Guest guest Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Dear Nanda, Can you ask Swamiji why so many Gurus insist on loyality and either state explicitly or implicitly that without this you cannot progress on the spiritual path. Jai Maa and Jai Swamiji Grace On 25/02/2005, at 5:08 PM, Nanda wrote: > > > Question from Christine Radha: > Can one have two Satgurus ? I am drawn to both Ammachi and Shree Maa. > > Swamiji's response: > Yes. > > Question from Nanda: > Is the Guru-Disciple relationship cultivated based on disciple doing > the sadhana prescribed by the Guru ? Can someone do another sadhana > that they feel drawn to and consider you as their Guru ? For > example , some people are intimidated by sanskrit chanting but may > be drawn to silent meditation or a mantra that they received from > someone else. Can they consider you as their Guru ? Thank you for > your time. > > Swamiji's response: > Yes. A guru is an example of a quality or attitude we want to > practice and perfect in our lives. That will be our sadhana. It does > not need to be the sadhana of the Guru. In most cases it is not. It > is the attitude of the Guru. > > It may be the attitude of discipline. It may be the attitude of > compassion or love or any other bhava which the Guru exemplifies. It > may be the way She cooks or writes or maybe we can't explain it. > > > > Sponsor > > > <22305_0205_016_b_300250_a.gif> > <l.gif> > > Links > > • > / > > • > > > • Terms of > Service. > > Attachment: (text/enriched) [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 1. nanda thank u for asking swamiji that question which has been on my mind for quite some time now. 2. swamiji thank you for your illuminating and liberating response. jai maaaaaaa! , "Nanda" <chandimaakijai> wrote: > > > Question from Christine Radha: > Can one have two Satgurus ? I am drawn to both Ammachi and Shree Maa. > > Swamiji's response: > Yes. > > Question from Nanda: > Is the Guru-Disciple relationship cultivated based on disciple doing > the sadhana prescribed by the Guru ? Can someone do another sadhana > that they feel drawn to and consider you as their Guru ? For > example , some people are intimidated by sanskrit chanting but may > be drawn to silent meditation or a mantra that they received from > someone else. Can they consider you as their Guru ? Thank you for > your time. > > Swamiji's response: > Yes. A guru is an example of a quality or attitude we want to > practice and perfect in our lives. That will be our sadhana. It does > not need to be the sadhana of the Guru. In most cases it is not. It > is the attitude of the Guru. > > It may be the attitude of discipline. It may be the attitude of > compassion or love or any other bhava which the Guru exemplifies. It > may be the way She cooks or writes or maybe we can't explain it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 In a message dated 2/25/05 11:33:32 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, brian (AT) soulspark (DOT) org writes: Remember what I said in my other post. Our test is to see Guruconsciousness in that apparently imperfect form. They are saints who mayhave been clouded by egoic identity or by the karma they have chosen forthemselves. But they are still God and we should treat them as they are.If we worship them, if we exemplify the perfect devotee, then they have nochoice but to exemplify God consciousness. Namaste Brian, Right on. Om Namah Sivaya Kanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Jai Maa and thanks for the explaination .... I have met and leart from at least 7 gurus but due to me affinity to prayers / readings I always found myself at home with Shree Maa / Swamiji. Like Swamiji was saying that its the Bhava that you see is more important and that's what you have to learn. I have lots of collection of medias / books from almost all of them - I do enjoy all of them. Personally I never feel conflict at all but the other groups DO try to influence one versus other. I spent 10+ years with Shree Maa and done prayers/reading for 20+ years ... I met Ammachi in San Ramon, CA in 1998 and I spent 4-5 years with Her - I loved her but then soon I realized that my life long sadhanas / methods started disappearing slowly - leading me into confusion but I still love and miss my regular Sadhanas and peace/bliss associated with it. Lots of CSo methods and followers can create conflict if one doesn't have true Satsangha! [All about Sanatani Maya or the regular Sansari Maya] As one may have heard - We all need Buddha, Dharma and Satsangha - in absense of one One should be able to rely on other method! Reminds me of silly but nice poem/song --- "...lean on me, we all need some one to lean on! ..." --- Spirituality is everywhere, it depends upon if someone puts blinders or opens the window of your Soul - you can say third eye of Wisdom - Jai Chandi Maa Namaste Dilip , "Nanda" <chandimaakijai> wrote: > > > Question from Christine Radha: > Can one have two Satgurus ? I am drawn to both Ammachi and Shree Maa. > > Swamiji's response: > Yes. > > Question from Nanda: > Is the Guru-Disciple relationship cultivated based on disciple doing > the sadhana prescribed by the Guru ? Can someone do another sadhana > that they feel drawn to