What I know for sure---

[Guest guest]

"The earth is a very difficult place to live," says Shree Maa in

Before Becoming This (page 58.) I would most definitely agree and

not just because Maa is a saint and knows what she is talking about.

I agree because it is so hard to "wake up." I'm a big sleepyhead!

Can't you all feel how hard it is? Maa says "there is so much

duality here." Ain't it the truth! Maa further states that the

earth earth is 90% duality. "Of all the planets with human life,

this planet has the most duality."

 

What I know for sure---

Duality is a tough nut to

crack.Do You

?

 

[Guest guest]

, Loving Maa <om_and_amen> wrote:

> Maa says "there is so much duality here." Ain't it the truth! Maa

> further states that the earth earth is 90% duality. "Of all the

> planets with human life, this planet has the most duality."

>

> What I know for sure---

> Duality is a tough nut to crack.

 

I agree with your conclusion - duality is a tough nut to crack.

 

But I am writing this because the sentence above that piqued my

interest.

 

"Of all the planets with human life, this planet has the most duality."

 

1. Did Shree Maa say this? In the book?

 

2. What exactly does tyhat mean? I thought the entire universe, much

less just the earth, was a manifestation of the One Reality, and hence

all of it was 100% duality! (What is real can't be manifested; what is

manifested is not real).

 

So this statement (which I don't disagree with yet) causes this

conflict in my head that needs to be resolved.

 

Anyone can take answer this q. But Nanda, do you mind asking Maa and/or

Swamiji also?

 

Jai Ma!

[Guest guest]

loving maa,

your words echo the

sentiments of my mind and heart.

> doing everything. My search is

based on distant learning through

> books and passed-on information, a dash of faith, a lot of hope, a

> trust that there must be a higher power

but it sure is inscrutable.

sure does seem that way.

> And all the wishing, praying,

hoping, dreaming, planning doesn't

> bring forth any surety. Either I am a total rock impervious to

God's

> ten footsteps (you know, you take one S/he takes ten), blind to

the

> divinity around me or what? Am I too low, too stupid, too cynical?

i wonder this of myself.

> What I know for sure--- Maa is right.

Earth is a tough planet.

and somedays i am sure

i don't want to return again...

--

Be Love,

Berijoy

[Guest guest]

You asked two questions. I can answer one for sure. Yes. "Of all

the planets with human life, this planet has the most duality" is a

direct quote from the book Before Becoming This, page 58, third

paragraph. Shree Maa is speaking to Steven Newmark.

 

What I know for sure---

I can't answer question two!

 

, "manoj_menon" <ammasmon@s...>

wrote:

>

> But I am writing this because the sentence above that piqued my

> interest.

>

> "Of all the planets with human life, this planet has the most

duality."

>

> 1. Did Shree Maa say this? In the book?

>

> 2. What exactly does tyhat mean? I thought the entire universe,

much

> less just the earth, was a manifestation of the One Reality, and

hence

> all of it was 100% duality! (What is real can't be manifested;

what is

> manifested is not real).

>

> So this statement (which I don't disagree with yet) causes this

> conflict in my head that needs to be resolved.

>

> Anyone can take answer this q. But Nanda, do you mind asking Maa

and/or

> Swamiji also?

>

> Jai Ma!

[Guest guest]

Berijoy, thank you for getting me. I've been reading this group

since it started, and I have been on the path (or a path) in this

lifetime, since way little. As Ardis stated about herself, I have

had many, many teachers. I am not "there" and sometimes it makes me

wanna spit nails. With no offence intended to all well-wishers and

all gratitude to them, it is not human solace I seek. Been there,

done that, heard enough pep talks for one lifetime, know how to do

quite a few of many complicated rituals, love them all...but...

 

What I know for suree---

I want God-Gimme God-Gotta have God-I know-I'm God-So Wake me up, Me!

 

, Berijoy <berijoy> wrote:

> loving maa,

>

>

> your words echo the sentiments of my mind and heart.

>

>

> > doing everything. My search is based on distant learning through

> > books and passed-on information, a dash of faith, a lot of

hope, a

>

> > trust that there must be a higher power but it sure is

inscrutable.

>

>

> sure does seem that way.

>

>

> > And all the wishing, praying, hoping, dreaming, planning doesn't

> > bring forth any surety. Either I am a total rock impervious to

God's

> > ten footsteps (you know, you take one S/he takes ten), blind to

the

> > divinity around me or what? Am I too low, too stupid, too

cynical?

