Q&A with Swamiji .....141...Tantroktam Ratri Suktam

[Guest guest]

Question from Jayadeva:

 

The verse 14 of Tantroktam Ratri Suktam - " Cause the ignorance of

egotism to fall upon those two thoughts so difficult to understand,

Too Much & Too Little." , Is this so that they are open to getting

fooled into defeat? Can you please comments on this ?

 

Swamiji's response :

 

Definitely. When we succumb to egotism, we act from ignorance, and

invariably we make mistakes

[Guest guest]

Latha,

 

Could you ask Swamiji to revisit this question for me?

 

I have been waiting for his answer since the class. I do not

understand this statement at all.

 

 

Causing the ignorance of egotism to fall on these thoughts (too much

and too little) seems to me to be nonsensical.

 

Are not Too Much and Too Little already a product of the ignorance of

egotism?

If they are not, do they stem from higher awareness? (I cannot

see how this can be so).

 

If Too Much and Too Little are already the product of the ignorance of

egotism, how does making them even more egotistical, more "me" (I'm

assuming I'm still bound by egotism) help destroy them? How does it do

anything but make "my" perceptions more clouded?

 

Any light you can shed on these questions will be appreciated.

 

Chris

 

 

 

, "Latha Nanda" <lathananda> wrote:

> Question from Jayadeva:

>

> The verse 14 of Tantroktam Ratri Suktam - " Cause the ignorance of

> egotism to fall upon those two thoughts so difficult to understand,

> Too Much & Too Little." , Is this so that they are open to getting

> fooled into defeat? Can you please comments on this ?

>

> Swamiji's response :

>

> Definitely. When we succumb to egotism, we act from ignorance, and

> invariably we make mistakes

[Guest guest]

Yes, it would be interesting to hear Swami Ji's answer. This is a good question.

This is just my humble idea of what the verse means, although I've

never heard Maa and Swami's teaching on it. Brahma prayed to the

Divine Mother that the ignorance of egotism fall on these two asuras,

so they would be defeated by Vishnu. It worked, because in their

outrageous egotism, they actually asked God to choose of them a boon

- an incredibly egotistical attitude for one to have toward God.

Vishnu choose the boon that the two asuras, too much and too little,

be slain by Him immedeately. Thus deluded, they were trapped and

Vishnu killed them with the Discus of revolving time.

Jai Maa, and Jai Vishnu!!!

NirmalChris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > wrote:

Latha,Could you ask Swamiji to revisit this question for me?I have

been waiting for his answer since the class. I do notunderstand this

statement at all. Causing the ignorance of egotism to fall on these

thoughts (too muchand too little) seems to me to be nonsensical.Are

not Too Much and Too Little already a product of the ignorance

ofegotism? If they are not, do they stem from higher awareness?

(I cannot see how this can be so).If Too Much and

Too Little are already the product of the ignorance ofegotism, how

does making them even more egotistical, more "me" (I'massuming I'm

still bound by egotism) help destroy them? How does it doanything but

make "my"

perceptions more clouded?Any light you can shed on these questions

will be appreciated.Chris, "Latha

Nanda" <lathananda> wrote:> Question from Jayadeva:> > The verse

14 of Tantroktam Ratri Suktam - " Cause the ignorance of > egotism to

fall upon those two thoughts so difficult to understand, > Too Much &

Too Little." , Is this so that they are open to getting > fooled into

defeat? Can you please comments on this ? > > Swamiji's response :> >

Definitely. When we succumb to egotism, we act from ignorance, and >

invariably we make mistakes

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[Guest guest]

Nirmal,

 

Thanks for the very nice reply.

 

I still do not quite get it... but perhaps I am a little closer. The

Chandi is so allegorical sometimes it's hard to see the practical

nature of the drama. Perhaps it is just that, the use of drama as a

vehicle, that has created the apparent contradiction in my vision.

 

It has been mentioned before that the discus of revolving time likely

refers to the unfolding process of sadhana, and specifically related

to Vishnu, expanding consciousness. That expanding consciousness

destroys the tendencies of too much and too little in the ego, and

that this is accomplished by grace through the efforts of practice

over time, is easy to understand. But it is not very dramatic.

 

Perhaps the whole boon scenario was adopted to illustrate just how

greatly these two aspects of the unpurified ego are embedded in egotism.

 

Even so, if this is the only reason, then why include a special

prayer, in a beautifully devotional section, referring to the

specifics of a dramatic instrument? Why not simply pray for the

destruction of Too Much and Too Little?

 

If you are suggesting that it is an increase in their egotism that

allows their destruction, we are back to my original question, I

think. If Too Much and Too Little are already founded in egotism, why

ask for more? Doesn't that just confuse "me" further? If I am already

doing sadhana, how does this help? ........Or........

 

Does this scenario refer back to the beginning of the path, the

initial impulses toward spiritual practice (so much of the Chandi Path

appears to be parallel and interwoven, despite being treated, often,

sequentially and separately), when it is the excesses of egotism (and

the resulting pain and alienation) that finally bring us to the feet

of God?

 

Chris

 

 

 

, Nirmalananda Saraswati

<nirmalananda1008> wrote:

> Namaste All,

>

> Yes, it would be interesting to hear Swami Ji's answer. This is a

good question.

>

> This is just my humble idea of what the verse means, although I've

never heard Maa and Swami's teaching on it. Brahma prayed to the

Divine Mother that the ignorance of egotism fall on these two asuras,

so they would be defeated by Vishnu. It worked, because in their

outrageous egotism, they actually asked God to choose of them a boon -

an incredibly egotistical attitude for one to have toward God. Vishnu

choose the boon that the two asuras, too much and too little, be slain

by Him immedeately. Thus deluded, they were trapped and Vishnu killed

them with the Discus of revolving time.

