Guest guest Posted December 23, 2004 Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 Dear Family... Some of us have been studying the Guru Gita and having a class with discussion on Saturdays. I like to share comments and questions during the week with the current weeks facilitator - this week Latha. She asked me to share with her through the full Forum incase some of you might like to join us in this lovely study. Here goes.. [feel free to join our Saturday group when ever you can] Please freely share your thoughts, questions, insights on these verses. thanks, jayadeva The previous verses of the Guru Song have been helping us get an understanding of who the Guru is... the Doer of all... the One with whom we have loving relationship... the One awakening us from the darkness of ignorance The verse this week seem to be taking us into more fine detail of understanding. Verse 36..By means of whose truth, perceivable existence is true. By means of whose illumination, That becomes illuminated. By means of whose bliss, all become blissful. Therefore we bow down to the respected Guru. The sense of truth in this world that we perceive is dependent upon the Guru's truth. It seems to me that this is saying that we find truth in this world by the Guru's grace. And it is the Guru grace again that makes it so we are able to come to a realition of That - that Truth. Bliss, too... this being able to become established in a state of bliss is the Guru's gift. Understanding this, let us bow in reverence at the feet of the Guru. Verse 37.. By whose establishment exists this truth. By whose illumination is the form of light. By whose love children and all others are beloved. Therefore, we bow dow to the respected Guru. Again, it is the Guru's doing that we may have truth and light in our lives; and love! It is so great, and noteworthy that children are highlighted. Verse 38.. By means of whose instigation consciousness illuminates the object of awareness, while consciuosness itself is not illuminated. By means of which the waking, dreaming and deep dreamless sleep and other states of consciousness are illuminated. Therefore, we bow down to the respected Guru. Here again we see that it is the Guru shaping our experience and understanding, actually forming our consciousness. What do you think it means by "while consciousness itself is not illuminated"? Verse 39.. By whose gifts of wisdom and inspiration the universe is not perceived in various divisions. Who is the one form of truth of all forms. Therefore we bow down to the respected Guru. Is this telling us that the Guru makes it so we can see the unity of all? Verse 40.. One who has an opinion does not understand. One who has no opinion has right understanding. Deeply intuit the absence of many or various attitudes. Therefore, we bow down to the respected Guru. The word "intuit" seems a key to this place of awareness where there is no need for opinion or shifting attitudes - that place of steady wisdom, simply seeing what is, That. O yes.. we bow down to the respected Guru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2004 Report Share Posted December 27, 2004 Jayadeva, Hi. Not withstanding all that you have said, which is very true in its own right, I think these verses are another statement of Guru as Absolute. This is a restatement of Vedanta, or as Latha pointed out, Sat, Chit, Ananda - Being, Consciousness, Bliss. Throughout the Guru Gita, I feel this tension between what is the physical guru, and what is Shiva - absolute consciousness. I think this tension is deliberate. In some places the physical gurudeva is specifically mentioned, "...the guru with two arms...", but in most places, one is left with the dichotomy of guru tattwa, which is Shiva, and the physical guru, who may not be enlightened. However, the Guru Gita makes no distinction in this regard. In every verse one can simply replace the name Shiva for Guru. In this sequence of verses we are given guru as the source of truth, illumination, and bliss. The highest Truth is that That (everything) is God, or Absolute Being (also Consciousness and Bliss). Consciousness is that which illuminates, but as absolute itself, it is beyond modification and so is not illuminated itself. It is the knowledge of That, another gift of the guru (Shiva), that allows us to perceive the unity of perceivable existence, which is all That, or as Ardis said, all Kali. All of that is the theory. In the last verse is the practice:"...deeply intuit the absense of many or various attitudes." (Incidentally, seems like another reference to the physical guru). Regarding this matter of surrender. I don't know...it is a difficult concept, a difficult practice. It is easy to say "I surrender," but one still has to go about the practical business of living. Sometimes, it seems, the idea to "Let go, and let God (or Guru), just isn't sufficient. Habits and desires are often very hard to let go of, even with God's grace. The gradual purification of continuous