To Steve on value of words

[Guest guest]

Dear Steve,

 

I think I understand what Swami means by no value talking about

meditation. It is the old adage of the finger pointing at the moon is

not the moon. But you use words eloquently and often, and for myself,

being an artist and a musician, I have witnessed art and music

affecting people deeply, including myself. If words have no value, we

wouldn't be reading and chanting the many words of the Chandi, I

think, most respectfully to everyone. We are symbolic beings and

respond to symbol in the form of words, music, imagery. Think of Devi

Mandir and all the beautiful sculptures of the Goddess Maa has made.

They are made of humble materials, yet they transport us if we let

them, as we are transported via the Chandi.

 

Recently, I have felt moved to make art about Durga, based directly on

descriptions of Her in the Chandi. I think I will get on with it. I am

not begging to differ with either you or Swami. I am only saying that

I think his answer possibly applied just to your question and to the

finger pointing at the moon. Shanti ~ Linda

[Guest guest]

linda thank you ... thank you very much for your reflection ... it

does help, as i am not sure i understood him completely.

 

[i would love to see any art you do on Durga!]

 

steve

 

, nierika@a... wrote:

> Dear Steve,

>

> I think I understand what Swami means by no value talking about

meditation.

> It is the old adage of the finger pointing at the moon is not the

moon. But

> you use words eloquently and often, and for myself, being an

artist and a

> musician, I have witnessed art and music affecting people deeply,

including

> myself. If words have no value, we wouldn't be reading and

chanting the many words

> of the Chandi, I think, most respectfully to everyone. We are

symbolic beings

> and respond to symbol in the form of words, music, imagery. Think

of Devi

> Mandir and all the beautiful sculptures of the Goddess Maa has

made. They are

> made of humble materials, yet they transport us if we let them,

as we are

> transported via the Chandi.

>

> Recently, I have felt moved to make art about Durga, based

directly on

> descriptions of Her in the Chandi. I think I will get on with it.

I am not begging

> to differ with either you or Swami. I am only saying that I think

his answer

> possibly applied just to your question and to the finger pointing

at the

> moon. Shanti ~ Linda

[Guest guest]

Hi Steve,

 

You know, I have been "bothered" by this issue for some time, though I

haven't said anything. I understand what Swamiji is saying (I think),

but at the same time, I agree wholeheartedly with Linda.

 

The absolute Truth about spirituality is that is an experience.

Without experience, there is no spirituality, no matter how many words

you read, or write, or speak, or hear. However, words can be the means

by which experience is gained -- hence their value in spiritual life.

 

I think much of the value of words comes from their source. An

enlightened person, or a person in a moment of enlightenment, a pure

heart, can somehow sometimes communicate a portion of that

enlightenment, that purity, in her words. The words of an enlightened

person can inspire one to greater heights of pure knowledge, or to

greater efforts in sadhana.

 

I love to be inspired in either knowledge or effort by the words of an

inspired person. They are words expressive of their own direct

experience, and I can feel that.

 

Often, I find myself disappointed that Swamiji's answers are so short

-- limited in their scope. But I think that he really doesn't have the

time to devote to more elaborate answers, so he answers with that

morsel which, to him, seems most central to the issue, or to the

questioner. I would almost always like more, but that which he does

say often seems worthy of further contemplation.

 

As a final comment, I think there is nothing I like less than reading

the words of someone who lacks the foundation of direct experience,

whose words are all about what they know, about argument and dogma.

Certainly such words are useless in the sphere of spiritual life.

 

Chris

 

 

, "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> wrote:

> linda thank you ... thank you very much for your reflection ... it

> does help, as i am not sure i understood him completely.

>

> [i would love to see any art you do on Durga!]

>

> steve

>

> , nierika@a... wrote:

> > Dear Steve,

> >

> > I think I understand what Swami means by no value talking about

> meditation.

