Guest guest Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Today we have reached 113 and here's how the verse reads - "Meditate upon that being who is higher that the highest. He is the cause of eternal bliss. He resides within the space of your heart and illuminates the purest clarity." Comment: Here again we see the greatness of this Being call Guru. There is none higher than the Guru, the Guru has attained the highest possible level of consciousness and is in total union with Her/His soul. Always remembering the greatness of this Pure Being established upon a throne within the heart, perform all duties with non-attachment Do your duty as a service to the God and humanity and see God alone in everything. When we can remember that all works are done by the energy of nature and we are but only instruments, then the bliss of being (clarity) is illuminated. Pranams to Beloved Gurujis. KaliaDo You ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 When the Guru resides in the heart, purest clarity is always automatic, as long as we stay in remembrance. We can place Shree Maa and Swami Ji in the shrine inside our hearts. Visualizing it mentally, we can put them there, and string garlands of beautiful, sweet scented flowers around them, and offer the light of our pure consciousness, as arati to them. We can make the endless chatter of our inner dialog, which goes on all day, become the sound of conch and bell which we offer our beloved Gurus in arati. Then all thoughts must become pure, and all words become sweet, because we offer it all to the shrine, in the cave of the heart, wherein lies the auspicious arati and puja to our beloved teachers. By staying in remembrance of the shrine of devotion and love within the heart, purest clarity is illuminated.Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati > wrote: Today we have reached 113 and here's how the verse reads - "Meditate upon that being who is higher that the highest. He is the cause of eternal bliss. He resides within the space of your heart and illuminates the purest clarity." Comment: Here again we see the greatness of this Being call Guru. There is none higher than the Guru, the Guru has attained the highest possible level of consciousness and is in total union with Her/His soul. Always remembering the greatness of this Pure Being established upon a throne within the heart, perform all duties with non-attachment Do your duty as a service to the God and humanity and see God alone in everything. When we can remember that all works are done by the energy of nature and we are but only instruments, then the bliss of being (clarity) is illuminated. Pranams to Beloved Gurujis. Kalia Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Dear Kalia, your comment is very beautiful. >Always remembering the greatness of this Pure Being established upon >a throne within the heart, perform all duties with non-attachment. I've had difficulties for a long time with the concept of the Most High 'residing within the space of your heart', but now that it's no longer a concept I have found that it is true, it is true, it is all true! May we always remember, with love, Henny , Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote: > > Today we have reached 113 and here's how the verse reads - > > > > "Meditate upon that being who is higher that the highest. He is the cause of eternal bliss. He resides within the space of your heart and illuminates the purest clarity." > > > > Comment: Here again we see the greatness of this Being call Guru. There is none higher than the Guru, the Guru has attained the highest possible level of consciousness and is in total union with Her/His soul. Always remembering the greatness of this Pure Being established upon a throne within the heart, perform all duties with non-attachment Do your duty as a service to the God and humanity and see God alone in everything. When we can remember that all works are done by the energy of nature and we are but only instruments, then the bliss of being (clarity) is illuminated. > > > > Pranams to Beloved Gurujis. > > > > Kalia > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Kalia, I had been wanting to point out the meditation aspect of this verse. As in so many other verses previous to this, we are enjoined to meditate upon the guru. I began by looking through the text for the other meditation verses and began to see patterns. The problem is, they are not simple, or obvious patterns. I have mentioned before the mixing of the transcendental and the material, the guru as God and the guru as human, in the Guru Gita. In looking through the meditation passages there appear to be other examples of the same thing, as well as, perhaps, underlying themes. One such intermingling of seemingly disparate ideas is that of bhakti and jnana, worship and wisdom. The message seems to be that as the guru herself is the personification of union of the apparently disparate, so the path of the guru unites the paths of bhakti and jnana. Passages meant to appeal to the jnani, and passages meant to appeal to the bhakta, are intermingled, as are passages apparently representing the union of those principle paths. In the Guru Gita we are from time to time enjoined to do something, perform some act in relation to the guru. This is practice, the application (beyond that of repetition of the mantras). Sometimes we are told simply to bow in recognition of some particular aspect of the guru. Sometimes we are told to repeat the mantra of the guru, or repeat the name of the guru. Sometimes we are told to worship. Sometimes we are told to serve. Sometimes we are told to remember, with love and reverence. Sometimes we are told to contemplate, sometimes intuit. Sometimes we are told to meditate. Leaving aside the dhyanam, the first time we are told to meditate on the guru is vs.15. We are told to "Always meditate upon the guru, [and] always recite the mantra of the guru." This is a primary meditative practice, an easy one that can be done anywhere, anytime. The idea is to make the gurudeva part of you, to fulfill your impulse to surrender and devote yourself to the gurudeva. So, in verse 18 it says, "Eternally remembering the image of the guru, always making recitation of the name of the guru, always observing the instruction of the guru, always maintain the attitude of none other than the guru." In the next verse, we are told to meditate on the guru "...just as a loving woman dreams of her husband," and in the verse after that (vs.20), to "Deeply intuit the attitude of the guru and no other," followed by (vs.21) "Not contemplating anything other than me..." If you remember back to the...hmmm...I've spaced it. You know, the beginning;the statement of purpose, where the meter, shakti, deva, etc. are stated, anyway, it says the purpose of this recitation is the attainment of perfection in the blessings of the guru. So the first step of that seems to be the development of guru bhava, through constant remembrance, contemplation, and meditation on the guru with the guru mantra (if you have one). Next seems to come service, and then some more advanced, or shall we say subtle, meditation practices (which brings me, sort of, back to the verses we are looking at now, and for the next few days). Now, the meditation