and consider you as their Guru ? For > example , some people are intimidated by sanskrit chanting but may > be drawn to silent meditation or a mantra that they received from > someone else. Can they consider you as their Guru ? Thank you for > your time. > > Swamiji's response: > Yes. A guru is an example of a quality or attitude we want to > practice and perfect in our lives. That will be our sadhana. It does > not need to be the sadhana of the Guru. In most cases it is not. It > is the attitude of the Guru. > > It may be the attitude of discipline. It may be the attitude of > compassion or love or any other bhava which the Guru exemplifies. It > may be the way She cooks or writes or maybe we can't explain it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Is the guru insisting on loyalty to God, or to their ego? Find the intention of what they say and you'll have your answer. Once, at the Mandir someone asked Swamiji, "Why do so many attained holy men and women come from India and other places to the US only to fall from their high state because of all the temptation here?" (that's a paraphrase of the question by the way) Here's a paraphrase of Swamiji's answer: "Because they come here as High Guru. Placing themselves up so high above others that there is only one way they can go, down." He continued, "if a person comes here as an equal and expresses himself as an equal he cannot fall, there is no place to fall." Remember what I said in my other post. Our test is to see Guru consciousness in that apparently imperfect form. They are saints who may have been clouded by egoic identity or by the karma they have chosen for themselves. But they are still God and we should treat them as they are. If we worship them, if we exemplify the perfect devotee, then they have no choice but to exemplify God consciousness. The best way to bring out the best in people is to be devoted to the consciousness within them. This is even more true for Saints, because they are more thinly veiled by Maya and thus we can reach them more easilly. Great question, thanks for asking. Brian > Dear Nanda, > Can you ask Swamiji why so many Gurus insist on loyality and either > state explicitly or implicitly > that without this you cannot progress on the spiritual path. > Jai Maa and Jai Swamiji > Grace > > On 25/02/2005, at 5:08 PM, Nanda wrote: > >> >> >> Question from Christine Radha: >> Can one have two Satgurus ? I am drawn to both Ammachi and Shree Maa. >> >> Swamiji's response: >> Yes. >> >> Question from Nanda: >> Is the Guru-Disciple relationship cultivated based on disciple doing >> the sadhana prescribed by the Guru ? Can someone do another sadhana >> that they feel drawn to and consider you as their Guru ? For >> example , some people are intimidated by sanskrit chanting but may >> be drawn to silent meditation or a mantra that they received from >> someone else. Can they consider you as their Guru ? Thank you for >> your time. >> >> Swamiji's response: >> Yes. A guru is an example of a quality or attitude we want to >> practice and perfect in our lives. That will be our sadhana. It does >> not need to be the sadhana of the Guru. In most cases it is not. It >> is the attitude of the Guru. >> >> It may be the attitude of discipline. It may be the attitude of >> compassion or love or any other bhava which the Guru exemplifies. It >> may be the way She cooks or writes or maybe we can't explain it. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sponsor >> >> >> <22305_0205_016_b_300250_a.gif> >> <l.gif> >> >> Links >> >> • >> / >> >> • >> >> >> • Terms of >> Service. >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Swamiji had already clarified that we can have more than one Guru. It is said that Shri Bhagavan Dattatreya who is the founder of the oldest Guru lineages had 24 gurus. You can read about the Gurus here in this article by Swami Sivananda. " He learnt wisdom from whatever source it came. All seekers after wisdom should follow the example of Dattatreya." http://www.divyajivan.org/articles/siva/Dattatreya_siva.htm Jai MAA !!! , brian@s... wrote: > > Is the guru insisting on loyalty to God, or to their ego? > > Find the intention of what they say and you'll have your answer. > > Once, at the Mandir someone asked Swamiji, "Why do so many attained holy > men and women come from India and other places to the US only to fall > from their high state because of all the temptation here?" > > (that's a paraphrase of the question by the way) > > Here's a paraphrase of Swamiji's answer: > > "Because they come here as High Guru. Placing themselves up so high above > others that there is only one way they can go, down." > > He continued, "if a person comes here as an equal and expresses himself as > an equal he cannot fall, there is no place to fall." > > Remember what I said in my other post. Our test is to see Guru > consciousness in that apparently imperfect form. They are saints who may > have been clouded by egoic identity or by the karma they have chosen for > themselves. But they are still God and we should treat them as they are. > If we worship them, if we exemplify the perfect devotee, then they have no > choice but to exemplify God consciousness. > > The best way to bring out