>

> i wonder this of myself.

>

>

> > What I know for sure--- Maa is right. Earth is a tough planet.

>

>

> and somedays i am sure i don't want to return again...

>

>

> --

> Be Love,

> Berijoy

[Guest guest]

according the shivapuri baba, it is that innate impulse ... that cry

out to god when all else has failed ... that is most essential for a

devotee.

 

"god, i require your attention. i need to speak to your directly. no

other people, no intervention, no authority. it is You i crave, or

should i say ME. now, now, now, i must see and understand."

 

this raw impulse to GOD-TRUTH-REALITY is the basis for all the

spiritual activities.

 

steve

 

, "om_and_amen" <om_and_amen>

wrote:

>

>

> Berijoy, thank you for getting me. I've been reading this group

> since it started, and I have been on the path (or a path) in this

> lifetime, since way little. As Ardis stated about herself, I have

> had many, many teachers. I am not "there" and sometimes it makes

me

> wanna spit nails. With no offence intended to all well-wishers and

> all gratitude to them, it is not human solace I seek. Been there,

> done that, heard enough pep talks for one lifetime, know how to do

> quite a few of many complicated rituals, love them all...but...

>

> What I know for suree---

> I want God-Gimme God-Gotta have God-I know-I'm God-So Wake me up,

Me!

>

> , Berijoy <berijoy> wrote:

> > loving maa,

> >

> >

> > your words echo the sentiments of my mind and heart.

> >

> >

> > > doing everything. My search is based on distant learning

through

> > > books and passed-on information, a dash of faith, a lot of

> hope, a

> >

> > > trust that there must be a higher power but it sure is

> inscrutable.

> >

> >

> > sure does seem that way.

> >

> >

> > > And all the wishing, praying, hoping, dreaming, planning

doesn't

> > > bring forth any surety. Either I am a total rock impervious to

> God's

> > > ten footsteps (you know, you take one S/he takes ten), blind

to

> the

> > > divinity around me or what? Am I too low, too stupid, too

> cynical?

> >

> > i wonder this of myself.

> >

> >

> > > What I know for sure--- Maa is right. Earth is a tough planet.

> >

> >

> > and somedays i am sure i don't want to return again...

> >

> >

> > --

> > Be Love,

> > Berijoy

[Guest guest]

Good one, Steve.

 

 

On Apr 4, 2005, at 11:58 AM, Steve Connor wrote:

>

>

> according the shivapuri baba, it is that innate impulse ... that cry

> out to god when all else has failed ... that is most essential for a

> devotee.

>

> "god, i require your attention. i need to speak to your directly. no

> other people, no intervention, no authority. it is You i crave, or

> should i say ME. now, now, now, i must see and understand."

>

> this raw impulse to GOD-TRUTH-REALITY is the basis for all the

> spiritual activities.

>

> steve

>

> , "om_and_amen" <om_and_amen>

> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Berijoy, thank you for getting me.  I've been reading this group

> > since it started, and I have been on the path (or a path) in this

> > lifetime, since way little.  As Ardis stated about herself, I have

> > had many, many teachers.  I am not "there" and sometimes it makes

> me

> > wanna spit nails.  With no offence intended to all well-wishers and

> > all gratitude to them, it is not human solace I seek.  Been there,

> > done that, heard enough pep talks for one lifetime, know how to do

> > quite a few of many complicated rituals, love them all...but...

> >

> > What I know for suree---

> > I want God-Gimme God-Gotta have God-I know-I'm God-So Wake me up,

> Me!

> >

> > , Berijoy <berijoy> wrote:

> > > loving maa,

> > >

> > >

> > > your words echo the sentiments of my mind and heart.

> > >

> > >

> > > >  doing everything. My search is based on distant learning

> through

> > > >  books and passed-on information, a dash of faith, a lot of

> > hope, a

> > >

> > > >  trust that there must be a higher power but it sure is

> > inscrutable.

> > >

> > >

> > > sure does seem that way.

> > >

> > >

> > > >  And all the wishing, praying, hoping, dreaming, planning

> doesn't

> > > >  bring forth any surety. Either I am a total rock impervious to

> > God's

> > > >  ten footsteps (you know, you take one S/he takes ten), blind

> to

> > the

> > > >  divinity around me or what? Am I too low, too stupid, too

> > cynical?