sadhana, as Latha of late continuously points out, seems the only answer. Oh well, may we all of us find ourselves awake and ready when tomorrow at 5 AM finally rolls around. Jai Maa! Jai Swamiji! Love to you all, Chris , "Jayadeva" <omjayadeva> wrote: > > > Dear Family... > Some of us have been studying the Guru Gita and having a class with > discussion on Saturdays. I like to share comments and questions > during the week with the current weeks facilitator - this week > Latha. She asked me to share with her through the full Forum incase > some of you might like to join us in this lovely study. Here goes.. > [feel free to join our Saturday group when ever you can] Please > freely share your thoughts, questions, insights on these verses. > thanks, > jayadeva > > The previous verses of the Guru Song have been helping us get an > understanding of who the Guru is... the Doer of all... the One with > whom we have loving relationship... the One awakening us from the > darkness of ignorance > > The verse this week seem to be taking us into more fine detail of > understanding. > > Verse 36..By means of whose truth, perceivable existence is true. By > means of whose illumination, That becomes illuminated. By means of > whose bliss, all become blissful. Therefore we bow down to the > respected Guru. > > The sense of truth in this world that we perceive is dependent upon > the Guru's truth. It seems to me that this is saying that we find > truth in this world by the Guru's grace. And it is the Guru grace > again that makes it so we are able to come to a realition of That - > that Truth. Bliss, too... this being able to become established in a > state of bliss is the Guru's gift. Understanding this, let us bow in > reverence at the feet of the Guru. > > Verse 37.. By whose establishment exists this truth. By whose > illumination is the form of light. By whose love children and all > others are beloved. Therefore, we bow dow to the respected Guru. > > Again, it is the Guru's doing that we may have truth and light in > our lives; and love! It is so great, and noteworthy that children > are highlighted. > > Verse 38.. By means of whose instigation consciousness illuminates > the object of awareness, while consciuosness itself is not > illuminated. By means of which the waking, dreaming and deep > dreamless sleep and other states of consciousness are illuminated. > Therefore, we bow down to the respected Guru. > > Here again we see that it is the Guru shaping our experience and > understanding, actually forming our consciousness. What do you think > it means by "while consciousness itself is not illuminated"? > > Verse 39.. By whose gifts of wisdom and inspiration the universe is > not perceived in various divisions. Who is the one form of truth of > all forms. Therefore we bow down to the respected Guru. > > Is this telling us that the Guru makes it so we can see the unity of > all? > > Verse 40.. One who has an opinion does not understand. One who has > no opinion has right understanding. Deeply intuit the absence of > many or various attitudes. Therefore, we bow down to the respected > Guru. > > The word "intuit" seems a key to this place of awareness where there > is no need for opinion or shifting attitudes - that place of steady > wisdom, simply seeing what is, That. > > O yes.. we bow down to the respected Guru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2004 Report Share Posted December 27, 2004 Dear Chris, Thank you very much for adding your insights on the Guru Gita. We'd love to have you join us on Instant Messenger Saturdays at 11:30 am PST. Ardis On Dec 27, 2004, at 1:48 PM, Chris Kirner wrote: > > > Jayadeva, > > Hi. > > Not withstanding all that you have said, which is very true in its own > right, I think these verses are another statement of Guru as Absolute. > This is a restatement of Vedanta, or as Latha pointed out, Sat, Chit, > Ananda - Being, Consciousness, Bliss. > > Throughout the Guru Gita, I feel this tension between what is the > physical guru, and what is Shiva - absolute consciousness. I think > this tension is deliberate. In some places the physical gurudeva is > specifically mentioned, "...the guru with two arms...", but in most > places, one is left with the dichotomy of guru tattwa, which is Shiva, > and the physical guru, who may not be enlightened. However, the Guru > Gita makes no distinction in this regard. In every verse one can > simply replace the name Shiva for Guru. > > In this sequence of verses we are given guru as the source of truth, > illumination, and bliss. The highest Truth is that That (everything) > is God, or Absolute Being (also Consciousness and Bliss). > Consciousness is that which illuminates, but as absolute itself, it > is beyond modification and so is not illuminated itself. It is the > knowledge of That, another gift of the guru (Shiva), that allows us to > perceive the unity of perceivable existence, which is all That, or as > Ardis said, all Kali. > > All of that is the