Guest guest Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 Preface: please excuse me if this gets posted twice, but I got back a "Mailer Daemon" right after I sent it. Ha! That must mean something. Rudran wrote: All those evils have been a part of us, but hereon as our recitations transport us to a better condition. Dear group, Wow! How uncomfortabe all this talk of evil has made me. I left the church I grew up in because it was so black and white, and I believed I was damned from the beginning, just for being born, just for being a woman ... beyond my redemption. When I got more able to think for myself, I felt a religion that uses fear to illicit "good" behavior doesn't really make sense. If you are good out of fear, then the goodness has no meaning. The first chink in my armor or fear was a book I found called The Wisdom of China and India. I found nothing about evil there ... in these ancient Vedic texts. I found confusion, misunderstanding discussed, but not evil. The next chink was reading Paramahansa Yogananda's autobiography, and I just continued from there. Even in reading the Chandi, I have not seen these negative thoughts as evil, and if they are so named somewhere, I must have missed it. To me, they are very ordinary mundane, but persistent delusions (Too Much and Too Little; Self Deprecation and Self Conceit) that keep us from being closer to God and to our real selves. Even after these thoughts are slain, the Mother lifts them up to Heaven. In my youth I had a metaphysics instructor at a college I went to. She said I was always standing over myself with a big stick, which was true. I had learned to be my own thought police, and I cringed in terror waiting for the next negative thought to pop out. She said I had to put that stick down and realize that there is no evil, only confusion and misunderstanding. It took many years and much struggle to put that stick down, and the hardest one of all was my own Self Deprecation. It reminds me of a story I heard about Ramana Maharshi. He was lying in a small room in his ashram when two thieves entered. Because he had nothing for them to steal, one of them grabbed up his cane and hit him on the leg with it. Smilingly, Ramana offered the other leg. In ragged confusion the thieves fled. Is this not what our own negativities do when we shine the light of true understanding on them, of true perception, of true essence? And if all is Mother, how can anything be truly evil? I will be interested to see what others think about this. Jai Maa ~ Linda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 Namaste ALL esp Linda, Even the very word "evil" send shivers up my spine. I agree with what you wrote. Every word. Until recently, I found myself collecting parts of a lot of religions and spiritual beliefs. However, since Shree Maa and Swamiji entered center stage, I am very interested in understanding Hinduism. No surprise there. The shocker for me is my sudden interest in my Christian background. We all know the truth is everywhere. Ramakrishna himself studied religions and found value in all of them. I am wondering if, for me, I won't make real headway in Hinduism until I find meaning in my Christian background. This is so confusing to me! This confusion began with learning about respecting our ancestors and paying homage to them from something that Devi Mandir sent out in an email message (that was before the birth of the ). I feel that I am beginning to learn to love my heritage. Hinduism is leading me back to Christianity and Christianity is leading me forward to Hinduism. A slowly moving spiral. For me. Namaste, Karen - nierika (AT) aol (DOT) com Sunday, September 12, 2004 6:45 AM Re: On Evil Dear group, Wow! How uncomfortabe all this talk of evil has made me. I left the church I grew up in because it was so black and white, and I believed I was damned from the beginning, just for being born, just for being a woman ... beyond my redemption. When I got more able to think for myself, I felt a religion that uses fear to illicit "good" behavior doesn't really make sense. If you are good out of fear, then the goodness has no meaning. The first chink in my armor or fear was a book I found called The Wisdom of China and India. I found nothing about evil there ... in these ancient Vedic texts. I found confusion, misunderstanding discussed, but not evil. The next chink was reading Paramahansa Yogananda's autobiography, and I just continued from there. Even in reading the Chandi, I have not seen these negative thoughts as evil, and if they are so named somewhere, I must have missed it. To me, they are very ordinary mundane, but persistent delusions (Too Much and Too Little; Self Deprecation and Self Conceit) that keep us from being closer to God and to our real selves. Even after these thoughts are slain, the Mother lifts them up to Heaven. In my youth I had a metaphysics instructor at a college I went to. She said I was always standing over myself with a big stick, which was true. I had learned to be my own thought police, and I cringed in terror waiting for the next negative thought to pop out. She said I had to put that stick down and realize that there is no evil, only confusion and misunderstanding. It took many years and much struggle to put that stick down, and the hardest one of all was my own Self Deprecation. It reminds me of a story I heard about Ramana