Guest guest Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Dear friends and family, Please share your thoughts on todays verse. "Just as one sees in a mirror the clear reflection of the image which stands before it, just so, uniting So and Ham (nature and consciousness) in the ultimate bliss, the individual soul is the reflection of infinite consciousness." Jai Gurujis Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Dear all, I won't pretend to understand this verse, but it did ring a bell because only recently I read something referring to so-ham, so I thought it might be useful if I copied it: Referring to chapter 11 of the Chandi Path, wherein the Goddess,the Exposer of Consciousness is extolled, Swamiji writes: 'Her conveyance is pulled by two swans, hamsah. The hamsah means so-ham, the formulah of pranayama. Sa means prakrti. Ha means purusa. The pranayama of so-ham or hamsah is purusa-prakrti, Siva Sakti. The swan of pranayama, the swan of vital breath, the swan that pulls your conveyance, is the union of consciousness with nature in pranayama. When you are using the so-ham mantra remember that it is the hamsah. It becomes the swan' (commentary Kasypa Sutra,p 89) which led to these musings: The individual soul identifying itself with the body and its actions, is narrow-minded and does not know infinite consciousness. By using the breath (so-ham) as a 'cleaning-device', slowly the idea that 'you' are doing something disappears and you become aware that there is breathing taking place through you. And then, perhaps, you become aware that the One breathing IS you and you are THAT, and you are flying (hamsa). about the swan, Hamsa: The swan is the carrier of the Lady Sarasvati, the Goddess of Knowledge. The swan also symbolizes discrimination because of his ability to separate milk from water. Knowledge as a result of discrimination seems to me to be result of cleaning the mirror. So far from me. I'd sure be greatful if anyone could shed more light on this verse, with love, Henny , Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati@y. ...> wrote: > > Dear friends and family, > > > > Please share your thoughts on todays verse. > > > > "Just as one sees in a mirror the clear reflection of the image which stands before it, just so, uniting So and Ham (nature and consciousness) in the ultimate bliss, the individual soul is the reflection of infinite consciousness." > > > > Jai Gurujis > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 In a message dated 5/14/05 11:50:13 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, kaliananda_saraswati writes: SUTRA 6, para 4 says: Consciousness is one. It is the reflector. There are many reflections, objects of consciousness, cit rupa, which are actually the forms of the one consciousness itself. The rupa, form of consciousness, corresponds to sakti. Siva is the illuminator. You have one consciousness, the reflector. If you look outside it is reflecting pratyaksa, reflections of the gross or material world, that which can be known through the senses. If you close your eyes and conceive objects and relationships, that same reflection becomes pratyaya, a conception, an illumination of a concept. If you move beyond the mind, beyond the concept, into intuitive experience, that same reflector becomes the reflector of intuition, a mirror of the formless. Namaste Kalia, How true. Sounds a lot like Kashmir Shaivaism. Thanks. With Love Om Namah Sivaya Kanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 In thinking on this verse it seems that consciousness is the mirror or reflector whereas Nature is the reflection. All powers present in nature are present in every human being. [ vs 58. Consciousness illuminates the object of awareness, while consciousness itself is not illuminated] Guru has united Nature and consciousness ( vs 112 "He resides in harmony with his own soul) and has therefore become the reflection of infinite Consciousness. We as disciples on the path of light are all seeking to mirror the True Guru. SUTRA 6, para 4 says: Consciousness is one. It is the reflector. There are many reflections, objects of consciousness, cit rupa, which are actually the forms of the one consciousness itself. The rupa, form of consciousness, corresponds to sakti. Siva is the illuminator. You have one consciousness, the reflector. If you look outside it is reflecting pratyaksa, reflections of the gross or material world, that which can be known through the senses. If you close your eyes and conceive objects and relationships, that same reflection becomes pratyaya, a conception, an illumination of a concept. If you move beyond the mind, beyond the concept, into intuitive experience, that same reflector becomes the reflector of intuition, a mirror of the formless. END QUOTE May the respected Guru wake up those latent divine energies within all true seekers of light. Om. Please share your thoughts. henny_v_i <HvI (AT) SoftHome (DOT) net> wrote: Dear all,I won't pretend to understand this verse, but it did ring a bell because only recently I read something referring to so-ham, so I thought it might be useful if I copied it:Referring to chapter 11 of the Chandi Path, wherein the Goddess,the Exposer of Consciousness is extolled, Swamiji writes:'Her conveyance is pulled by two swans, hamsah. The hamsah means so-ham, the formulah of pranayama. Sa means prakrti. Ha means purusa. The pranayama of so-ham or hamsah is purusa-prakrti, Siva Sakti. The swan of pranayama, the swan of vital breath, the swan that pulls your conveyance, is the union of consciousness with nature in pranayama. When you are using the so-ham mantra remember that it is the hamsah. It becomes the swan'(commentary Kasypa Sutra,p 89)which led to these musings:The individual soul identifying itself with the body and its actions, is narrow-minded and does not know infinite consciousness. By using the breath (so-ham) as a 'cleaning-device', slowly the idea that 'you' are doing something disappears and you become aware that there is breathing taking place through you. And then, perhaps, you become aware that the One breathing IS you and you are THAT, and you are flying (hamsa).about the swan, Hamsa:The swan is the carrier of the Lady Sarasvati, the Goddess of Knowledge. The swan also symbolizes discrimination because of his ability to separate milk from water. Knowledge as a result of discrimination seems to me to be result of cleaning the mirror. So far from me. I'd sure be greatful if anyone could shed more light on this verse,with love,Henny, Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote:> > Dear friends and family,> > > > Please share your thoughts on todays verse.