suffering to Linda, Sadvi , we

[Guest guest]

Sometimes we are suffering, (small or big )but we must remember : We

have a Mother and a Father. They we will be help us. We must give

them our suffering, they will make a garland . We are very fool. They

must take our hand and show us the way. Sri Ramakrishna says: If the

child take the hand´s father, she can to fail. But if the father take

the hand`s child, she never is loose. Shree Maa sing "Please take my

hand my Lord and show me the way . I don´t know this path very

well....NOTHING can break this bond of faith."

(Excuse me I don´t speek english, so I hope you undertanding my English).

With love

Kalachandra

"Cold, hot, pleasure, pain, merely touch. They are temporary and

impermanent" (Bhagavad Gita 2:14)Steve Connor <sconnor (AT) austin (DOT) rr.com>

wrote:

yes yes ardis it changes by the situation. for someone the answer

might very well be, get rid of that pain, do not endure it. this is

listening without preconceived ideas but being open to the actual

circumstance and individual which is ever changing. pranams. steve---

In , Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...>

wrote:> Thank you so much, Sadvi. This really deals with the whole

problem of> chronic pain that I did not feel that I was qualified to

talk about. In> regard to acceptance, Shunryu Suzuki Roshi said:

"The only way you can> endure your pain is to let it be painful." In

other words, don't waste your> strength and energy fighting it. "To

live in the realm of buddha nature> (Big Mind) means to die as a

small being, moment after

moment." Living in> the moment is a great antidote to pain. You are

not adding the pain of the> past or anticipating the pain of the

future. You are just taking this moment> and relaxing into it,

accepting it as it is. In regard to giving others> advice: "The way

that helps will not be the same. It changes according to> the

situation." > > Blessings to all and especially to all who are living

with pain, big and> small.> > Love,> > Ardis> > "nityashakti"

<sadhvi@p...>> > Sat, 10

Jul 2004 13:52:32 -0000> > Subject:

RE: suffering> > > Dear Linda, Steve, Ardis, and

everyone,> Thank you all for sharing your meditations, questions

and> experiences around the issue of suffering.

It really strikes me that> there is almost no one who has not had to

cope with pain in one way> or another. Ardis, I loved your share of

"mastering the lotus" and> of giving birth.> The thing that has

crossed my mind is that, for me, there seems> to be a different

"challenge" that comes up when one is faced with> severe pain limited

to a specific time and chronic, ongoing,> debilitating suffering.

Having spent two periods (of around 6> months) in bed with extremely

severe pain, unable to walk..only able> to crawl to the bathroom..I

can remember trying, in every way> possible to somehow "work with"

the pain that was defintely NOT> going to go away one minute during

the 24 hours, day after day. What> I discovered was that there is

something that does seem to happen,> as Ardis so beautifully

described, where "you" are not suffering at> all. Your body is

suffering,

sometimes unbearably, but "you" are> not. The hinge seems, as usual,

to be the mind and where you place> that mind. Your mind tries to

"figure it out", "deal with it", "pray> it away", "go somewhere

else", "go deeply into it", "blame someone"> and on and on. At a

particular time, it seems to give up, as there> is nothing "it" can

do. Then something else takes over and "you" are> no longer

suffering. Sometimes it's very easy to forget this lesson> in the

Truth when you are able to get up and begin to walk again but> it's a

very profound "map" for the Truth of how we are made...the> body, the

mind and the pure Self that remains "untainted".> Chronic suffering

is a whole different ballgame, in my experience.> It's the daily

acceptance of a condition that is ongoing and has no> end in sight.

We don't "decide" to engage it for a higher spiritual> truth

(learning to sit through the

recitation of Chandi Path without> moving, for instance). We don't

know, at some point (after the> operation or at the end of the birth

process or when we "grow out of> it")that it will, finally, end.

Chronic suffering can be incredibly> debilitating..when every action

demands more energy that one is> capable of, when there is never a

day when you really "feel good",> when your world becomes so small

and circumscribed. What lesson can> come from this? What can we do to

"cope" with this condition? How> can we live in this state? The only

thing that has been clear to me> about how to "cope" with this is to

try and find the jewel hidden in> the middle of it. In my experience,

this jewel has been two aspects> of spirituality that are talked about

alot but, when you begin to> try to REALLY practice them, they are

extremely difficult:> ACCEPTANCE and SURRENDER. Everything in us does

NOT

want to accept> chronic illness. Why should we want to? We want to be

well: full of> energy, able to "do" what we feel "should" be done; we

want to feel> useful and productive.If we suffer, we want to get

through it, put> it behind it and learn the lessons of it. We want to

feel good. But> the energy we expend fighting chronic illness is just

what we need> to preserve in order to cope and, even, to flourish.

