Guest guest Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Hi, I just thought I might add some thoughts on the versus this week. Verses 41 and 44 have been especially significant to me. The Guru, as consciousness is both the cause and the effect of all that is. The manifestation is the play , or lila . If we could only remember not to take everything so seriously and realize that like children who love playing hide and seek so consciousness loves the play. Anyway , this is as it appears to me. Verse 44, continues this in that as we are manifest so is the Guru and that the help is always readily available. In my experience the Gurus anger has always been a blessing which has helped to strip away some attachment or misconception...but oh the burn. And I do not know if this is fair but GururBrahma, GururVishnur, Gururdevo mahesvarah. Back to verse 32 where we learned that the Guru is in fact Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva. So when the Guru is angry at us it is for our own good and we are saved...when shiva is angry with us , it is for our own good and we are saved. Just some thought and feelings...Would love to hear others views Grace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Jai Maa, atagmgreen108 <gmgreen108 (AT) westnet (DOT) com.au> wrote: Hi, I just thought I might add some thoughts on the versus this week. Verses 41 and 44 have been especially significant to me. The Guru, as consciousness is both the cause and the effect of all that is. The manifestation is the play , or lila . If we could only remember not to take everything so seriously and realize that like children who love playing hide and seek so consciousness loves the play. Anyway , this is as it appears to me. Verse 44, continues this in that as we are manifest so is the Guru and that the help is always readily available. In my experience the Gurus anger has always been a blessing which has helped to strip away some attachment or misconception...but oh the burn. And I do not know if this is fair but GururBrahma, GururVishnur, Gururdevo mahesvarah. Back to verse 32 where we learned that the Guru is in fact Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva. So when the Guru is angry at us it is for our own good and we are saved...when shiva is angry with us , it is for our own good and we are saved.Just some thought and feelings...Would love to hear others viewsGrace Take Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Ata, Guru is both an individual(s) and a universal principle. That principle, which various beings embody, is the quality of bringing light into darkness. Please lead me From the unreal to the real From darkness to light From mortality to immortality. Chris , ata <another_tiny_atom> wrote: > Is the guru an actual person > > Jai Maa, > ata > > gmgreen108 <gmgreen108@w...> wrote: > > > Hi, I just thought I might add some thoughts on the versus this week. Verses 41 and 44 > have been especially significant to me. The Guru, as consciousness is both the cause and > the effect of all that is. The manifestation is the play , or lila .. If we could only remember > not to take everything so seriously and realize that like children who love playing hide and > seek so consciousness loves the play. Anyway , this is as it appears to me. Verse 44, > continues this in that as we are manifest so is the Guru and that the help is always readily > available. In my experience the Gurus anger has always been a blessing which has helped > to strip away some attachment or misconception...but oh the burn. And I do not know if > this is fair but GururBrahma, GururVishnur, Gururdevo mahesvarah. Back to verse 32 > where we learned that the Guru is in fact Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva. So when the Guru is > angry at us it is for our own good and we are saved...when shiva is angry with us , it is for > our own good and we are saved. > > Just some thought and feelings...Would love to hear others views > Grace > > > Links > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > Take Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Hi Ata, When I asked Swamiji about the nature of the Guru, he said the Guru is a personality in a body and a transcendent consciousness beyond all bodies. Hope this helps. I hope you can join us on Saturdays at 11:30 am on Instant Messenger for our classes on the Guru Gita. We have a wonderful satsang. Ardis on 1/6/05 7:46 AM, ata at another_tiny_atom wrote: Is the guru an actual person Jai Maa, ata gmgreen108 <gmgreen108 (AT) westnet (DOT) com.au> wrote: Hi, I just thought I might add some thoughts on the versus this week. Verses 41 and 44 have been especially significant to me. The Guru, as consciousness is both the cause and the effect of all that is. The manifestation is the play , or lila . If we could only remember not to take everything so seriously and realize that like children who love playing hide and seek so consciousness loves the play. Anyway , this is as it appears to me. Verse 44, continues this in that as we are manifest so is the Guru and that the help is always readily available. In my experience the Gurus anger has always been a blessing which has helped to strip away some attachment or misconception...but oh the burn. And I do not know if this is fair but GururBrahma, GururVishnur, Gururdevo mahesvarah. Back to verse 32 where we learned that the Guru is in fact Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva. So when the Guru is angry at us it is for our own good and we are saved...when shiva is angry with us , it is for our own good and we are saved. Just some thought and feelings...Would