Guest guest Posted September 19, 2004 Report Share Posted September 19, 2004 Steve wrote: pain can tell us relatively simple things, like don't jump off the roof. both extreme physical pain as well as amorphous emotional pain have a lot of power to instruct but grasping the lesson is not always easy or immediate. Dear Steve, You speak of pain like you've been there, or are there, and what you said added much to what I wrote, which will show up in a post or two from this one. I did not know (I don't think) that you also struggle with pain, but I know how hard it is and so I will add you to my personal prayer list. Jai Maa ~ Linda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2004 Report Share Posted September 19, 2004 hi linda i do and i don't. we have a very disabled daughter. this causes a lot of burning the candle at both ends and stress of many kinds. and i have suffered psychological pain. there is also the [past] attendant stuff re: substance abuse and all that, which is really a way to manage pain or attempt to feel a greater unity in ones own body and mind. not trying to glorify it. individual existence is pain, if we have the sensitivity to feel it. but what about extreme pain. passed a kidney stone recently ... if i had to live with that every day, i am not sure. people who have suffered can't help but see the naivete of those who have not and know we are all vulnerable. this kind of love-teaching like ramakrishna, like what i imagine the real jesus to be ... they know, they accomodate to suffering without distorted visions of reality based on personal strength, etc. all the seconday pains that emerge from the primary pain ... this can be helped with the sadhana. some pains are not even managed by that. so what can we do. when we can hardly even move. we are driven back to the heart of bare existence again and again. god bless you. some day we might understand pain completely. until then, all we can do is care for ourselves and others and do whatever small sadhana- god-gestures we can. god bless you god bless you. may the mother relieve you of all pain forever. the more we can live by spirit the better. maybe this makes us stronger at doing that. i do not know. all we can do is live the life we are given. fortunately for us we have some good teachers. s , nierika@a... wrote: > > Steve wrote: > > pain can tell us relatively simple things, like don't jump off the > roof. both extreme physical pain as well as amorphous emotional pain > have a lot of power to instruct but grasping the lesson is not > always easy or immediate. > > > > Dear Steve, > > You speak of pain like you've been there, or are there, and what you said > added much to what I wrote, which will show up in a post or two from this one. I > did not know (I don't think) that you also struggle with pain, but I know > how hard it is and so I will add you to my personal prayer list. Jai Maa ~ > Linda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2004 Report Share Posted September 19, 2004 Hi Stevie, This is such a beautiful post. It comes from your heart. It is so honest and full of love. It comes from your knowing and your unknowing. Whatever your life has given you, it has given you a heart of compassion. I love you, Ardis Steve Connor <sconnor Sep 19, 2004 7:49 AM Re:To Steve on Pain <html><body> <tt> hi linda<BR> <BR> i do and i don't. we have a very disabled daughter. this causes a <BR> lot of burning the candle at both ends and stress of many kinds. and <BR> i have suffered psychological pain. there is also the [past] <BR> attendant stuff re: substance abuse and all that, which is really a <BR> way to manage pain or attempt to feel a greater unity in ones own <BR> body and mind. not trying to glorify it. individual existence is <BR> pain, if we have the sensitivity to feel it. but what about extreme <BR> pain. passed a kidney stone recently ... if i had to live with that <BR> every day, i am not sure. people who have suffered can't help but <BR> see the naivete of those who have not and know we are all <BR> vulnerable. this kind of love-teaching like ramakrishna, like what i <BR> imagine the real jesus to be ... they know, they accomodate to <BR> suffering without distorted visions of reality based on personal <BR> strength, etc.<BR> <BR> all the seconday pains that emerge from the primary pain ... this <BR> can be helped with the sadhana. some pains are not even managed by <BR> that. so what can we do. when we can hardly even move. we are driven <BR> back to the heart of bare existence again and again. god bless you. <BR> some day we might understand pain completely. until then, all we can <BR> do is care for ourselves and others and do whatever small sadhana-<BR> god-gestures we can. god bless you god bless you. may the mother <BR> relieve you of all pain forever. <BR> <BR> the more we can live by spirit the better. maybe this makes us <BR> stronger at doing that. i do not know. all we can do is live the <BR> life we are given. fortunately for us we have some good teachers.<BR> <BR> s<BR> <BR> , nierika@a... wrote:<BR> > <BR> > Steve wrote:<BR> > <BR> > pain can tell us relatively simple things, like don't jump off <BR> the <BR> > roof. both extreme physical pain as well as amorphous emotional <BR> pain <BR> > have a lot of power to instruct but grasping the lesson is not <BR> > always easy or immediate.