theory. In the last verse is the > practice:"...deeply intuit the absense of many or various attitudes." > (Incidentally, seems like another reference to the physical guru). > > Regarding this matter of surrender. I don't know...it is a difficult > concept, a difficult practice. It is easy to say "I surrender," but > one still has to go about the practical business of living. Sometimes, > it seems, the idea to "Let go, and let God (or Guru), just isn't > sufficient. Habits and desires are often very hard to let go of, even > with God's grace. The gradual purification of continuous sadhana, as > Latha of late continuously points out, seems the only answer. > > Oh well, may we all of us find ourselves awake and ready when tomorrow > at 5 AM finally rolls around. > > Jai Maa! > Jai Swamiji! > Love to you all, > > Chris > > > > , "Jayadeva" <omjayadeva> > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Family... > > Some of us have been studying the Guru Gita and having a class with > > discussion on Saturdays. I like to share comments and questions > > during the week with the current weeks facilitator - this week > > Latha. She asked me to share with her through the full Forum incase > > some of you might like to join us in this lovely study. Here goes.. > > [feel free to join our Saturday group when ever you can] Please > > freely share your thoughts, questions, insights on these verses. > > thanks, > > jayadeva > > > > The previous verses of the Guru Song have been helping us get an > > understanding of who the Guru is... the Doer of all... the One with > > whom we have loving relationship... the One awakening us from the > > darkness of ignorance > > > > The verse this week seem to be taking us into more fine detail of > > understanding. > > > > Verse 36..By means of whose truth, perceivable existence is true. By > > means of whose illumination, That becomes illuminated. By means of > > whose bliss, all become blissful. Therefore we bow down to the > > respected Guru. > > > > The sense of truth in this world that we perceive is dependent upon > > the Guru's truth. It seems to me that this is saying that we find > > truth in this world by the Guru's grace. And it is the Guru grace > > again that makes it so we are able to come to a realition of That - > > that Truth. Bliss, too... this being able to become established in a > > state of bliss is the Guru's gift. Understanding this, let us bow in > > reverence at the feet of the Guru. > > > > Verse 37.. By whose establishment exists this truth. By whose > > illumination is the form of light. By whose love children and all > > others are beloved. Therefore, we bow dow to the respected Guru. > > > > Again, it is the Guru's doing that we may have truth and light in > > our lives; and love! It is so great, and noteworthy that children > > are highlighted. > > > > Verse 38.. By means of whose instigation consciousness illuminates > > the object of awareness, while consciuosness itself is not > > illuminated. By means of which the waking, dreaming and deep > > dreamless sleep and other states of consciousness are illuminated. > > Therefore, we bow down to the respected Guru. > > > > Here again we see that it is the Guru shaping our experience and > > understanding, actually forming our consciousness. What do you think > > it means by "while consciousness itself is not illuminated"? > > > > Verse 39.. By whose gifts of wisdom and inspiration the universe is > > not perceived in various divisions. Who is the one form of truth of > > all forms. Therefore we bow down to the respected Guru. > > > > Is this telling us that the Guru makes it so we can see the unity of > > all? > > > > Verse 40.. One who has an opinion does not understand. One who has > > no opinion has right understanding. Deeply intuit the absence of > > many or various attitudes. Therefore, we bow down to the respected > > Guru. > > > > The word "intuit" seems a key to this place of awareness where there > > is no need for opinion or shifting attitudes - that place of steady > > wisdom, simply seeing what is, That. > > > > O yes.. we bow down to the respected Guru. > > > Sponsor > > > <121504_y1204_b_300250a.gif> > <l.gif> > > Links > > • > / > > • > > > • Terms of > Service. > > Attachment: (text/enriched) [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 Dear Chris, Thanks for your insightful and inspiring input. Please continue to share your insights on the Guru Gita with us whenever you can. much love, jayadeva , "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956> wrote: > > > Jayadeva, > > Hi. > > Not withstanding all that you have said, which is very true in its own > right, I think these verses are another statement of Guru as Absolute. > This is a restatement of Vedanta, or as Latha pointed out, Sat, Chit, > Ananda - Being, Consciousness, Bliss. > > Throughout the Guru Gita, I feel this tension between what is the > physical guru, and what is Shiva - absolute consciousness. I think > this tension is