Maharshi. He was lying in a small room in his ashram when two thieves entered. Because he had nothing for them to steal, one of them grabbed up his cane and hit him on the leg with it. Smilingly, Ramana offered the other leg. In ragged confusion the thieves fled. Is this not what our own negativities do when we shine the light of true understanding on them, of true perception, of true essence? And if all is Mother, how can anything be truly evil? I will be interested to see what others think about this. Jai Maa ~ Linda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 Dear Karen and Linda, I agree with you both concerning the emphasis on evil in Christianity. But I also agree with you Karen about finding value in our Christian upbringing. Oh, to truly understand Jesus! Ramakrishna had a picture of Christ on his wall and bowed to it every evening. We are all One. The Truth of all religions are One. We can celebrate our Oneness and the Oneness of Truth. Jai Maa! I keep on finding Truth everywhere! Ardis "Karen Borak" <karenborak (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> Sun, 12 Sep 2004 08:47:35 -0600 <> Re: Re: On Evil Namaste ALL esp Linda, Even the very word "evil" send shivers up my spine. I agree with what you wrote. Every word. Until recently, I found myself collecting parts of a lot of religions and spiritual beliefs. However, since Shree Maa and Swamiji entered center stage, I am very interested in understanding Hinduism. No surprise there. The shocker for me is my sudden interest in my Christian background. We all know the truth is everywhere. Ramakrishna himself studied religions and found value in all of them. I am wondering if, for me, I won't make real headway in Hinduism until I find meaning in my Christian background. This is so confusing to me! This confusion began with learning about respecting our ancestors and paying homage to them from something that Devi Mandir sent out in an email message (that was before the birth of the ). I feel that I am beginning to learn to love my heritage. Hinduism is leading me back to Christianity and Christianity is leading me forward to Hinduism. A slowly moving spiral. For me. Namaste, Karen - nierika (AT) aol (DOT) com Sunday, September 12, 2004 6:45 AM Re: On Evil Dear group, Wow! How uncomfortabe all this talk of evil has made me. I left the church I grew up in because it was so black and white, and I believed I was damned from the beginning, just for being born, just for being a woman ... beyond my redemption. When I got more able to think for myself, I felt a religion that uses fear to illicit "good" behavior doesn't really make sense. If you are good out of fear, then the goodness has no meaning. The first chink in my armor or fear was a book I found called The Wisdom of China and India. I found nothing about evil there ... in these ancient Vedic texts. I found confusion, misunderstanding discussed, but not evil. The next chink was reading Paramahansa Yogananda's autobiography, and I just continued from there. Even in reading the Chandi, I have not seen these negative thoughts as evil, and if they are so named somewhere, I must have missed it. To me, they are very ordinary mundane, but persistent delusions (Too Much and Too Little; Self Deprecation and Self Conceit) that keep us from being closer to God and to our real selves. Even after these thoughts are slain, the Mother lifts them up to Heaven. In my youth I had a metaphysics instructor at a college I went to. She said I was always standing over myself with a big stick, which was true. I had learned to be my own thought police, and I cringed in terror waiting for the next negative thought to pop out. She said I had to put that stick down and realize that there is no evil, only confusion and misunderstanding. It took many years and much struggle to put that stick down, and the hardest one of all was my own Self Deprecation. It reminds me of a story I heard about Ramana Maharshi. He was lying in a small room in his ashram when two thieves entered. Because he had nothing for them to steal, one of them grabbed up his cane and hit him on the leg with it. Smilingly, Ramana offered the other leg. In ragged confusion the thieves fled. Is this not what our own negativities do when we shine the light of true understanding on them, of true perception, of true essence? And if all is Mother, how can anything be truly evil? I will be interested to see what others think about this. Jai Maa ~ Linda Sponsor / <?subject=Un> Terms of Service <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 Karen (and all)-- I'm glad to hear you say "I am wondering if, for me, I won't make real headway in Hinduism until I find meaning in my Christian background." I think many of us go through this. When I started to get seriously devoted to Kali, She dealt with me along similar lines. I was confused and thought I'd ascended to some "higher" truth--in truth I was just high on bhakti. At one point I found myself on my knees in a cathedral, before a statue of Mary (oddly, dressed in red), with Ma telling me "how dare you think you have 'the' answer, when the people you see around you in this church love Me more than you do." I know what you mean when you write "Hinduism is leading me back to Christianity and Christianity is leading me forward to Hinduism." Since I've been in love with Kali, She has led me to more inspired