Guest guest Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 The verse: "One who speaks to the Guru with egotism, to attain victory in argument, may become a Brahmaraaksasah, a demon filled with the pride of learning, in a forest or a place with no water." What this says to me is this: If we break away from the heart, and throw in our lot with the mind, we will come to a very dry place. Jai Maa. Keep feet in the Ganges. How does this pertain to us. We can argue until the sun goes down. We can slay all opponents. But we do not see, we are backing into a corner, alone, defended. This is the nature of mind. The persuasive power of the Guru is not mind alone, but heart, discipline, example, knowledge, the ability to soar above ... many things. We wouldn't make that mistake, that enlightenment and realization are mental victories. Jai Maa. The world of mind seems endless. But like so many broken toys turning to dust. Jai Maa. We cannot win. There is no winning. The Game is not to win. Jai Maa, Jai Maa. The battle is not won with the mind, tha battle is against the mind. The two sided sword is discipline and love. Jai Maa. This hand, it hands over a small petal to the lingam. Where is that petal going? It is going beyond intellect. The petal, it is touching both your finger, and the divine. The finger, you feel attached to that. You are going to the divine along with that flower. You are being left on that lingam, in another dimension. Jai Maa. Give the freedom we desire. Jai Maa. Intellect is a tool of fear. We shed that fear like layers of dust in the water of devotional practices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 Dear Steve, thank you for posting the verse. Your commentary really speaks to me: > The persuasive power of the Guru is not mind alone, but heart, > discipline, example, knowledge, the ability to soar above ... many > things. We wouldn't make that mistake, that enlightenment and > realization are mental victories. I have spent a large part of the day arguing in my mind about 'points of discussion' triggered by the Guru Gita, such as the 'what is truth' question, and 'how can anyone know what truth is'. I guess I got caught in the 'argumentative' mode. So on and on I went, debating the matter with a guru-figure in my head (who kind of looked like Swamiji) trying to explain to him why I did not think he could know what truth was either. I don't know what he said, because although we Westerners may have learned how to be critical and defend our own position, we have not learned to listen very well (or is it just me?) Finally, having become very tired of all this, I got the definite urge to go and watch the cd I ordered some time ago and had not seen yet, showing Shree Maa and Swamiji doing sadhana at the Jyotirlingams. After the last image had come on the screen, I actually could not speak for half an hour. I never saw or heard something so beautiful and true in my life. Then it dawned on me that the guru IS truth. In that light all arguments become idle, all intellectual pride foolishness. I bow to the Divine Couple who gently lead the thirsty to the fountain of living water, Henny , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> wrote: > The verse: "One who speaks to the Guru with egotism, to attain victory > in argument, may become a Brahmaraaksasah, a demon filled with the > pride of learning, in a forest or a place with no water." > > What this says to me is this: > > If we break away from the heart, and throw in our lot with the mind, > we will come to a very dry place. > > Jai Maa. Keep feet in the Ganges. > > How does this pertain to us. We can argue until the sun goes down. We > can slay all opponents. But we do not see, we are backing into a > corner, alone, defended. This is the nature of mind. > > The persuasive power of the Guru is not mind alone, but heart, > discipline, example, knowledge, the ability to soar above ... many > things. We wouldn't make that mistake, that enlightenment and > realization are mental victories. > > Jai Maa. The world of mind seems endless. But like so many broken toys > turning to dust. > > Jai Maa. We cannot win. There is no winning. The Game is not to win. > Jai Maa, Jai Maa. > > The battle is not won with the mind, tha battle is against the mind. > The two sided sword is discipline and love. > > Jai Maa. This hand, it hands over a small petal to the lingam. Where > is that petal going? It is going beyond intellect. The petal, it is > touching both your finger, and the divine. The finger, you feel > attached to that. You are going to the divine along with that flower. > You are being left on that lingam, in another dimension. > > Jai Maa. Give the freedom we desire. Jai Maa. Intellect is a tool of > fear. We shed that fear like layers of dust in the water of devotional > practices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 yup ... it is not mental