practices given here, separate and distinct from those whose purpose is mindfulness of, and connection with the guru, seem to be of two major types (with one subdivision). The first is for jnanis, or those who are more oriented toward the intellect, and the second is for bhaktas, or those who are more heart oriented. Within the bhakti meditations are one (the first) where the guru is saguna (with qualities), he has a form, and the second, where the guru is nirguna (without qualities), and this one is the subject of the current study (vs. 113). If you want to look back, you can see the jnani meditation in verses 57 and 58. This meditation can be either saguna or nirguna, depending on the needs of the individual. The bhakta saguna meditation is found in verses 91 and 92. His form is described in detail, and placed, as in this verse (113), in the heart. Looking through these verses again, in reference to vs. 113, I realized there seems to be a clear division of subject from verse 109 to verse 119. All of these verses describe or explain this nirguna practice of meditation which occurs at anahata chakra, or in the heart. For brevity's sake I'll just compare vs. 110 with the present verse. Verse 110 says that because of the guru we can perceive our own soul, and that "...by means of this path of the Guru, the wisdom of one's own soul arises." Verse 113 says that this being "...who is higher than the highest," lives in the heart, which coincidentally, is where the individual soul is also found. This being "...illuminates the purest clarity," which to me means wisdom. In verse 114, we find that the individual soul is indeed "...the reflection of infinite consciousness." So, it seems vs. 110 and 113 run pretty parallel to one another, one seemingly discussing the devotee's soul, and the other apparently discussing the transcendent presence of the guru, but both actually describing the same thing. Hope I didn't bore anyone too much. , Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote: > > Today we have reached 113 and here's how the verse reads - > > > > "Meditate upon that being who is higher that the highest. He is the cause of eternal bliss. He resides within the space of your heart and illuminates the purest clarity." > > > > Comment: Here again we see the greatness of this Being call Guru. There is none higher than the Guru, the Guru has attained the highest possible level of consciousness and is in total union with Her/His soul. Always remembering the greatness of this Pure Being established upon a throne within the heart, perform all duties with non-attachment Do your duty as a service to the God and humanity and see God alone in everything. When we can remember that all works are done by the energy of nature and we are but only instruments, then the bliss of being (clarity) is illuminated. > > > > Pranams to Beloved Gurujis. > > > > Kalia > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 OM NAMAH SIVAYA Chris thank you for this(and the post on pranayama). but i am not sure i understand your point. it seems what your driving at is that this text basically says that irrespective of jnani or bhakti, individual or universal soul, meditation is focused in the anahata (heart) chakra vs. say the ajna(3rd eye) chakra. not at all boring. JAI MA , "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956> wrote: > Kalia, > > I had been wanting to point out the meditation aspect of this verse. > As in so many other verses previous to this, we are enjoined to > meditate upon the guru. > > I began by looking through the text for the other meditation verses > and began to see patterns. The problem is, they are not simple, or > obvious patterns. > > I have mentioned before the mixing of the transcendental and the > material, the guru as God and the guru as human, in the Guru Gita. In > looking through the meditation passages there appear to be other > examples of the same thing, as well as, perhaps, underlying themes. > > One such intermingling of seemingly disparate ideas is that of bhakti > and jnana, worship and wisdom. The message seems to be that as the > guru herself is the personification of union of the apparently > disparate, so the path of the guru unites the paths of bhakti and > jnana. Passages meant to appeal to the jnani, and passages meant to > appeal to the bhakta, are intermingled, as are passages apparently > representing the union of those principle paths. > > In the Guru Gita we are from time to time enjoined to do something, > perform some act in relation to the guru. This is practice, the > application (beyond that of repetition of the mantras). Sometimes we > are told simply to bow in recognition of some particular aspect of the > guru. Sometimes we are told to repeat the mantra of the guru, or > repeat the name of the guru. Sometimes we are told to worship. > Sometimes we are told to serve. Sometimes we are told to remember, > with love and reverence. Sometimes we are told to contemplate, > sometimes intuit. Sometimes we are told to meditate. > > Leaving aside the dhyanam, the first time we are told to meditate on > the guru is vs.15. We are told to "Always meditate upon the guru, > [and] always recite the mantra of the guru." This is a primary > meditative practice, an easy one that can be done anywhere, anytime. > The idea is to make the gurudeva part of you, to fulfill your impulse > to surrender and devote yourself to the gurudeva. So, in verse 18 it > says, "Eternally remembering the image of the guru, always making > recitation of the name of the guru, always observing the instruction > of the guru, always maintain the attitude of none other than the > guru." In the next verse, we are told to meditate on the guru "...just > as a loving woman dreams of her husband," and in the verse after that > (vs.20), to "Deeply intuit the attitude of the guru and no other," > followed by (vs.21) "Not contemplating anything other than me..." > > If you remember back to the...hmmm...I've spaced it. You know, the > beginning;the statement of purpose, where the meter, shakti, deva, > etc. are stated, anyway, it says the purpose of this recitation is the > attainment of perfection in the blessings of the guru. > > So the first step of that seems to be the development of guru bhava, > through constant remembrance, contemplation, and meditation on the > guru with the guru mantra (if you have one). > > Next seems to come service, and then some more advanced, or shall we > say subtle, meditation practices (which brings me, sort of, back to > the verses we are looking at now, and for the next few days). > > Now, the meditation practices given here, separate and distinct from > those whose purpose is mindfulness of, and connection with the guru, > seem to be of two major types (with one subdivision). The first is for > jnanis, or those who are more oriented toward the intellect, and the > second is for bhaktas, or those who are more heart oriented. Within > the bhakti meditations are one (the first) where the guru is saguna > (with qualities), he has a form, and the second, where the guru is > nirguna (without qualities), and this one is the subject of the > current study (vs. 113). > > If you want to look back, you can see the jnani meditation in verses > 57 and 58. This meditation can be