> > > > "Just as one sees in a mirror the clear reflection of the image which stands before it, just so, uniting So and Ham (nature and consciousness) in the ultimate bliss, the individual soul is the reflection of infinite consciousness."> > > > Jai Gurujis> > > > > > > > > Do You ?> Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around > Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2005 Report Share Posted May 15, 2005 Henny, Your general comments about so ham were great. There is just one thing I would add, as it relates very directly, I think, with the present (series of) verse(s). The mantra so ham is generally used to energize the shushumna nadi. If you look at the dhyanam in the beginning you will see, "The lotus is embraced by the two petals of Ham and Sah, which are the divine cause of perceivable existence." The lotus refered to here is ajna chakra, the jnana chakra. From the opposite direction (going toward transcendence, rather than manifestation), the two petals of Ham and Sah are the doorway to supreme consciousness. In the Kashyapa Sutra, Swamiji discusses how Ham Sah and So Ham are linked, actually the same. In some methods of bhuta shuddhi (purification of the elements), So Ham is used to purify ajna, and Ham Sah is used to go beyond. Though neither mantra is the bijas of the petals of ajna, they nevertheless represent the union (or differentiation, going the other way) of consciousness and manifestation, which takes place at ajna chakra. In verse 58 Ham and Sah are described as situated within a triangle, within the circle of the moon, "...in the middle of the white lotus in the top of the head..." In the middle of Ham and Sah, "...the guru is remembered." This is significant, I think, because these verses (109-119) are discussing a meditation focused in the heart (anahata chakra). What seems to be occurring here is not only the union of Shiva and Shakti, or of consciousness and manifestation, but of jnana and bhakti. There is, implicit in these verses, a connection between anahata (heart) and ajna (intuitive intellect), and that connection is realized through this practice. This verse says that "...the individual soul is the reflection of infinate consciousness (your post suggests you recognized this), and it always is, but we are unable to see it. But through this practice of heart meditation, we can unite So and Ham, and then we will see it, "...illuminat[ing] the purest clarity," (vs.113) "...in the ultimate bliss." (vs. 114). :) Jai Maa! Jai Gurudeva! Chris , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote: > Dear all, > > I won't pretend to understand this verse, but it did ring a bell > because only recently I read something referring to so-ham, so I > thought it might be useful if I copied it: > > Referring to chapter 11 of the Chandi Path, wherein the Goddess,the > Exposer of Consciousness is extolled, Swamiji writes: > > 'Her conveyance is pulled by two swans, hamsah. The hamsah means > so-ham, the formulah of pranayama. Sa means prakrti. Ha means purusa. > The pranayama of so-ham or hamsah is purusa-prakrti, Siva Sakti. The > swan of pranayama, the swan of vital breath, the swan that pulls your > conveyance, is the union of consciousness with nature in pranayama. > When you are using the so-ham mantra remember that it is the hamsah. > It becomes the swan' > > (commentary Kasypa Sutra,p 89) > > which led to these musings: > > The individual soul identifying itself with the body and its actions, > is narrow-minded and does not know infinite consciousness. By using > the breath (so-ham) as a 'cleaning-device', slowly the idea that 'you' > are doing something disappears and you become aware that there is > breathing taking place through you. And then, perhaps, you become > aware that the One breathing IS you and you are THAT, and you are > flying (hamsa). > > about the swan, Hamsa: > The swan is the carrier of the Lady Sarasvati, the Goddess of > Knowledge. The swan also symbolizes discrimination because of his > ability to separate milk from water. Knowledge as a result of > discrimination seems to me to be result of cleaning the mirror. > > So far from me. I'd sure be greatful if anyone could shed more light > on this verse, > > with love, > > Henny > > > > , Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati@y. > ..> wrote: > > > > Dear friends and family, > > > > > > > > Please share your thoughts on todays verse. > > > > > > > > "Just as one sees in a mirror the clear reflection of the image > which stands before it, just so, uniting So and Ham (nature and > consciousness) in the ultimate bliss, the individual soul is the > reflection of infinite consciousness." > > > > > > > > Jai Gurujis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2005 Report Share Posted May 15, 2005 Dear Kalia, thank you very much for directing me to sutra 6. Reading the chapter on sutra 6 again helped me understand the difference between a-ham and so-ham, and the importance of 'cultivating' perfect stillness. I begin to realize the amount of information and depth of wisdom crammed together in the 118 pages of the Kasyapa Sutra text... with love, Henny , Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote: > Dear Henny and All, > > In thinking on this verse it seems that consciousness is the mirror or reflector whereas Nature is the reflection. All powers present in nature are present in every human being. [ vs 58. Consciousness illuminates the object of awareness, while consciousness itself is not illuminated] Guru has united Nature and consciousness ( vs 112 "He resides in harmony with his own soul) and has therefore become the reflection of infinite Consciousness. We as disciples on the path of light are all seeking to mirror the True Guru. > > > > SUTRA 6, para 4 says: Consciousness is one. It is the reflector. There are many reflections, objects of consciousness, cit rupa, which are actually the forms of the one consciousness itself. The rupa, form of consciousness, corresponds to sakti. Siva is the illuminator. You have one consciousness, the reflector. If you look outside it is reflecting pratyaksa, reflections of the gross or material world, that which can be known through the senses. If you close your eyes and conceive objects and relationships, that same reflection becomes pratyaya, a conception, an illumination of a concept. If you move beyond the mind, beyond the concept, into intuitive experience, that same reflector becomes the reflector of intuition, a mirror of the formless. END QUOTE > > > May the respected Guru wake up those latent divine energies within all true seekers of light. Om. > > > > > > Please share your thoughts. > > > > > henny_v_i <HvI@S...