> > >

> > > i wonder this of myself.

> > >

> > >

> > > >  What I know for sure--- Maa is right. Earth is a tough planet.

> > >

> > >

> > > and somedays i am sure i don't want to return again...

> > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > Be Love,

> > > Berijoy

>

>

>

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>

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Attachment: (text/enriched) [not stored]

[Guest guest]

i hear thee!

> What I know for suree--- I want God-Gimme God-Gotta have God-I

> know-I'm God-So Wake me up, Me!

--

Be Love,

Berijoy

http://www.egyirba.net

[Guest guest]

Manoj,

 

It's interesting stuff, huh? :-)

 

I haven't run across very much I've considered authoratative over the

years, but Swamiji makes reference to other "human" beings of

different varieties in Before Becoming This.

 

As to your question about one duality, consider the effect of being in

a temple or other holy place, or in the presence of the gurudeva. Is

the effect not one of lessening duality?

 

Consider also the yugas (ages). Swamiji smilingly, but not jokingly I

think, says that Maa is always in Satya Yuga. As you know, we are now

in Kali Yuga, which, if I understand correctly, is that age

characterized by the greatest duality. Just as Maa said. I have read

(somewhere) that in Satya Yuga (I hope I have that right) people were

essentially born jivan mukti (enlightened).

 

Swamiji had a list and basic description of the yugas on the website a

year or so ago. I read somewhere (or maybe I made it up) that there is

an interesting similarity between the procession of the yugas and the

rotation of the galaxy around the core. Like the shift from Summer to

Winter, when the warming, life-giving, rays of Surya are muted,

perhaps the same kind of operation is at work on a galactic level with

the yugas and the various worlds and the amount of subtle spiritual

energy available. The effect would be that while one world is in Kali

Yuga, another might be in Satya Yuga.

 

Chris

 

 

 

, "manoj_menon" <ammasmon@s...> wrote:

>

>

> , Loving Maa <om_and_amen> wrote:

> > Maa says "there is so much duality here." Ain't it the truth! Maa

> > further states that the earth earth is 90% duality. "Of all the

> > planets with human life, this planet has the most duality."

> >

> > What I know for sure---

> > Duality is a tough nut to crack.

>

> I agree with your conclusion - duality is a tough nut to crack.

>

> But I am writing this because the sentence above that piqued my

> interest.

>

> "Of all the planets with human life, this planet has the most duality."

>

> 1. Did Shree Maa say this? In the book?

>

> 2. What exactly does tyhat mean? I thought the entire universe, much

> less just the earth, was a manifestation of the One Reality, and hence

> all of it was 100% duality! (What is real can't be manifested; what is

> manifested is not real).

>

> So this statement (which I don't disagree with yet) causes this

> conflict in my head that needs to be resolved.

>

> Anyone can take answer this q. But Nanda, do you mind asking Maa and/or

> Swamiji also?

>

> Jai Ma!

[Guest guest]

Dear Loving Maa,

 

I hope you don't mind that I am responding to your post. I gather from

reading this thread that you don't really want any well-intentioned

replies, but if that is so, why after so long have you chosen this

particular time to post?

 

So I will endeavor to help...

 

I see that not only are you frustrated in your efforts, but that you

are having doubts as well. Well, join the club. I am the King of Doubt

and Frustration (mostly self-doubt though). I do not doubt the

existence of God or the reality of enlightenment, having tasted,

however briefly and distantly, both. But if you want to talk

frustration, I've tramped that path a lot, esp. lately.

 

As Steve said in his post, I think this frustration is a painful but

necessary part of the journey. Swami Rama wrote that the aspirant puts

everything he has into the practices and disciplines, until he reaches

the end of his efforts. At that point he cries out to God, and that

cry is parambhakti, the ultimate cry of devotion. God hears that cry

and bestows His grace.

 

All of us are different; all of us have different karmic loads,

abilities to surrender, strength of will, and character. My

frustration with God and Guru seems laughable when you compare my

pitifully small capacity to do sadhana with that of other devotees.

Yet I have certainly had my share and more of graces.

 

I don't think there is any simple answer for your situation (or mine

either). There must be a reason you have been lurking here steadily

for the past couple years. If there is any faith in you about the

divine awareness of Maa and Swamiji, perhaps if you can lay yourself

at their feet, ask their advise, then follow it, you will eventually

find that which you most desire.