either saguna or nirguna, depending > on the needs of the individual. > > The bhakta saguna meditation is found in verses 91 and 92. His form is > described in detail, and placed, as in this verse (113), in the heart. > > Looking through these verses again, in reference to vs. 113, I > realized there seems to be a clear division of subject from verse 109 > to verse 119. All of these verses describe or explain this nirguna > practice of meditation which occurs at anahata chakra, or in the heart. > > For brevity's sake I'll just compare vs. 110 with the present > verse. Verse 110 says that because of the guru we can perceive our own > soul, and that "...by means of this path of the Guru, the wisdom of > one's own soul arises." > > Verse 113 says that this being "...who is higher than the highest," > lives in the heart, which coincidentally, is where the individual soul > is also found. This being "...illuminates the purest clarity," which > to me means wisdom. > > In verse 114, we find that the individual soul is indeed "...the > reflection of infinite consciousness." So, it seems vs. 110 and 113 > run pretty parallel to one another, one seemingly discussing the > devotee's soul, and the other apparently discussing the transcendent > presence of the guru, but both actually describing the same thing. > > Hope I didn't bore anyone too much. > > > > > , Kali Kali > <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote: > > > > Today we have reached 113 and here's how the verse reads - > > > > > > > > "Meditate upon that being who is higher that the highest. He is the > cause of eternal bliss. He resides within the space of your heart and > illuminates the purest clarity." > > > > > > > > Comment: Here again we see the greatness of this Being call Guru. > There is none higher than the Guru, the Guru has attained the highest > possible level of consciousness and is in total union with Her/His > soul. Always remembering the greatness of this Pure Being established > upon a throne within the heart, perform all duties with > non-attachment Do your duty as a service to the God and humanity and > see God alone in everything. When we can remember that all works are > done by the energy of nature and we are but only instruments, then the > bliss of being (clarity) is illuminated. > > > > > > > > Pranams to Beloved Gurujis. > > > > > > > > Kalia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Chrisji, that's a very interesting analysis you present, which I'll have to study in depth. Just one thought which occurred to me: the 'point' where the Guru first touches us, the 'point of contact' or the 'spark'; isn't that the heart of our being? And isn't it (starting) from there that the two wings of jnani and bhakti are developed? with love, Henny -- In , "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956@y.. ..> wrote: > Kalia, > > I had been wanting to point out the meditation aspect of this verse. > As in so many other verses previous to this, we are enjoined to > meditate upon the guru. > > I began by looking through the text for the other meditation verses > and began to see patterns. The problem is, they are not simple, or > obvious patterns. > > I have mentioned before the mixing of the transcendental and the > material, the guru as God and the guru as human, in the Guru Gita. In > looking through the meditation passages there appear to be other > examples of the same thing, as well as, perhaps, underlying themes. > > One such intermingling of seemingly disparate ideas is that of bhakti > and jnana, worship and wisdom. The message seems to be that as the > guru herself is the personification of union of the apparently > disparate, so the path of the guru unites the paths of bhakti and > jnana. Passages meant to appeal to the jnani, and passages meant to > appeal to the bhakta, are intermingled, as are passages apparently > representing the union of those principle paths. > > In the Guru Gita we are from time to time enjoined to do something, > perform some act in relation to the guru. This is practice, the > application (beyond that of repetition of the mantras). Sometimes we > are told simply to bow in recognition of some particular aspect of the > guru. Sometimes we are told to repeat the mantra of the guru, or > repeat the name of the guru. Sometimes we are told to worship. > Sometimes we are told to serve. Sometimes we are told to remember, > with love and reverence. Sometimes we are told to contemplate, > sometimes intuit. Sometimes we are told to meditate. > > Leaving aside the dhyanam, the first time we are told to meditate on > the guru is vs.15. We are told to "Always meditate upon the guru, > [and] always recite the mantra of the guru." This is a primary > meditative practice, an easy one that can be done anywhere, anytime. > The idea is to make the gurudeva part of you, to fulfill your impulse > to surrender and devote yourself to the gurudeva. So, in verse 18 it > says, "Eternally remembering the image of the guru, always making > recitation of the name of the guru, always observing the instruction > of the guru, always maintain the attitude of none other than the > guru." In the next verse, we are told to meditate on the guru "... just > as a loving woman dreams of her husband," and in the verse after that > (vs.20), to "Deeply intuit the attitude of the guru and no other," > followed by (vs.21) "Not contemplating anything other than me..." > > If you remember back to the...hmmm...I've spaced it. You know, the > beginning;the statement of purpose, where the meter, shakti, deva, > etc. are stated, anyway, it says the purpose of this recitation is the > attainment of perfection in the blessings of the guru. > > So the first step of that seems to be the development of guru bhava, > through constant remembrance, contemplation, and meditation on the > guru with the guru mantra (if you have one). > > Next seems to come service, and then some more advanced, or shall we > say subtle, meditation practices (which brings me, sort of, back to > the verses we are looking at now, and for the next few days). > > Now, the meditation practices given here, separate and distinct from > those whose purpose is mindfulness of, and connection with the guru, > seem to be of two major types (with one subdivision). The first is for > jnanis, or those who are more oriented toward the intellect, and the > second is for bhaktas, or those who are more heart oriented. Within > the bhakti meditations are one (the first) where the guru is saguna > (with qualities), he has a form, and the second, where the guru is > nirguna (without qualities), and this one is the subject of the > current study (vs. 113). > > If you want to look back, you can see the jnani meditation in verses > 57 and 58. This meditation can be either saguna or nirguna, depending > on the needs of the individual. > > The bhakta saguna meditation is found in verses 91 and 92. His form is > described in detail, and placed, as in this verse (113), in the heart. > > Looking through these verses again, in reference to vs. 113, I > realized there seems to be a clear division of subject from verse 109 > to verse 119. All of these verses describe or explain this nirguna > practice of meditation which occurs at anahata chakra, or in the heart. > > For