Guest guest Posted May 2, 2005 Report Share Posted May 2, 2005 Greetings everyone! Let's contemplate one more verse. "Intelligent disciples should never speak lies with untruth or egotism. Always speak truth before the Guru." Receive, receive. We don't know anything. This is the state of origin, the state to meet God. The ego has been called an untamed stallion, a caged tiger. He can jump out at any time! What does it mean, "before the Guru"? Again, we are exploring on at least 2 levels. If we are aware of the Guru, or God, anytime, any place, then we are enjoined to always speak the truth. What is the truth? Does this mean only, not telling verbal lies? How about our inner attitude? Are we striking a pose? What is happening, what world am I creating now? Am I creating karma or facilitating shanti within and without? Regarding the agency of the human Guru, what is our behavior? What is truth in this relationship? Truth according to our psychotherapist might not be the same truth as our spiritual truth, at least not in our manner of approach. We can honor the approach as exemplified by the Guru. In the example of Shree Maa and Swamiji, we have the option to approach them, and speak their truth, as they have expressed it. For example: Respect. This is critical. This does not mean "distance." This mean honoring the Way, the Eternal Way. This means, "you are precious, you are holding the Way in your heart and life, so I hold you in my heart and life." Untruth is basically protecting the ego. Truth is surrendering the Ego. Swamiji has said, this is the hardest thing for Westerners to do. Trust is at the center of this. Trust is the door to this. We need to be patient and see the Eternal Way as throughout one's entire life and beyond. We are not fragile broken flowers, we are going deep, deep into the Ganges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2005 Report Share Posted May 2, 2005 Steveji, your thoughtful commentary has rendered me speechless. How to speak truth? Is not every word I say a lie? Silence, silence, silence....... thank you for sharing your wisdom, with love, Henny -- In , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> wrote: > Greetings everyone! Let's contemplate one more verse. > > "Intelligent disciples should never speak lies with untruth or > egotism. Always speak truth before the Guru." > > Receive, receive. We don't know anything. This is the state of origin, > the state to meet God. > > The ego has been called an untamed stallion, a caged tiger. He can > jump out at any time! > > What does it mean, "before the Guru"? Again, we are exploring on at > least 2 levels. > > If we are aware of the Guru, or God, anytime, any place, then we are > enjoined to always speak the truth. > > What is the truth? Does this mean only, not telling verbal lies? How > about our inner attitude? Are we striking a pose? What is happening, > what world am I creating now? Am I creating karma or facilitating > shanti within and without? > > Regarding the agency of the human Guru, what is our behavior? What is > truth in this relationship? > > Truth according to our psychotherapist might not be the same truth as > our spiritual truth, at least not in our manner of approach. We can > honor the approach as exemplified by the Guru. > > In the example of Shree Maa and Swamiji, we have the option to > approach them, and speak their truth, as they have expressed it. > > For example: Respect. This is critical. This does not mean "distance." > This mean honoring the Way, the Eternal Way. This means, "you are > precious, you are holding the Way in your heart and life, so I hold > you in my heart and life." > > Untruth is basically protecting the ego. Truth is surrendering the > Ego. Swamiji has said, this is the hardest thing for Westerners to do. > > Trust is at the center of this. Trust is the door to this. We need to > be patient and see the Eternal Way as throughout one's entire life and > beyond. We are not fragile broken flowers, we are going deep, deep > into the Ganges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2005 Report Share Posted May 2, 2005 Please Mother help us, take our hand and show us the way. Steve Connor <sconnor (AT) austin (DOT) rr.com> wrote: Greetings everyone! Let's contemplate one more verse."Intelligent disciples should never speak lies with untruth oregotism. Always speak truth before the Guru."Receive, receive. We don't know anything. This is the state of origin,the state to meet God.The ego has been called an untamed stallion, a caged tiger. He canjump out at any time!What does it mean, "before the Guru"? Again, we are exploring on atleast 2 levels.If we are aware of the Guru, or God, anytime, any place, then we areenjoined to always speak the truth.What is the truth? Does this mean only, not telling verbal lies? Howabout our inner attitude? Are we striking a pose? What is happening,what world am I creating now? Am I creating karma or facilitatingshanti within and without?Regarding the agency of the human Guru, what is our behavior? What istruth in this relationship?Truth according to our psychotherapist might not be the same truth asour spiritual truth, at least not in our manner of approach. We canhonor the approach as exemplified by the Guru.In the example of Shree Maa and Swamiji, we have the option toapproach them, and speak their truth, as they have expressed it.For example: Respect. This is critical. This does not mean "distance."This mean honoring the Way, the Eternal Way. This means, "you areprecious, you are holding the Way in your heart and life, so I holdyou in my heart and life."Untruth is basically protecting the ego. Truth is surrendering theEgo. Swamiji has said, this is the hardest thing for Westerners to do.Trust is at the center of this. Trust is the door to this. We need tobe patient and see the Eternal Way as throughout one's entire life andbeyond. We are not fragile broken flowers, we are going deep, deepinto the Ganges.Kalacandra dd Acesso Grátis: Internet rápida e grátis. Instale o discador agora! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2005 Report Share Posted May 2, 2005 , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote: > Steveji, > "your thoughtful commentary has rendered me speechless." muktimaa: "i totally agree with Henny! Steveji you are really in your element! You are really honoring the Guru with every inspired commentary you have made! What a blessing you are! Hennyji:: "How to speak truth? Is not every word I say a lie? Silence, silence, silence......." muktimaa:"Words at best are but a mere reflection of Truth. 'She Whose Silence is like quiet thunder' Jai Kaali Maa! Her daughter, muktimaa > > > > > -- In , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> > wrote: > > Greetings everyone! Let's contemplate one more verse. > > > > "Intelligent disciples should never speak lies with untruth or > > egotism. Always speak truth before the Guru." > > > > Receive, receive. We don't know anything. This is the state of > origin, > > the state to meet God. > > > > The ego has been called an untamed stallion, a caged tiger. He can > > jump out at any time! > > > > What does it mean, "before the Guru"? Again, we are exploring on at > > least 2 levels. > > > > If we are aware of the Guru, or God, anytime, any place, then we are > > enjoined to always speak the truth. > > > > What is the truth? Does this mean only, not telling verbal lies? How > > about our inner attitude? Are we striking a pose? What is happening, > > what world am I creating now? Am I creating karma or facilitating > > shanti within and without? > > > > Regarding the agency of the human Guru, what is our behavior? What > is > > truth in this relationship? > > > > Truth according to our psychotherapist might not be the same truth > as > > our spiritual truth, at least not in our manner of approach. We can > > honor the approach as exemplified by the Guru. > > > > In the example of Shree Maa and Swamiji, we have the option to > > approach them, and speak their truth, as they have expressed it. > > > > For example: Respect. This is critical. This does not mean > "distance." > > This mean honoring the Way, the Eternal Way. This means, "you are > > precious, you are holding the Way in your heart and life, so I hold > > you in my heart and life." > > > > Untruth is basically protecting the ego. Truth is surrendering the > > Ego. Swamiji has said, this is the hardest thing for Westerners to > do. > > > > Trust is at the center of this. Trust is the door to this. We need > to > > be patient and see the Eternal Way as throughout one's entire life > and > > beyond. We are not fragile broken flowers, we are going deep, deep > > into the Ganges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 > "Intelligent disciples should never speak lies with untruth or > egotism. Always speak truth before the Guru." > Dear Steve and all, When do we lie in front of a Guru? I think , and speaking for myself, it is mostly to preserve an image of ourselves. The very image that we are seeking to shatter and replace with a reflection of the Guru. I dont believe this means that we need to let on all the guilt trips and unburden our hopes and desires and fantasies . Or in the name of being honest, be brutally frank. I believe this means that we give the straight answer to the straight question and live with the consequences. Ah the blessings of a clear conscience. Where the mind is without fear and the head is held high ... Jai Guru Nanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 Hi Steve, I think it is very difficult to live in truth at all times. As Mother has said it is the most important sadhana for the Kali Yuga. I think this is because in this age we are so very far from the truth of who and what we are. All we know ourselves to be (unless we are enlightened already) is fundimentally untrue. To recognize and express the truth of our nature is a discipline indeed. The "intellegent disciple" epithet here is kind of interesting. I think it must mean that only one who doesn't recognize the true nature of the guru would dare to posture before her. The "intellegent disciple" recognizes that we all come totally exposed, metaphorically naked, before the guru. Jai Gurudeva! Jai Maa! Chris , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> wrote: > Greetings everyone! Let's contemplate one more verse. > > "Intelligent disciples should never speak lies with untruth or > egotism. Always speak truth before the Guru." > > Receive, receive. We don't know anything. This is the state of origin, > the state to meet God. > > The ego has been called an untamed stallion, a caged tiger. He can > jump out at any time! > > What does it mean, "before the Guru"? Again, we are exploring on at > least 2 levels. > > If we are aware of the Guru, or God, anytime, any place, then we are > enjoined to always speak the truth. > > What is the truth? Does this mean only, not telling verbal lies? How > about our inner attitude? Are we striking a pose? What is happening, > what world am I creating now? Am I creating karma or facilitating > shanti within and without? > > Regarding the agency of the human Guru, what is our behavior? What is > truth in this relationship? > > Truth according to our psychotherapist might not be the same truth as > our spiritual truth, at least not in our manner of approach. We can > honor the approach as exemplified by the Guru. > > In the example of Shree Maa and Swamiji, we have the option to > approach them, and speak their truth, as they have