Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Dear All, My thanks to all that responded to the question. And I have more questions at the end of this long post A brief recap of your responses Manoj: In all honesty and in my own experience, I think spiritual sadhana DOES NOT HAVE TO HAVE a direct impact on any external quality you may possess .... But, spiritual sadhana MUST HAVE a direct impact on your spiritual progress. =========================================== Brian : Who you are never changes even if you perform sadhana. Who you think you are changes constantly, and sadhana removes that confusion. ================================================= Muktimaa : if we are sincere in our Sadhana, with love in our heart, it most definitely impacts our personality. It may not be apparent at first, but if we have 'fallen in love' with our Sadhana, gradually our personalities will undergo a change." ..hopefully it would most certainly make an impatient person more patient =========================================== Grace : I am not so sure about the personality changes that do or do not occur. ============================================ Steve : It depends entirely on what sadhana you are doing." If you are doing self-inquiry, or abiding as THAT, etc., you might go through some very profound spiritual experiences, and at moments be very peaceful, but the personal hang-ups remain unchanged and will rise up again during stress. ======================================== Ardis : Being in the presence of God purifies the dross elements of the personality. ====================================================== So now my followup Brian - you stated the purpose of sadhana in a very concise and crisp way. My question is regarding the part "sadhana removes confusion" What happens during that time when our confusions are removed - when veil after veil of ignorance is being removed. How does it show up on us ? Manoj - you said "spiritual sadhana MUST HAVE a direct impact on your spiritual progress...." but "DOES NOT HAVE TO HAVE a direct impact on any external quality " Can you define spiritual progress .... and how is it different from any external quality as "overcoming anger" etc Steve - you said ".... personal hang-ups remain unchanged and will rise up again during stress...." What is the purpose of such sadhana if personal hang-ups remain unchanged and show up during stress ? Is sadhana for temporary relief ? I guess my question is .... WHAT DO WE HOPE TO GAIN OR LOSE BY DOING SADHANA ? AND HOW CAN WE MEASURE AT A PHYSICAL LEVEL THE CHANGES THAT HAPPEN BECAUSE OF SADHANA ? I look forward to your responses. Thank you all Signing off Barbara Walters Nanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 I do not feel that the purpose of sadhana is to “gain or lose” anything on the gross level. Swamiji always told me to have discrimination which is looking at each of my thoughts, actions and responses to see if they are getting me closer to my goal (God-Union ) or farther away. Maa told me that I would come to a crossroads where I could choose happiness or peace and to always choose peace. As for measuring... I see my Gurus as my measuring rod. Their example shows us the Goal and the way to the Goal (they are not really separate). The person who is known as Ardis is of little concern to me. All “i” want to be is a loving child of God who spreads that Divine Love around as much as possible and dwells with God as much as possible. Jai Maa on 1/29/05 9:40 AM, Nanda at chandimaakijai wrote: Dear All, My thanks to all that responded to the question. And I have more questions at the end of this long post A brief recap of your responses Manoj: In all honesty and in my own experience, I think spiritual sadhana DOES NOT HAVE TO HAVE a direct impact on any external quality you may possess .... But, spiritual sadhana MUST HAVE a direct impact on your spiritual progress. =========================================== Brian : Who you are never changes even if you perform sadhana. Who you think you are changes constantly, and sadhana removes that confusion. ================================================= Muktimaa : if we are sincere in our Sadhana, with love in our heart, it most definitely impacts our personality. It may not be apparent at first, but if we have 'fallen in love' with our Sadhana, gradually our personalities will undergo a change." ..hopefully it would most certainly make an impatient person more patient =========================================== Grace : I am not so sure about the personality changes that do or do not occur. ============================================ Steve : It depends entirely on what sadhana you are doing." If you are doing self-inquiry, or abiding as THAT, etc., you might go through some very profound spiritual experiences, and at moments be very peaceful, but the personal hang-ups remain unchanged and will rise up again during stress. ======================================== Ardis : Being in the presence of God purifies the dross elements of the personality. ====================================================== So now my followup Brian - you stated the purpose of sadhana in a very concise and crisp way. My question is regarding the part "sadhana removes confusion" What happens during that time when our confusions are removed - when veil after veil of ignorance is being removed. How does it show up on us ? Manoj - you said "spiritual sadhana MUST HAVE a direct impact on your spiritual progress...." but "DOES NOT HAVE TO HAVE a direct impact on any external quality " Can you define spiritual progress .... and how is it different from any external quality as "overcoming anger" etc Steve - you said ".... personal hang-ups remain unchanged and will rise up again during stress...." What is the purpose of such sadhana if personal hang-ups remain unchanged and show up during stress ? Is sadhana for temporary relief ? I guess my question is .... WHAT DO WE HOPE TO GAIN OR LOSE BY DOING SADHANA ? AND HOW CAN WE MEASURE AT A PHYSICAL LEVEL THE CHANGES THAT HAPPEN BECAUSE OF SADHANA ? I look forward to your responses. Thank you all Signing off Barbara Walters Nanda Sponsor Children International Would you give Hope to a Child in need? <http://us.ard./SIG=129e8re2b/M=332618.5923862.6999529.2152211/D=groups/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1107106960/A=2535374/R=0/SIG=142trf8s4/*http://children.780net.com/qry/CICHildselect.taf?