deliberate. In some places the physical gurudeva is > specifically mentioned, "...the guru with two arms...", but in most > places, one is left with the dichotomy of guru tattwa, which is Shiva, > and the physical guru, who may not be enlightened. However, the Guru > Gita makes no distinction in this regard. In every verse one can > simply replace the name Shiva for Guru. > > In this sequence of verses we are given guru as the source of truth, > illumination, and bliss. The highest Truth is that That (everything) > is God, or Absolute Being (also Consciousness and Bliss). > Consciousness is that which illuminates, but as absolute itself, it > is beyond modification and so is not illuminated itself. It is the > knowledge of That, another gift of the guru (Shiva), that allows us to > perceive the unity of perceivable existence, which is all That, or as > Ardis said, all Kali. > > All of that is the theory. In the last verse is the > practice:"...deeply intuit the absense of many or various attitudes." > (Incidentally, seems like another reference to the physical guru). > > Regarding this matter of surrender. I don't know...it is a difficult > concept, a difficult practice. It is easy to say "I surrender," but > one still has to go about the practical business of living. Sometimes, > it seems, the idea to "Let go, and let God (or Guru), just isn't > sufficient. Habits and desires are often very hard to let go of, even > with God's grace. The gradual purification of continuous sadhana, as > Latha of late continuously points out, seems the only answer. > > Oh well, may we all of us find ourselves awake and ready when tomorrow > at 5 AM finally rolls around. > > Jai Maa! > Jai Swamiji! > Love to you all, > > Chris > > > > , "Jayadeva" <omjayadeva> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Family... > > Some of us have been studying the Guru Gita and having a class with > > discussion on Saturdays. I like to share comments and questions > > during the week with the current weeks facilitator - this week > > Latha. She asked me to share with her through the full Forum incase > > some of you might like to join us in this lovely study. Here goes.. > > [feel free to join our Saturday group when ever you can] Please > > freely share your thoughts, questions, insights on these verses. > > thanks, > > jayadeva > > > > The previous verses of the Guru Song have been helping us get an > > understanding of who the Guru is... the Doer of all... the One with > > whom we have loving relationship... the One awakening us from the > > darkness of ignorance > > > > The verse this week seem to be taking us into more fine detail of > > understanding. > > > > Verse 36..By means of whose truth, perceivable existence is true. By > > means of whose illumination, That becomes illuminated. By means of > > whose bliss, all become blissful. Therefore we bow down to the > > respected Guru. > > > > The sense of truth in this world that we perceive is dependent upon > > the Guru's truth. It seems to me that this is saying that we find > > truth in this world by the Guru's grace. And it is the Guru grace > > again that makes it so we are able to come to a realition of That - > > that Truth. Bliss, too... this being able to become established in a > > state of bliss is the Guru's gift. Understanding this, let us bow in > > reverence at the feet of the Guru. > > > > Verse 37.. By whose establishment exists this truth. By whose > > illumination is the form of light. By whose love children and all > > others are beloved. Therefore, we bow dow to the respected Guru. > > > > Again, it is the Guru's doing that we may have truth and light in > > our lives; and love! It is so great, and noteworthy that children > > are highlighted. > > > > Verse 38.. By means of whose instigation consciousness illuminates > > the object of awareness, while consciuosness itself is not > > illuminated. By means of which the waking, dreaming and deep > > dreamless sleep and other states of consciousness are illuminated. > > Therefore, we bow down to the respected Guru. > > > > Here again we see that it is the Guru shaping our experience and > > understanding, actually forming our consciousness. What do you think > > it means by "while consciousness itself is not illuminated"? > > > > Verse 39.. By whose gifts of wisdom and inspiration the universe is > > not perceived in various divisions. Who is the one form of truth of > > all forms. Therefore we bow down to the respected Guru. > > > > Is this telling us that the Guru makes it so we can see the unity of > > all? > > > > Verse 40.. One who has an opinion does not understand. One who has > > no opinion has right understanding. Deeply intuit the absence of > > many or various attitudes. Therefore, we bow down to the respected > > Guru. > > > > The word "intuit" seems a key to this place of awareness where there > > is no need for opinion or shifting attitudes - that place of steady > > wisdom, simply seeing what is, That. > > > > O