at all ... maybe some day, we wll have new words for this altogether, ones that suit us even better, that get us closer, faster, to this state of mind/being ... the word 'truth' implies some sort of dialectic, or some arbitrated perspective, but this truth is beyond mind ... the whole point is to transcend our dualistic states and enter the unity ... we have the attractive power of the saints, love, practice, devotion, anything that has the power to pull us out of our limited minds. we feel isolated, trapped, etc. so we need something more powerful than that sense of limitation. once we engage that "whatever it is" .... God, Truth ... we are free. for whatever reason, practice is required to clear out our sense of limitation. we don't know why this works, we only know that it does work. the more we contemplate and consider the depth of things, the more we understand implicitly the "truth," the better. Shree Maa refers to this as the Eternal Way. There is no end to it. there is quite a confusion regarding the term "intellect." it is required to make our way about the world, for example, to plan things. but as a tool to see God, we have to go beyond that into some other form of understanding. intellect is used to arrange the materials of life. it can even be used to establish many excellent things, sanskrit, etc. but then, we eventually leave off the intellect, and open our sense of things even wider, because we have to grasp many conflicting concepts simultaneously. you might notice this kind of thing in the Chandi -- verses that seem to superficially be self-contradictory, but are actually forcing us to understand existence itself from another level entirely. this is serving to dissolve the dualistic material mind. , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote: > Dear Steve, > > thank you for posting the verse. Your commentary really speaks to me: > > > The persuasive power of the Guru is not mind alone, but heart, > > discipline, example, knowledge, the ability to soar above ... many > > things. We wouldn't make that mistake, that enlightenment and > > realization are mental victories. > > I have spent a large part of the day arguing in my mind about 'points > of discussion' triggered by the Guru Gita, such as the 'what is truth' > question, and 'how can anyone know what truth is'. I guess I got > caught in the 'argumentative' mode. So on and on I went, debating the > matter with a guru-figure in my head (who kind of looked like Swamiji) > trying to explain to him why I did not think he could know what truth > was either. I don't know what he said, because although we Westerners > may have learned how to be critical and defend our own position, we > have not learned to listen very well (or is it just me?) > Finally, having become very tired of all this, I got the definite urge > to go and watch the cd I ordered some time ago and had not seen yet, > showing Shree Maa and Swamiji doing sadhana at the Jyotirlingams. > After the last image had come on the screen, I actually could not > speak for half an hour. I never saw or heard something so beautiful > and true in my life. Then it dawned on me that the guru IS truth. In > that light all arguments become idle, all intellectual pride > foolishness. > > I bow to the Divine Couple who gently lead the thirsty to the fountain > of living water, > > Henny > > > , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> > wrote: > > The verse: "One who speaks to the Guru with egotism, to attain > victory > > in argument, may become a Brahmaraaksasah, a demon filled with the > > pride of learning, in a forest or a place with no water." > > > > What this says to me is this: > > > > If we break away from the heart, and throw in our lot with the mind, > > we will come to a very dry place. > > > > Jai Maa. Keep feet in the Ganges. > > > > How does this pertain to us. We can argue until the sun goes down. > We > > can slay all opponents. But we do not see, we are backing into a > > corner, alone, defended. This is the nature of mind. > > > > The persuasive power of the Guru is not mind alone, but heart, > > discipline, example, knowledge, the ability to soar above ... many > > things. We wouldn't make that mistake, that enlightenment and > > realization are mental victories. > > > > Jai Maa. The world of mind seems endless. But like so many broken > toys > > turning to dust. > > > > Jai Maa. We cannot win. There is no winning. The Game is not to win. > > Jai Maa, Jai Maa. > > > > The battle is not won with the mind, tha battle is against the mind. > > The two sided sword is discipline and love. > > > > Jai Maa. This hand, it hands over a small petal to the lingam. Where > > is that petal going? It is going beyond intellect. The petal, it is > > touching both your finger, and the divine. The finger, you feel > > attached to that. You are going to the divine along with that > flower. > > You are being left on that lingam, in another dimension. > > > > Jai Maa. Give the freedom we desire. Jai Maa. Intellect is a tool of > > fear. We shed that fear like layers of dust in the water of > devotional > > practices. 