_function=childSearch&ETTFMRS_BHST_ID=872&s=f&hostName=Children%20> · Click Here to meet a Girl <http://us.ard./SIG=129e8re2b/M=332618.5923862.6999529.2152211/D=groups/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1107106960/A=2535374/R=1/SIG=142trf8s4/*http://children.780net.com/qry/CICHildselect.taf?_function=childSearch&ETTFMRS_BHST_ID=872&s=f&hostName=Children%20> And Give Her Hope · Click Here to meet a Boy <http://us.ard./SIG=129e8re2b/M=332618.5923862.6999529.2152211/D=groups/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1107106960/A=2535374/R=2/SIG=1424c63em/*http://children.780net.com/qry/CICHildselect.taf?_function=childSearch&ETTFMRS_BHST_ID=871&s=m&hostName=Children%20> And Change His Life Learn More <http://us.ard./SIG=129e8re2b/M=332618.5923862.6999529.2152211/D=groups/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1107106960/A=2535374/R=3/SIG=1424c63em/*http://children.780net.com/qry/CICHildselect.taf?_function=childSearch&ETTFMRS_BHST_ID=871&s=m&hostName=Children%20> / <?subject=Un> Terms of Service <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 , "Nanda" <chandimaakijai> wrote: > Manoj - you said "spiritual sadhana MUST HAVE a direct impact on > your spiritual progress...." but "DOES NOT HAVE TO HAVE a direct > impact on any external quality " > > Can you define spiritual progress .... and how is it different from > any external quality as "overcoming anger" etc Spiritual progress means 1. how much (in terms of time and in terms of intimacy) we are connected to the Divine. 2. How constant is the level of the connection (in other words, are we always at the "high energy" level, or is it moments of "high energy" followed by long periods of ordinary existence). Difference vis-a-vis external quality, I have in mind 2 references: 1. of the sadhak whose sadhana is a "WIP" or Work in Progress. For such a sadhak, it depends on what was his starting point and how much sadhana he has done. also on how much he has been able to imbibe. It also depends on what stage of his sadhana you "test" him for his external transformation. Take extreme cases like Kamsa and Sisupala (from Krishna's story) or Ravana (Ramayana) where no beneficial external transformation ever took place. These folks attained mukti because they did what I call "negative sadhana" which is defined as A. All-consuming hatred towards the Lord which lead to "constant remembrance" of the Lord B. Death at the Lord's hands. Their character was not beneficially improved by their sadhana, at best they were grey characters which leaned more towards the black. Although these are pretty dramatic examples, even if you take normal everyday characters, you might be able to see examples where sadhana does not necessarily have a beneficial impact on your character. On the other side of the matter, Sadhana may have an impact, and will most likely have an impact on most of us, but all I am cautioning against is to take it as a gospel truth that it WILL HAVE an impact. (even if you don't want to be cautioned, see it an invitaion to introspect the flavors that progress of sadhana can take across individuals). 2. The other reference I have is that of the avadhutas who have behaved strangely in society. Years of mystical bliss have made them incapable of social activity. They sometimes lack the social skills to tolerate the ordinary life we live in, and have done numerous strange acts that would in no way be described as "lack of anger" or "equanimity" and all the positive qualities. I don't mean to say that they have no character (I think they don't need such moral tools, which society uses as a measure to judge a person's worth, as they are constantly connected to the Supreme), but there's is an example of "external quality not following the expected pattern" as your deepening and deepened sadhana. Jai Ma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 , Ardis Jackson <ardis1@v...> wrote: "The person who is known as Ardis is of little concern to me. All "i" want to be is a loving child of God who spreads that Divine Love around as much as possible and dwells with God as much as possible." Jai Maa! YES! YES! YES!!!!!! :<) This is the bottem line for 'me',as well! i bow to you, dear Ardis! Let us all be Divine Lovers! Jai Maa! Jai Swamiji! Jai Ramakrishna Deva! muktimaa > I do not feel that the purpose of sadhana is to ³gain or lose² anything on > the gross level. Swamiji always told me to have discrimination which is > looking at each of my thoughts, actions and responses to see if they are > getting me closer to my goal (God-Union ) or farther away. Maa told me that > I would come to a crossroads where I could choose happiness or peace and to > always choose peace. > > As for measuring... I see my Gurus as my measuring rod. > > Their example shows us the Goal and the way to the Goal (they are not really > separate). > > The person who is known as Ardis is of little concern to me. All ³i² want > to be is a loving child of God who spreads that Divine Love around as much > as possible and dwells with God as much as possible. > > Jai Maa > > > on 1/29/05 9:40 AM, Nanda at chandimaakijai wrote: > > > > > > > Dear All, > > My thanks to all that responded to the question. And I have more > > questions at the end of this long post > > > > A brief recap of your responses > > > > Manoj: > > > > In all honesty and in my own experience, I think spiritual sadhana > > DOES NOT HAVE TO HAVE a direct impact on any external quality you > > may possess .... But, spiritual sadhana MUST HAVE a direct impact > > on your spiritual progress. > > > > =========================================== > > Brian : > > Who you are