<BR> > <BR> > <BR> > <BR> > Dear Steve,<BR> > <BR> > You speak of pain like you've been there, or are there, and what <BR> you said <BR> > added much to what I wrote, which will show up in a post or two <BR> from this one. I <BR> > did not know (I don't think) that you also struggle with pain, <BR> but I know <BR> > how hard it is and so I will add you to my personal prayer list. <BR> Jai Maa ~ <BR> > Linda<BR> <BR> <BR> </tt> <br> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC> <td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b> Sponsor</b></font></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF> <td align=center width=470><table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0> <tr> <td align=center><font face=arial size=-2></font><br><a href="http://us.ard./SIG=129ksjdsk/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=g\ roups/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1095712260/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http://compani\ on." alt=""><img src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/_companion/lrec_companion_04300\ 4.gif" alt="click here" width="300" height="250" border="0"></a></td></tr></table> </td> </tr> <tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1 src="http://us.adserver./l?M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=\ :HM/A=2128215/rand=989884475"></td></tr> </table> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <br> <tt><hr width="500"> <b> Links</b><br> <ul> <li><br><a href="/">\ /</a><br> <li><br><a href="?subject=Un">Devi_M\ andir</a><br> <li><a href=""> Terms of Service</a>. </ul> </tt> </br> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> </body></html> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2004 Report Share Posted September 19, 2004 STEVE AND LINDA, JAI MAA DURGA TO YOU BOTH. I HAVE FOLLOWED YOUR CONVERSATION THROUGH AND REALLY FEEL FOR YOU BOTH ESPECIALLY THE TOPIC THAT YOU ARE DISCUSSING. I PRAY TO MOTHER DURGA AND LORD SHIV THAT THEY BOTH TAKE ALL THAT PAIN FROM YOU AND BLESS YOU WITH AN AURA OF TRUE HAPPINESS, GIVE YOU BOTH STRENGTH AND ENCOURAGMENT. JAI MAA DURGA! JAY DAYAL. Steve Connor [sconnor] Monday, September 20, 2004 3:50 AM Re:To Steve on Pain hi linda i do and i don't. we have a very disabled daughter. this causes a lot of burning the candle at both ends and stress of many kinds. and i have suffered psychological pain. there is also the [past] attendant stuff re: substance abuse and all that, which is really a way to manage pain or attempt to feel a greater unity in ones own body and mind. not trying to glorify it. individual existence is pain, if we have the sensitivity to feel it. but what about extreme pain. passed a kidney stone recently ... if i had to live with that every day, i am not sure. people who have suffered can't help but see the naivete of those who have not and know we are all vulnerable. this kind of love-teaching like ramakrishna, like what i imagine the real jesus to be ... they know, they accomodate to suffering without distorted visions of reality based on personal strength, etc. all the seconday pains that emerge from the primary pain ... this can be helped with the sadhana. some pains are not even managed by that. so what can we do. when we can hardly even move. we are driven back to the heart of bare existence again and again. god bless you. some day we might understand pain completely. until then, all we can do is care for ourselves and others and do whatever small sadhana- god-gestures we can. god bless you god bless you. may the mother relieve you of all pain forever. the more we can live by spirit the better. maybe this makes us stronger at doing that. i do not know. all we can do is live the life we are given. fortunately for us we have some good teachers. s , nierika@a... wrote: > > Steve wrote: > > pain can tell us relatively simple things, like don't jump off the > roof. both extreme physical pain as well as amorphous emotional pain > have a lot of power to instruct but grasping the lesson is not > always easy or immediate. > > > > Dear Steve, > > You speak of pain like you've been there, or are there, and what you said > added much to what I wrote, which will show up in a post or two from this one. I > did not know (I don't think) that you also struggle with pain, but I know > how hard it is and so I will add you to my personal prayer list. Jai Maa ~ > Linda Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 Steve wrote: i do and i don't. we have a very disabled daughter. this causes a lot of burning the candle at both ends and stress of many kinds. and i have suffered psychological pain. and he also wrote: but what about extreme pain. passed a kidney stone recently ... if i had to live with that every day, i am not sure. people who have suffered can't help but see the naivete of those who have not and know we are all vulnerable. this kind of love-teaching like ramakrishna, like what i imagine the real jesus to be ... they know, they accomodate to suffering without distorted visions of reality based on personal strength, etc. Dear Steve, Thank you more for sharing your own experience. I am so sad to hear of your daughter, and burning the candle at both ends can cause pain in itself if it goes on for too long. That is part of how I got my illness ~ being a Type A person, thinking I could do it all, and doing it all, and then thinking I wasn't even doing enough. Now I can do very little, and I agree that people who don't go through this type of ongoing pain don't understand how it really feels. They try, but they don't really know. I appreciated what you said about Ramakrishna and Jesus, because I know that Jesus helped those with pain, but I did not know about Ramakrishna. Perhaps I will now go and buy the book about him, "Ramakrishna As We Knew Him." It is sitting in my Amazon.com "wish box." Sometimes for me, great lessons have come from my struggle with psychological pain, including more empathy toward others. The physical pain seems harder to learn from, but as I said in my post to Jay, it has turned me more, once again, God(dess)ward. Ammachi has actually healed people. Sometimes I have prayed to have my illness taken away from me, but I also pray for whatever is the Mother's will. If it is part of my lesson here to be in pain, then Her will be done. But I think when people go through an illness that causes chronic pain, whether it be psychological or physical, they go through the same stages of grief that Elizabeth Kubler Ross identified: anger, denial, bargaining, acceptance, not necessarily in that order. Sometimes I still get very angry, but I direct the anger at myself. I feel ashamed to be so sick. My hubby is a good partner because if I voice this one, he doesn't let me get away with it. I