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Guest guest Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote:\ "Then it dawned on me that the guru IS truth. In > that light all arguments become idle, all intellectual pride > foolishness. > I bow to the Divine Couple who gently lead the thirsty to the fountain of living water." Beloved Hennyji! i am weeping in such joy and bliss, because you have realized a very very deep and important Truth today. That makes even my toes tingle and dance with the shear joy of it! i bow to you, dear Hennyji! And i bow to the source of this inspiration, who you have named so beautifully--'The Divine Couple Who gently leads the thirsty to the Fountain of Living Water' You know,dearest sister, i do believe that is one of the best and most beautiful Names yet! :<D Jai Chandi Shree Maa! Jai Shiva Swamiji! Jai Thakur Ramakrishna Deva! Jai Guru! muktimaa >\ Dear Steve, > > thank you for posting the verse. Your commentary really speaks to me: > > > The persuasive power of the Guru is not mind alone, but heart, > > discipline, example, knowledge, the ability to soar above ... many > > things. We wouldn't make that mistake, that enlightenment and > > realization are mental victories. > > I have spent a large part of the day arguing in my mind about 'points > of discussion' triggered by the Guru Gita, such as the 'what is truth' > question, and 'how can anyone know what truth is'. I guess I got > caught in the 'argumentative' mode. So on and on I went, debating the > matter with a guru-figure in my head (who kind of looked like Swamiji) > trying to explain to him why I did not think he could know what truth > was either. I don't know what he said, because although we Westerners > may have learned how to be critical and defend our own position, we > have not learned to listen very well (or is it just me?) > Finally, having become very tired of all this, I got the definite urge > to go and watch the cd I ordered some time ago and had not seen yet, > showing Shree Maa and Swamiji doing sadhana at the Jyotirlingams. > After the last image had come on the screen, I actually could not > speak for half an hour. I never saw or heard something so beautiful > and true in my life. Then it dawned on me that the guru IS truth. In > that light all arguments become idle, all intellectual pride > foolishness. > > I bow to the Divine Couple who gently lead the thirsty to the fountain > of living water, > > Henny > > > , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> > wrote: > > The verse: "One who speaks to the Guru with egotism, to attain > victory > > in argument, may become a Brahmaraaksasah, a demon filled with the > > pride of learning, in a forest or a place with no water." > > > > What this says to me is this: > > > > If we break away from the heart, and throw in our lot with the mind, > > we will come to a very dry place. > > > > Jai Maa. Keep feet in the Ganges. > > > > How does this pertain to us. We can argue until the sun goes down. > We > > can slay all opponents. But we do not see, we are backing into a > > corner, alone, defended. This is the nature of mind. > > > > The persuasive power of the Guru is not mind alone, but heart, > > discipline, example, knowledge, the ability to soar above ... many > > things. We wouldn't make that mistake, that enlightenment and > > realization are mental victories. > > > > Jai Maa. The world of mind seems endless. But like so many broken > toys > > turning to dust. > > > > Jai Maa. We cannot win. There is no winning. The Game is not to win. > > Jai Maa, Jai Maa. > > > > The battle is not won with the mind, tha battle is against the mind. > > The two sided sword is discipline and love. > > > > Jai Maa. This hand, it hands over a small petal to the lingam. Where > > is that petal going? It is going beyond intellect. The petal, it is > > touching both your finger, and the divine. The finger, you feel > > attached to that. You are going to the divine along with that > flower. > > You are being left on that lingam, in another dimension. > > > > Jai Maa. Give the freedom we desire. Jai Maa. Intellect is a tool of > > fear. We shed that fear like layers of dust in the water of > devotional > > practices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 Steve Connor <sconnor (AT) austin (DOT) rr.com> wrote: The verse: "One who speaks to the Guru with egotism, to attain victoryin argument, may become a Brahmaraaksasah, a demon filled with thepride of learning, in a forest or a place with no water." This verse seems also to speak on respect. If we respect our Guru, we will not want to argue with Him or Her. It also seems that to argue with Guru, one