never changes even if you perform sadhana. > > > > Who you think you are changes constantly, and sadhana removes that > > confusion. > > ================================================= > > Muktimaa : > > if we are sincere in our Sadhana, with love in our heart, it most > > definitely impacts our personality. It may not be apparent at first, > > but if we have 'fallen in love' with our Sadhana, gradually our > > personalities will undergo a change." ..hopefully it would most > > certainly make an impatient person more patient > > =========================================== > > Grace : > > I am not so sure about the personality changes that do or do not > > occur. > > ============================================ > > Steve : > > It depends entirely on what sadhana you are doing." > > > > If you are doing self-inquiry, or abiding as THAT, etc., you might > > go through some very profound spiritual experiences, and at moments > > be very peaceful, but the personal hang-ups remain unchanged and > > will rise up again during stress. > > ======================================== > > Ardis : > > > > Being in the presence of God purifies the dross elements of the > > personality. > > ====================================================== > > > > > > So now my followup > > > > Brian - you stated the purpose of sadhana in a very concise and > > crisp way. My question is regarding the part "sadhana removes > > confusion" > > > > What happens during that time when our confusions are removed - when > > veil after veil of ignorance is being removed. How does it show up > > on us ? > > > > Manoj - you said "spiritual sadhana MUST HAVE a direct impact on > > your spiritual progress...." but "DOES NOT HAVE TO HAVE a direct > > impact on any external quality " > > > > Can you define spiritual progress .... and how is it different from > > any external quality as "overcoming anger" etc > > > > Steve - you said ".... personal hang-ups remain unchanged and will > > rise up again during stress...." > > What is the purpose of such sadhana if personal hang-ups remain > > unchanged and show up during stress ? Is sadhana for temporary > > relief ? > > > > I guess my question is .... WHAT DO WE HOPE TO GAIN OR LOSE BY DOING > > SADHANA ? AND HOW CAN WE MEASURE AT A PHYSICAL LEVEL THE CHANGES > > THAT HAPPEN BECAUSE OF SADHANA ? > > > > > > I look forward to your responses. > > > > Thank you all > > > > Signing off > > Barbara Walters Nanda > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > Children International > > Would you give Hope to a Child in need? > > > > <http://us.ard./SIG=129e8re2b/M=332618.5923862.6999529.215221 1/D=grou > > ps/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1107106960/A=2535374/R=0/SIG=142trf8s4/*http:// children > > .780net.com/qry/CICHildselect.taf? _function=childSearch&ETTFMRS_BHST_ID=872&s= > > f&hostName=Children%20> > > > > · Click Here to meet a Girl > > <http://us.ard./SIG=129e8re2b/M=332618.5923862.6999529.215221 1/D=grou > > ps/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1107106960/A=2535374/R=1/SIG=142trf8s4/*http:// children > > .780net.com/qry/CICHildselect.taf? _function=childSearch&ETTFMRS_BHST_ID=872&s= > > f&hostName=Children%20> > > And Give Her Hope > > > > · Click Here to meet a Boy > > <http://us.ard./SIG=129e8re2b/M=332618.5923862.6999529.215221 1/D=grou > > ps/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1107106960/A=2535374/R=2/SIG=1424c63em/*http:// children > > .780net.com/qry/CICHildselect.taf? _function=childSearch&ETTFMRS_BHST_ID=871&s= > > m&hostName=Children%20> > > And Change His Life > > > > > > Learn More > > <http://us.ard./SIG=129e8re2b/M=332618.5923862.6999529.215221 1/D=grou > > ps/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1107106960/A=2535374/R=3/SIG=1424c63em/*http:// children > > .780net.com/qry/CICHildselect.taf? _function=childSearch&ETTFMRS_BHST_ID=871&s= > > m&hostName=Children%20> > > > > > > Links > > * > > * / > > * > > * > > * > > <? subject=Un> > > * > > * Terms of Service > > <> . > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Brian - you stated the purpose of sadhana in a very concise and crisp way. My question is regarding the part "sadhana removes confusion" What happens during that time when our confusions are removed - when veil after veil of ignorance is being removed. How does it show up on us ? As we perform more sadhana, every perception moves from gross toward subtle. Over time we become more and more subtle in our every action and intention. As we become more subtle, She becomes more obvious, until one day we are exactly Shree Maa, the perfect representation of the subtleness of the Goddess. We realize WE ARE MAA and love and peace are all that remains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Nanda, I don't think I hope to get anything anymore because I do not think I have gotten anything in the past. I do my Sadhana in the present because I am in the body and must do something and not much else interests me. Now why is that so I do not know and am no longer interested in figuring out. Jai Maa Jai Swamiji Grace On 30/01/2005, at 4:40 AM, Nanda wrote: > > > Dear All, > My thanks to all that responded to the question. And I have more > questions at the end of this long post > > A brief recap of your responses > > Manoj: > > In all honesty and in my own experience, I think spiritual sadhana > DOES NOT HAVE TO HAVE a direct impact on any external quality you > may possess .... But, spiritual sadhana MUST HAVE a direct impact > on your spiritual progress. > > =========================================== > Brian : > Who you are never changes even if you perform sadhana. > > Who you think you are changes constantly, and sadhana removes that > confusion. > ================================================= > Muktimaa : > if we are sincere in our Sadhana, with love in our heart, it most > definitely impacts our personality. It may not be apparent at first, > but if we have 'fallen in love' with our Sadhana, gradually our > personalities will undergo a