expressed it. > > For example: Respect. This is critical. This does not mean "distance." > This mean honoring the Way, the Eternal Way. This means, "you are > precious, you are holding the Way in your heart and life, so I hold > you in my heart and life." > > Untruth is basically protecting the ego. Truth is surrendering the > Ego. Swamiji has said, this is the hardest thing for Westerners to do. > > Trust is at the center of this. Trust is the door to this. We need to > be patient and see the Eternal Way as throughout one's entire life and > beyond. We are not fragile broken flowers, we are going deep, deep > into the Ganges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 , "Nanda" <chandimaakijai> wrote: > > > "Intelligent disciples should never speak lies with untruth or > > egotism. Always speak truth before the Guru." Namaste beloved family, To me this stanza implies that we do not lie...period. Since the Guru is everywhere in all things animate and inanimate, we are always in the Presence of the Guru.[Where is God not?] We must strive to be True...for our heart and minds to be in perfect harmony. One of the hardest things, though, is to know when to speak and when to keep silent. Jai Guru! Your sister, muktimaa > > > > Dear Steve and all, > > When do we lie in front of a Guru? > I think , and speaking for myself, it is mostly to preserve an image > of ourselves. The very image that we are seeking to shatter and > replace with a reflection of the Guru. > > I dont believe this means that we need to let on all the guilt trips > and unburden our hopes and desires and fantasies . Or in the name of > being honest, be brutally frank. I believe this means that we give > the straight answer to the straight question and live with the > consequences. > > Ah the blessings of a clear conscience. Where the mind is without > fear and the head is held high ... > > Jai Guru > Nanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 > "Intelligent disciples should never speak lies with untruth or > egotism. Always speak truth before the Guru." Namaste,Beloved Family! i would like to give a quote from the introduction of Swamiji's translation of 'Vishnu Puja The Thousand Names of Vishnu and The Satya Narayana Vrat'; He says: "The 3rd section of this book is called the 'Satya Narayana Vrat Katha, the story of the vow to speak and act in truth. The story of this worship comes from the Skanda Purana. It tells how people were blessed with the knowledge that living with Truth grants every blessing and makes one divine. Those who observed this vow, and actually practiced living with Truth, were blessed with the fulfillment of all worldly needs and spiritual attainment, while those who ignored this simple fact were beset with difficulties. It seems that one lie required another lie to keep from being discovered, and the complexity of life continued to grow until the confusion became intolerable. Shree Satya Naaraayana Ki Jai!" Lies=ego Truth=God No place to hide, God loves a moving target. The Guru is God and He/She is everywhere. That doesn't mean we are Truthful to the point of being hurtful. We don't say, "My gosh that is a horrible dress" We learn when it is best to keep silent, and that is extremely difficult. But we continue to try our very best, realizing our Guru is always with us, always listening, always watching.[in other words, any lie we tell to anyone is out of our egotism and IS being said 'to the Guru' because the Guru principle dwells in all; it doesn't matter that the person may not realize it] Hopefully one day Untruth will be so foreign to our nature, we couldn't utter a lie[no matter how convenient it would seem to be] if our life depended on it. In the meanwhile, we try our best to be warriors of Truth the best we can. We won't always be able to do it, i know, but we continue to try and try. i love you dear brothers and sisters. Jai Chandi Shree Maa! Jai Shiva Swamiji! Jai Thakur Ramakrishna Deva! Jai Guru! Your sister always, muktimaa > > Receive, receive. We don't know anything. This is the state of origin, > the state to meet God. > > The ego has been called an untamed stallion, a caged tiger. He can > jump out at any time! > > What does it mean, "before the Guru"? Again, we are exploring on at > least 2 levels. > > If we are aware of the Guru, or God, anytime, any place, then we are > enjoined to always speak the truth. > > What is the truth? Does this mean only, not telling verbal lies? How > about our inner attitude? Are we striking a pose? What is happening, > what world am I creating now? Am I creating karma or facilitating > shanti within and without? > > Regarding the agency of the human Guru, what is our behavior? What is > truth in this relationship? > > Truth according to our psychotherapist might not be the same truth as > our spiritual truth, at least not in our manner of approach. We can > honor the approach as exemplified by the Guru. > > In the example of Shree Maa and Swamiji, we have the option to > approach them, and speak their truth, as they have expressed it. > > For example: Respect. This is critical. This does not mean "distance." > This mean honoring the Way, the Eternal Way. This means, "you are > precious, you are holding the Way in your heart and life, so I hold > you in my heart and life." > > Untruth is basically protecting the ego. Truth is surrendering the > Ego. Swamiji has said, this is the hardest thing for Westerners to do. > > Trust is at the center of this. Trust is the door to this. We need to > be patient and see the Eternal Way as throughout one's entire life and > beyond. We are not fragile broken flowers, we are going deep, deep > into the Ganges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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