Christian writings than I ever knew existed when I was formally a Christian. I started to worry--"Ma, you're not sending me away from You--are You??" I was not mindful of the Spiral--of the fact that She is the path, the trajectory, the means, the goal. But the point is, as you say, just look at Ramakrishna: he saw and loved God in the form of a prostitute, in the form of a cat, in the form of white cranes flying in a cloudy sky. He realized God in Christianity, in Islam, in Vaishnavism, in Shaktism, through vamachara, through dakshinachara, and through Advaita. Mother wants us to "break on through to the other side" and saints like Ramakrishna come to show us that the means of breaking through are everywhere. ok--that's enough. I hope I don't get started on the question of evil b/c I'll probably never shut up... Kalibhakta , "Karen Borak" <karenborak@e...> wrote: > Namaste ALL esp Linda, > > Even the very word "evil" send shivers up my spine. I agree with what you wrote. Every word. Until recently, I found myself collecting parts of a lot of religions and spiritual beliefs. However, since Shree Maa and Swamiji entered center stage, I am very interested in understanding Hinduism. No surprise there. The shocker for me is my sudden interest in my Christian background. We all know the truth is everywhere. Ramakrishna himself studied religions and found value in all of them. I am wondering if, for me, I won't make real headway in Hinduism until I find meaning in my Christian background. This is so confusing to me! This confusion began with learning about respecting our ancestors and paying homage to them from something that Devi Mandir sent out in an email message (that was before the birth of the ). I feel that I am beginning to learn to love my heritage. Hinduism is leading me back to Christianity and Christianity is leading me forward to Hinduism. A slowly moving spiral. For me. > > Namaste, > Karen > - > nierika@a... > > Sunday, September 12, 2004 6:45 AM > Re: On Evil > > > Dear group, > > Wow! How uncomfortabe all this talk of evil has made me. I left the church I grew up in because it was so black and white, and I believed I was damned from the beginning, just for being born, just for being a woman ... beyond my redemption. When I got more able to think for myself, I felt a religion that uses fear to illicit "good" behavior doesn't really make sense. If you are good out of fear, then the goodness has no meaning. > > The first chink in my armor or fear was a book I found called The Wisdom of China and India. I found nothing about evil there ... in these ancient Vedic texts. I found confusion, misunderstanding discussed, but not evil. The next chink was reading Paramahansa Yogananda's autobiography, and I just continued from there. Even in reading the Chandi, I have not seen these negative thoughts as evil, and if they are so named somewhere, I must have missed it. To me, they are very ordinary mundane, but persistent delusions (Too Much and Too Little; Self Deprecation and Self Conceit) that keep us from being closer to God and to our real selves. Even after these thoughts are slain, the Mother lifts them up to Heaven. > > In my youth I had a metaphysics instructor at a college I went to. She said I was always standing over myself with a big stick, which was true. I had learned to be my own thought police, and I cringed in terror waiting for the next negative thought to pop out. She said I had to put that stick down and realize that there is no evil, only confusion and misunderstanding. > > It took many years and much struggle to put that stick down, and the hardest one of all was my own Self Deprecation. It reminds me of a story I heard about Ramana Maharshi. He was lying in a small room in his ashram when two thieves entered. Because he had nothing for them to steal, one of them grabbed up his cane and hit him on the leg with it. Smilingly, Ramana offered the other leg. In ragged confusion the thieves fled. Is this not what our own negativities do when we shine the light of true understanding on them, of true perception, of true essence? And if all is Mother, how can anything be truly evil? I will be interested to see what others think about this. Jai Maa ~ Linda > > Sponsor > > Get unlimited calls to > > U.S./Canada > > > > > > Links > > > / > > b.. > > > c.. Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 This reminds me of one Christmas at the Devi Mandir. Maa wanted us to sing Christmas carols and Christmas hymns. So she set up a time for us to practice. Since we could tell that this was "important" to her, we tried to sing them to the best of our ability; concentrating on the words and on keeping them on tune. We looked at each other and felt that we had done a good job. Then Maa said "you're going to have to get a lot more devotion." It was so true. A lot of us "former" Christians had left Christianity behind. We had lost our devotion. "kalibhakta" <dr_hampton (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> Sun, 12 Sep 2004 17:28:03 -0000 Re: On Evil Karen (and all)-- I'm glad to hear you say "I am wondering if, for me, I won't make real headway in Hinduism until I find meaning in my Christian background." I think many of us go through this. When I started to get seriously devoted to Kali, She dealt with me along similar lines. I was confused and thought I'd ascended to some "higher" truth--in