brevity's sake I'll just compare vs. 110 with the present > verse. Verse 110 says that because of the guru we can perceive our own > soul, and that "...by means of this path of the Guru, the wisdom of > one's own soul arises." > > Verse 113 says that this being "...who is higher than the highest," > lives in the heart, which coincidentally, is where the individual soul > is also found. This being "...illuminates the purest clarity," which > to me means wisdom. > > In verse 114, we find that the individual soul is indeed "...the > reflection of infinite consciousness." So, it seems vs. 110 and 113 > run pretty parallel to one another, one seemingly discussing the > devotee's soul, and the other apparently discussing the transcendent > presence of the guru, but both actually describing the same thing. > > Hope I didn't bore anyone too much. > > > > > , Kali Kali > <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote: > > > > Today we have reached 113 and here's how the verse reads - > > > > > > > > "Meditate upon that being who is higher that the highest. He is the > cause of eternal bliss. He resides within the space of your heart and > illuminates the purest clarity." > > > > > > > > Comment: Here again we see the greatness of this Being call Guru. > There is none higher than the Guru, the Guru has attained the highest > possible level of consciousness and is in total union with Her/His > soul. Always remembering the greatness of this Pure Being established > upon a throne within the heart, perform all duties with > non-attachment Do your duty as a service to the God and humanity and > see God alone in everything. When we can remember that all works are > done by the energy of nature and we are but only instruments, then the > bliss of being (clarity) is illuminated. > > > > > > > > Pranams to Beloved Gurujis. > > > > > > > > Kalia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 First let me say, you never bore me as you always send me to research and seek out information and for this I am very thankful. Now ..... WOW Chris. Kalia cannot really respond to you straight off, need a bit to take in all that you have shared . What this child recognised is that you made mention of bhakti, jnana and meditation but what of activity? Quoting from Kaspapa Sutra #1: final para on pg 12 of the Guru Gita, here is what our Beloved Swamiji says - "Traditionally, there are four aspects of yoga: Dhyana - meditation, jnana - wisdom, bhakti-devotion, and karma - activity. These four are inseparably connected but spoken of as four different diciplines so that seekers can intellectually understand the distinctions between them. However, in reality, without devotion how can we pay attention? Without knowledge how can we perform effective action? Without effective action how can we gain knowledge? Thus the four aspects of yoga are inseparably connected in the path of union, and are not different disciplines, but actually are the four components of one path." .......WOW dear brother thank you for this opportunity . This is krypa. Pranams. Kalia Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > wrote: Kalia,I had been wanting to point out the meditation aspect of this verse.As in so many other verses previous to this, we are enjoined tomeditate upon the guru.I began by looking through the text for the other meditation versesand began to see patterns. The problem is, they are not simple, orobvious patterns.I have mentioned before the mixing of the transcendental and thematerial, the guru as God and the guru as human, in the Guru Gita. Inlooking through the meditation passages there appear to be otherexamples of the same thing, as well as, perhaps, underlying themes.One such intermingling of seemingly disparate ideas is that of bhaktiand jnana, worship and wisdom. The message seems to be that as theguru herself is the personification of union of the apparentlydisparate, so the path of the guru unites the paths of bhakti andjnana. Passages meant to appeal to the jnani, and passages meant toappeal to the bhakta, are intermingled, as are passages apparentlyrepresenting the union of those principle paths.In the Guru Gita we are from time to time enjoined to do something,perform some act in relation to the guru. This is practice, theapplication (beyond that of repetition of the mantras). Sometimes weare told simply to bow in recognition of some particular aspect of theguru. Sometimes we are told to repeat the mantra of the guru, orrepeat the name of the guru. Sometimes we are told to worship.Sometimes we are told to serve. Sometimes we are told to remember,with love and reverence. Sometimes we are told to contemplate,sometimes intuit. Sometimes we are told to meditate.Leaving aside the dhyanam, the first time we are told to meditate onthe guru is vs.15. We are told to "Always meditate upon the guru,[and] always recite the mantra of the guru." This is a primarymeditative practice, an easy one that can be done anywhere, anytime.The idea is to make the gurudeva part of you, to fulfill your impulseto surrender and devote yourself to the gurudeva. So, in verse 18 itsays, "Eternally remembering the image of the guru, always makingrecitation of the name of the guru, always observing the instructionof the guru, always maintain the attitude of none other than theguru." In the next verse, we are told to meditate on the guru "...justas a loving woman dreams of her husband," and in the verse after that(vs.20), to "Deeply intuit the attitude of the guru and no other,"followed by (vs.21) "Not contemplating anything other than me..."If you remember back to the...hmmm...I've spaced it. You know, thebeginning;the statement of purpose, where the meter, shakti, deva,etc. are stated, anyway, it says the purpose of this recitation is theattainment of perfection in the blessings of the guru.So the first step of that seems to be the development of guru bhava,through constant remembrance, contemplation, and meditation on theguru with the guru mantra (if you have one).Next seems to come service, and then some more advanced, or shall wesay subtle, meditation practices (which brings me, sort of, back tothe verses we are looking at now, and for the next few days).Now, the meditation practices given here, separate and distinct fromthose whose purpose is mindfulness of, and connection with the guru,seem to be of two major types (with one subdivision). The first is forjnanis, or those who are more oriented toward the intellect, and thesecond is for bhaktas, or those who are more heart oriented. Withinthe bhakti meditations are one (the first) where the guru is saguna(with qualities), he has a form, and the second, where the guru isnirguna (without qualities), and this one is the subject of thecurrent study (vs. 113).If you want to look back, you can see the jnani meditation in verses57 and 58. This meditation can be either saguna or nirguna, dependingon the needs of the individual.The bhakta saguna meditation is found in verses 91 and 92. His form isdescribed in detail, and placed, as in this verse (113), in the heart.Looking through these verses again, in reference to vs. 113, Irealized there seems to be a clear division of subject from verse 109to verse 119. All of these verses describe or explain this nirgunapractice of meditation which