could be rebirth in an area or time where spiritual teachings or knowledge of Guru is inaccessible. We knock on many doors searching for truth but the fear of losing - that Ego keeps our minds in bondage. so even after we have found truth we are discontented and dissatisfied, hence the need to argue. RamaKrishna once said - " If a man clings tenaciously to truth he ultimately realizes God.Without this regard for truth he gradually loses everything."Sometime ago, while visiting the Devi Mandir, the opportunity to walk with Beloved ShreeMaa arose, as Maa got to a certain point She stood and looked straight into these eyes and said "Kali, I do not know about others, but I know that you tell me the truth". Since then, it is even more important for this child to be truthful in all actions. KaliDo You ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 That is lovely, Kali. I was privileged to meet with Swamiji this weekend. We were supposed to have an "interview" with the questions presented in the group, but it quickly turned into a chat on what it means to be a true devotee and a disciple. (For all those that are wondering, the questions are still with me, but I get the feeling we may not do the audio interview but get responses via the usual q&a... and that too Swamiji is really busy now... so.... just to keep you posted) Anyway , one of the things that Swamiji mentioned , "satya vidya vinaya bhavati" meaning "True knowledge bestows humility". I also remember a Tamil saying which says "What I have learned is but equilvalent to a handful of sand, what I still have yet to learn is equivalent to the entire world". If we keep this perspective, how can we be anything but humble. It is very much possible that we may not concur with some of the explanations or feel dissatisfied with some answer ... and the natural need to enforce our point will arise. BUT, we ask questions or seek clarification with the greatest of respect, at the appropriate time and location. AND, with the greatest of humility. Respect to the Guru, and humility in our thoughts - I believe as long as we have these, we can get the Guru's grace. JAI GURU Nanda --- Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati wrote: > > Steve Connor <sconnor wrote: > The verse: "One who speaks to the Guru with egotism, > to attain victory > in argument, may become a Brahmaraaksasah, a demon > filled with the > pride of learning, in a forest or a place with no > water." This verse seems also to speak on respect. If we > respect our Guru, we will not want to argue with > Him or Her. It also seems that to argue with > Guru, one could be rebirth in an area or time where > spiritual teachings or knowledge of Guru is > inaccessible. We knock on many doors searching for > truth but the fear of losing - that Ego keeps our > minds in bondage. so even after we have found truth > we are discontented and dissatisfied, hence the need > to argue. > > > > RamaKrishna once said - " If a man clings > tenaciously to truth he ultimately realizes God. > Without this regard for truth he gradually loses > everything." > > Sometime ago, while visiting the Devi Mandir, the > opportunity to walk with Beloved ShreeMaa arose, as > Maa got to a certain point She stood and looked > straight into these eyes and said "Kali, I do not > know about others, but I know that you tell me the > truth". Since then, it is even more important for > this child to be truthful in all actions. > > > > Kali > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > protection around > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2005 Report Share Posted May 4, 2005 Steve said: > you might notice this kind of thing in the Chandi -- verses that seem > to superficially be self-contradictory, but are actually forcing us > to understand existence itself from another level entirely. this is > serving to dissolve the dualistic material mind. > Hiya Steve and all, I am curious to know which verses from the Chandi you found superficially self-contradictory. Couldja give some examples please.. Thank you and JAI MAA Nanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2005 Report Share Posted May 4, 2005 > for whatever reason, practice is required to clear out our sense of > limitation. we don't know why this works, we only know that it does > work. the more we contemplate and consider the depth of things, the > more we understand implicitly the "truth," the better. yes, I see; the more we hold onto 'that' and the more we focus our attention on the depth of things, the more the 'living truth' can work its miracles, opening our minds 'from within'. It is very difficult to find the words to express what I mean, but I do understand what you are saying. thanks, with love, Henny , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> wrote: > yup ... it is not mental at all ... maybe some day, we wll have new > words for this altogether, ones