 

I am reminded of a sadhu story. I apologize, this is a well know story

with actual historical people, but as is usually the case with me, I

don't remember all the details (like who they were). In any case, it

is a good story, and one that give me some measure of comfort.

 

There was a famous Swami, very devoted to Divine Mother, who spent his

days in worship, tapasya, and teaching. Finally, after many years, he

began to feel the breath of time close on his heels. His life was

nearing its end and though he was well known, respected, and had many

students, he had not attained enlightenment; he had never had the

darshan of Divine Mother he had served for so long.

 

So, one day he simply got up and left the ashram where he lived, and

all of his students, to search for someone who could help him across

that final hurdle. He wandered for some time, and everywhere he went

he was recognized for the teaching he had spent his life doing, but

nowhere did he find anyone to help him achieve enlightenment.

 

Finally, he established himself in a certain cremation ground and

began his practices there. He determined that he would remain there

until either he died, or got the darshan of Divine Mother. One night

while he was engaged in his worship a certain Master was passing and

saw the sadhu there. This Master recognized the sadhu and his dilemma

and in compassion for him determined to help him, so he waited until

the sadhu's practices were finished and introduced himself.

 

When the sadhu learned who this Master was, expressing his great

frustration, he begged the Master's help to attain enlightment. He

said," Master, all of my life have I worshipped and strove with all of

my strength. I have taught others the ways and means to achieve

enlightenment, and now as I near the end of my life I have still not

experienced it myself. Please, I know it is within your power, help me."

 

The Master replied, "Your karma is such that you will not achieve

enlightenment in this lifetime. You are prevented from doing so."

 

The sadhu begged him to allow him to see the form of his beloved

Divine Mother and give him samadhi.

 

Filled with compassion for the sadhu, the Master relented, saying,

"Very well, I will do this for you," and Divine Mother apperaed there,

in the cremation ground in all her graceful beauty.

 

For a moment the sadhu was dumbstruck with wonder, but suddenly his

face contorted with rage and he yelled at her, "What kind of a Mother

are you! All of these years of yearning after you, of serving you, and

only now do you come!" And Divine Mother vanished.

 

The sadhu sat in silence for a moment, and then he cried,"Oh what have

I done?"

 

The Master looked at him with compassion and said, "It was inevitable.

It was your karma."

 

In the place where Divine Mother had stood there now lay a fine yantra

of Her form. The Master instructed the sadhu in the worship of the

yantra, which is said to still exist even today.

 

The story as I read it contains information about the sadhu's eventual

enlightenment and death, but since I don't recall the specifics I'll

leave things as they are. In any case, I'm sure you see the parallels

with yourself.

 

May God bless you,

 

Chris

 

 

 

 

 

, Loving Maa <om_and_amen> wrote:

> Can regular people become enlightened or liberated? What is

enlightenment? There are so many elaborate systems developed to lead

one to God, but where's God? I see lots of seekers but I personally

don't know any finders. For all my years of trying and all the

detailed systems designed to help, why aren't enlightened people among

the common herd. I just get so confused. Even puja, which seems so

benign on the surface, when studied becomes this complex system of

learning and doing with tons and tons of rules or ways for doing

everything. My search is based on distant learning through books and

passed-on information, a dash of faith, a lot of hope, a trust that

there must be a higher power but it sure is inscrutable. And all the

wishing, praying, hoping, dreaming, planning doesn't bring forth any

surety. Either I am a total rock impervious to God's ten footsteps

(you know, you take one S/he takes ten), blind to the divinity around

me or what? Am I too low, too stupid, too

> cynical? What am I? And where is God (besides everywhere)?

>

> What I know for sure---

> Maa is right. Earth is a tough planet.

 

>

> Better first dates. More second dates. Personals

[Guest guest]

, "Chris Kirner"

<chriskirner1956> wrote:

>

>

> Manoj,

>

> It's interesting stuff, huh? :-)

>

> As to your question about one duality, consider the effect of

> being in a temple or other holy place, or in the presence of the

> gurudeva. Is the effect not one of lessening duality?

>

> Chris

 

 

Lessening, yes. eliminating? for a rare soul only, not for the

general populace. I am more concerned with the elimination.

Lessening produces the effect which I would call as "flavors of

duality" which are broadly identified as sattva, rajas, and tamas in

the literature.