> > It is the old adage of the finger pointing at the moon is not the

> moon. But

> > you use words eloquently and often, and for myself, being an

> artist and a

> > musician, I have witnessed art and music affecting people deeply,

> including

> > myself. If words have no value, we wouldn't be reading and

> chanting the many words

> > of the Chandi, I think, most respectfully to everyone. We are

> symbolic beings

> > and respond to symbol in the form of words, music, imagery. Think

> of Devi

> > Mandir and all the beautiful sculptures of the Goddess Maa has

> made. They are

> > made of humble materials, yet they transport us if we let them,

> as we are

> > transported via the Chandi.

> >

> > Recently, I have felt moved to make art about Durga, based

> directly on

> > descriptions of Her in the Chandi. I think I will get on with it.

> I am not begging

> > to differ with either you or Swami. I am only saying that I think

> his answer

> > possibly applied just to your question and to the finger pointing

> at the

> > moon. Shanti ~ Linda

[Guest guest]

"...Often, I find myself disappointed that Swamiji's answers are so

short

-- limited in their scope. But I think that he really doesn't have

the

time to devote to more elaborate answers, so he answers with that

morsel which, to him, seems most central to the issue, or to the

questioner. I would almost always like more, but that which he does

say often seems worthy of further contemplation....Chris"

 

Dear Chris,

 

Lately, I have been seeing Swamiji's words as being alot like

koans in zen tradition. As you say, he presents the essence but it

requires contemplation to "take it in" fully. In my experience, this

seems to be the way people who have gone beyond my own level of

awareness seem to communicate (not that there is ANYTHING "wrong"

with words). Maybe when you get to that level of the Visuddha Chakra

being fully open, you use language in a "fuller" but seemingly less

complicated way. Your words carry a truth in them that is alive...I

am thinking too, of the songs and poetry of great saints...and how,

if you are chanting or reciting them, they can literally lift you

into a higher state. I remember reading that when the Vishuddha

Chakra opens, then Saraswati Devi dances on the tip of your

tongue...and I always thought..."Oh, great!" and had some idea of a

Hindu Dylan Thomas,with waves of words streaming forth...but

Saraswati Devi is the goddess of illumination and knowledge so maybe

the dance is kind of different from wht I had imagined.

 

sadhvi

PS...thanks to all for your satsang posts. Although I couldn't

particpate in the satsangs during the retreat, I LOVED being part of

the retreat...best love to everyone and thanks again.

[Guest guest]

I like that Chris says Swamiji always leaves him coming back for

more. Sounds healthy.

I wanted to share a tale about Dakshinamoorthi, The South-faced One.

Four Siddhas, accomplished, learned sages who had really mastered

the teachings, still found themselves on this side of the fence.

They decided to visit the venerable Dakshinamoorthi. [Please note

that, as far as I know, Dashinamoorthi is usually pictured sitting

up with his right leg crossed over his left and with his right hand

raised in chin mudra - but we'll be coming to that in a moment.. It

is said that Ramana Maharshi demonstrated Dashinamoorthi and that

pictures of Ramana Maharshi are often of him sitting as

Dashinamoorthi.] Now these were truly great pundits and devoted

siddhas. They came to Dakshinmoorthi and sat at his feet awaiting

his answer after they asked him to help them learn, do, get whatever

they needed to make the final leap. He sat there quietly (oh,

Dakshinamoorthi always taught in silence) and then raised his right

hand in chin mudra (the hand raised with fingers up and the index

finger bent down to meet the thumb). All four of them recieved the

bit they needed and were immediately realized in the Oneness.

So it isn't lots of words always that helps. It's getting just what

we need right now.

Chin Mudra is a wonderful teaching in itself. The thumb outstanding

representing the Divine and the index finger representing our ego

bending in humility to attach to the thumb.

Though Swamiji's responses are terse they are always inspiring and

helpful. Meanwhile he certainly is not adverse to sharing his words

with us. How many books has he put out? How many hours of teaching

on how many subjects are readily available to us on-line through the

website? Lots and lots.

There's more there than I can get to over years. And even then, I

know it is more important to make note of the teachings that I find

brought before me at this time in my life, learn to live those

teachings before I move on to studying a lot more.

Perhaps I need to learn terseness from Swamiji.

much love,

jayadeva