that suit us even better, that get us > closer, faster, to this state of mind/being ... the word 'truth' > implies some sort of dialectic, or some arbitrated perspective, but > this truth is beyond mind ... the whole point is to transcend our > dualistic states and enter the unity ... we have the attractive power > of the saints, love, practice, devotion, anything that has the power > to pull us out of our limited minds. > > we feel isolated, trapped, etc. so we need something more powerful > than that sense of limitation. once we engage that "whatever it is" > ... God, Truth ... we are free. > > for whatever reason, practice is required to clear out our sense of > limitation. we don't know why this works, we only know that it does > work. the more we contemplate and consider the depth of things, the > more we understand implicitly the "truth," the better. > > Shree Maa refers to this as the Eternal Way. There is no end to it. > > there is quite a confusion regarding the term "intellect." it is > required to make our way about the world, for example, to plan things. > but as a tool to see God, we have to go beyond that into some other > form of understanding. intellect is used to arrange the materials of > life. it can even be used to establish many excellent things, > sanskrit, etc. but then, we eventually leave off the intellect, and > open our sense of things even wider, because we have to grasp many > conflicting concepts simultaneously. > > you might notice this kind of thing in the Chandi -- verses that seem > to superficially be self-contradictory, but are actually forcing us > to understand existence itself from another level entirely. this is > serving to dissolve the dualistic material mind. > > , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote: > > Dear Steve, > > > > thank you for posting the verse. Your commentary really speaks to > me: > > > > > The persuasive power of the Guru is not mind alone, but heart, > > > discipline, example, knowledge, the ability to soar above ... many > > > things. We wouldn't make that mistake, that enlightenment and > > > realization are mental victories. > > > > I have spent a large part of the day arguing in my mind about > 'points > > of discussion' triggered by the Guru Gita, such as the 'what is > truth' > > question, and 'how can anyone know what truth is'. I guess I got > > caught in the 'argumentative' mode. So on and on I went, debating > the > > matter with a guru-figure in my head (who kind of looked like > Swamiji) > > trying to explain to him why I did not think he could know what > truth > > was either. I don't know what he said, because although we > Westerners > > may have learned how to be critical and defend our own position, we > > have not learned to listen very well (or is it just me?) > > Finally, having become very tired of all this, I got the definite > urge > > to go and watch the cd I ordered some time ago and had not seen > yet, > > showing Shree Maa and Swamiji doing sadhana at the Jyotirlingams. > > After the last image had come on the screen, I actually could not > > speak for half an hour. I never saw or heard something so beautiful > > and true in my life. Then it dawned on me that the guru IS truth. > In > > that light all arguments become idle, all intellectual pride > > foolishness. > > > > I bow to the Divine Couple who gently lead the thirsty to the > fountain > > of living water, > > > > Henny > > > > > > , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> > > wrote: > > > The verse: "One who speaks to the Guru with egotism, to attain > > victory > > > in argument, may become a Brahmaraaksasah, a demon filled with the > > > pride of learning, in a forest or a place with no water." > > > > > > What this says to me is this: > > > > > > If we break away from the heart, and throw in our lot with the > mind, > > > we will come to a very dry place. > > > > > > Jai Maa. Keep feet in the Ganges. > > > > > > How does this pertain to us. We can argue until the sun goes > down. > > We > > > can slay all opponents. But we do not see, we are backing into a > > > corner, alone, defended. This is the nature of mind. > > > > > > The persuasive power of the Guru is not mind alone, but heart, > > > discipline, example, knowledge, the ability to soar above ... many > > > things. We wouldn't make that mistake, that enlightenment and > > > realization are mental victories. > > > > > > Jai Maa. The world of mind seems endless. But like so many broken > > toys > > > turning to dust. > > > > > > Jai Maa. We cannot win. There is no winning. The Game is not to > win. > > > Jai Maa, Jai Maa. > > > > > > The battle is not won with the mind, tha battle is against the > mind. > > > The two sided sword is discipline and love. > > > > > > Jai Maa. This hand, it hands over a small petal to the lingam. > Where > > > is that petal going? It is going beyond intellect. The