love to hear others views Grace Take Mail with you! <http://us.rd./mail_us/taglines/mobile/*http://mobile./maildemo> Get it on your mobile phone. / <?subject=Un> Terms of Service <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Dear Ata, My short answer to your question would be "no". However, the answer is not so simple, and, really, extends far beyond my limited knowledge. The individual guru is a human being, an individual locus in space and time. To have a relationship with an individual requires awareness (on some level) on both sides. That is the definition of relationship. We often read of disciple meeting their gurus under apparently wondrous circumstances. Such stories are exciting and faith-building. Swamiji, for instance, was welcomed with "I have been waiting a long time for you to come (or something similar)." But I think it is far more common for the external part of the relationship to be very mundane (if you can call anything about the guru-disciple relationship mundane). There are many disciples who do not see their gurus but very seldom. But of such things I am certainly not the person to advise. Better to learn of the "usual" relationship between guru and disciple from someone who has been close to the guru and steeped in the culture of discipleship for a long time. But as I understand such things, the guru has only one body and so, while there may be many disciples, only relatively few are close to the body of the guru. Most remain on the periphery. This is not to say they are not loved and cared for. My gurudeva used to write that the greatest teachings are not spoken. The most mysterious and important aspect of the guru-disciple relationship does not take place on the physical level anyway. The Guru Gita seems to be a celebration of that aspect of the guru with two arms and two eyes which is beyond the physical and individual. It speaks mainly of the universal guru - the guru principle. This principle is at work at every level, constantly leading us toward whatever light we can withstand, according to our desires. In some manner beyond my comprehension it pervades every guru and every disciple, no matter the physical proximity, or the attainment of the individual guru. The scriptures say (and I'm sorry I can't recall the individual Upanishad or quote verbatim from it) that even if the guru is bad, if the disciple has faith in that guru, the disciple will benefit as if from a Sat Guru (the highest). This is a powerful statement, and only deepens the mystery of the reality of guru/disciple. It is important to remember that the human gurudeva does not know everything. Even if the doors of all knowledge are open, the guru cannot spend all of her time retrieving knowledge of that which will unfold in the course of time anyway. If it comes "of its own", good. If not, then she will learn of it when the time is ripe for it. So, if I may make some assumptions base on your question, I would say to you that the guru of your heart may indeed be aware of you. Perhaps there is even no recognition of name, but a more subtle, psychic, awareness. Perhaps you are connected and being helped purely through the universal guru by virtue of your faith in the person you hold in your heart. Perhaps this person you hold to be your gurudeva, is your gurudeva, but the mutual recognition will only occur as the relationship develops through time. Truly, only you can tell. My you be blessed with pure love for the guru who loves you more than you love yourself and true insight into her divine nature. Jai Gurudeva! Chris , ata <another_tiny_atom> wrote: > Tiny query--can one have an individual guru without the guru knowing it > Jai Maa! > ata > > Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956> wrote: > > > Ata, > > Guru is both an individual(s) and a universal principle. That > principle, which various beings embody, is the quality of bringing > light into darkness. > > Please lead me > From the unreal to the real > From darkness to light > From mortality to immortality. > > Chris > > > > , ata <another_tiny_atom> wrote: > > Is the guru an actual person > > > > Jai Maa, > > ata > > > > gmgreen108 <gmgreen108@w...> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, I just thought I might add some thoughts on the versus this > week. Verses 41 and 44 > > have been especially significant to me. The Guru, as consciousness > is both the cause and > > the effect of all that is. The manifestation is the play , or lila > . If we could only remember > > not to take everything so seriously and realize that like children > who love playing hide and > > seek so consciousness loves the play. Anyway , this is as it > appears to me. Verse 44, > > continues this in that as we are manifest so is the Guru and that > the help is always readily > > available. In my experience the Gurus anger has always been a > blessing which has helped > > to strip away some attachment or misconception...but oh the burn. > And I do not know if > > this is fair but GururBrahma, GururVishnur, Gururdevo mahesvarah. > Back to verse 32 > > where we learned that the Guru is in fact Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva. > So when the Guru is > > angry at us it is for our own good and we are saved...when shiva is > angry with us , it is for > > our own good and we are saved. > > > > Just some thought and feelings...Would love to hear others views > > Grace > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > Take Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. > Sponsor > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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