> wrote: > Dear all, > > I won't pretend to understand this verse, but it did ring a bell > because only recently I read something referring to so-ham, so I > thought it might be useful if I copied it: > > Referring to chapter 11 of the Chandi Path, wherein the Goddess,the > Exposer of Consciousness is extolled, Swamiji writes: > > 'Her conveyance is pulled by two swans, hamsah. The hamsah means > so-ham, the formulah of pranayama. Sa means prakrti. Ha means purusa. > The pranayama of so-ham or hamsah is purusa-prakrti, Siva Sakti. The > swan of pranayama, the swan of vital breath, the swan that pulls your > conveyance, is the union of consciousness with nature in pranayama. > When you are using the so-ham mantra remember that it is the hamsah. > It becomes the swan' > > (commentary Kasypa Sutra,p 89) > > which led to these musings: > > The individual soul identifying itself with the body and its actions, > is narrow-minded and does not know infinite consciousness. By using > the breath (so-ham) as a 'cleaning-device', slowly the idea that 'you' > are doing something disappears and you become aware that there is > breathing taking place through you. And then, perhaps, you become > aware that the One breathing IS you and you are THAT, and you are > flying (hamsa). > > about the swan, Hamsa: > The swan is the carrier of the Lady Sarasvati, the Goddess of > Knowledge. The swan also symbolizes discrimination because of his > ability to separate milk from water. Knowledge as a result of > discrimination seems to me to be result of cleaning the mirror. > > So far from me. I'd sure be greatful if anyone could shed more light > on this verse, > > with love, > > Henny > > > > , Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati@y. > ..> wrote: > > > > Dear friends and family, > > > > > > > > Please share your thoughts on todays verse. > > > > > > > > "Just as one sees in a mirror the clear reflection of the image > which stands before it, just so, uniting So and Ham (nature and > consciousness) in the ultimate bliss, the individual soul is the > reflection of infinite consciousness." > > > > > > > > Jai Gurujis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2005 Report Share Posted May 15, 2005 Dear Chris, thanks for your addition. I don't know much about the chakras, but via your posts I'm catching up quickly. One question (oh dear, I really don't mean to take up much of your time and I don't expect you to go into this in depth, so please feel free to ignore this): > In verse 58 Ham and Sah are described as situated within a triangle, > within the circle of the moon, "...in the middle of the white lotus in > the top of the head..." In the middle of Ham and Sah, "...the guru is > remembered." Reading the verses 57-58, I noticed the Guru is described as dwelling in the middle of the white lotus on the top of the head in the circle of the moon. In verse 58, 'the lotus of one thousand petals' is mentioned, and there are three lines in the circle within the lotus. Is that the same lotus as the one in verse 57? Isn't that the sahasrara chakra? But then, a triangle is mentioned with the syllables ham and sa, 'in the middle of which the Guru is remembered'. Is the triangle in the same lotus? Or is remembering the Guru something which belongs to the ajna chakra? The circles and triangles are somewhat confusing to me. I hope you don't mind my asking, it isn't really important right now, but as you know I am rather inquisitive.... anyway, thanks again for your interesting addition, with love, Henny , "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956@y. ...> wrote: > Henny, > > Your general comments about so ham were great. There is just one thing > I would add, as it relates very directly, I think, with the present > (series of) verse(s). The mantra so ham is generally used to energize > the shushumna nadi. If you look at the dhyanam in the beginning you > will see, "The lotus is embraced by the two petals of Ham and Sah, > which are the divine cause of perceivable existence." The lotus > refered to here is ajna chakra, the jnana chakra. From the opposite > direction (going toward transcendence, rather than manifestation), the > two petals of Ham and Sah are the doorway to supreme consciousness. > > In the Kashyapa Sutra, Swamiji discusses how Ham Sah and So Ham are > linked, actually the same. In some methods of bhuta shuddhi > (purification of the elements), So Ham is used to purify ajna, and Ham > Sah is used to go beyond. Though neither mantra is the bijas of the > petals of ajna, they nevertheless represent the union (or > differentiation, going the other way) of consciousness and > manifestation, which takes place at ajna chakra. > > In verse 58 Ham and Sah are described as situated within a triangle, > within the circle of the moon, "...in the middle of the white lotus in > the top of the head..." In the middle of Ham and Sah, "...the guru is > remembered." > > This is significant, I think, because these verses (109-119) are > discussing a meditation focused in the heart (anahata chakra). What > seems to be occurring here is not only the union of Shiva and Shakti, > or of consciousness and manifestation, but of jnana and bhakti. There > is, implicit in these verses, a connection between anahata (heart) and > ajna (intuitive intellect), and that connection is realized through > this practice. > > This verse says that "...the individual soul is the reflection of > infinate consciousness (your post suggests you recognized this), and > it always is, but we are unable to see it. But through this practice > of heart meditation, we can unite So and Ham, and then we will see it, > "...illuminat[ing] the purest clarity," (vs.113) "...in the ultimate > bliss." (vs. 114). :) > > Jai Maa! > Jai Gurudeva! > Chris > > > > > > , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote: > > Dear all, > > > > I won't pretend to understand this verse, but it did ring a bell > > because only recently I read something referring to so-ham, so I > > thought it might be useful if I copied it: > > > > Referring to chapter 11 of the Chandi Path, wherein the Goddess, the > > Exposer of Consciousness is