the best in people is to be devoted to the > consciousness within them. This is even more true for Saints, because they > are more thinly veiled by Maya and thus we can reach them more easilly. > > Great question, thanks for asking. > > Brian > > > Dear Nanda, > > Can you ask Swamiji why so many Gurus insist on loyality and either > > state explicitly or implicitly > > that without this you cannot progress on the spiritual path. > > Jai Maa and Jai Swamiji > > Grace > > > > On 25/02/2005, at 5:08 PM, Nanda wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> Question from Christine Radha: > >> Can one have two Satgurus ? I am drawn to both Ammachi and Shree Maa. > >> > >> Swamiji's response: > >> Yes. > >> > >> Question from Nanda: > >> Is the Guru-Disciple relationship cultivated based on disciple doing > >> the sadhana prescribed by the Guru ? Can someone do another sadhana > >> that they feel drawn to and consider you as their Guru ? For > >> example , some people are intimidated by sanskrit chanting but may > >> be drawn to silent meditation or a mantra that they received from > >> someone else. Can they consider you as their Guru ? Thank you for > >> your time. > >> > >> Swamiji's response: > >> Yes. A guru is an example of a quality or attitude we want to > >> practice and perfect in our lives. That will be our sadhana. It does > >> not need to be the sadhana of the Guru. In most cases it is not. It > >> is the attitude of the Guru. > >> > >> It may be the attitude of discipline. It may be the attitude of > >> compassion or love or any other bhava which the Guru exemplifies. It > >> may be the way She cooks or writes or maybe we can't explain it. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Sponsor > >> > >> > >> <22305_0205_016_b_300250_a.gif> > >> <l.gif> > >> > >> Links > >> > >> • > >> / > >> > >> • > >> > >> > >> • Terms of > >> Service. > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 brian (AT) soulspark (DOT) org wrote: [snipped] If we worship them, if we exemplify the perfect devotee, then they have no choice but to exemplify God consciousness. But what if their ego has become such that they don't see it? I mean, what if you do worship them and they don't exemplify God consciousness but rather just see that act of devotion as what things are supposed to be? Isn't there a 'danger' that the disciple will have blind devotion and enable the behavior? I hope this question makes sense. -- Be Love,<br> Egyirba 3 1 2005-02-18T04:02:00Z 2005-02-18T04:04:00Z 1 6 36 Arkansas State University 1 1 41 11.6360 Clean Clean false false false w:UseAsianBreakRules/> MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} Be Love, Berijoy http://www.egyirba.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 The example I try to follow is from my friend Nandu. His approach to life is so child like, its simply beautiful. When anything happens that seems bad or good, hard or easy, up or down (etc.) He just laughs and asks, "What are you doing now Maa?" Another lesson Nandu taught me very recently is that the picture of RamaKrishna where he is posing next to a podium looking deeply into the camera, he is not looking at us or the photographer, he is looking at Maa. He is seeing her in the camera, on the film, within and without the photographer. That is the ideal devotee. The questions I ask myself when I see the Jerry Falwells (oh my God, Fall Well what a name!) of the world is this, "Why do I care that he seems so plastic and fake? Why do I judge him to be false when in reality he is also Maa in disguise?" The answer is straight forward, my ego resents his egos apparent power over people. When ever there is discord it is because the egoic mind does not accept that which is. (That's a quote from "The Power of Now" or at least a paraphrase) There are people who do not know and who do not know that they do not know. A spiritualist simply knows he does not know. Not really much of a difference and certainly no basis for an upturned nose. We are all saints and we are all devotees. Everyone is God and everyone is devoted to God. This place is all about God playing with God while forgetting Herself. Maya's job is to make us forget God. She's very good at it. However, once we begin to see Maya as God, then she's got quite a dilemna doesn't she? "How can I fool those who see Goddess in me" She asks herself. The answer is that she cranks up the skill level. She makes it harder for us to see her by presenting us with those who would threaten us or try to manipulate us, those who would press our fear buttons. She presents us with people who pretend to know and use people. She presents us with people whose karma is such that they will know and then forget. This is what she does to get us back into our egos, to forget Her. The irony is, the more extreme She has to get, the easier it is for us to realize what She is doing. There is a great risk we will forget falling very hard, but there is also a huge risk from her perspective that her gamble will fail and We'll become realized. These so called fallen Gurus are simply those who forgot because Maya tricked them. She gave them understanding and wisdom and then tricked them into identification with the egoic identity of the "Great Teacher." They can't be blamed that they forgot, its the nature of Her game. They are still God, as we all are, they just forgot what the definition of God is and now believe that the little me is God or something to that effect. And now she is using them to test your devotedness to a truth that you found through them and then felt you lost because the Guru appears to have fallen. Where does your Faith come from? From the man or from the Guru? Don't believe in the man. Believe in the God within the man. Base your love not on how the man behaves but on the light of the man's soul. Be devoted to the truth. Be devoted to the light. Worship the light within him. Bow before the consiousness of Goddess within him. Be that way with everyone, Self proclaimed Guru, friend, stranger, beggar and family member. When someone is rude be like Nandu, think to yourself, "Oh Maa, you are so funny! What are you up to now?" By seeing Maa in that moment you are maintaining awareness of her and thus preventing yourself from forgetting for the moment who you are. You are Goddess. I worship you. I bow to your jewel encrusted feet. I wash your feet in milk, yogurt and ghee. I love you with all my heart and soul. You are my wife, you are my mother, you are my neighbor, and you are my friend. Teach me oh master to realize thy truth. What is your lesson for this moment? I bow to your infinite awareness. I bow to your wisdom. I bow. I bow. ********************************************************************* One last story. Ramana Maharishi, A Saint who lived around the turn of twentieth century, had a very powerful presense, as all saints do. When I read about him through the eyes of some of his devotees, I wondered how it is that he has the ability to project so much peace. I mean, how does he and Shree Maa do it? Now, because of your question I understand. If a person looks around and all they see is God, then God is all that looks back on them. This is how Goddess permeates us through the attained masters and why being in their presence raises our awareness. Maa is the most bestest teacher ever! And thankfully I'm finally learning. Thank you so much for teaching me Mother Berijoy! I bow I bow. > > > brian wrote: > >> [snipped] >> If we worship them, if we exemplify the perfect devotee, then they have >> no >> >> choice but to exemplify God consciousness. >> > > But what if their ego has become such that they don't see it? I mean, > what if you do worship them and they don't exemplify God consciousness > but rather just see that act of devotion as what things are supposed to > be? Isn't there a 'danger' that the disciple will have blind devotion > and enable the behavior? I hope this question makes sense. > > > -- > > Be Love, > > Berijoy > > http://www.egyirba.net > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Dear Berijoy, Your question does make sence and it is what is meant when the scriptures say that we must have discrimination. We must test all . It is a matter of consistently having faith in the essence of all and yet always keeping our eyes and mind open. Jai Maa and Jai Swamiji Grace On 26/02/2005, at 6:45 AM, Berijoy wrote: > > > brian wrote: > > [snipped] > If we worship them, if we exemplify the perfect devotee, then they > have no > > > choice but to exemplify God consciousness. > > > > But what if their ego has become such that they don't see it? I mean, > what if you do worship them and they don't exemplify God consciousness > but rather just see that act of devotion as what things are supposed > to be? Isn't there a 'danger' that the disciple will have blind > devotion and enable the behavior? I hope this question makes sense. > > > > > -- > > Be Love, > > Berijoy > > http://www.egyirba.net > > > > Sponsor > > > <22305_0205_016_b_300250_a.gif> > <l.gif> > > Links > > • > / > > • > > > • Terms of > Service. > > Attachment: (text/enriched) [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Namaste, beloved family, The wisdom in Brians post is so deep, so real, so pure, and so filled with Maa's Divine Voice...that i am very much choked up... Jai Maa! Jai Swamiji! Jai Ramakrishna Deva! i bow to You! muktimaa -- In , brian@s... wrote: > > The example I try to follow is from my friend Nandu. His approach to life > is so child like, its simply beautiful. When anything happens that seems > bad or good, hard or easy, up or down (etc.) He just laughs and asks, > "What are you doing now Maa?" > > Another lesson Nandu taught me very recently is that the picture of > RamaKrishna where he is posing next to a podium looking deeply into the > camera, he is not looking at us or the photographer, he is looking at Maa. > He is seeing her in the camera, on the film, within and without the > photographer. That is the ideal devotee. > > The questions I ask myself when I see the Jerry Falwells (oh my God, Fall > Well what a name!) of the world is this, "Why do I care that he seems so > plastic and fake? Why do I judge him to be false when in reality he is > also Maa in disguise?" > > The answer is straight forward, my ego resents his egos apparent power > over people. > > When ever there is discord it is because the egoic mind does not accept > that which is. (That's a quote from "The