LOL!

[Guest guest]

Namaste ALL esp Nirmal,

Thank you for the biggest out loud in-front-of-computer screen chuckle

I have ever had! The last line of your post did me in. Something

Linda said in a post makes me think that sometimes "laughter is not

only the best medicine" but also the most devout prayer! Amen and Om

to Ma Kali!!

Namaste,

Karen

-

Nirmalananda Saraswati

Friday, September 10, 2004 1:38 PM

Re: Re: Q&A with Swamiji .....141...Tantroktam Ratri Suktam

Hi Chris,

You raise an interesting point. Why ask for more ego to increase the

already strong ego of Too much and Too little. When only looking at

the story itself, the increased ego led the asuras to their

destruction, because they blundered into thier own trap. But the

deeper view, which is to apply the story to our own inner sadhana is

more complex because Too much and Too little are in us, so why would

we want them to become more powerful.

This is getting over my head and it's probably a question for Swami

Ji. But one thing that seems to happen quite often, is that Mother

slays our ego tendencies by allowing us to make fools of ourselves,

and then get cut down. When that happens, it's a very "ego busting"

experience. It happens to me over and over (he he).

As one teacher put it;

Question. Why are the people who worship Kali always bowing?

Kali's answer. They're ducking.Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > wrote:

Nirmal,Thanks for the very nice reply.I still do not quite get it...

but perhaps I am a little closer. TheChandi is so allegorical

sometimes it's hard to see the practicalnature of the drama. Perhaps

it is just that, the use of drama as avehicle, that has created the

apparent contradiction in my vision.It has been mentioned before that

the discus of revolving time likelyrefers to the unfolding process of

sadhana, and specifically relatedto Vishnu, expanding consciousness.

That expanding consciousnessdestroys the tendencies of too much and

too little in the ego, andthat this is accomplished by grace through

the efforts of practiceover time, is easy to understand. But it is

not very dramatic.Perhaps the whole boon scenario was adopted to

illustrate just howgreatly these two aspects of the unpurified ego

are embedded in egotism.Even so, if this is the only reason, then why

include a specialprayer, in a beautifully devotional section,

referring to thespecifics of a dramatic instrument? Why not simply

pray for thedestruction of Too Much and Too Little?If you are

suggesting that it is an increase in their egotism thatallows their

destruction, we are back to my original question, Ithink. If Too Much

and Too Little are already founded in egotism, whyask for more?

Doesn't that just confuse "me" further? If I am alreadydoing sadhana,

how does this help? ........Or........Does this scenario refer back to

the beginning of the path, theinitial impulses toward spiritual

practice (so much of the Chandi Pathappears to be parallel and

interwoven, despite being treated, often,sequentially and

separately), when it is the excesses of egotism (andthe resulting

pain and alienation) that finally bring us to the feetof God?Chris---

In , Nirmalananda

Saraswati<nirmalananda1008> wrote:> Namaste All,> > Yes, it

would be interesting to hear Swami Ji's answer. This is agood

question. > > This is just my humble idea of what the verse means,

although I'venever heard Maa and Swami's teaching on it. Brahma

prayed to theDivine Mother that the ignorance of egotism fall on

these two asuras,so they would be defeated by Vishnu. It worked,

because in theiroutrageous egotism, they actually asked God to choose

of them a boon -an incredibly egotistical attitude for one to have

toward God. Vishnuchoose the boon that the two asuras, too much and

too little, be slainby Him immedeately. Thus deluded, they were

trapped and Vishnu killedthem with the Discus of revolving time.> >

Jai Maa, and Jai Vishnu!!!> > Nirmal> > Chris Kirner

<chriskirner1956> wrote:> Latha,> > Could you ask Swamiji to

revisit this question for me?> > I have been waiting for his answer

since the class. I do not> understand this statement at all. > > >

Causing the ignorance of egotism to fall on these thoughts (too much>

and too little) seems to me to be nonsensical.> > Are not Too Much and

Too Little already a product of the ignorance of> egotism?> If

they are not, do they stem from higher awareness? (I cannot>

see how this can be so).> > If Too Much and Too Little are

already the product of the ignorance of> egotism, how does making

them even more egotistical, more "me" (I'm> assuming I'm still bound

by egotism) help destroy them? How does it do> anything but make "my"

perceptions more clouded?> > Any light you can shed on these questions

will be appreciated.> > Chris> > > > --- In

, "Latha Nanda" <lathananda>wrote:> >

Question from Jayadeva:> > > > The verse 14 of Tantroktam Ratri Suktam

- " Cause the ignorance of > > egotism to fall upon those two thoughts

so difficult to understand, > > Too Much & Too Little." , Is this so

that they are open to getting > > fooled into defeat? Can you please

comments on this ? > > > > Swamiji's response :> > > > Definitely.

When we succumb to egotism, we act from ignorance, and > > invariably

we make mistakes> > > > Sponsor> > >

> Links> > To visit

your group on the web, go to:>

/> > To

from this group, send an email to:>

> > Your use of

Groups is subject to the > > > >

> > Shop for

Back-to-School deals on Shopping.

[Guest guest]

In my experience, the ego had to be ruler of the three worlds before he could

get the Gods' attention.

 

Each of the demons must be powerful and formidable to make it onto the radar

screen of consciousness.

 

And the more powerful a demon is, the more powerful a God needs to be to destroy

him.

 

Otherwise there would be no battle, no defeat, and no victory party!