truth I was just high on bhakti. At one point I found myself on my knees in a cathedral, before a statue of Mary (oddly, dressed in red), with Ma telling me "how dare you think you have 'the' answer, when the people you see around you in this church love Me more than you do." I know what you mean when you write "Hinduism is leading me back to Christianity and Christianity is leading me forward to Hinduism." Since I've been in love with Kali, She has led me to more inspired Christian writings than I ever knew existed when I was formally a Christian. I started to worry--"Ma, you're not sending me away from You--are You??" I was not mindful of the Spiral--of the fact that She is the path, the trajectory, the means, the goal. But the point is, as you say, just look at Ramakrishna: he saw and loved God in the form of a prostitute, in the form of a cat, in the form of white cranes flying in a cloudy sky. He realized God in Christianity, in Islam, in Vaishnavism, in Shaktism, through vamachara, through dakshinachara, and through Advaita. Mother wants us to "break on through to the other side" and saints like Ramakrishna come to show us that the means of breaking through are everywhere. ok--that's enough. I hope I don't get started on the question of evil b/c I'll probably never shut up... Kalibhakta , "Karen Borak" <karenborak@e...> wrote: > Namaste ALL esp Linda, > > Even the very word "evil" send shivers up my spine. I agree with what you wrote. Every word. Until recently, I found myself collecting parts of a lot of religions and spiritual beliefs. However, since Shree Maa and Swamiji entered center stage, I am very interested in understanding Hinduism. No surprise there. The shocker for me is my sudden interest in my Christian background. We all know the truth is everywhere. Ramakrishna himself studied religions and found value in all of them. I am wondering if, for me, I won't make real headway in Hinduism until I find meaning in my Christian background. This is so confusing to me! This confusion began with learning about respecting our ancestors and paying homage to them from something that Devi Mandir sent out in an email message (that was before the birth of the ). I feel that I am beginning to learn to love my heritage. Hinduism is leading me back to Christianity and Christianity is leading me forward to Hinduism. A slowly moving spiral. For me. > > Namaste, > Karen > - > nierika@a... > > Sunday, September 12, 2004 6:45 AM > Re: On Evil > > > Dear group, > > Wow! How uncomfortabe all this talk of evil has made me. I left the church I grew up in because it was so black and white, and I believed I was damned from the beginning, just for being born, just for being a woman ... beyond my redemption. When I got more able to think for myself, I felt a religion that uses fear to illicit "good" behavior doesn't really make sense. If you are good out of fear, then the goodness has no meaning. > > The first chink in my armor or fear was a book I found called The Wisdom of China and India. I found nothing about evil there ... in these ancient Vedic texts. I found confusion, misunderstanding discussed, but not evil. The next chink was reading Paramahansa Yogananda's autobiography, and I just continued from there. Even in reading the Chandi, I have not seen these negative thoughts as evil, and if they are so named somewhere, I must have missed it. To me, they are very ordinary mundane, but persistent delusions (Too Much and Too Little; Self Deprecation and Self Conceit) that keep us from being closer to God and to our real selves. Even after these thoughts are slain, the Mother lifts them up to Heaven. > > In my youth I had a metaphysics instructor at a college I went to. She said I was always standing over myself with a big stick, which was true. I had learned to be my own thought police, and I cringed in terror waiting for the next negative thought to pop out. She said I had to put that stick down and realize that there is no evil, only confusion and misunderstanding. > > It took many years and much struggle to put that stick down, and the hardest one of all was my own Self Deprecation. It reminds me of a story I heard about Ramana Maharshi. He was lying in a small room in his ashram when two thieves entered. Because he had nothing for them to steal, one of them grabbed up his cane and hit him on the leg with it. Smilingly, Ramana offered the other leg. In ragged confusion the thieves fled. Is this not what our own negativities do when we shine the light of true understanding on them, of true perception, of true essence? And if all is Mother, how can anything be truly evil? I will be interested to see what others think about this. Jai Maa ~ Linda > > Sponsor > > Get unlimited calls to > > U.S./Canada > > > > > > Links > > > / > > b.. > > > c.. Terms of Service. Sponsor / <?subject=Un> Terms of Service <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Namaste ALL esp Kalibhakta, Your last line made me laugh! Not to worry, go ahead and get started!! It's such a relief for me to know that I am not alone in this Christian angst. I feel that I have slammed the door on my heritage, and I now feel that's a dishonor that I need to rectify to move forward. This group has been immensely helpful in that regard. I can't tell you how much that support has meant (and is meaning) to me. Your story about the cathedral is an