There is> something magical that happens when we accept and surrender

to what> we don't even want to admit is ruling our lives. This "curse"

of> chronic suffering CAN be the very thing that allows us to step>

across the threshold into the very moment we are experiencing. We>

can't "do", we can't "perform", we can't "be normal". If we can just>

give up the IDEA of what we "should" be, we can step into that world>

that we are always reading about in the lives of the

saints...and> trying to figure out how to "get to". It's really right

there, in> every moment. Chronic illness or exhaustion or suffering

can allow> you (as Ardis pointed out)to let go of all of the

pressures of the> world of Maya. You can live in this secret world of

the moment, as> the rest of the world rushes by looking for it. This,

to me, is the> hidden jewel of suffering...but it takes tremendous

courage and> strength to pick it up. Personally, I believe deeply

that praying> for the Grace to have this strength is the only way.

There is a way> of resting in that prayer and "giving it up" to Devi

or to your guru> or to your ishta devata that is a HUGE relief.>

Although I "understand" that suffering IS in the mind, for me,> this

was not comforting...just another way to make myself feel even> worse

than I did because not only was I feeling awful but it was,> somehow,

"my own

fault" that I felt that way. Acceptance and total> surrender to "what

is" and, especially, taking REFUGE in the> compassion of the guru or

of the ishta devata completely turned this> around for me. Just the

relief of NOT fighting and of knowing that I> was being looked after,

even if my mind could not understand how> this was happening was

really life-changing. It just becomes a> constant practice whenever

the "wanting to change things"> or "wanting to fix things" begins to

re-surface...to SURRENDER and,> even more important: TO TAKE REFUGE.>

with love to everyone here,> sadhvi > > > > > Sponsor

> > > > > Links> To visit your group on

the web, go to:> /> > To

from this group, send an email to:>

>

<?subject=Un>>

> Terms of

Service> <>

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[Guest guest]

Kala Chandra,

We love to hear from you. Your wisdom always comes through loud and

clear. Your English is just fine.

Love and blessings,

Ardis

Kala Chandra <kalachandra2003 .br>

Sun, 11 Jul 2004 09:41:02 -0300 (ART)

Re: Re: suffering to Linda, Sadvi , we

Dear Linda, Sadvi and all we

Sometimes we are suffering, (small or big )but we must remember : We

have a Mother and a Father. They we will be help us. We must give

them our suffering, they will make a garland . We are very fool. They

must take our hand and show us the way. Sri Ramakrishna says: If the

child take the hand´s father, she can to fail. But if the father take

the hand`s child, she never is loose.

Shree Maa sing "Please take my hand my Lord and show me the way . I

don´t know this path very well....NOTHING can break this bond of

faith."

(Excuse me I don´t speek english, so I hope you undertanding my English).

With love

Kalachandra

"Cold, hot, pleasure, pain, merely touch. They are temporary and

impermanent" (Bhagavad Gita 2:14)

Steve Connor <sconnor (AT) austin (DOT) rr.com> wrote:

yes yes ardis it changes by the situation. for someone the answer

might very well be, get rid of that pain, do not endure it. this is

listening without preconceived ideas but being open to the actual

circumstance and individual which is ever changing. pranams. steve

, Ardis Jackson <anandamama@e...>

wrote:

> Thank you so much, Sadvi. This really deals with the whole

problem of

> chronic pain that I did not feel that I was qualified to talk

about. In

> regard to acceptance, Shunryu Suzuki Roshi said: "The only way you

can

> endure your pain is to let it be painful." In other words, don't

waste your

> strength and energy fighting it. "To live in the realm of buddha

nature

> (Big Mind) means to die as a small being, moment after moment."

Living in

> the moment is a great antidote to pain. You are not adding the

pain of the

> past or anticipating the pain of the future. You are just taking

this moment

> and relaxing into it, accepting it as it is. In regard to giving

others

> advice: "The way that helps will not be the same. It changes

according to

> the situation."

>

> Blessings to all and especially to all who are living with pain,

big and

> small.

>

> Love,

>

> Ardis

>

> "nityashakti" <sadhvi@p...>

>

> Sat, 10 Jul 2004 13:52:32 -0000

>

> RE: suffering

>

>

> Dear Linda, Steve, Ardis, and everyone,

> Thank you all for sharing your meditations, questions and

> experiences around the issue of suffering. It really strikes me

that

> there is almost no one who has not had to cope with pain in one way

> or another. Ardis, I loved your share of "mastering the lotus" and

> of giving birth.