petal, it > is > > > touching both your finger, and the divine. The finger, you feel > > > attached to that. You are going to the divine along with that > > flower. > > > You are being left on that lingam, in another dimension. > > > > > > Jai Maa. Give the freedom we desire. Jai Maa. Intellect is a tool > of > > > fear. We shed that fear like layers of dust in the water of > > devotional > > > practices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2005 Report Share Posted May 4, 2005 Dear Nanda, you said: > Respect to the Guru, and humility in our thoughts - I > believe as long as we have these, we can get the > Guru's grace. yes, and this made me realize that it all comes down to the one question 'what is my goal?' again. Am I here to learn from the Guru or do I want to tell Him/Her what I think I already know? Is my cup empty or already full? Humility without self-deprecation, that's the challenge... with love, Henny , Nanda <chandimaakijai> wrote: > That is lovely, Kali. > > I was privileged to meet with Swamiji this weekend. We > were supposed to have an "interview" with the > questions presented in the group, but it quickly > turned into a chat on what it means to be a true devotee > and a disciple. > > (For all those that are wondering, the questions are > still with me, but I get the feeling we may not do the > audio interview but get responses via the usual q&a... > and that too Swamiji is really busy now... so.... just > to keep you posted) > > Anyway , one of the things that Swamiji mentioned , > "satya vidya vinaya bhavati" meaning "True knowledge > bestows humility". > > I also remember a Tamil saying which says "What I have > learned is but equilvalent to a handful of sand, what > I still have yet to learn is equivalent to the entire > world". If we keep this perspective, how can we be > anything but humble. > > It is very much possible that we may not concur with > some of the explanations or feel dissatisfied with > some answer ... and the natural need to enforce our > point will arise. BUT, we ask questions or seek > clarification with the greatest of respect, at the > appropriate time and location. AND, with the greatest > of humility. > > Respect to the Guru, and humility in our thoughts - I > believe as long as we have these, we can get the > Guru's grace. > > JAI GURU > Nanda > > > > > --- Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote: > > > > > Steve Connor <sconnor@a...> wrote: > > The verse: "One who speaks to the Guru with egotism, > > to attain victory > > in argument, may become a Brahmaraaksasah, a demon > > filled with the > > pride of learning, in a forest or a place with no > > water." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This verse seems also to speak on respect. If we > > respect our Guru, we will not want to argue with > > Him or Her. It also seems that to argue with > > Guru, one could be rebirth in an area or time where > > spiritual teachings or knowledge of Guru is > > inaccessible. We knock on many doors searching for > > truth but the fear of losing - that Ego keeps our > > minds in bondage. so even after we have found truth > > we are discontented and dissatisfied, hence the need > > to argue. > > > > > > > > RamaKrishna once said - " If a man clings > > tenaciously to truth he ultimately realizes God. > > Without this regard for truth he gradually loses > > everything." > > > > Sometime ago, while visiting the Devi Mandir, the > > opportunity to walk with Beloved ShreeMaa arose, as > > Maa got to a certain point She stood and looked > > straight into these eyes and said "Kali, I do not > > know about others, but I know that you tell me the > > truth". Since then, it is even more important for > > this child to be truthful in all actions. > > > > > > > > Kali > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > protection around > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2005 Report Share Posted May 4, 2005 Steve, I think this verse speaks to a certain kind of person who is very learned and very proud of all that he knows, but who lacks direct experiece of the depths of God's love. Such a person doesn't recognize the guru and only seeks to win. Arguementation for its own sake is always a matter of ego, only when the heart is connected in a meaningful way is it a matter of Truth. Chris , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> wrote: > The verse: "One who speaks to the Guru with egotism, to attain victory > in argument, may become a Brahmaraaksasah, a demon filled with the > pride of learning, in a forest or a place with no water." > > What this says to me is this: > > If we break away from the heart, and throw in our lot with the mind, > we will come to a very dry place. > > Jai Maa. Keep feet in the Ganges. > > How does this pertain to us. We can argue until the sun goes down. We > can slay all opponents. But we do not see, we are