 

The elimination aspect is where I did not understand the 90%, but if

one were to look at it from a "lessening" viewpoint, my rule of

thumb would have been around the same %age. no problems!

[Guest guest]

What I know for sure---

Sometimes my devotion is tamasic.Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > wrote:

Dear Loving Maa,I hope you don't mind that I am responding to your

post. I gather fromreading this thread that you don't really want any

well-intentionedreplies, but if that is so, why after so long have you

chosen thisparticular time to post? So I will endeavor to help...I see

that not only are you frustrated in your efforts, but that youare

having doubts as well. Well, join the club. I am the King of Doubtand

Frustration (mostly self-doubt though). I do not doubt theexistence of

God or the reality of enlightenment, having tasted,however briefly and

distantly, both. But if you want to talkfrustration, I've tramped that

path a lot, esp. lately. As Steve said in his post, I think this

frustration is a painful butnecessary part of the journey. Swami Rama

wrote that the aspirant putseverything he has into the

practices and disciplines, until he reachesthe end of his efforts. At

that point he cries out to God, and thatcry is parambhakti, the

ultimate cry of devotion. God hears that cryand bestows His grace.All

of us are different; all of us have different karmic loads,abilities

to surrender, strength of will, and character. Myfrustration with God

and Guru seems laughable when you compare mypitifully small capacity

to do sadhana with that of other devotees.Yet I have certainly had my

share and more of graces. I don't think there is any simple answer for

your situation (or mineeither). There must be a reason you have been

lurking here steadilyfor the past couple years. If there is any faith

in you about thedivine awareness of Maa and Swamiji, perhaps if you

can lay yourselfat their feet, ask their advise, then follow it, you

will eventuallyfind that which you most desire. I am reminded of a

sadhu story. I apologize,

this is a well know storywith actual historical people, but as is

usually the case with me, Idon't remember all the details (like who

they were). In any case, itis a good story, and one that give me some

measure of comfort.There was a famous Swami, very devoted to Divine

Mother, who spent hisdays in worship, tapasya, and teaching. Finally,

after many years, hebegan to feel the breath of time close on his

heels. His life wasnearing its end and though he was well known,

respected, and had manystudents, he had not attained enlightenment;

he had never had thedarshan of Divine Mother he had served for so

long.So, one day he simply got up and left the ashram where he lived,

andall of his students, to search for someone who could help him

acrossthat final hurdle. He wandered for some time, and everywhere he

wenthe was recognized for the teaching he had spent his life doing,

butnowhere did he find anyone to help him achieve

enlightenment. Finally, he established himself in a certain cremation

ground andbegan his practices there. He determined that he would

remain thereuntil either he died, or got the darshan of Divine

Mother. One nightwhile he was engaged in his worship a certain Master

was passing andsaw the sadhu there. This Master recognized the sadhu

and his dilemmaand in compassion for him determined to help him, so

he waited untilthe sadhu's practices were finished and introduced

himself.When the sadhu learned who this Master was, expressing his

greatfrustration, he begged the Master's help to attain enlightment.

Hesaid," Master, all of my life have I worshipped and strove with all

ofmy strength. I have taught others the ways and means to

achieveenlightenment, and now as I near the end of my life I have

still notexperienced it myself. Please, I know it is within your

power, help me."The Master replied, "Your karma is such that

you will not achieveenlightenment in this lifetime. You are prevented

from doing so."The sadhu begged him to allow him to see the form of

his belovedDivine Mother and give him samadhi.Filled with compassion

for the sadhu, the Master relented, saying,"Very well, I will do this

for you," and Divine Mother apperaed there,in the cremation ground in

all her graceful beauty.For a moment the sadhu was dumbstruck with

wonder, but suddenly hisface contorted with rage and he yelled at

her, "What kind of a Motherare you! All of these years of yearning

after you, of serving you, andonly now do you come!" And Divine

Mother vanished.The sadhu sat in silence for a moment, and then he

cried,"Oh what haveI done?"The Master looked at him with compassion

and said, "It was inevitable.It was your karma." In the place where

Divine Mother had stood there now lay a fine yantraof Her form. The

Master instructed the sadhu

in the worship of theyantra, which is said to still exist even today.

The story as I read it contains information about the sadhu's

eventualenlightenment and death, but since I don't recall the

specifics I'llleave things as they are. In any case, I'm sure you see

the parallelswith yourself.May God bless you,Chris