extolled, Swamiji writes: > > > > 'Her conveyance is pulled by two swans, hamsah. The hamsah means > > so-ham, the formulah of pranayama. Sa means prakrti. Ha means purusa. > > The pranayama of so-ham or hamsah is purusa-prakrti, Siva Sakti. The > > swan of pranayama, the swan of vital breath, the swan that pulls your > > conveyance, is the union of consciousness with nature in pranayama. > > When you are using the so-ham mantra remember that it is the hamsah. > > It becomes the swan' > > > > (commentary Kasypa Sutra,p 89) > > > > which led to these musings: > > > > The individual soul identifying itself with the body and its actions, > > is narrow-minded and does not know infinite consciousness. By using > > the breath (so-ham) as a 'cleaning-device', slowly the idea that 'you' > > are doing something disappears and you become aware that there is > > breathing taking place through you. And then, perhaps, you become > > aware that the One breathing IS you and you are THAT, and you are > > flying (hamsa). > > > > about the swan, Hamsa: > > The swan is the carrier of the Lady Sarasvati, the Goddess of > > Knowledge. The swan also symbolizes discrimination because of his > > ability to separate milk from water. Knowledge as a result of > > discrimination seems to me to be result of cleaning the mirror. > > > > So far from me. I'd sure be greatful if anyone could shed more light > > on this verse, > > > > with love, > > > > Henny > > > > > > > > , Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati@y. > > ..> wrote: > > > > > > Dear friends and family, > > > > > > > > > > > > Please share your thoughts on todays verse. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Just as one sees in a mirror the clear reflection of the image > > which stands before it, just so, uniting So and Ham (nature and > > consciousness) in the ultimate bliss, the individual soul is the > > reflection of infinite consciousness." > > > > > > > > > > > > Jai Gurujis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2005 Report Share Posted May 15, 2005 Henny, Verse 57 could describe a meditation practice, or it could be a metaphorical way of saying that guru is absolute consciousness. I think it is both, actually. Verse 58 continues the visualization with more details. The key suggestion that it is actually a practice is the phrase "...in the middle of which the Guru is remembered." At the level of sahasrara chakra there is no remembering. The mind is transcended at ajna chakra. So what we are dealing with here is a practical visualization. I think it likely the three lines are the lines of the triangle, but I'm not certain, and it is likely they represent the three gunas. They are unspeakable because they are beyond language, which is a function of the mind. If there is anything else...feel free! Jai Maa! Chris , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote: > Dear Chris, > > thanks for your addition. I don't know much about the chakras, but via > your posts I'm catching up quickly. One question (oh dear, I really > don't mean to take up much of your time and I don't expect you to go > into this in depth, so please feel free to ignore this): > > > In verse 58 Ham and Sah are described as situated within a triangle, > > within the circle of the moon, "...in the middle of the white lotus > in > > the top of the head..." In the middle of Ham and Sah, "...the guru > is > > remembered." > > Reading the verses 57-58, I noticed the Guru is described as dwelling > in the middle of the white lotus on the top of the head in the circle > of the moon. In verse 58, 'the lotus of one thousand petals' is > mentioned, and there are three lines in the circle within the lotus. > Is that the same lotus as the one in verse 57? Isn't that the > sahasrara chakra? But then, a triangle is mentioned with the syllables > ham and sa, 'in the middle of which the Guru is remembered'. Is the > triangle in the same lotus? Or is remembering the Guru something which > belongs to the ajna chakra? > > The circles and triangles are somewhat confusing to me. I hope you > don't mind my asking, it isn't really important right now, but as you > know I am rather inquisitive.... > > anyway, thanks again for your interesting addition, > with love, > Henny > > > > > > , "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956@y. > ..> wrote: > > Henny, > > > > Your general comments about so ham were great. There is just one > thing > > I would add, as it relates very directly, I think, with the present > > (series of) verse(s). The mantra so ham is generally used to > energize > > the shushumna nadi. If you look at the dhyanam in the beginning you > > will see, "The lotus is embraced by the two petals of Ham and Sah, > > which are the divine cause of perceivable existence." The lotus > > refered to here is ajna chakra, the jnana chakra. From the opposite > > direction (going toward transcendence, rather than manifestation), > the > > two petals of Ham and Sah are the doorway to supreme consciousness. > > > > In the Kashyapa Sutra, Swamiji discusses how Ham Sah and So Ham are > > linked, actually the same. In some methods of bhuta shuddhi > > (purification of the elements), So Ham is used to purify ajna, and > Ham > > Sah is used to go beyond. Though neither mantra is the bijas of the > > petals of ajna, they nevertheless represent the union (or > > differentiation, going the other way) of consciousness and > > manifestation, which takes place at ajna chakra. > > > > In verse 58 Ham and Sah are described as situated within a triangle, > > within the circle of the moon, "...in the middle of the white lotus > in > > the top of the head..." In the middle of Ham and Sah, "...the guru > is > > remembered." > > > > This is significant, I think, because these verses (109-119) are > > discussing a meditation focused in the heart (anahata chakra). What > > seems to be occurring here is not only the union of Shiva and > Shakti, > > or of consciousness and manifestation, but of jnana and bhakti. > There > > is, implicit in these verses, a connection between anahata (heart) > and > > ajna (intuitive intellect), and that connection is realized through > > this practice. > > > > This verse says that "...the individual soul is the reflection of > > infinate consciousness (your post suggests you recognized this), and > > it always is, but we are unable to see it. But through this practice > > of heart meditation, we can unite So and Ham, and then we will see > it, > > "...illuminat[ing] the purest