change." ..hopefully it would most > certainly make an impatient person more patient > =========================================== > Grace : > I am not so sure about the personality changes that do or do not > occur. > ============================================ > Steve : > It depends entirely on what sadhana you are doing." > > If you are doing self-inquiry, or abiding as THAT, etc., you might > go through some very profound spiritual experiences, and at moments > be very peaceful, but the personal hang-ups remain unchanged and > will rise up again during stress. > ======================================== > Ardis : > > Being in the presence of God purifies the dross elements of the > personality. > ====================================================== > > > So now my followup > > Brian - you stated the purpose of sadhana in a very concise and > crisp way. My question is regarding the part "sadhana removes > confusion" > > What happens during that time when our confusions are removed - when > veil after veil of ignorance is being removed. How does it show up > on us ? > > Manoj - you said "spiritual sadhana MUST HAVE a direct impact on > your spiritual progress...." but "DOES NOT HAVE TO HAVE a direct > impact on any external quality " > > Can you define spiritual progress .... and how is it different from > any external quality as "overcoming anger" etc > > Steve - you said ".... personal hang-ups remain unchanged and will > rise up again during stress...." > What is the purpose of such sadhana if personal hang-ups remain > unchanged and show up during stress ? Is sadhana for temporary > relief ? > > I guess my question is .... WHAT DO WE HOPE TO GAIN OR LOSE BY DOING > SADHANA ? AND HOW CAN WE MEASURE AT A PHYSICAL LEVEL THE CHANGES > THAT HAPPEN BECAUSE OF SADHANA ? > > > I look forward to your responses. > > Thank you all > > Signing off > Barbara Walters Nanda > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > Children International > > Would you give Hope to a Child in need? > > > <332170_011805_newchildforemail.jpg> > > · > Click Here to meet a Girl > And Give Her Hope > > · > Click Here to meet a Boy > And Change His Life > > Learn More > > <l.gif> > > Links > > • > / > > • > > > • Terms of > Service. > > Attachment: (text/enriched) [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Dear Ardis and Muktimaa...an admirable goal...count me in. Grace On 30/01/2005, at 6:23 AM, muktimaa wrote: > > > , Ardis Jackson <ardis1@v...> wrote: > > "The person who is known as Ardis is of little concern to me. > All "i" want to be is a loving child of God who spreads that > Divine > Love around as much as possible and dwells with God as much as > possible." > > Jai Maa! YES! YES! YES!!!!!! :<) This is the bottem line for 'me',as > well! i bow to you, dear Ardis! Let us all be Divine Lovers! > Jai Maa! Jai Swamiji! Jai Ramakrishna Deva! > > muktimaa > > > > I do not feel that the purpose of sadhana is to ³gain or > lose² > anything on > > the gross level. Swamiji always told me to have discrimination > which is > > looking at each of my thoughts, actions and responses to see if > they are > > getting me closer to my goal (God-Union ) or farther away. Maa > told me that > > I would come to a crossroads where I could choose happiness or > peace and to > > always choose peace. > > > > As for measuring... I see my Gurus as my measuring rod. > > > > Their example shows us the Goal and the way to the Goal (they are > not really > > separate). > > > > The person who is known as Ardis is of little concern to me. All > ³i² want > > to be is a loving child of God who spreads that Divine Love around > as much > > as possible and dwells with God as much as possible. > > > > Jai Maa > > > > > > on 1/29/05 9:40 AM, Nanda at chandimaakijai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > My thanks to all that responded to the question. And I have more > > > questions at the end of this long post > > > > > > A brief recap of your responses > > > > > > Manoj: > > > > > > In all honesty and in my own experience, I think spiritual sadhana > > > DOES NOT HAVE TO HAVE a direct impact on any external quality you > > > may possess .... But, spiritual sadhana MUST HAVE a direct > impact > > > on your spiritual progress. > > > > > > =========================================== > > > Brian : > > > Who you are never changes even if you perform sadhana. > > > > > > Who you think you are changes constantly, and sadhana removes that > > > confusion. > > > ================================================= > > > Muktimaa : > > > if we are sincere in our Sadhana, with love in our heart, it most > > > definitely impacts our personality. It may not be apparent at > first, > > > but if we have 'fallen in love' with our Sadhana, gradually our > > > personalities will undergo a change." ..hopefully it would most > > > certainly make an impatient person more patient > > > =========================================== > > > Grace : > > > I am not so sure about the personality changes that do or do not > > > occur. > > > ============================================ > > > Steve : > > > It depends entirely on what sadhana you are doing." > > > > > > If you are doing self-inquiry, or abiding as THAT, etc., you might > > > go through some very profound spiritual experiences, and at > moments > > > be very peaceful, but the personal hang-ups remain unchanged and > > > will rise up again during stress. > > > ======================================== > > > Ardis : > > > > > > Being in the presence of God purifies the dross elements of the > > > personality. > > > ====================================================== > > > > > > > > > So now my followup > > > > > > Brian - you stated the purpose of sadhana in a very concise and > > > crisp way. My question is regarding the part "sadhana removes > > > confusion" > > > > > > What happens during that time when our confusions are removed - > when > > > veil after veil of ignorance is being removed. How does it show up > > > on us ? > > > > > > Manoj - you said "spiritual