>

> Jai Maa, and Jai Vishnu!!!

>

> Nirmal

>

> Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956> wrote:

> Latha,

>

> Could you ask Swamiji to revisit this question for me?

>

> I have been waiting for his answer since the class. I do not

> understand this statement at all.

>

>

> Causing the ignorance of egotism to fall on these thoughts (too much

> and too little) seems to me to be nonsensical.

>

> Are not Too Much and Too Little already a product of the ignorance of

> egotism?

> If they are not, do they stem from higher awareness? (I cannot

> see how this can be so).

>

> If Too Much and Too Little are already the product of the ignorance of

> egotism, how does making them even more egotistical, more "me" (I'm

> assuming I'm still bound by egotism) help destroy them? How does it do

> anything but make "my" perceptions more clouded?

>

> Any light you can shed on these questions will be appreciated.

>

> Chris

>

>

>

> , "Latha Nanda" <lathananda>

wrote:

> > Question from Jayadeva:

> >

> > The verse 14 of Tantroktam Ratri Suktam - " Cause the ignorance of

> > egotism to fall upon those two thoughts so difficult to understand,

> > Too Much & Too Little." , Is this so that they are open to getting

> > fooled into defeat? Can you please comments on this ?

> >

> > Swamiji's response :

> >

> > Definitely. When we succumb to egotism, we act from ignorance, and

> > invariably we make mistakes

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

You raise an interesting point. Why ask for more ego to increase the

already strong ego of Too much and Too little. When only looking at

the story itself, the increased ego led the asuras to their

destruction, because they blundered into thier own trap. But the

deeper view, which is to apply the story to our own inner sadhana is

more complex because Too much and Too little are in us, so why would

we want them to become more powerful.

This is getting over my head and it's probably a question for Swami

Ji. But one thing that seems to happen quite often, is that Mother

slays our ego tendencies by allowing us to make fools of ourselves,

and then get cut down. When that happens, it's a very "ego busting"

experience. It happens to me over and over (he he).

As one teacher put it;

Question. Why are the people who worship Kali always bowing?

Kali's answer. They're ducking.Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > wrote:

Nirmal,Thanks for the very nice reply.I still do not quite get it...

but perhaps I am a little closer. TheChandi is so allegorical

sometimes it's hard to see the practicalnature of the drama. Perhaps

it is just that, the use of drama as avehicle, that has created the

apparent contradiction in my vision.It has been mentioned before that

the discus of revolving time likelyrefers to the unfolding process of

sadhana, and specifically relatedto Vishnu, expanding consciousness.

That expanding consciousnessdestroys the tendencies of too much and

too little in the ego, andthat this is accomplished by grace through

the efforts of practiceover time, is easy to understand. But it is

not very dramatic.Perhaps the whole boon scenario was adopted to

illustrate just howgreatly these two aspects of the unpurified ego

are embedded

in egotism.Even so, if this is the only reason, then why include a

specialprayer, in a beautifully devotional section, referring to

thespecifics of a dramatic instrument? Why not simply pray for

thedestruction of Too Much and Too Little?If you are suggesting that

it is an increase in their egotism thatallows their destruction, we

are back to my original question, Ithink. If Too Much and Too Little

are already founded in egotism, whyask for more? Doesn't that just

confuse "me" further? If I am alreadydoing sadhana, how does this

help? ........Or........Does this scenario refer back to the

beginning of the path, theinitial impulses toward spiritual practice

(so much of the Chandi Pathappears to be parallel and interwoven,

despite being treated, often,sequentially and separately), when it is

the excesses of egotism (andthe resulting pain and alienation) that

finally bring us to the feetof

God?Chris, Nirmalananda

Saraswati<nirmalananda1008> wrote:> Namaste All,> > Yes, it

would be interesting to hear Swami Ji's answer. This is agood

question. > > This is just my humble idea of what the verse means,

although I'venever heard Maa and Swami's teaching on it. Brahma

prayed to theDivine Mother that the ignorance of egotism fall on

these two asuras,so they would be defeated by Vishnu. It worked,

because in theiroutrageous egotism, they actually asked God to choose

of them a boon -an incredibly egotistical attitude for one to have

toward God. Vishnuchoose the boon that the two asuras, too much and

too little, be slainby Him immedeately. Thus deluded, they were

trapped and Vishnu killedthem with the Discus of revolving time.> >

Jai Maa, and Jai Vishnu!!!> > Nirmal> >

Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956> wrote:> Latha,> > Could you ask

Swamiji to revisit this question for me?> > I have been waiting for

his answer since the class. I do not> understand this statement at

all. > > > Causing the ignorance of egotism to fall on these thoughts

(too much> and too little) seems to me to be nonsensical.> > Are not

Too Much and Too Little already a product of the ignorance of>

egotism?> If they are not, do they stem from higher awareness?

(I cannot> see how this can be so).> > If Too Much

and Too Little are already the product of the ignorance of> egotism,

how does making them even more egotistical, more "me" (I'm> assuming

I'm still bound by egotism) help

destroy them? How does it do> anything but make "my" perceptions more

clouded?> > Any light you can shed on these questions will be

appreciated.> > Chris> > > > ,

"Latha Nanda" <lathananda>wrote:> > Question from Jayadeva:> > >

> The verse 14 of Tantroktam Ratri Suktam - " Cause the ignorance of >

> egotism to fall upon those two thoughts so difficult to understand,

> > Too Much & Too Little." , Is this so that they are open to

getting > > fooled into defeat? Can you please comments on this ? > >

> > Swamiji's response :> > > > Definitely. When we succumb to

egotism, we act from ignorance, and > > invariably we make mistakes>

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