clarity," (vs.113) "...in the ultimate > > bliss." (vs. 114). :) > > > > Jai Maa! > > Jai Gurudeva! > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote: > > > Dear all, > > > > > > I won't pretend to understand this verse, but it did ring a bell > > > because only recently I read something referring to so-ham, so I > > > thought it might be useful if I copied it: > > > > > > Referring to chapter 11 of the Chandi Path, wherein the Goddess, > the > > > Exposer of Consciousness is extolled, Swamiji writes: > > > > > > 'Her conveyance is pulled by two swans, hamsah. The hamsah means > > > so-ham, the formulah of pranayama. Sa means prakrti. Ha means > purusa. > > > The pranayama of so-ham or hamsah is purusa-prakrti, Siva Sakti. > The > > > swan of pranayama, the swan of vital breath, the swan that pulls > your > > > conveyance, is the union of consciousness with nature in > pranayama. > > > When you are using the so-ham mantra remember that it is the > hamsah. > > > It becomes the swan' > > > > > > (commentary Kasypa Sutra,p 89) > > > > > > which led to these musings: > > > > > > The individual soul identifying itself with the body and its > actions, > > > is narrow-minded and does not know infinite consciousness. By > using > > > the breath (so-ham) as a 'cleaning-device', slowly the idea that > 'you' > > > are doing something disappears and you become aware that there is > > > breathing taking place through you. And then, perhaps, you become > > > aware that the One breathing IS you and you are THAT, and you are > > > flying (hamsa). > > > > > > about the swan, Hamsa: > > > The swan is the carrier of the Lady Sarasvati, the Goddess of > > > Knowledge. The swan also symbolizes discrimination because of his > > > ability to separate milk from water. Knowledge as a result of > > > discrimination seems to me to be result of cleaning the mirror. > > > > > > So far from me. I'd sure be greatful if anyone could shed more > light > > > on this verse, > > > > > > with love, > > > > > > Henny > > > > > > > > > > > > , Kali Kali > <kaliananda_saraswati@y. > > > ..> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear friends and family, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please share your thoughts on todays verse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Just as one sees in a mirror the clear reflection of the image > > > which stands before it, just so, uniting So and Ham (nature and > > > consciousness) in the ultimate bliss, the individual soul is the > > > reflection of infinite consciousness." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jai Gurujis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Here is Swamiji's explanation of verse 58: "Bindu is point of complete union.Triangle is the harmony of the threes.Circle is all of creation.Square represents four aspirations of manifested existence: dharma, artha, kama, moksha." Jai Gurujis Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > wrote: Henny,Verse 57 could describe a meditation practice, or it could be ametaphorical way of saying that guru is absolute consciousness. Ithink it is both, actually. Verse 58 continues the visualization withmore details. The key suggestion that it is actually a practice is thephrase "...in the middle of which the Guru is remembered." At thelevel of sahasrara chakra there is no remembering. The mind istranscended at ajna chakra.So what we are dealing with here is a practical visualization. I thinkit likely the three lines are the lines of the triangle, but I'm notcertain, and it is likely they represent the three gunas. They areunspeakable because they are beyond language, which is a function ofthe mind.If there is anything else...feel free!Jai Maa!Chris, "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote:> Dear Chris,> > thanks for your addition. I don't know much about the chakras, but via > your posts I'm catching up quickly. One question (oh dear, I really > don't mean to take up much of your time and I don't expect you to go > into this in depth, so please feel free to ignore this):> > > In verse 58 Ham and Sah are described as situated within a triangle,> > within the circle of the moon, "...in the middle of the white lotus > in> > the top of the head..." In the middle of Ham and Sah, "...the guru > is> > remembered."> > Reading the verses 57-58, I noticed the Guru is described as dwelling > in the middle of the white lotus on the top of the head in the circle > of the moon. In verse 58, 'the lotus of one thousand petals' is > mentioned, and there are three lines in the circle within the lotus. > Is that the same lotus as the one in verse 57? Isn't that the > sahasrara chakra? But then, a triangle is mentioned with the syllables > ham and sa, 'in the middle of which the Guru is remembered'. Is the > triangle in the same lotus? Or is remembering the Guru something which > belongs to the ajna chakra?> > The circles and triangles are somewhat confusing to me. I hope you > don't mind my asking, it isn't really important right now, but as you > know I am rather inquisitive....> > anyway, thanks again for your interesting addition,> with love,> Henny> > > > > > , "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956@y.> ..> wrote:> > Henny,> > > > Your general comments about so ham were great. There is just one > thing> > I would add, as it relates very directly, I think, with the present> > (series of) verse(s). The mantra so ham is generally used to > energize> > the shushumna nadi. If you look at the dhyanam in the beginning you> > will see, "The lotus is embraced by the two petals of Ham and Sah,> > which are the divine cause of perceivable existence." The lotus> > refered to here is ajna chakra, the jnana chakra. From the opposite> > direction (going toward transcendence, rather than manifestation), > the> > two petals of Ham and Sah are the doorway to supreme consciousness.> > > > In the Kashyapa Sutra, Swamiji discusses how Ham Sah and So Ham are> > linked, actually the same. In some methods of bhuta shuddhi> > (purification of the elements), So Ham is used to purify ajna, and > Ham> > Sah is used to go beyond. Though neither mantra is the bijas of the> > petals of ajna, they nevertheless represent the union (or> > differentiation, going the other way) of consciousness and> > manifestation, which takes place at ajna chakra.> > > > In verse 58 Ham and Sah are described as situated within a triangle,> > within the circle of the moon, "...in the middle of the white lotus > in> > the top of the head..." In the middle of Ham and Sah, "...the guru > is> > remembered."