occurs at anahata chakra, or in the heart.For brevity's sake I'll just compare vs. 110 with the presentverse. Verse 110 says that because of the guru we can perceive our ownsoul, and that "...by means of this path of the Guru, the wisdom ofone's own soul arises."Verse 113 says that this being "...who is higher than the highest,"lives in the heart, which coincidentally, is where the individual soulis also found. This being "...illuminates the purest clarity," whichto me means wisdom. In verse 114, we find that the individual soul is indeed "...thereflection of infinite consciousness." So, it seems vs. 110 and 113run pretty parallel to one another, one seemingly discussing thedevotee's soul, and the other apparently discussing the transcendentpresence of the guru, but both actually describing the same thing.Hope I didn't bore anyone too much. , Kali Kali<kaliananda_saraswati> wrote:> > Today we have reached 113 and here's how the verse reads -> > > > "Meditate upon that being who is higher that the highest. He is thecause of eternal bliss. He resides within the space of your heart andilluminates the purest clarity."> > > > Comment: Here again we see the greatness of this Being call Guru.There is none higher than the Guru, the Guru has attained the highestpossible level of consciousness and is in total union with Her/Hissoul. Always remembering the greatness of this Pure Being establishedupon a throne within the heart, perform all duties withnon-attachment Do your duty as a service to the God and humanity andsee God alone in everything. When we can remember that all works aredone by the energy of nature and we are but only instruments, then thebliss of being (clarity) is illuminated.> > > > Pranams to Beloved Gurujis.> > > > Kalia> > > > > > > Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Thanks Henny. Love Kaliahenny_v_i <HvI (AT) SoftHome (DOT) net> wrote: Dear Kalia,your comment is very beautiful. >Always remembering the greatness of this Pure Being established upon >a throne within the heart, perform all duties with non-attachment.I've had difficulties for a long time with the concept of the Most High 'residing within the space of your heart', but now that it's no longer a concept I have found that it is true, it is true, it is all true! May we always remember,with love,Henny , Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote:> > Today we have reached 113 and here's how the verse reads -> > > > "Meditate upon that being who is higher that the highest. He is the cause of eternal bliss. He resides within the space of your heart and illuminates the purest clarity."> > > > Comment: Here again we see the greatness of this Being call Guru. There is none higher than the Guru, the Guru has attained the highest possible level of consciousness and is in total union with Her/His soul. Always remembering the greatness of this Pure Being established upon a throne within the heart, perform all duties with non-attachment Do your duty as a service to the God and humanity and see God alone in everything. When we can remember that all works are done by the energy of nature and we are but only instruments, then the bliss of being (clarity) is illuminated.> > > > Pranams to Beloved Gurujis.> > > > Kalia> > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around > Mail - You care about security. So do we. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2005 Report Share Posted May 15, 2005 Hi Eric (it is Eric, isn't it...), I'm not sure I had a point about at least some of what I wrote. I began by researching the verses on meditation and discovered what seemed to me to be patterns, in the verses on meditation, but also in the text as a whole, that i had not realized were there. To me, as I assume to most, the Guru Gita seems largely a collection of mostly random, but related verses. I am beginning to think it is more systematic than that. In my research on meditation in the Guru Gita I discovered that the initial verses refered to a kind of meditation that seems to be intended to promote a kind of gurubhava, a kind of guru meditation in action. Then there are the three sections describing more formal, more esoteric, meditation. Within these three examples, two involved heart meditation, and one involved meditation on ajna and sahasrara. My attribution of these two categories to bhaktas and jnanis, respectively, was only intended as a loose attribution, related to the pattern of alternating verses mostly oriented toward either devotion or knowledge (with some seeming to blend the two). As I understand these things, in meditative traditions, when a new student receives training she is given either the heart or the ajna chakra as a focus for her meditation practice by the gurudeva. This is done according to the individual nature of the student. More intellectual people are generally given ajna, while the more emotional folks are generally given anahata. Thus my loose attribution of these meditations to jnanis and bhaktas. The current verse, verse 113, in fact, the group of verses from 109 to 119, describe a heart meditation. This one is a nirguna meditation (meditation on the guru/purusha without a body). The other heart meditation is saguna (with attributes [a body]). Actually, it is possible that this nirguna meditation in the heart represents the beginning of the final union of bhakti and jnana, as the wisdom of the soul arises in the meditation. I hope I answered your question. Jai Maa! Chris , "ecjensen_us" <ecjensen_us> wrote: > OM NAMAH SIVAYA > > Chris thank you for this(and the post on pranayama). but i am not > sure i understand your point. it seems what your driving at is that > this text basically says that irrespective of jnani or bhakti, > individual or universal soul, meditation is focused in the anahata > (heart) chakra vs. say the ajna(3rd eye) chakra. not at all boring. > > JAI MA > > , "Chris Kirner" > <chriskirner1956> wrote: > > Kalia, > > > > I had been wanting to point out the meditation aspect of this > verse. > > As in so many other verses previous to this, we are enjoined to > > meditate upon the guru. > > > > I began by looking through the text for the other meditation verses > > and began to see patterns. The problem is, they are not simple, or > > obvious patterns. > > > > I have mentioned before the mixing of the transcendental and the > > material, the guru as God and the guru as human, in the Guru Gita. > In > > looking through the meditation passages there appear to be other > > examples of the same thing, as well as, perhaps, underlying themes. > > > > One such intermingling of seemingly disparate ideas is that of > bhakti > > and jnana, worship and wisdom. The message seems to be that as the > > guru herself is the personification of union of the apparently > > disparate, so the path of the guru unites the paths of bhakti and > > jnana. Passages meant to appeal to the jnani, and passages meant to > > appeal to the bhakta, are intermingled, as are passages apparently > > representing the union of those principle paths. > > > > In the Guru Gita we are from time to time enjoined to do something, > > perform some act in relation to the guru. This is practice, the > > application (beyond that of repetition of the mantras). Sometimes > we > > are told simply to bow