> The thing that has crossed my mind is that, for me, there seems

> to be a different "challenge" that comes up when one is faced with

> severe pain limited to a specific time and chronic, ongoing,

> debilitating suffering. Having spent two periods (of around 6

> months) in bed with extremely severe pain, unable to walk..only

able

> to crawl to the bathroom..I can remember trying, in every way

> possible to somehow "work with" the pain that was defintely NOT

> going to go away one minute during the 24 hours, day after day.

What

> I discovered was that there is something that does seem to happen,

> as Ardis so beautifully described, where "you" are not suffering at

> all. Your body is suffering, sometimes unbearably, but "you" are

> not. The hinge seems, as usual, to be the mind and where you place

> that mind. Your mind tries to "figure it out", "deal with

it", "pray

> it away", "go somewhere else", "go deeply into it", "blame someone"

> and on and on. At a particular time, it seems to give up, as there

> is nothing "it" can do. Then something else takes over and "you"

are

> no longer suffering. Sometimes it's very easy to forget this lesson

> in the Truth when you are able to get up and begin to walk again

but

> it's a very profound "map" for the Truth of how we are made...the

> body, the mind and the pure Self that remains "untainted".

> Chronic suffering is a whole different ballgame, in my experience.

> It's the daily acceptance of a condition that is ongoing and has no

> end in sight. We don't "decide" to engage it for a higher spiritual

> truth (learning to sit through the recitation of Chandi Path

without

> moving, for instance). We don't know, at some point (after the

> operation or at the end of the birth process or when we "grow out

of

> it")that it will, finally, end. Chronic suffering can be incredibly

> debilitating..when every action demands more energy that one is

> capable of, when there is never a day when you really "feel good",

> when your world becomes so small and circumscribed. What lesson can

> come from this? What can we do to "cope" with this condition? How

> can we live in this state? The only thing that has been clear to me

> about how to "cope" with this is to try and find the jewel hidden

in

> the middle of it. In my experience, this jewel has been two aspects

> of spirituality that are talked about alot but, when you begin to

> try to REALLY practice them, they are extremely difficult:

> ACCEPTANCE and SURRENDER. Everything in us does NOT want to accept

> chronic illness. Why should we want to? We want to be well: full of

> energy, able to "do" what we feel "should" be done; we want to feel

> useful and productive.If we suffer, we want to get through it, put

> it behind it and learn the lessons of it. We want to feel good. But

> the energy we expend fighting chronic illness is just what we need

> to preserve in order to cope and, even, to flourish. There is

> something magical that happens when we accept and surrender to what

> we don't even want to admit is ruling our lives. This "curse" of

> chronic suffering CAN be the very thing that allows us to step

> across the threshold into the very moment we are experiencing. We

> can't "do", we can't "perform", we can't "be normal". If we can

just

> give up the IDEA of what we "should" be, we can step into that

world

> that we are always reading about in the lives of the saints...and

> trying to figure out how to "get to". It's really right there, in

> every moment. Chronic illness or exhaustion or suffering can allow

> you (as Ardis pointed out)to let go of all of the pressures of the

> world of Maya. You can live in this secret world of the moment, as

> the rest of the world rushes by looking for it. This, to me, is the

> hidden jewel of suffering...but it takes tremendous courage and

> strength to pick it up. Personally, I believe deeply that praying

> for the Grace to have this strength is the only way. There is a way

> of resting in that prayer and "giving it up" to Devi or to your

guru

> or to your ishta devata that is a HUGE relief.

> Although I "understand" that suffering IS in the mind, for me,

> this was not comforting...just another way to make myself feel even

> worse than I did because not only was I feeling awful but it was,

> somehow, "my own fault" that I felt that way. Acceptance and total

> surrender to "what is" and, especially, taking REFUGE in the

> compassion of the guru or of the ishta devata completely turned

this

> around for me. Just the relief of NOT fighting and of knowing that

I

> was being looked after, even if my mind could not understand how

> this was happening was really life-changing. It just becomes a

> constant practice whenever the "wanting to change things"

> or "wanting to fix things" begins to re-surface...to SURRENDER and,

> even more important: TO TAKE REFUGE.

> with love to everyone here,

> sadhvi

>

>

>

>

> Sponsor

>

>

>

>

> Links

>

> /

>

>

>

> <?

subject=Un>

>

> Terms of Service

> <> .

 

 

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