> > > > This is significant, I think, because these verses (109-119) are> > discussing a meditation focused in the heart (anahata chakra). What> > seems to be occurring here is not only the union of Shiva and > Shakti,> > or of consciousness and manifestation, but of jnana and bhakti. > There> > is, implicit in these verses, a connection between anahata (heart) > and> > ajna (intuitive intellect), and that connection is realized through> > this practice.> > > > This verse says that "...the individual soul is the reflection of> > infinate consciousness (your post suggests you recognized this), and> > it always is, but we are unable to see it. But through this practice> > of heart meditation, we can unite So and Ham, and then we will see > it,> > "...illuminat[ing] the purest clarity," (vs.113) "...in the ultimate> > bliss." (vs. 114). :) > > > > Jai Maa!> > Jai Gurudeva!> > Chris> > > > > > > > > > > > , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote:> > > Dear all,> > > > > > I won't pretend to understand this verse, but it did ring a bell > > > because only recently I read something referring to so-ham, so I > > > thought it might be useful if I copied it:> > > > > > Referring to chapter 11 of the Chandi Path, wherein the Goddess,> the > > > Exposer of Consciousness is extolled, Swamiji writes:> > > > > > 'Her conveyance is pulled by two swans, hamsah. The hamsah means > > > so-ham, the formulah of pranayama. Sa means prakrti. Ha means > purusa. > > > The pranayama of so-ham or hamsah is purusa-prakrti, Siva Sakti. > The > > > swan of pranayama, the swan of vital breath, the swan that pulls > your > > > conveyance, is the union of consciousness with nature in > pranayama. > > > When you are using the so-ham mantra remember that it is the > hamsah. > > > It becomes the swan'> > > > > > (commentary Kasypa Sutra,p 89)> > > > > > which led to these musings:> > > > > > The individual soul identifying itself with the body and its > actions, > > > is narrow-minded and does not know infinite consciousness. By > using > > > the breath (so-ham) as a 'cleaning-device', slowly the idea that > 'you' > > > are doing something disappears and you become aware that there is > > > breathing taking place through you. And then, perhaps, you become > > > aware that the One breathing IS you and you are THAT, and you are > > > flying (hamsa).> > > > > > about the swan, Hamsa:> > > The swan is the carrier of the Lady Sarasvati, the Goddess of > > > Knowledge. The swan also symbolizes discrimination because of his > > > ability to separate milk from water. Knowledge as a result of > > > discrimination seems to me to be result of cleaning the mirror. > > > > > > So far from me. I'd sure be greatful if anyone could shed more > light > > > on this verse,> > > > > > with love,> > > > > > Henny> > > > > > > > > > > > , Kali Kali > <kaliananda_saraswati@y.> > > ..> wrote:> > > > > > > > Dear friends and family,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please share your thoughts on todays verse.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Just as one sees in a mirror the clear reflection of the image > > > which stands before it, just so, uniting So and Ham (nature and > > > consciousness) in the ultimate bliss, the individual soul is the > > > reflection of infinite consciousness."> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jai Gurujis> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do You ?> > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around > > > > Make your home page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Chrisji, thank you for taking the time to share your insights (again). It helps, with love, Henny , "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956@y. ...> wrote: > Henny, > > Verse 57 could describe a meditation practice, or it could be a > metaphorical way of saying that guru is absolute consciousness. I > think it is both, actually. Verse 58 continues the visualization with > more details. The key suggestion that it is actually a practice is the > phrase "...in the middle of which the Guru is remembered." At the > level of sahasrara chakra there is no remembering. The mind is > transcended at ajna chakra. > > So what we are dealing with here is a practical visualization. I think > it likely the three lines are the lines of the triangle, but I'm not > certain, and it is likely they represent the three gunas. They are > unspeakable because they are beyond language, which is a function of > the mind. > > If there is anything else...feel free! > > Jai Maa! > Chris > > > , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote: > > Dear Chris, > > > > thanks for your addition. I don't know much about the chakras, but via > > your posts I'm catching up quickly. One question (oh dear, I really > > don't mean to take up much of your time and I don't expect you to go > > into this in depth, so please feel free to ignore this): > > > > > In verse 58 Ham and Sah are described as situated within a triangle, > > > within the circle of the moon, "...in the middle of the white lotus > > in > > > the top of the head..." In the middle of Ham and Sah, "...the guru > > is > > > remembered." > > > > Reading the verses 57-58, I noticed the Guru is described as dwelling > > in the middle of the white lotus on the top of the head in the circle > > of the moon. In verse 58, 'the lotus of one thousand petals' is > > mentioned, and there are three lines in the circle within the lotus. > > Is that the same lotus as the one in verse 57? Isn't that the > > sahasrara chakra? But then, a triangle is mentioned with the syllables > > ham and sa, 'in the middle of which the Guru is remembered'. Is the > > triangle in the same lotus? Or is remembering the Guru something which > > belongs to the ajna chakra? > > > > The circles and triangles are somewhat confusing to me. I hope you > > don't mind my asking, it isn't really important right now, but as you > > know I am rather inquisitive.... > > > > anyway, thanks again for your interesting addition, > > with love, > > Henny > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956@y. > > ..