eye-opener! Namaste, Karen - kalibhakta Sunday, September 12, 2004 11:28 AM Re: On Evil Karen (and all)--I'm glad to hear you say "I am wondering if, for me, I won't make realheadway in Hinduism until I find meaning in my Christian background."I think many of us go through this. When I started to get seriously devoted to Kali, She dealt with mealong similar lines. I was confused and thought I'd ascended to some"higher" truth--in truth I was just high on bhakti. At one point Ifound myself on my knees in a cathedral, before a statue of Mary(oddly, dressed in red), with Ma telling me "how dare you think youhave 'the' answer, when the people you see around you in this churchlove Me more than you do." I know what you mean when you write "Hinduism is leading me back toChristianity and Christianity is leading me forward to Hinduism."Since I've been in love with Kali, She has led me to more inspiredChristian writings than I ever knew existed when I was formally aChristian. I started to worry--"Ma, you're not sending me away fromYou--are You??" I was not mindful of the Spiral--of the fact that Sheis the path, the trajectory, the means, the goal.But the point is, as you say, just look at Ramakrishna: he saw andloved God in the form of a prostitute, in the form of a cat, in theform of white cranes flying in a cloudy sky. He realized God inChristianity, in Islam, in Vaishnavism, in Shaktism, throughvamachara, through dakshinachara, and through Advaita. Mother wants us to "break on through to the other side" and saintslike Ramakrishna come to show us that the means of breaking throughare everywhere. ok--that's enough. I hope I don't get started on the question of evilb/c I'll probably never shut up...Kalibhakta--- In , "Karen Borak" <karenborak@e...> wrote:> Namaste ALL esp Linda,> > Even the very word "evil" send shivers up my spine. I agree withwhat you wrote. Every word. Until recently, I found myselfcollecting parts of a lot of religions and spiritual beliefs. However, since Shree Maa and Swamiji entered center stage, I am veryinterested in understanding Hinduism. No surprise there. The shockerfor me is my sudden interest in my Christian background. We all knowthe truth is everywhere. Ramakrishna himself studied religions andfound value in all of them. I am wondering if, for me, I won't makereal headway in Hinduism until I find meaning in my Christianbackground. This is so confusing to me! This confusion began withlearning about respecting our ancestors and paying homage to them from something that Devi Mandir sent out in an email message (that wasbefore the birth of the ). I feel that I am beginning tolearn to love my heritage. Hinduism is leading me back toChristianity and Christianity is leading me forward to Hinduism. Aslowly moving spiral. For me.> > Namaste,> Karen> ----- Original Message ----- > nierika@a... > To: > Sunday, September 12, 2004 6:45 AM> Re: On Evil> > > Dear group,> > Wow! How uncomfortabe all this talk of evil has made me. I leftthe church I grew up in because it was so black and white, and Ibelieved I was damned from the beginning, just for being born, justfor being a woman .... beyond my redemption. When I got more able tothink for myself, I felt a religion that uses fear to illicit "good"behavior doesn't really make sense. If you are good out of fear, thenthe goodness has no meaning.> > The first chink in my armor or fear was a book I found called TheWisdom of China and India. I found nothing about evil there ... inthese ancient Vedic texts. I found confusion, misunderstandingdiscussed, but not evil. The next chink was reading ParamahansaYogananda's autobiography, and I just continued from there. Even inreading the Chandi, I have not seen these negative thoughts as evil,and if they are so named somewhere, I must have missed it. To me, theyare very ordinary mundane, but persistent delusions (Too Much and TooLittle; Self Deprecation and Self Conceit) that keep us from beingcloser to God and to our real selves. Even after these thoughts areslain, the Mother lifts them up to Heaven.> > In my youth I had a metaphysics instructor at a college I went to.She said I was always standing over myself with a big stick, which wastrue. I had learned to be my own thought police, and I cringed interror waiting for the next negative thought to pop out. She said Ihad to put that stick down and realize that there is no evil, onlyconfusion and misunderstanding.> > It took many years and much struggle to put that stick down, andthe hardest one of all was my own Self Deprecation. It reminds me of astory I heard about Ramana Maharshi. He was lying in a small room inhis ashram when two thieves entered. Because he had nothing for themto steal, one of them grabbed up his cane and hit him on the leg withit. Smilingly, Ramana offered the other leg. In ragged confusion thethieves fled. Is this not what our own negativities do when we shinethe light of true understanding on them, of true perception, of trueessence? And if all is Mother, how can anything be truly evil? I willbe interested to see what others think about this. Jai Maa ~ Linda> > Sponsor > > Get unlimited calls to> > U.S./Canada> > > > >> Links> > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:> /> > b.. > > > c.. Your use of is subject to the Terms ofService. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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