Power of Now" or at least a > paraphrase) > > There are people who do not know and who do not know that they do not > know. A spiritualist simply knows he does not know. Not really much of a > difference and certainly no basis for an upturned nose. > > We are all saints and we are all devotees. Everyone is God and everyone is > devoted to God. This place is all about God playing with God while > forgetting Herself. > > Maya's job is to make us forget God. She's very good at it. However, once > we begin to see Maya as God, then she's got quite a dilemna doesn't she? > "How can I fool those who see Goddess in me" She asks herself. The answer > is that she cranks up the skill level. She makes it harder for us to see > her by presenting us with those who would threaten us or try to manipulate > us, those who would press our fear buttons. She presents us with people > who pretend to know and use people. She presents us with people whose > karma is such that they will know and then forget. This is what she does > to get us back into our egos, to forget Her. > > The irony is, the more extreme She has to get, the easier it is for us to > realize what She is doing. There is a great risk we will forget falling > very hard, but there is also a huge risk from her perspective that her > gamble will fail and We'll become realized. > > These so called fallen Gurus are simply those who forgot because Maya > tricked them. She gave them understanding and wisdom and then tricked them > into identification with the egoic identity of the "Great Teacher." They > can't be blamed that they forgot, its the nature of Her game. They are > still God, as we all are, they just forgot what the definition of God is > and now believe that the little me is God or something to that effect. > > And now she is using them to test your devotedness to a truth that you > found through them and then felt you lost because the Guru appears to have > fallen. Where does your Faith come from? From the man or from the Guru? > > Don't believe in the man. Believe in the God within the man. Base your > love not on how the man behaves but on the light of the man's soul. > > Be devoted to the truth. Be devoted to the light. Worship the light within > him. Bow before the consiousness of Goddess within him. Be that way with > everyone, Self proclaimed Guru, friend, stranger, beggar and family > member. > > When someone is rude be like Nandu, think to yourself, "Oh Maa, you are so > funny! What are you up to now?" By seeing Maa in that moment you are > maintaining awareness of her and thus preventing yourself from forgetting > for the moment who you are. > > You are Goddess. > > I worship you. > > I bow to your jewel encrusted feet. > > I wash your feet in milk, yogurt and ghee. > > I love you with all my heart and soul. > > You are my wife, you are my mother, you are my neighbor, and you are my > friend. > > Teach me oh master to realize thy truth. What is your lesson for this moment? > > I bow to your infinite awareness. I bow to your wisdom. I bow. I bow. > > ********************************************************************* > > One last story. > > Ramana Maharishi, A Saint who lived around the turn of twentieth century, > had a very powerful presense, as all saints do. > > When I read about him through the eyes of some of his devotees, I wondered > how it is that he has the ability to project so much peace. I mean, how > does he and Shree Maa do it? > > Now, because of your question I understand. > > If a person looks around and all they see is God, then God is all that > looks back on them. This is how Goddess permeates us through the attained > masters and why being in their presence raises our awareness. > > Maa is the most bestest teacher ever! And thankfully I'm finally learning. > > Thank you so much for teaching me Mother Berijoy! > > I bow I bow. > > > > > > > brian@s... wrote: > > > >> [snipped] > >> If we worship them, if we exemplify the perfect devotee, then they have > >> no > >> > >> choice but to exemplify God consciousness. > >> > > > > But what if their ego has become such that they don't see it? I mean, > > what if you do worship them and they don't exemplify God consciousness > > but rather just see that act of devotion as what things are supposed to > > be? Isn't there a 'danger' that the disciple will have blind devotion > > and enable the behavior? I hope this question makes sense. > > > > > > -- > > > > Be Love, > > > > Berijoy > > > > http://www.egyirba.net > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 oh! how i wish i had nandu's perspective! -- In , brian@s... wrote: > > The example I try to follow is from my friend Nandu. His approach to life > is so child like, its simply beautiful. When anything happens that seems > bad or good, hard or easy, up or down (etc.) He just laughs and asks, > "What are you doing now Maa?" -- Be Love,<br> Egyirba 3 1 2005-02-18T04:02:00Z 2005-02-18T04:04:00Z 1 6 36 Arkansas State University 1 1 41 11.6360 Clean Clean false false false w:UseAsianBreakRules/> MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} Be Love, Berijoy http://www.egyirba.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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