand" that suffering IS in the mind, for me,

this was not comforting...just another way to make myself feel even

worse than I did because not only was I feeling awful but it was,

somehow, "my own fault" that I felt that way. Acceptance and total

surrender to "what is" and, especially, taking REFUGE in the

compassion of the guru or of the ishta devata completely turned this

around for me. Just the relief of NOT fighting and of knowing that I

was being looked after, even if my mind could not understand how

this was happening was really life-changing. It just becomes a

constant practice whenever the "wanting to change things"

or "wanting to fix things" begins to re-surface...to SURRENDER and,

even more important: TO TAKE REFUGE.

with love to everyone here,

sadhvi

July 10, 2004

Thank you so much, Sadvi. This really deals with the whole problem of

chronic pain that I did not feel that I was qualified to talk about.

In regard to acceptance, Shunryu Suzuki Roshi said: "The only way you

can endure your pain is to let it be painful." In other words, don't

waste your strength and energy fighting it. "To live in the realm

of buddha nature (Big Mind) means to die as a small being, moment

after moment." Living in the moment is a great antidote to pain.

You are not adding the pain of the past or anticipating the pain of

the future. You are just taking this moment and relaxing into it,

accepting it as it is. In regard to giving others advice: "The way

that helps will not be the same. It changes according to the

situation."

Blessings to all and especially to all who are living with pain, big and small.

Love,

Ardis

"nityashakti" <sadhvi (AT) prodigy (DOT) net>

Sat, 10 Jul 2004 13:52:32 -0000

RE: suffering