in recognition of some particular aspect of > the > > guru. Sometimes we are told to repeat the mantra of the guru, or > > repeat the name of the guru. Sometimes we are told to worship. > > Sometimes we are told to serve. Sometimes we are told to remember, > > with love and reverence. Sometimes we are told to contemplate, > > sometimes intuit. Sometimes we are told to meditate. > > > > Leaving aside the dhyanam, the first time we are told to meditate > on > > the guru is vs.15. We are told to "Always meditate upon the guru, > > [and] always recite the mantra of the guru." This is a primary > > meditative practice, an easy one that can be done anywhere, > anytime. > > The idea is to make the gurudeva part of you, to fulfill your > impulse > > to surrender and devote yourself to the gurudeva. So, in verse 18 > it > > says, "Eternally remembering the image of the guru, always making > > recitation of the name of the guru, always observing the > instruction > > of the guru, always maintain the attitude of none other than the > > guru." In the next verse, we are told to meditate on the > guru "...just > > as a loving woman dreams of her husband," and in the verse after > that > > (vs.20), to "Deeply intuit the attitude of the guru and no other," > > followed by (vs.21) "Not contemplating anything other than me..." > > > > If you remember back to the...hmmm...I've spaced it. You know, the > > beginning;the statement of purpose, where the meter, shakti, deva, > > etc. are stated, anyway, it says the purpose of this recitation is > the > > attainment of perfection in the blessings of the guru. > > > > So the first step of that seems to be the development of guru > bhava, > > through constant remembrance, contemplation, and meditation on the > > guru with the guru mantra (if you have one). > > > > Next seems to come service, and then some more advanced, or shall > we > > say subtle, meditation practices (which brings me, sort of, back to > > the verses we are looking at now, and for the next few days). > > > > Now, the meditation practices given here, separate and distinct > from > > those whose purpose is mindfulness of, and connection with the > guru, > > seem to be of two major types (with one subdivision). The first is > for > > jnanis, or those who are more oriented toward the intellect, and > the > > second is for bhaktas, or those who are more heart oriented. Within > > the bhakti meditations are one (the first) where the guru is saguna > > (with qualities), he has a form, and the second, where the guru is > > nirguna (without qualities), and this one is the subject of the > > current study (vs. 113). > > > > If you want to look back, you can see the jnani meditation in > verses > > 57 and 58. This meditation can be either saguna or nirguna, > depending > > on the needs of the individual. > > > > The bhakta saguna meditation is found in verses 91 and 92. His > form is > > described in detail, and placed, as in this verse (113), in the > heart. > > > > Looking through these verses again, in reference to vs. 113, I > > realized there seems to be a clear division of subject from verse > 109 > > to verse 119. All of these verses describe or explain this nirguna > > practice of meditation which occurs at anahata chakra, or in the > heart. > > > > For brevity's sake I'll just compare vs. 110 with the present > > verse. Verse 110 says that because of the guru we can perceive our > own > > soul, and that "...by means of this path of the Guru, the wisdom of > > one's own soul arises." > > > > Verse 113 says that this being "...who is higher than the highest," > > lives in the heart, which coincidentally, is where the individual > soul > > is also found. This being "...illuminates the purest clarity," > which > > to me means wisdom. > > > > In verse 114, we find that the individual soul is indeed "...the > > reflection of infinite consciousness." So, it seems vs. 110 and 113 > > run pretty parallel to one another, one seemingly discussing the > > devotee's soul, and the other apparently discussing the > transcendent > > presence of the guru, but both actually describing the same thing. > > > > Hope I didn't bore anyone too much. > > > > > > > > > > , Kali Kali > > <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote: > > > > > > Today we have reached 113 and here's how the verse reads - > > > > > > > > > > > > "Meditate upon that being who is higher that the highest. He is > the > > cause of eternal bliss. He resides within the space of your heart > and > > illuminates the purest clarity." > > > > > > > > > > > > Comment: Here again we see the greatness of this Being call Guru. > > There is none higher than the Guru, the Guru has attained the > highest > > possible level of consciousness and is in total union with Her/His > > soul. Always remembering the greatness of this Pure Being > established > > upon a throne within the heart, perform all duties with > > non-attachment Do your duty as a service to the God and humanity > and > > see God alone in everything. When we can remember that all works > are > > done by the energy of nature and we are but only instruments, then > the > > bliss of being (clarity) is illuminated. > > > > > > > > > > > > Pranams to Beloved Gurujis. > > > > > > > > > > > > Kalia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2005 Report Share Posted May 15, 2005 Henny, I can't really say I know for sure. Whatever it is that the guru gives is beyond my ken. I do have a sense though, that each of us is unique, and that whatever we receive from the guru, it is for us, and its expression is ours alone (with the guru, of course). One thing I am fairly certain of though, is that jnana and bhakti are the same pure expressions of the one reality. We receive a spark of that one thing, and because of our imperfections, express it only imperfectly. But eventually, perfection in one automatically brings perfection in the other. Jai Maa! Chris , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote: > Chrisji, > > that's a very interesting analysis you present, which I'll have to > study in depth. Just one thought which occurred to me: the 'point' > where the Guru first touches us, the 'point of contact' or the > 'spark'; isn't that the heart of our being? And isn't it (starting) > from there that the two wings of jnani and bhakti are developed? > > with love, > Henny > > > -- In , "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956@y.. > .