guess I don't believe that bargaining works, because I just gave that one up. So now I am with acceptance, which is a very big mountain to climb. I do know that I chose this life and with it I chose the circumstances I would go through and the lessons I would learn. I always liked being in school, well, actually, only after I got to college ... all the other school before that was terrible for me. So I am in a school now, but the curriculum has not yet been made clear to me, except that, for one thing I know for sure, being part of this group, doing sadhana with the group is definitely part of the curriculum. Every morning I look forward to reading the digest and imbibing all the nuggets of wisdom that everyone shares. I look forward to our group activities. I look forward to someday seeing Shree Maa and Swami again, though I don't know when that will be. Mother is soft, a gentle teacher. Swami is fun, a bit exciting in his enthusiasm, but he can also be very blunt. Once, as part of a group I asked him, "what do I do when something disturbs my peace of mind." His response: "Don't let it! NOTHING is more important than your peace of mind." I am still working on that one. I will end here because I have gone on a bit long, I think, but again I thank you for sharing more of your personal experience because it does help to know one is not alone. Jai Maa ~ Linda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 yes that bluntness is very important for us, in that we can take on that sort of stern commanding attitude with our own selves. if we don't, then what? for years and years i was angry because of my daughter's disabilities. it wasn't only that is was something difficult happened to her ... i was angry that MY plans were forever changed. but i was not angry enough at the anger, and let it grow. that was a waste. so we say, "no, that is not acceptable." this we aim at ourselves only, as you said, not judgemental of anyone else. it is a matter of our focus. we are taking care of ourselves, our peace of mind. what swamiji said is 100%. we need to protect this within ourselves. that is our temple. , nierika@a... wrote: > Steve wrote: > > i do and i don't. we have a very disabled daughter. this causes a > lot of burning the candle at both ends and stress of many kinds. and > i have suffered psychological pain. > and he also wrote: > but what about extreme pain. passed a kidney stone recently ... if i had to > live with that > every day, i am not sure. people who have suffered can't help but see the > naivete of those who have not and know we are all vulnerable. this kind of > love-teaching like ramakrishna, like what i imagine the real jesus to be ... they > know, they accomodate to suffering without distorted visions of reality > based on personal strength, etc. > > > Dear Steve, > > Thank you more for sharing your own experience. I am so sad to hear of your > daughter, and burning the candle at both ends can cause pain in itself if it > goes on for too long. That is part of how I got my illness ~ being a Type A > person, thinking I could do it all, and doing it all, and then thinking I > wasn't even doing enough. Now I can do very little, and I agree that people who > don't go through this type of ongoing pain don't understand how it really > feels. They try, but they don't really know. > > I appreciated what you said about Ramakrishna and Jesus, because I know that > Jesus helped those with pain, but I did not know about Ramakrishna. Perhaps > I will now go and buy the book about him, "Ramakrishna As We Knew Him." It is > sitting in my Amazon.com "wish box." Sometimes for me, great lessons have > come from my struggle with psychological pain, including more empathy toward > others. The physical pain seems harder to learn from, but as I said in my post > to Jay, it has turned me more, once again, God(dess)ward. Ammachi has actually > healed people. Sometimes I have prayed to have my illness taken away from > me, but I also pray for whatever is the Mother's will. If it is part of my > lesson here to be in pain, then Her will be done. > > But I think when people go through an illness that causes chronic pain, > whether it be psychological or physical, they go through the same stages of grief > that Elizabeth Kubler Ross identified: anger, denial, bargaining, > acceptance, not necessarily in that order. Sometimes I still get very angry, but I > direct the anger at myself. I feel ashamed to be so sick. My hubby is a good > partner because if I voice this one, he doesn't let me get away with it. I guess > I don't believe that bargaining works, because I just gave that one up. So now > I am with acceptance, which is a very big mountain to climb. > > I do know that I chose this life and with it I chose the circumstances I > would go through and the lessons I would learn. I always liked being in school, > well, actually, only after I got to college ... all the other school before > that was terrible for me. So I am in a school now, but the curriculum has not > yet been made clear to me, except that, for one thing I know for sure, being > part of this group, doing sadhana with the group is definitely part of the > curriculum. > > Every morning I look forward to reading the digest and imbibing all the > nuggets of wisdom that everyone shares. I look forward to our group activities. I > look forward to someday seeing Shree Maa and Swami again, though I don't know > when that will be. Mother is soft, a gentle teacher. Swami is fun, a bit > exciting in his enthusiasm, but he can also be very blunt. Once, as part of a > group I asked him, "what do I do when something disturbs my peace of mind." His > response: "Don't let it! NOTHING is more important than your peace of > mind." I am still working on that one. I will end here because I have gone on a > bit long, I think, but again I thank you for sharing more of your personal > experience because it does help to know one is not alone. Jai Maa ~ Linda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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