> wrote: > > > Henny, > > > > > > Your general comments about so ham were great. There is just one > > thing > > > I would add, as it relates very directly, I think, with the present > > > (series of) verse(s). The mantra so ham is generally used to > > energize > > > the shushumna nadi. If you look at the dhyanam in the beginning you > > > will see, "The lotus is embraced by the two petals of Ham and Sah, > > > which are the divine cause of perceivable existence." The lotus > > > refered to here is ajna chakra, the jnana chakra. From the opposite > > > direction (going toward transcendence, rather than manifestation), > > the > > > two petals of Ham and Sah are the doorway to supreme consciousness. > > > > > > In the Kashyapa Sutra, Swamiji discusses how Ham Sah and So Ham are > > > linked, actually the same. In some methods of bhuta shuddhi > > > (purification of the elements), So Ham is used to purify ajna, and > > Ham > > > Sah is used to go beyond. Though neither mantra is the bijas of the > > > petals of ajna, they nevertheless represent the union (or > > > differentiation, going the other way) of consciousness and > > > manifestation, which takes place at ajna chakra. > > > > > > In verse 58 Ham and Sah are described as situated within a triangle, > > > within the circle of the moon, "...in the middle of the white lotus > > in > > > the top of the head..." In the middle of Ham and Sah, "...the guru > > is > > > remembered." > > > > > > This is significant, I think, because these verses (109-119) are > > > discussing a meditation focused in the heart (anahata chakra). What > > > seems to be occurring here is not only the union of Shiva and > > Shakti, > > > or of consciousness and manifestation, but of jnana and bhakti. > > There > > > is, implicit in these verses, a connection between anahata (heart) > > and > > > ajna (intuitive intellect), and that connection is realized through > > > this practice. > > > > > > This verse says that "...the individual soul is the reflection of > > > infinate consciousness (your post suggests you recognized this), and > > > it always is, but we are unable to see it. But through this practice > > > of heart meditation, we can unite So and Ham, and then we will see > > it, > > > "...illuminat[ing] the purest clarity," (vs.113) "...in the ultimate > > > bliss." (vs. 114). :) > > > > > > Jai Maa! > > > Jai Gurudeva! > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote: > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > I won't pretend to understand this verse, but it did ring a bell > > > > because only recently I read something referring to so-ham, so I > > > > thought it might be useful if I copied it: > > > > > > > > Referring to chapter 11 of the Chandi Path, wherein the Goddess, > > the > > > > Exposer of Consciousness is extolled, Swamiji writes: > > > > > > > > 'Her conveyance is pulled by two swans, hamsah. The hamsah means > > > > so-ham, the formulah of pranayama. Sa means prakrti. Ha means > > purusa. > > > > The pranayama of so-ham or hamsah is purusa-prakrti, Siva Sakti. > > The > > > > swan of pranayama, the swan of vital breath, the swan that pulls > > your > > > > conveyance, is the union of consciousness with nature in > > pranayama. > > > > When you are using the so-ham mantra remember that it is the > > hamsah. > > > > It becomes the swan' > > > > > > > > (commentary Kasypa Sutra,p 89) > > > > > > > > which led to these musings: > > > > > > > > The individual soul identifying itself with the body and its > > actions, > > > > is narrow-minded and does not know infinite consciousness. By > > using > > > > the breath (so-ham) as a 'cleaning-device', slowly the idea that > > 'you' > > > > are doing something disappears and you become aware that there is > > > > breathing taking place through you. And then, perhaps, you become > > > > aware that the One breathing IS you and you are THAT, and you are > > > > flying (hamsa). > > > > > > > > about the swan, Hamsa: > > > > The swan is the carrier of the Lady Sarasvati, the Goddess of > > > > Knowledge. The swan also symbolizes discrimination because of his > > > > ability to separate milk from water. Knowledge as a result of > > > > discrimination seems to me to be result of cleaning the mirror. > > > > > > > > So far from me. I'd sure be greatful if anyone could shed more > > light > > > > on this verse, > > > > > > > > with love, > > > > > > > > Henny > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Kali Kali > > <kaliananda_saraswati@y. > > > > ..> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear friends and family, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please share your thoughts on todays verse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Just as one sees in a mirror the clear reflection of the image > > > > which stands before it, just so, uniting So and Ham (nature and > > > > consciousness) in the ultimate bliss, the individual soul is the > > > > reflection of infinite consciousness." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jai Gurujis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Thank you very much, Swamiji, and thank you Kalia for posting this. with love, Henny , Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati@y. ...> wrote: > Dear Henny and Chris, > > Here is Swamiji's explanation of verse 58: > > > "Bindu is point of complete union. > Triangle is the harmony of the threes. > Circle is all of creation. > Square represents four aspirations of manifested existence: dharma, > artha, kama, moksha." > > > Jai Gurujis > > Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956> wrote: > Henny, > > Verse 57 could describe a meditation practice, or it could be a > metaphorical way of saying that guru is absolute consciousness. I > think it is both, actually. Verse 58 continues the visualization with > more details. The key suggestion that it is actually a practice is the > phrase "...in the middle of which the Guru is remembered." At the > level of sahasrara chakra there is no remembering. The mind is > transcended at ajna chakra. > > So what we are dealing with here is a practical visualization. I think > it likely the three lines are the lines of the triangle, but I'm not > certain, and it is likely they represent the three gunas. They are > unspeakable because they are beyond language, which is a function of > the mind. > > If there is anything else...feel free! > > Jai Maa! > Chris > > > , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote: > > Dear Chris, > > > > thanks for your addition. I don't know much about the chakras, but via > > your posts I'm catching up quickly. One question (oh dear, I really > > don't mean to take up much of your time and I don't expect you to go > > into this in depth, so please feel free to ignore