> wrote: > > Kalia, > > > > I had been wanting to point out the meditation aspect of this verse. > > As in so many other verses previous to this, we are enjoined to > > meditate upon the guru. > > > > I began by looking through the text for the other meditation verses > > and began to see patterns. The problem is, they are not simple, or > > obvious patterns. > > > > I have mentioned before the mixing of the transcendental and the > > material, the guru as God and the guru as human, in the Guru Gita. > In > > looking through the meditation passages there appear to be other > > examples of the same thing, as well as, perhaps, underlying themes. > > > > One such intermingling of seemingly disparate ideas is that of > bhakti > > and jnana, worship and wisdom. The message seems to be that as the > > guru herself is the personification of union of the apparently > > disparate, so the path of the guru unites the paths of bhakti and > > jnana. Passages meant to appeal to the jnani, and passages meant to > > appeal to the bhakta, are intermingled, as are passages apparently > > representing the union of those principle paths. > > > > In the Guru Gita we are from time to time enjoined to do something, > > perform some act in relation to the guru. This is practice, the > > application (beyond that of repetition of the mantras). Sometimes we > > are told simply to bow in recognition of some particular aspect of > the > > guru. Sometimes we are told to repeat the mantra of the guru, or > > repeat the name of the guru. Sometimes we are told to worship. > > Sometimes we are told to serve. Sometimes we are told to remember, > > with love and reverence. Sometimes we are told to contemplate, > > sometimes intuit. Sometimes we are told to meditate. > > > > Leaving aside the dhyanam, the first time we are told to meditate on > > the guru is vs.15. We are told to "Always meditate upon the guru, > > [and] always recite the mantra of the guru." This is a primary > > meditative practice, an easy one that can be done anywhere, anytime. > > The idea is to make the gurudeva part of you, to fulfill your > impulse > > to surrender and devote yourself to the gurudeva. So, in verse 18 it > > says, "Eternally remembering the image of the guru, always making > > recitation of the name of the guru, always observing the instruction > > of the guru, always maintain the attitude of none other than the > > guru." In the next verse, we are told to meditate on the guru "... > just > > as a loving woman dreams of her husband," and in the verse after > that > > (vs.20), to "Deeply intuit the attitude of the guru and no other," > > followed by (vs.21) "Not contemplating anything other than me..." > > > > If you remember back to the...hmmm...I've spaced it. You know, the > > beginning;the statement of purpose, where the meter, shakti, deva, > > etc. are stated, anyway, it says the purpose of this recitation is > the > > attainment of perfection in the blessings of the guru. > > > > So the first step of that seems to be the development of guru bhava, > > through constant remembrance, contemplation, and meditation on the > > guru with the guru mantra (if you have one). > > > > Next seems to come service, and then some more advanced, or shall we > > say subtle, meditation practices (which brings me, sort of, back to > > the verses we are looking at now, and for the next few days). > > > > Now, the meditation practices given here, separate and distinct from > > those whose purpose is mindfulness of, and connection with the guru, > > seem to be of two major types (with one subdivision). The first is > for > > jnanis, or those who are more oriented toward the intellect, and the > > second is for bhaktas, or those who are more heart oriented. Within > > the bhakti meditations are one (the first) where the guru is saguna > > (with qualities), he has a form, and the second, where the guru is > > nirguna (without qualities), and this one is the subject of the > > current study (vs. 113). > > > > If you want to look back, you can see the jnani meditation in verses > > 57 and 58. This meditation can be either saguna or nirguna, > depending > > on the needs of the individual. > > > > The bhakta saguna meditation is found in verses 91 and 92. His form > is > > described in detail, and placed, as in this verse (113), in the > heart. > > > > Looking through these verses again, in reference to vs. 113, I > > realized there seems to be a clear division of subject from verse > 109 > > to verse 119. All of these verses describe or explain this nirguna > > practice of meditation which occurs at anahata chakra, or in the > heart. > > > > For brevity's sake I'll just compare vs. 110 with the present > > verse. Verse 110 says that because of the guru we can perceive our > own > > soul, and that "...by means of this path of the Guru, the wisdom of > > one's own soul arises." > > > > Verse 113 says that this being "...who is higher than the highest," > > lives in the heart, which coincidentally, is where the individual > soul > > is also found. This being "...illuminates the purest clarity," which > > to me means wisdom. > > > > In verse 114, we find that the individual soul is indeed "...the > > reflection of infinite consciousness." So, it seems vs. 110 and 113 > > run pretty parallel to one another, one seemingly discussing the > > devotee's soul, and the other apparently discussing the transcendent > > presence of the guru, but both actually describing the same thing. > > > > Hope I didn't bore anyone too much. > > > > > > > > > > , Kali Kali > > <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote: > > > > > > Today we have reached 113 and here's how the verse reads - > > > > > > > > > > > > "Meditate upon that being who is higher that the highest. He is > the > > cause of eternal bliss. He resides within the space of your heart > and > > illuminates the purest clarity." > > > > > > > > > > > > Comment: Here again we see the greatness of this Being call Guru. > > There is none higher than the Guru, the Guru has attained the > highest > > possible level of consciousness and is in total union with Her/His > > soul. Always remembering the greatness of this Pure Being > established > > upon a throne within the heart, perform all duties with > > non-attachment Do your duty as a service to the God and humanity > and > > see God alone in everything. When we can remember that all works > are > > done by the energy of nature and we are but only instruments, then > the > > bliss of being (clarity) is illuminated. > > > > > > > > > > > > Pranams to Beloved Gurujis. > > > > > > > > > > > > Kalia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2005 Report Share Posted May 15, 2005 Kalia, I'm glad you found some value in my comments. Truely, Kalia, if you don't find you have any response to my comments, though, you don't have to answer. It is enough if you read. They're for everyone; no need to feel put on the spot. Yes, I did leave a lot out, but despite the length of my post, I was very aware of the need (struggle) for brevity. This particular verse (collection of verses) refers to a meditation, so I wanted to tie my discussion in with the other meditation verses. The other stuff I included seemed to at least have a tangential relationship with the topic. I think there is value in looking at the structure of the scripture, as well as the meanings of each verse. Where there is structure there is purpose, and it can be meaningful to perhaps understand why something was written a certain way. Besides, I enjoy making connections, even if they don't hold-up in the end Jai Maa! Jia Gurudeva! Chris , Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote: > Dear Chris, > > First let me say, you never bore me as you always send me to research and seek out information and for this I am very thankful. Now ..... WOW Chris. Kalia cannot really respond to you straight off, need a bit to take in all that you have shared . What this child recognised is that you made mention of bhakti, jnana and meditation but what of activity? > > Quoting from Kaspapa Sutra #1: final para on pg 12 of the Guru Gita, here