 

What we view as terrible and aweful negative attachments, habits, and tendencies

are just mother's mortar fodder.

 

I think I'd like a T-Shirt that says, "This Body and its contents are Mother's

Mortar Fodder."

 

This is a lovely conversation. I'm priviledge to take part.

 

Brian

 

 

"In the begining, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very

angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch

Hikers Guide to the Galaxy Radio Program.

 

--- On Fri 09/10, Karen Borak < karenborak > wrote:

Karen Borak [ karenborak]

</DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, September 10,

2004 1:38

PM</DIV>

<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Re:

Q&A

with Swamiji .....141...Tantroktam Ratri Suktam</DIV>

<DIV><BR></DIV>

<DIV>Hi Chris,</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>You raise an interesting point. Why ask for more ego to increase the

already strong ego of Too much and Too little. When only looking at the story

itself, the increased ego led the asuras to their destruction, because they

blundered into thier own trap. But the deeper view, which is to apply the

story to our own inner sadhana is more complex because Too much and Too little

are in us, so why would we want them to become more powerful. </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>This is getting over my head and it's probably a question for Swami Ji.

But one thing that seems to happen quite often, is that Mother slays our ego

tendencies by allowing us to make fools of ourselves, and then get cut down.

When that happens, it's a very "ego busting" experience. It happens to me over

and over (he he).</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>As one teacher put it;</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>Question. Why are the people who worship Kali always bowing?</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>Kali's answer. They're ducking.<BR><BR><B><I>Chris Kirner

<chriskirner1956</I></B> wrote:</DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq

style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px

solid"><TT>Nirmal,<BR><BR>Thanks

for the very nice reply.<BR><BR>I still do not quite get it... but perhaps I

am a little closer. The<BR>Chandi is so allegorical sometimes it's hard to

see the practical<BR>nature of the drama. Perhaps it is just that, the use

of drama as a<BR>vehicle, that has created the apparent contradiction in my

vision.<BR><BR>It has been mentioned before that the discus of revolving

time likely<BR>refers to the unfolding process of sadhana, and specifically

related<BR>to Vishnu, expanding consciousness. That expanding

consciousness<BR>destroys the tendencies of too much and too little in the

ego, and<BR>that this is accomplished by grace through the efforts of

practice<BR>over time, is easy to understand. But it is not very

dramatic.<BR><BR>Perhaps the whole boon scenario was adopted to illustrate

just how<BR>greatly these two aspects of the unpurified ego are embedded in

egotism.<BR><BR>Even so, if this is the only reason, then why include a

special<BR>prayer, in a beautifully devotional section, referring to

the<BR>specifics of a dramatic instrument? Why not simply pray for

the<BR>destruction of Too Much and Too Little?<BR><BR>If you are suggesting

that it is an increase in their egotism that<BR>allows their destruction, we

are back to my original question, I<BR>think. If Too Much and Too Little are

already founded in egotism, why<BR>ask for more? Doesn't that just confuse

"me" further? If I am already<BR>doing sadhana, how does this help?

........Or........<BR><BR>Does this scenario refer back to the beginning of

the path, the<BR>initial impulses toward spiritual practice (so much of the

Chandi Path<BR>appears to be parallel and interwoven, despite being treated,

often,<BR>sequentially and separately), when it is the excesses of egotism

(and<BR>the resulting pain and alienation) that finally bring us to the

feet<BR>of God?<BR><BR>Chris<BR><BR><BR><BR>--- In

, Nirmalananda

Saraswati<BR><nirmalananda1008> wrote:<BR>> Namaste

All,<BR>> <BR>> Yes, it would be interesting to hear Swami Ji's

answer. This is a<BR>good question. <BR>> <BR>> This is just my

humble idea of what the verse means, although I've<BR>never heard Maa and

Swami's teaching on it. Brahma prayed to the<BR>Divine Mother that the

ignorance of egotism fall on these two asuras,<BR>so they would be defeated

by Vishnu. It worked, because in their<BR>outrageous egotism, they actually

asked God to choose of them a boon -<BR>an incredibly egotistical attitude

for one to have toward God. Vishnu<BR>choose the boon that the two asuras,

too much and too little, be slain<BR>by Him immedeately. Thus deluded, they

were trapped and Vishnu killed<BR>them with the Discus of revolving

time.<BR>> <BR>> Jai Maa, and Jai Vishnu!!!<BR>>

<BR>> Nirmal<BR>> <BR>> Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956>

wrote:<BR>> Latha,<BR>> <BR>> Could you ask Swamiji to revisit this

question for me?<BR>> <BR>> I have been waiting for his answer since

the class. I do not<BR>> understand this statement at all. <BR>>

<BR>> <BR>> Causing the ignorance of egotism to fall on these thoughts

(too much<BR>> and too little) seems to me to be nonsensical.<BR>>

<BR>> Are not Too Much and Too Little already a product of the ignorance

of<BR>> egotism?<BR>> If

they are not, do they stem from higher awareness? (I

cannot<BR>>

see how this can be so).<BR>> <BR>> If Too Much and Too Little are

already the product of the ignorance of<BR>> egotism, how does making

them even more egotistical, more "me" (I'm<BR>> assuming I'm still bound

by egotism) help destroy them? How does it do<BR>> anything but make "my"

perceptions more clouded?<BR>> <BR>> Any light you can shed on these

questions will be appreciated.<BR>> <BR>> Chris<BR>> <BR>>

<BR>> <BR>> </ul>

</tt>

</br>

 

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