Guest guest Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 Dear All, Again, sharing with you what I found on my travels on the web . I found this piece particularly interesting because it tells us how we can use our day to day challenges to purify ourselves. How we can accept instead of resisting pain and in the process get purified - I have applied this sometimes in my own life and do find the difference. Now it is only a matter of keeping this awareness all the time. I would be interested to know if others in the forum too can share any similar idea or experience . Jai Maa Latha ===================================================================== Many spiritual traditions involve the practice of asceticism, which means voluntarily taking on discomfort or deprivation. Properly understood, asceticism is done for spiritual purification, i.e. softening the substance of the solidified self. Pain multiplied by resistance equals suffering, but pain multiplied by acceptance equals cleansing. This tells us two important things. First, when pain is very intense, if you are able to maintain even a small degree of acceptance, then purification is still going on; that is, the pain is productive and meaningful. Second, even a small pain can bring significant purification if your attentiveness and equanimity are high. Thus, even though you may never do intense practices , you may attain comparably deep purification. This can be achieved by bringing an extraordinary amount of openness to the ordinary aches and discomforts of daily life. Once you clearly understand that pain multiplied by equanimity equals purification, you are able to make a "conceptual reframing" of the pain. You are able to sacramentalize it, to see it as a kind of imposed monastery or sacred ceremony. Seeing pain as a natural monastery or imposed retreat for spiritual growth is particularly significant for those in chronic pain. ================================================================ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 Latha: thank you for an excellent topic! in my experience with minor and moderate pain (thanks to my dear Mother that She hasn't so far "blessed" me with anything worse) I've found that a little advaita helps. For a while last year I was affected by tendonitis while I was walking for exercise, and at times the pain could be quite sharp. If I asked myself, however, "Who is feeling this?," the pain seemed to greatly lessen if not go away entirely. Of course, there are many ways to answer the question "Who is feeling this?" The simple answer, "I am," only begs the question "Who am I?" You can answer with your name--but if you changed your name, would the pain go away? You can answer with your occupation or some family relationship, but if those were to suddenly change, would the pain go away? You can say "A child of God is feeling it," but if you were an atheist, would things be any different? When I do this, I'm finally driven to the conviction that I am pure consciousness undifferentiated from pain or pleasure or anything else. (Let me be clear--I don't have that Realization--it's just an intellectual conviction. But it helps!) By the way, in my experience, pleasure is at least as difficult as pain to accept with equanimity. Both of them activate the ego and its selfishness, pain in an aversive sense and pleasure in an attractive, attaching sense. But both create selfishness if we don't offer them to God. Swamiji once said to me, "Pain is the lesson. Pleasure is the exam," and this simple but very profound truth has guided me ever since. Kalibhakta , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> wrote: > Dear All, > Again, sharing with you what I found on my travels on the web . I > found this piece particularly interesting because it tells us how we > can use our day to day challenges to purify ourselves. How we can > accept instead of resisting pain and in the process get purified - I > have applied this sometimes in my own life and do find the > difference. Now it is only a matter of keeping this awareness all > the time. I would be interested to know if others in the forum too > can share any similar idea or experience . > > Jai Maa > Latha > > ===================================================================== > > Many spiritual traditions involve the practice of asceticism, which > means voluntarily taking on discomfort or deprivation. > Properly understood, asceticism is done for spiritual purification, > i.e. softening the substance of the solidified self. > > Pain multiplied by resistance equals suffering, but pain multiplied > by acceptance equals cleansing. This tells us two important things. > First, when pain is very intense, if you are able to maintain even a > small degree of acceptance, then purification is still going on; > that is, the pain is productive and meaningful. Second, even a small > pain can bring significant purification if your attentiveness and > equanimity are high. Thus, even though you may never do intense > practices , you may attain comparably deep purification. This can be > achieved by bringing an extraordinary amount of openness to the > ordinary aches and discomforts of daily life. > > Once you clearly understand that pain multiplied by equanimity > equals purification, you are able to make a "conceptual reframing" > of the pain. You are able to sacramentalize it, to see it as a kind > of imposed monastery or sacred ceremony. Seeing pain as a natural > monastery or imposed retreat for spiritual growth is particularly > significant for those in chronic pain. > > ================================================================ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 4, 2004 Report Share Posted August 4, 2004 Kalibhakta, you have that realization even now, as there is no expectation of any particular sensation etc. attached to it ... even intellectual knowledge is another angle of that same light. but for sure, you cannot have it, as undifferentiated consciousness cannot have anything, as all is comiing and going in that space, or not even that, manifestation = mirages floating in that stillness. hm pain is the lesson and pleasure is the exam. interesting. i can sure see pleasure as the exam. pain tells us, YOU CANNOT DO THAT [anymore.] pleasure says, WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH? the lessons of severe pain can be incomprehensible. WHY IS THIS HAPPENING? meanwhile in the in-between zone, all is vanity as they say. we see that until there is no guilt, only seeing. undifferentiated consciousness. thou are that. steve , "kalibhakta" <dr_hampton@h...