yes.. we bow down to the respected Guru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 Dear All, I have been thinking about Latha's comments about surrender (I know they didn't appear here, in the forum, but if you're interested, they can be found in the latest Guru Gita class transcript uploaded to the Files area) When we talk about surrender, we usually think of initial offering of ourselves at the feet of God or of Guru, and this is what I assummed Swamiji was talking about, but there is another important time of surrender, I think, and perhaps it was this time he referred to. Swamiji has before mentioned the transition into samadhi, and how one goes on doing his practice until, one day, he forgets to be afraid. Suddenly he finds he has entered. It is my feeling that this "forgetfulness" involves self-surrender. As I understand it, entrance into samadhi, samprajnana or asamprajnana (with or without knowledge), involves a kind of death experience. The ego obviously finds this frightening, so each time we approach the boundary of the mind, ego throws an obstacle in the way. To cross this boundary, is to cross into death, into the unknown, into the void, into the arms of Divine Mother. How else do we cross, but to cry "Mother, please help me," and then trust to her care? Samadhi is sometimes called the fourth state of consciousness. The others are the waking, dreaming, and deep sleep states. In deep sleep, one is said to be very close to the Atman, but the state is so shrouded in tamas guna, that nothing more than physical and mental refreshment results. When one goes to sleep, he wakes up the same as when he entered. When one enters the state of samadhi, she leaves it a different person. She will never be entirely the same again. Chris , "Jayadeva" <omjayadeva> wrote: > > > Dear Family... > Some of us have been studying the Guru Gita and having a class with > discussion on Saturdays. I like to share comments and questions > during the week with the current weeks facilitator - this week > Latha. She asked me to share with her through the full Forum incase > some of you might like to join us in this lovely study. Here goes.. > [feel free to join our Saturday group when ever you can] Please > freely share your thoughts, questions, insights on these verses. > thanks, > jayadeva > > The previous verses of the Guru Song have been helping us get an > understanding of who the Guru is... the Doer of all... the One with > whom we have loving relationship... the One awakening us from the > darkness of ignorance > > The verse this week seem to be taking us into more fine detail of > understanding. > > Verse 36..By means of whose truth, perceivable existence is true. By > means of whose illumination, That becomes illuminated. By means of > whose bliss, all become blissful. Therefore we bow down to the > respected Guru. > > The sense of truth in this world that we perceive is dependent upon > the Guru's truth. It seems to me that this is saying that we find > truth in this world by the Guru's grace. And it is the Guru grace > again that makes it so we are able to come to a realition of That - > that Truth. Bliss, too... this being able to become established in a > state of bliss is the Guru's gift. Understanding this, let us bow in > reverence at the feet of the Guru. > > Verse 37.. By whose establishment exists this truth. By whose > illumination is the form of light. By whose love children and all > others are beloved. Therefore, we bow dow to the respected Guru. > > Again, it is the Guru's doing that we may have truth and light in > our lives; and love! It is so great, and noteworthy that children > are highlighted. > > Verse 38.. By means of whose instigation consciousness illuminates > the object of awareness, while consciuosness itself is not > illuminated. By means of which the waking, dreaming and deep > dreamless sleep and other states of consciousness are illuminated. > Therefore, we bow down to the respected Guru. > > Here again we see that it is the Guru shaping our experience and > understanding, actually forming our consciousness. What do you think > it means by "while consciousness itself is not illuminated"? > > Verse 39.. By whose gifts of wisdom and inspiration the universe is > not perceived in various divisions. Who is the one form of truth of > all forms. Therefore we bow down to the respected Guru. > > Is this telling us that the Guru makes it so we can see the unity of > all? > > Verse 40.. One who has an opinion does not understand. One who has > no opinion has right understanding. Deeply intuit the absence of > many or various attitudes. Therefore, we bow down to the respected > Guru. > > The word "intuit" seems a key to this place of awareness where there > is no need for opinion or shifting attitudes - that place of steady > wisdom, simply seeing what is, That. > > O yes.. we bow down to the respected Guru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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