backing into a > corner, alone, defended. This is the nature of mind. > > The persuasive power of the Guru is not mind alone, but heart, > discipline, example, knowledge, the ability to soar above ... many > things. We wouldn't make that mistake, that enlightenment and > realization are mental victories. > > Jai Maa. The world of mind seems endless. But like so many broken toys > turning to dust. > > Jai Maa. We cannot win. There is no winning. The Game is not to win. > Jai Maa, Jai Maa. > > The battle is not won with the mind, tha battle is against the mind. > The two sided sword is discipline and love. > > Jai Maa. This hand, it hands over a small petal to the lingam. Where > is that petal going? It is going beyond intellect. The petal, it is > touching both your finger, and the divine. The finger, you feel > attached to that. You are going to the divine along with that flower. > You are being left on that lingam, in another dimension. > > Jai Maa. Give the freedom we desire. Jai Maa. Intellect is a tool of > fear. We shed that fear like layers of dust in the water of devotional > practices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2005 Report Share Posted May 4, 2005 Henny, The complexities of all this sort of pale before the simplicity of loving worship, don't they? Chris , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote: > Dear Steve, > > thank you for posting the verse. Your commentary really speaks to me: > > > The persuasive power of the Guru is not mind alone, but heart, > > discipline, example, knowledge, the ability to soar above ... many > > things. We wouldn't make that mistake, that enlightenment and > > realization are mental victories. > > I have spent a large part of the day arguing in my mind about 'points > of discussion' triggered by the Guru Gita, such as the 'what is truth' > question, and 'how can anyone know what truth is'. I guess I got > caught in the 'argumentative' mode. So on and on I went, debating the > matter with a guru-figure in my head (who kind of looked like Swamiji) > trying to explain to him why I did not think he could know what truth > was either. I don't know what he said, because although we Westerners > may have learned how to be critical and defend our own position, we > have not learned to listen very well (or is it just me?) > Finally, having become very tired of all this, I got the definite urge > to go and watch the cd I ordered some time ago and had not seen yet, > showing Shree Maa and Swamiji doing sadhana at the Jyotirlingams. > After the last image had come on the screen, I actually could not > speak for half an hour. I never saw or heard something so beautiful > and true in my life. Then it dawned on me that the guru IS truth. In > that light all arguments become idle, all intellectual pride > foolishness. > > I bow to the Divine Couple who gently lead the thirsty to the fountain > of living water, > > Henny > > > , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> > wrote: > > The verse: "One who speaks to the Guru with egotism, to attain > victory > > in argument, may become a Brahmaraaksasah, a demon filled with the > > pride of learning, in a forest or a place with no water." > > > > What this says to me is this: > > > > If we break away from the heart, and throw in our lot with the mind, > > we will come to a very dry place. > > > > Jai Maa. Keep feet in the Ganges. > > > > How does this pertain to us. We can argue until the sun goes down. > We > > can slay all opponents. But we do not see, we are backing into a > > corner, alone, defended. This is the nature of mind. > > > > The persuasive power of the Guru is not mind alone, but heart, > > discipline, example, knowledge, the ability to soar above ... many > > things. We wouldn't make that mistake, that enlightenment and > > realization are mental victories. > > > > Jai Maa. The world of mind seems endless. But like so many broken > toys > > turning to dust. > > > > Jai Maa. We cannot win. There is no winning. The Game is not to win. > > Jai Maa, Jai Maa. > > > > The battle is not won with the mind, tha battle is against the mind. > > The two sided sword is discipline and love. > > > > Jai Maa. This hand, it hands over a small petal to the lingam. Where > > is that petal going? It is going beyond intellect. The petal, it is > > touching both your finger, and the divine. The finger, you feel > > attached to that. You are going to the divine along with that > flower. > > You are being left on that lingam, in another dimension. > > > > Jai Maa. Give the freedom we desire. Jai Maa. Intellect is a tool of > > fear. We shed that fear like layers of dust in the water of > devotional > > practices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 Yes, indeed. And I don't think I ever really knew how simplicity can transcend and at the same time include complexity before. , "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956@y. ...