> wrote: > Latha: > > thank you for an excellent topic! > > in my experience with minor and moderate pain (thanks to my dear > Mother that She hasn't so far "blessed" me with anything worse) I've > found that a little advaita helps. > > For a while last year I was affected by tendonitis while I was walking > for exercise, and at times the pain could be quite sharp. If I asked > myself, however, "Who is feeling this?," the pain seemed to greatly > lessen if not go away entirely. Of course, there are many ways to > answer the question "Who is feeling this?" The simple answer, "I am," > only begs the question "Who am I?" > > You can answer with your name--but if you changed your name, would the > pain go away? You can answer with your occupation or some family > relationship, but if those were to suddenly change, would the pain go > away? You can say "A child of God is feeling it," but if you were an > atheist, would things be any different? When I do this, I'm finally > driven to the conviction that I am pure consciousness undifferentiated > from pain or pleasure or anything else. (Let me be clear--I don't have > that Realization--it's just an intellectual conviction. But it helps!) > > By the way, in my experience, pleasure is at least as difficult as > pain to accept with equanimity. Both of them activate the ego and its > selfishness, pain in an aversive sense and pleasure in an attractive, > attaching sense. But both create selfishness if we don't offer them to > God. Swamiji once said to me, "Pain is the lesson. Pleasure is the > exam," and this simple but very profound truth has guided me ever since. > > Kalibhakta > > > , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> wrote: > > Dear All, > > Again, sharing with you what I found on my travels on the web . I > > found this piece particularly interesting because it tells us how we > > can use our day to day challenges to purify ourselves. How we can > > accept instead of resisting pain and in the process get purified - I > > have applied this sometimes in my own life and do find the > > difference. Now it is only a matter of keeping this awareness all > > the time. I would be interested to know if others in the forum too > > can share any similar idea or experience . > > > > Jai Maa > > Latha > > > > ===================================================================== > > > > Many spiritual traditions involve the practice of asceticism, which > > means voluntarily taking on discomfort or deprivation. > > Properly understood, asceticism is done for spiritual purification, > > i.e. softening the substance of the solidified self. > > > > Pain multiplied by resistance equals suffering, but pain multiplied > > by acceptance equals cleansing. This tells us two important things. > > First, when pain is very intense, if you are able to maintain even a > > small degree of acceptance, then purification is still going on; > > that is, the pain is productive and meaningful. Second, even a small > > pain can bring significant purification if your attentiveness and > > equanimity are high. Thus, even though you may never do intense > > practices , you may attain comparably deep purification. This can be > > achieved by bringing an extraordinary amount of openness to the > > ordinary aches and discomforts of daily life. > > > > Once you clearly understand that pain multiplied by equanimity > > equals purification, you are able to make a "conceptual reframing" > > of the pain. You are able to sacramentalize it, to see it as a kind > > of imposed monastery or sacred ceremony. Seeing pain as a natural > > monastery or imposed retreat for spiritual growth is particularly > > significant for those in chronic pain. > > > > ================================================================ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> wrote: > Kalibhakta, you have that realization even now, as there is no > expectation of any particular sensation etc. attached to it ... > even intellectual knowledge is another angle of that same light. This is a beautiful thought, Steve--it's all Her light; we just see it at different angles (and sometimes choose less advantageous ones!) It reminds me of Brian's comment that "One of the most powerful realizations I made is simply that I cannot separate one thought from another and label one as bad and the other as good." Ma is really trying to teach me this right now...so I'm grateful for fellow students like ya'll and Master Teachers like Swamiji and Shree Maa. OM KALI MA Kalibhakta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 Kalibhakta it is all very interesting. as we go along we get more refined. like latha is indicating with the jewelry and all that. we are also staying in one place and other things seem to move, even our own qualities. that is one sense of, not differentiating from good and bad. there is one aspect of this where we are caught. we are getting refined. then there is a fancy idea of ourselves. another stuck place is quite primitive. bad thought! good thought! stuck in good vs. evil, a devil on my shoulder etc. i have found that the thoughts do need to be parsed, separated. what thoughts do i want? what do i indulge? where am i going? the chandi patah. i am not teacher of that to be sure. but here is what i see. we are contemplating this vision of a dual form that represents the unity. it is an expression of unity in duality, which is a paradox if i ever heard one. this contemplation "becomes us" so to say. we are seeing what is real. but what is real? we are envisioning a very benign expression of reality. one that is not in conflict with itself, but also smites asuras. very very strange. it is not possible to completely rationalize this, as it extends beyond the mental formations we use by convention. and yet it is practical and practicable. we become what we contemplate, from the inside out. a primitive error would be, i will get what i want this way. but there, there is no contemplation or becoming ... there is no transformation when that original want is held on to so tightly. the becoming happens as a consequence of the contemplation. this is why devotion is stressed. we are looking beyond, outside of ourselves, but also AT ourselves, at our divinity, our potential. this is why i asked swamiji, do we look from beyond membrane lenses? and, why nataraj is at the feet of nataraj. and, why you are swamiji and swamiji is you. this only occurs with a pure mind. maybe we are already pure, maybe we work on it. pranams pranams pranams. we are small like a bug. but the bug is huge to the gnat. all is relative. so we pray to the infinite. bliss is the juice, it is the consequence. advaita alone is remote and still. we are going into unity which is higher still. higher and higher until everything is seen and nothing is omitted or cast out. love to you Kalibhakta s , "kalibhakta" <dr_hampton@h...> wrote: > , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> wrote: > > Kalibhakta, you have that realization even now, as there is no > > expectation of any particular sensation etc. attached to it ... > > even intellectual knowledge is another angle of that same light. > > This is a beautiful thought, Steve--it's all Her light; we just see it > at different angles (and sometimes choose less advantageous ones!) > > It reminds me of Brian's comment that "One of the most powerful > realizations I made is simply that I cannot > separate one thought from another and label one as bad and the other > as good." > > Ma is really trying to teach me this right now...so I'm grateful for > fellow students like ya'll and Master Teachers like Swamiji and Shree Maa. > > OM KALI MA > > Kalibhakta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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