sadhana MUST HAVE a direct impact on > > > your spiritual progress...." but "DOES NOT HAVE TO HAVE a direct > > > impact on any external quality " > > > > > > Can you define spiritual progress .... and how is it different > from > > > any external quality as "overcoming anger" etc > > > > > > Steve - you said ".... personal hang-ups remain unchanged and will > > > rise up again during stress...." > > > What is the purpose of such sadhana if personal hang-ups remain > > > unchanged and show up during stress ? Is sadhana for temporary > > > relief ? > > > > > > I guess my question is .... WHAT DO WE HOPE TO GAIN OR LOSE BY > DOING > > > SADHANA ? AND HOW CAN WE MEASURE AT A PHYSICAL LEVEL THE CHANGES > > > THAT HAPPEN BECAUSE OF SADHANA ? > > > > > > > > > I look forward to your responses. > > > > > > Thank you all > > > > > > Signing off > > > Barbara Walters Nanda > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > Children International > > > Would you give Hope to a Child in need? > > > > > > > <http://us.ard./SIG=129e8re2b/M=332618.5923862.6999529.215221 > 1/D=grou > > > > ps/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1107106960/A=2535374/R=0/SIG=142trf8s4/*http:// > children > > > .780net.com/qry/CICHildselect.taf? > _function=childSearch&ETTFMRS_BHST_ID=872&s= > > > f&hostName=Children%20> > > > > > > · Click Here to meet a Girl > > > > <http://us.ard./SIG=129e8re2b/M=332618.5923862.6999529.215221 > 1/D=grou > > > > ps/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1107106960/A=2535374/R=1/SIG=142trf8s4/*http:// > children > > > .780net.com/qry/CICHildselect.taf? > _function=childSearch&ETTFMRS_BHST_ID=872&s= > > > f&hostName=Children%20> > > > And Give Her Hope > > > > > > · Click Here to meet a Boy > > > > <http://us.ard./SIG=129e8re2b/M=332618.5923862.6999529.215221 > 1/D=grou > > > > ps/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1107106960/A=2535374/R=2/SIG=1424c63em/*http:// > children > > > .780net.com/qry/CICHildselect.taf? > _function=childSearch&ETTFMRS_BHST_ID=871&s= > > > m&hostName=Children%20> > > > And Change His Life > > > > > > > > > Learn More > > > > <http://us.ard./SIG=129e8re2b/M=332618.5923862.6999529.215221 > 1/D=grou > > > > ps/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1107106960/A=2535374/R=3/SIG=1424c63em/*http:// > children > > > .780net.com/qry/CICHildselect.taf? > _function=childSearch&ETTFMRS_BHST_ID=871&s= > > > m&hostName=Children%20> > > > > > > > > > Links > > > * > > > * / > > > * > > > * > > > * > > > <? > subject=Un> > > > * > > > * Terms of > Service > > > <> . > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > Children International > > Would you give Hope to a Child in need? > > > <332170_011805_newchildforemail.jpg> > > · > Click Here to meet a Girl > And Give Her Hope > > · > Click Here to meet a Boy > And Change His Life > > Learn More > > <l.gif> > > Links > > • > / > > • > > > • Terms of > Service. > > Attachment: (text/enriched) [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Dear Muktimaa and Grace, May we all dwell with God, love God and spread God's Love around as much as possible. Thanks for joining in the goal! Ardis on 1/29/05 12:20 PM, Grace Green at gmgreen108 wrote: > Dear Ardis and Muktimaa...an admirable goal...count me in. > Grace > On 30/01/2005, at 6:23 AM, muktimaa wrote: > >> >> >> , Ardis Jackson <ardis1@v...> wrote: >> >> "The person who is known as Ardis is of little concern to me.? >> All "i" want to be is a loving child of God who spreads that >> Divine >> Love around as much as possible and dwells with God as much as >> possible." >> >> Jai Maa! YES! YES! YES!!!!!! :<)? This is the bottem line for 'me',as >> well! i bow to you, dear Ardis! Let us all be Divine Lovers! >> ?????????????????? Jai Maa! Jai Swamiji! Jai Ramakrishna Deva! >> >> ?????????????????????????? muktimaa >> >> >>> I do not feel that the purpose of sadhana is to ©øgain or >> lose©÷ >> anything on >>> the gross level.? Swamiji always told me to have discrimination >> which is >>> looking at each of my thoughts, actions and responses to see if >> they are >>> getting me closer to my goal (God-Union ) or farther away.? Maa >> told me that >>> I would come to a crossroads where I could choose happiness or >> peace and to >>> always choose peace. >>> >>> As for measuring... I see my Gurus as my measuring rod. >>> >>> Their example shows us the Goal and the way to the Goal (they are >> not really >>> separate). >>> >>> The person who is known as Ardis is of little concern to me.? All >> ©øi©÷ want >>> to be is a loving child of God who spreads that Divine Love around >> as much >>> as possible and dwells with God as much as possible. >>> >>> Jai Maa >>> >>> >>> on 1/29/05 9:40 AM, Nanda at chandimaakijai wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Dear All, >>>> My thanks to all that responded to the question. And I have more >>>> questions at the end of this long post >>>> >>>> A brief recap of your responses >>>> >>>> Manoj: >>>> >>>> In all honesty and in my own experience, I think spiritual sadhana >>>> DOES NOT HAVE TO HAVE a direct impact on any external quality you >>>> may possess? ....? But, spiritual sadhana MUST HAVE a direct >> impact >>>> on your spiritual progress. >>>> >>>> =========================================== >>>> Brian : >>>> Who you are never changes even if you perform sadhana. >>>> >>>> Who you think you are changes constantly, and sadhana removes that >>>> confusion. >>>> ================================================= >>>> Muktimaa : >>>> if we are sincere in our Sadhana, with love in our heart, it most >>>> definitely impacts our personality. It may not be apparent at >> first, >>>> but if we have 'fallen in love' with our Sadhana, gradually our >>>> personalities will undergo a change." ..hopefully it would most >>>> certainly make an impatient person more patient >>>> =========================================== >>>> Grace : >>>> I am not so sure about the personality changes that do or do not >>>> occur. >>>> ============================================ >>>> Steve : >>>> It depends entirely on what sadhana you are doing." >>>> >>>> If you are doing self-inquiry, or abiding as THAT, etc., you might >>>> go through some very profound spiritual experiences, and at >> moments >>>> be very peaceful, but the personal hang-ups remain unchanged and >>>> will rise up again during stress. >>>> ======================================== >>>> Ardis : >>>> >>>> Being in the presence of God purifies the dross elements of the >>>> personality. >>>> ====================================================== >>>> >>>> >>>> So now my followup >>>> >>>> Brian - you stated the purpose of sadhana in a very concise and >>>> crisp way. My question is regarding the part "sadhana removes >>>> confusion" >>>> >>>> What happens during that time when our confusions are removed - >> when >>>> veil after veil of ignorance is being removed. How does it show up >>>> on us ? >>>> >>>> Manoj - you said "spiritual sadhana MUST HAVE a direct impact on >>>> your spiritual progress...." but "DOES NOT HAVE TO HAVE a direct >>>> impact on any external quality " >>>> >>>> Can you define spiritual progress .... and how is it different >> from >>>> any external quality as "overcoming anger" etc >>>> >>>> Steve - you said ".... personal hang-ups remain unchanged and will >>>> rise up again during stress...." >>>> What is the purpose of such sadhana if personal hang-ups remain >>>> unchanged and show up during stress ? Is sadhana for temporary >>>> relief ? >>>> >>>> I guess my question is .... WHAT DO WE HOPE TO GAIN OR LOSE BY >> DOING >>>> SADHANA ? AND HOW CAN WE MEASURE AT A PHYSICAL LEVEL THE CHANGES >>>> THAT HAPPEN BECAUSE OF SADHANA ? >>>> >>>> >>>> I look forward to your responses. >>>> >>>> Thank you all >>>> >>>> Signing off >>>> Barbara Walters Nanda >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sponsor >>>> >>>> ?? >>>> ???? >>>> ? Children International >>>> ? Would you give Hope to a Child in need? >>>> ???? >>>> >> <http://us.ard./SIG=129e8re2b/M=332618.5923862.6999529.215221 >> 1/D=grou >>>> >> ps/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1107106960/A=2535374/R=0/SIG=142trf8s4/*http:// >> children >>>> .780net.com/qry/CICHildselect.taf? >> _function=childSearch&ETTFMRS_BHST_ID=872&s= >>>> f&hostName=Children%20> >>>> ???? >>>> ? ¡¤? Click Here to meet a Girl >>>> >> <http://us.ard./SIG=129e8re2b/M=332618.5923862.6999529.215221 >> 1/D=grou >>>> >> ps/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1107106960/A=2535374/R=1/SIG=142trf8s4/*http:// >> children >>>> .780net.com/qry/CICHildselect.taf? >> _function=childSearch&ETTFMRS_BHST_ID=872&s= >>>> f&hostName=Children%20> >>>> And Give Her Hope >>>> ??? >>>> ? ¡¤? Click Here to meet a Boy >>>> >> <http://us.ard./SIG=129e8re2b/M=332618.5923862.6999529.215221 >> 1/D=grou >>>> >> ps/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1107106960/A=2535374/R=2/SIG=1424c63em/*http:// >> children >>>> .780net.com/qry/CICHildselect.taf? >> _function=childSearch&ETTFMRS_BHST_ID=871&s= >>>> m&hostName=Children%20> >>>> And Change His Life >>>> ???? >>>> ???? >>>> ? Learn More >>>> >> <http://us.ard./SIG=129e8re2b/M=332618.5923862.6999529.215221 >> 1/D=grou >>>> >> ps/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1107106960/A=2535374/R=3/SIG=1424c63em/*http:// >> children >>>> .780net.com/qry/CICHildselect.taf? >> _function=childSearch&ETTFMRS_BHST_ID=871&s= >>>> m&hostName=Children%20> >>>> >>>> >>>> Links >>>> * >>>> * / >>>> *? >>>> * >>>> * >>>> <? >> subject=Un> >>>> *? >>>> * Terms of >> Service >>>> <> . >>>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sponsor >> >> >> >> Children International >> >> Would you give Hope to a Child in need? >> >> ? >> <332170_011805_newchildforemail.jpg> >> >> ¡¤ >> Click Here to meet a Girl >> And Give Her Hope >> >> ¡¤ >> Click Here to meet a Boy >> And Change His Life >> >> Learn More >> >> <l.gif> >> >> Links >> >> ? >> / >> ? >> ? >> >> ? >> ? Terms of >> Service. >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Thank you for this, dear Brian (and Krista and Debi) As we perform more sadhana, every perception moves from gross toward subtle. Over time we become more and more subtle in our every action and intention. As we become more subtle, She becomes more obvious, >until one day we are exactly Shree Maa, the perfect representation of the subtleness of the Goddess. We realize WE ARE MAA and love and peace are all that remains. What a vision, what a goal. Ardis Sponsor Children International Would you give Hope to a Child in need? <http://us.ard./SIG=129l6bs1r/M=332618.5923862.6999529.2152211/D=groups/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1107116648/A=2535374/R=0/SIG=142trf8s4/*http://children.780net.com/qry/CICHildselect.taf?_function=childSearch&ETTFMRS_BHST_ID=872&s=f&hostName=Children%20> · Click Here to meet a Girl <http://us.ard./SIG=129l6bs1r/M=332618.5923862.6999529.2152211/D=groups/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1107116648/A=2535374/R=1/SIG=142trf8s4/*http://children.780net.com/qry/CICHildselect.taf?_function=childSearch&ETTFMRS_BHST_ID=872&s=f&hostName=Children%20> And Give Her Hope · Click Here to meet a Boy <http://us.ard./SIG=129l6bs1r/M=332618.5923862.6999529.2152211/D=groups/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1107116648/A=2535374/R=2/SIG=1424c63em/*http://children.780net.com/qry/CICHildselect.taf?_function=childSearch&ETTFMRS_BHST_ID=871&s=m&hostName=Children%20> And Change His Life Learn More <http://us.ard./SIG=129l6bs1r/M=332618.5923862.6999529.2152211/D=groups/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1107116648/A=2535374/R=3/SIG=1424c63em/*http://children.780net.com/qry/CICHildselect.taf?_function=childSearch&ETTFMRS_BHST_ID=871&s=m&hostName=Children%20> / <?subject=Un> Terms of Service <> . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Dear Sadhaks, Gain of the sadhana is that we progress towards our defined goal. To reach God, we have to become God, that is we have to imbibe all the qualities we ascribe to God! So while doing Sadhana, our evil tendencies and undesirable qualities must change and these do change. Measurement at physical level. What do we consider as physical level? If it relates to body, then there may or may not be any noticibale changes. As shree Maa says, one does not grow horns when they spiritually advance. Inner changes however do occur. For one, power of discrimination sharpens, and Peace within increases. What used to rattle us before, no longer affects our equanamity. Love for every living thing grows. I am sure all of us have noticed it within us while doing Sadhana. Jai Maa Chetan , Grace Green <gmgreen108@w...> wrote: > Dear Ardis and Muktimaa...an admirable goal...count me in. > Grace > On 30/01/2005, at 6:23 AM, muktimaa wrote: > > > > > > > , Ardis Jackson <ardis1@v...> wrote: > > > > "The person who is known as Ardis is of little concern to me. > > All "i" want to be is a loving child of God who spreads that > > Divine > > Love around as much as possible and dwells with God as much as > > possible." > > > > Jai Maa! YES! YES! YES!!!!!! :<) This is the bottem line for 'me',as > > well! i bow to you, dear Ardis! Let us all be Divine Lovers! > > Jai Maa! Jai Swamiji! Jai Ramakrishna Deva! > > > > muktimaa > > > > > > > I do not feel that the purpose of sadhana is to ³gain or > > lose² > > anything on > > > the gross level. Swamiji always told me to have discrimination > > which is > > > looking at each of my thoughts, actions and responses to see if > > they are > > > getting me closer to my goal (God-Union ) or farther away. Maa > > told me that > > > I would come to a crossroads where I could choose happiness or > > peace and to > > > always choose peace. > > > > > > As for measuring... I see my Gurus as my measuring rod. > > > > > > Their example shows us the Goal and the way to the Goal (they are > > not really > > > separate). > > > > > > The person who is known as Ardis is of little concern to me. All > > ³i² want > > > to be is a loving child of God who spreads that Divine Love around > > as much > > > as possible and dwells with God as much as possible. > > > > > > Jai Maa > > > > > > > > > on 1/29/05 9:40 AM, Nanda at chandimaakijai wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > My thanks to all that responded to the question. And I have more > > > > questions at the end of this long post > > > > > > > > A brief recap of your responses > > > > > > > > Manoj: > > > > > > > > In all honesty and in my own experience, I think spiritual sadhana > > > > DOES NOT HAVE TO HAVE a direct impact on any external quality you > > > > may possess .... But, spiritual sadhana MUST HAVE a direct > > impact > > > > on your spiritual progress. > > > > > > > > =========================================== > > > > Brian : > > > > Who you are never changes even if you perform sadhana. > > > > > > > > Who you think you are changes constantly, and sadhana removes that > > > > confusion. > > > > ================================================= > > > > Muktimaa : > > > > if we are sincere in our Sadhana, with love in our heart, it most > > > > definitely impacts our personality. It may not be apparent at > > first, > > > > but if we have 'fallen in love' with our Sadhana, gradually our > > > > personalities will undergo a change." ..hopefully it would most > > > > certainly make an impatient person more patient > > > > =========================================== > > > > Grace : > > > > I am not so sure about the personality changes that do or do not > > > > occur. > > > > ============================================ > > > > Steve : > > > > It depends entirely on what sadhana you are doing." > > > > > > > > If you are doing self-inquiry, or abiding as THAT, etc., you might > > > > go through some very profound spiritual experiences, and at > > moments > > > > be very peaceful, but the personal hang-ups remain unchanged and > > > > will rise up again during stress. > > > > ======================================== > > > > Ardis : > > > > > > > > Being in the presence of God purifies the dross elements of the > > > > personality. > > > > ====================================================== > > > > > > > > > > > > So now my followup > > > > > > > > Brian - you stated the purpose of sadhana in a very concise and > > > > crisp way. My question is regarding the part "sadhana removes > > > > confusion" > > > > > > > > What happens during that time when our confusions are removed - > > when > > > > veil after veil of ignorance is being removed. How does it show up > > > > on us ? > > > > > > > > Manoj - you said "spiritual sadhana MUST HAVE a direct impact on > > > > your spiritual progress...." but "DOES NOT HAVE TO HAVE a direct > > > > impact on any external quality " > > > > > > > > Can you define spiritual progress .... and how is it different > > from > > > > any external quality as "overcoming anger" etc > > > > > > > > Steve - you said ".... personal hang-ups remain unchanged and will > > > > rise up again during stress...." > > > > What is the purpose of such sadhana if personal hang-ups remain > > > > unchanged and show up during stress ? Is sadhana for temporary > > > > relief ? > > > > > > > > I guess my question is .... WHAT DO WE HOPE TO GAIN OR LOSE BY > > DOING > > > > SADHANA ? AND HOW CAN WE MEASURE AT A PHYSICAL LEVEL THE CHANGES > > > > THAT HAPPEN BECAUSE OF SADHANA ? > > > > > > > > > > > > I look forward to your responses. > > > > > > > > Thank you all > > > > > > > > Signing off > > > > Barbara Walters Nanda > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Children International > > > > Would you give Hope to a Child in need? > > > > > > > > > > <http://us.ard./SIG=129e8re2b/M=332618.5923862.6999529.21522 1 > > 1/D=grou > > > > > > ps/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1107106960/A=2535374/R=0/SIG=142trf8s4/*http:/ / > > children > > > > .780net.com/qry/CICHildselect.taf? > > _function=childSearch&ETTFMRS_BHST_ID=872&s= > > > > f&hostName=Children%20> > > > > > > > > · Click Here to meet a Girl > > > > > > <http://us.ard./SIG=129e8re2b/M=332618.5923862.6999529.21522 1 > > 1/D=grou > > > > > > ps/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1107106960/A=2535374/R=1/SIG=142trf8s4/*http:/ / > > children > > > > .780net.com/qry/CICHildselect.taf? > > _function=childSearch&ETTFMRS_BHST_ID=872&s= > > > > f&hostName=Children%20> > > > > And Give Her Hope > > > > > > > > · Click Here to meet a Boy > > > > > > <http://us.ard./SIG=129e8re2b/M=332618.5923862.6999529.21522 1 > > 1/D=grou > > > > > > ps/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1107106960/A=2535374/R=2/SIG=1424c63em/*http:/ / > > children > > > > .780net.com/qry/CICHildselect.taf? > > _function=childSearch&ETTFMRS_BHST_ID=871&s= > > > > m&hostName=Children%20> > > > > And Change His Life > > > > > > > > > > > > Learn More > > > > > > <http://us.ard./SIG=129e8re2b/M=332618.5923862.6999529.21522 1 > > 1/D=grou > > > > > > ps/S=1705075991:HM/EXP=1107106960/A=2535374/R=3/SIG=1424c63em/*http:/ / > > children > > > > .780net.com/qry/CICHildselect.taf? > > _function=childSearch&ETTFMRS_BHST_ID=871&s= > > > > m&hostName=Children%20> > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > * > > > > * / > > > > * > > > > * > > > > * > > > > <? > > subject=Un> > > > > * > > > > * Terms of > > Service > > > > <> . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > Children International > > > > Would you give Hope to a Child in need? > > > > > > <332170_011805_newchildforemail.jpg> > > > > · > > Click Here to meet a Girl > > And Give Her Hope > > > > · > > Click Here to meet a Boy > > And Change His Life > > > > Learn More > > > > <l.gif> > > > > Links > > > > • > > / > > > > • > > > > > > • Terms of > > Service. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 In a message dated 1/29/05 10:45:12 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, chandimaakijai writes: Dear All,My thanks to all that responded to the question. And I have more questions at the end of this long post Om Namah Sivaya Oops, late for take 1. So here goes. My formal introduction to meditation and sadhana via the Guru was to be the being of myself. Individual awareness, not the personality. Of course there is a me or i which others identify with that would be described as a personality ( ask my wife :>) or children ). One of the meditative practices is to review the day each evening and determine if all interactions with others was done with love and understanding. With Love Kanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 Hi Nanda That is another good question. That sadhana we are talking about is imbalanced. It easily leads to nihilism. It provides an assurance, in that, certain mysteries are cleared up. But without some positive transformation of the person ... something important is missing! That being said! Troubles can always surface. En Garde! Be Vigilant! Peace is for those who yearn it and earn it. steve Steve - you said ".... personal hang-ups remain unchanged and will rise up again during stress...." What is the purpose of such sadhana if personal hang-ups remain unchanged and show up during stress ? Is sadhana for temporary relief ? , "Nanda" <chandimaakijai> wrote: > > > Dear All, > My thanks to all that responded to the question. And I have more > questions at the end of this long post > > A brief recap of your responses > > Manoj: > > In all honesty and in my own experience, I think spiritual sadhana > DOES NOT HAVE TO HAVE a direct impact on any external quality you > may possess .... But, spiritual sadhana MUST HAVE a direct impact > on your spiritual progress. > > =========================================== > Brian : > Who you are never changes even if you perform sadhana. > > Who you think you are changes constantly, and sadhana removes that > confusion. > ================================================= > Muktimaa : > if we are sincere in our Sadhana, with love in our heart, it most > definitely impacts our personality. It may not be apparent at first, > but if we have 'fallen in love' with our Sadhana, gradually our > personalities will undergo a change." ..hopefully it would most > certainly make an impatient person more patient > =========================================== > Grace : > I am not so sure about the personality changes that do or do not > occur. > ============================================ > Steve : > It depends entirely on what sadhana you are doing." > > If you are doing self-inquiry, or abiding as THAT, etc., you might > go through some very profound spiritual experiences, and at moments > be very peaceful, but the personal hang-ups remain unchanged and > will rise up again during stress. > ======================================== > Ardis : > > Being in the presence of God purifies the dross elements of the > personality. > ====================================================== > > > So now my followup > > Brian - you stated the purpose of sadhana in a very concise and > crisp way. My question is regarding the part "sadhana removes > confusion" > > What happens during that time when our confusions are removed - when > veil after veil of ignorance is being removed. How does it show up > on us ? > > Manoj - you said "spiritual sadhana MUST HAVE a direct impact on > your spiritual progress...." but "DOES NOT HAVE TO HAVE a direct > impact on any external quality " > > Can you define spiritual progress .... and how is it different from > any external quality as "overcoming anger" etc > > Steve - you said ".... personal hang-ups remain unchanged and will > rise up again during stress...." > What is the purpose of such sadhana if personal hang-ups remain > unchanged and show up during stress ? Is sadhana for temporary > relief ? > > I guess my question is .... WHAT DO WE HOPE TO GAIN OR LOSE BY DOING > SADHANA ? AND HOW CAN WE MEASURE AT A PHYSICAL LEVEL THE CHANGES > THAT HAPPEN BECAUSE OF SADHANA ? > > > I look forward to your responses. > > Thank you all > > Signing off > Barbara Walters Nanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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