is what our Beloved Swamiji says - > "Traditionally, there are four aspects of yoga: Dhyana - meditation, jnana - wisdom, bhakti-devotion, and karma - activity. These four are inseparably connected but spoken of as four different diciplines so that seekers can intellectually understand the distinctions between them. However, in reality, without devotion how can we pay attention? Without knowledge how can we perform effective action? Without effective action how can we gain knowledge? Thus the four aspects of yoga are inseparably connected in the path of union, and are not different disciplines, but actually are the four components of one path." > > ......WOW dear brother thank you for this opportunity . > > This is krypa. Pranams. > > Kalia > > > Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956> wrote: > Kalia, > > I had been wanting to point out the meditation aspect of this verse. > As in so many other verses previous to this, we are enjoined to > meditate upon the guru. > > I began by looking through the text for the other meditation verses > and began to see patterns. The problem is, they are not simple, or > obvious patterns. > > I have mentioned before the mixing of the transcendental and the > material, the guru as God and the guru as human, in the Guru Gita. In > looking through the meditation passages there appear to be other > examples of the same thing, as well as, perhaps, underlying themes. > > One such intermingling of seemingly disparate ideas is that of bhakti > and jnana, worship and wisdom. The message seems to be that as the > guru herself is the personification of union of the apparently > disparate, so the path of the guru unites the paths of bhakti and > jnana. Passages meant to appeal to the jnani, and passages meant to > appeal to the bhakta, are intermingled, as are passages apparently > representing the union of those principle paths. > > In the Guru Gita we are from time to time enjoined to do something, > perform some act in relation to the guru. This is practice, the > application (beyond that of repetition of the mantras). Sometimes we > are told simply to bow in recognition of some particular aspect of the > guru. Sometimes we are told to repeat the mantra of the guru, or > repeat the name of the guru. Sometimes we are told to worship. > Sometimes we are told to serve. Sometimes we are told to remember, > with love and reverence. Sometimes we are told to contemplate, > sometimes intuit. Sometimes we are told to meditate. > > Leaving aside the dhyanam, the first time we are told to meditate on > the guru is vs.15. We are told to "Always meditate upon the guru, > [and] always recite the mantra of the guru." This is a primary > meditative practice, an easy one that can be done anywhere, anytime. > The idea is to make the gurudeva part of you, to fulfill your impulse > to surrender and devote yourself to the gurudeva. So, in verse 18 it > says, "Eternally remembering the image of the guru, always making > recitation of the name of the guru, always observing the instruction > of the guru, always maintain the attitude of none other than the > guru." In the next verse, we are told to meditate on the guru "...just > as a loving woman dreams of her husband," and in the verse after that > (vs.20), to "Deeply intuit the attitude of the guru and no other," > followed by (vs.21) "Not contemplating anything other than me..." > > If you remember back to the...hmmm...I've spaced it. You know, the > beginning;the statement of purpose, where the meter, shakti, deva, > etc. are stated, anyway, it says the purpose of this recitation is the > attainment of perfection in the blessings of the guru. > > So the first step of that seems to be the development of guru bhava, > through constant remembrance, contemplation, and meditation on the > guru with the guru mantra (if you have one). > > Next seems to come service, and then some more advanced, or shall we > say subtle, meditation practices (which brings me, sort of, back to > the verses we are looking at now, and for the next few days). > > Now, the meditation practices given here, separate and distinct from > those whose purpose is mindfulness of, and connection with the guru, > seem to be of two major types (with one subdivision). The first is for > jnanis, or those who are more oriented toward the intellect, and the > second is for bhaktas, or those who are more heart oriented. Within > the bhakti meditations are one (the first) where the guru is saguna > (with qualities), he has a form, and the second, where the guru is > nirguna (without qualities), and this one is the subject of the > current study (vs. 113). > > If you want to look back, you can see the jnani meditation in verses > 57 and 58. This meditation can be either saguna or nirguna, depending > on the needs of the individual. > > The bhakta saguna meditation is found in verses 91 and 92. His form is > described in detail, and placed, as in this verse (113), in the heart. > > Looking through these verses again, in reference to vs. 113, I > realized there seems to be a clear division of subject from verse 109 > to verse 119. All of these verses describe or explain this nirguna > practice of meditation which occurs at anahata chakra, or in the heart. > > For brevity's sake I'll just compare vs. 110 with the present > verse. Verse 110 says that because of the guru we can perceive our own > soul, and that "...by means of this path of the Guru, the wisdom of > one's own soul arises." > > Verse 113 says that this being "...who is higher than the highest," > lives in the heart, which coincidentally, is where the individual soul > is also found. This being "...illuminates the purest clarity," which > to me means wisdom. > > In verse 114, we find that the individual soul is indeed "...the > reflection of infinite consciousness." So, it seems vs. 110 and 113 > run pretty parallel to one another, one seemingly discussing the > devotee's soul, and the other apparently discussing the transcendent > presence of the guru, but both actually describing the same thing. > > Hope I didn't bore anyone too much. > > > > > , Kali Kali > <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote: > > > > Today we have reached 113 and here's how the verse reads - > > > > > > > > "Meditate upon that being who is higher that the highest. He is the > cause of eternal bliss. He resides within the space of your heart and > illuminates the purest clarity." > > > > > > > > Comment: Here again we see the greatness of this Being call Guru. > There is none higher than the Guru, the Guru has attained the highest > possible level of consciousness and is in total union with Her/His > soul. Always remembering the greatness of this Pure Being established > upon a throne within the heart, perform all duties with > non-attachment Do your duty as a service to the God and humanity and > see God alone in everything. When we can remember that all works are > done by the energy of nature and we are but only instruments, then the > bliss of being (clarity) is illuminated. > > > > > > > > Pranams to Beloved Gurujis. > > > > > > > > Kalia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > > > > > > Mail > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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