this): > > > > > In verse 58 Ham and Sah are described as situated within a triangle, > > > within the circle of the moon, "...in the middle of the white lotus > > in > > > the top of the head..." In the middle of Ham and Sah, "...the guru > > is > > > remembered." > > > > Reading the verses 57-58, I noticed the Guru is described as dwelling > > in the middle of the white lotus on the top of the head in the circle > > of the moon. In verse 58, 'the lotus of one thousand petals' is > > mentioned, and there are three lines in the circle within the lotus. > > Is that the same lotus as the one in verse 57? Isn't that the > > sahasrara chakra? But then, a triangle is mentioned with the syllables > > ham and sa, 'in the middle of which the Guru is remembered'. Is the > > triangle in the same lotus? Or is remembering the Guru something which > > belongs to the ajna chakra? > > > > The circles and triangles are somewhat confusing to me. I hope you > > don't mind my asking, it isn't really important right now, but as you > > know I am rather inquisitive.... > > > > anyway, thanks again for your interesting addition, > > with love, > > Henny > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956@y. > > ..> wrote: > > > Henny, > > > > > > Your general comments about so ham were great. There is just one > > thing > > > I would add, as it relates very directly, I think, with the present > > > (series of) verse(s). The mantra so ham is generally used to > > energize > > > the shushumna nadi. If you look at the dhyanam in the beginning you > > > will see, "The lotus is embraced by the two petals of Ham and Sah, > > > which are the divine cause of perceivable existence." The lotus > > > refered to here is ajna chakra, the jnana chakra. From the opposite > > > direction (going toward transcendence, rather than manifestation), > > the > > > two petals of Ham and Sah are the doorway to supreme consciousness. > > > > > > In the Kashyapa Sutra, Swamiji discusses how Ham Sah and So Ham are > > > linked, actually the same. In some methods of bhuta shuddhi > > > (purification of the elements), So Ham is used to purify ajna, and > > Ham > > > Sah is used to go beyond. Though neither mantra is the bijas of the > > > petals of ajna, they nevertheless represent the union (or > > > differentiation, going the other way) of consciousness and > > > manifestation, which takes place at ajna chakra. > > > > > > In verse 58 Ham and Sah are described as situated within a triangle, > > > within the circle of the moon, "...in the middle of the white lotus > > in > > > the top of the head..." In the middle of Ham and Sah, "...the guru > > is > > > remembered." > > > > > > This is significant, I think, because these verses (109-119) are > > > discussing a meditation focused in the heart (anahata chakra). What > > > seems to be occurring here is not only the union of Shiva and > > Shakti, > > > or of consciousness and manifestation, but of jnana and bhakti. > > There > > > is, implicit in these verses, a connection between anahata (heart) > > and > > > ajna (intuitive intellect), and that connection is realized through > > > this practice. > > > > > > This verse says that "...the individual soul is the reflection of > > > infinate consciousness (your post suggests you recognized this), and > > > it always is, but we are unable to see it. But through this practice > > > of heart meditation, we can unite So and Ham, and then we will see > > it, > > > "...illuminat[ing] the purest clarity," (vs.113) "...in the ultimate > > > bliss." (vs. 114). :) > > > > > > Jai Maa! > > > Jai Gurudeva! > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote: > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > I won't pretend to understand this verse, but it did ring a bell > > > > because only recently I read something referring to so-ham, so I > > > > thought it might be useful if I copied it: > > > > > > > > Referring to chapter 11 of the Chandi Path, wherein the Goddess, > > the > > > > Exposer of Consciousness is extolled, Swamiji writes: > > > > > > > > 'Her conveyance is pulled by two swans, hamsah. The hamsah means > > > > so-ham, the formulah of pranayama. Sa means prakrti. Ha means > > purusa. > > > > The pranayama of so-ham or hamsah is purusa-prakrti, Siva Sakti. > > The > > > > swan of pranayama, the swan of vital breath, the swan that pulls > > your > > > > conveyance, is the union of consciousness with nature in > > pranayama. > > > > When you are using the so-ham mantra remember that it is the > > hamsah. > > > > It becomes the swan' > > > > > > > > (commentary Kasypa Sutra,p 89) > > > > > > > > which led to these musings: > > > > > > > > The individual soul identifying itself with the body and its > > actions, > > > > is narrow-minded and does not know infinite consciousness. By > > using > > > > the breath (so-ham) as a 'cleaning-device', slowly the idea that > > 'you' > > > > are doing something disappears and you become aware that there is > > > > breathing taking place through you. And then, perhaps, you become > > > > aware that the One breathing IS you and you are THAT, and you are > > > > flying (hamsa). > > > > > > > > about the swan, Hamsa: > > > > The swan is the carrier of the Lady Sarasvati, the Goddess of > > > > Knowledge. The swan also symbolizes discrimination because of his > > > > ability to separate milk from water. Knowledge as a result of > > > > discrimination seems to me to be result of cleaning the mirror. > > > > > > > > So far from me. I'd sure be greatful if anyone could shed more > > light > > > > on this verse, > > > > > > > > with love, > > > > > > > > Henny > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Kali Kali > > <kaliananda_saraswati@y. > > > > ..> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear friends and family, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please share your thoughts on todays verse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Just as one sees in a mirror the clear reflection of the image > > > > which stands before it, just so, uniting So and Ham (nature and > > > > consciousness) in the ultimate bliss, the individual soul is the > > > > reflection of infinite consciousness." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jai Gurujis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around > > > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > Make your home page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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