> wrote: > Henny, > > The complexities of all this sort of pale before the simplicity of > loving worship, don't they? > > Chris > > > > , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote: > > Dear Steve, > > > > thank you for posting the verse. Your commentary really speaks to me: > > > > > The persuasive power of the Guru is not mind alone, but heart, > > > discipline, example, knowledge, the ability to soar above ... many > > > things. We wouldn't make that mistake, that enlightenment and > > > realization are mental victories. > > > > I have spent a large part of the day arguing in my mind about 'points > > of discussion' triggered by the Guru Gita, such as the 'what is truth' > > question, and 'how can anyone know what truth is'. I guess I got > > caught in the 'argumentative' mode. So on and on I went, debating the > > matter with a guru-figure in my head (who kind of looked like Swamiji) > > trying to explain to him why I did not think he could know what truth > > was either. I don't know what he said, because although we Westerners > > may have learned how to be critical and defend our own position, we > > have not learned to listen very well (or is it just me?) > > Finally, having become very tired of all this, I got the definite urge > > to go and watch the cd I ordered some time ago and had not seen yet, > > showing Shree Maa and Swamiji doing sadhana at the Jyotirlingams. > > After the last image had come on the screen, I actually could not > > speak for half an hour. I never saw or heard something so beautiful > > and true in my life. Then it dawned on me that the guru IS truth. In > > that light all arguments become idle, all intellectual pride > > foolishness. > > > > I bow to the Divine Couple who gently lead the thirsty to the fountain > > of living water, > > > > Henny > > > > > > , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> > > wrote: > > > The verse: "One who speaks to the Guru with egotism, to attain > > victory > > > in argument, may become a Brahmaraaksasah, a demon filled with the > > > pride of learning, in a forest or a place with no water." > > > > > > What this says to me is this: > > > > > > If we break away from the heart, and throw in our lot with the mind, > > > we will come to a very dry place. > > > > > > Jai Maa. Keep feet in the Ganges. > > > > > > How does this pertain to us. We can argue until the sun goes down. > > We > > > can slay all opponents. But we do not see, we are backing into a > > > corner, alone, defended. This is the nature of mind. > > > > > > The persuasive power of the Guru is not mind alone, but heart, > > > discipline, example, knowledge, the ability to soar above ... many > > > things. We wouldn't make that mistake, that enlightenment and > > > realization are mental victories. > > > > > > Jai Maa. The world of mind seems endless. But like so many broken > > toys > > > turning to dust. > > > > > > Jai Maa. We cannot win. There is no winning. The Game is not to win. > > > Jai Maa, Jai Maa. > > > > > > The battle is not won with the mind, tha battle is against the mind. > > > The two sided sword is discipline and love. > > > > > > Jai Maa. This hand, it hands over a small petal to the lingam. Where > > > is that petal going? It is going beyond intellect. The petal, it is > > > touching both your finger, and the divine. The finger, you feel > > > attached to that. You are going to the divine along with that > > flower. > > > You are being left on that lingam, in another dimension. > > > > > > Jai Maa. Give the freedom we desire. Jai Maa. Intellect is a tool of > > > fear. We shed that fear like layers of dust in the water of > > devotional > > > practices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 sure ... for example in the 108 names ... She is: Eternal Youth; Never Aging; and, Advanced in Age. conventinoally speaking, this is contradictory. and yet the consideration of it expands our minds. chapter nine ... "the one is is both male and female continuously without end ..." chapter one ... "she is eternal and unborn" and yet "she becomes manifest." in the highest meaningi am unborn and again i take birth ..." all these statements drive us to a higher level of thinking, or beyond thinking, however we want to look at it. s , "Nanda" <chandimaakijai> wrote: > Steve said: > > you might notice this kind of thing in the Chandi -- verses that > seem > > to superficially be self-contradictory, but are actually forcing us > > to understand existence itself from another level entirely. this is > > serving to dissolve the dualistic material mind. > > > > Hiya Steve and all, > I am curious to know which verses from the Chandi you found > superficially self-contradictory. Couldja give some examples please.. > Thank you and JAI MAA > Nanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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