Guest guest Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Dear friends, The verse in being posted a bit earlier today, we look forward to your comments on this and any previous verses. Jai Gurujis. The verse (115) Listen as I speak of that full, complete, and perfect conscious being (Purusa), which is meditated upon as the size of a thumb within the heart, where he gives rise to an attitude of awareness (Bhava). Kalia Mail Mobile Take Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 OM NAMAH SIVAYA maybe 113, 114, 115 taken together say, The Guru is a vessel of pure consciousness. higher that the highest. reflecting the infinite consciousness through their individual soul. when we meditate on the Guru or put the Guru in our heart, we become aware of the fact that we are also the full, complete and perfect conscious being. it's like the saying, as you think, so you become. think only of the True Guru and become only the Truth of the Guru. just guessing. JAI MA , Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote: > > > Dear friends, > > > > The verse in being posted a bit earlier today, we look forward to your comments on this and any previous verses. > > > > Jai Gurujis. > > > > > The verse (115) > > Listen as I speak of that full, complete, and perfect conscious being (Purusa), which is meditated upon as the size of a thumb within the heart, where he gives rise to an attitude of awareness (Bhava). > > > > Kalia > > > Mail Mobile > Take Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2005 Report Share Posted May 15, 2005 Kalia, I have seen this elsewhere, though it was called the atman (personal soul), rather than purusha. This light exists in the heart, and if one can quiet the mind enough, it will appear. About the size of a thumb, it is also called the unflickering flame. Jai Maa! Chris > > The verse (115) > > Listen as I speak of that full, complete, and perfect conscious being (Purusa), which is meditated upon as the size of a thumb within the heart, where he gives rise to an attitude of awareness (Bhava). > > > > Kalia > > > Mail Mobile > Take Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2005 Report Share Posted May 15, 2005 Purusa seems to be that eternal flame in the heart which feeds on our pure devotion and meditation. Found this on the web seems to be part of the Rig Veda - Hymn to Purusa Rig Veda 6/24/2002 Thousand-headed is Purusa, thousand-eyed, thousand-footed. Having covered the earth on all sides, he stood above it the width of ten fingers. Only Purusa is all this, that which has been and that which is to be. He is the lord of the immortals, who grow by means of [ritual] food. Such is his greatness, yet more than this is Purusa. One-quarter of him is all beings; three- quarters of him is the immortal in heaven. Three-quarters of Purusa went upward, one-quarter of him remained here. From this [one-quarter] he spread in all directions into what eats and what does not eat. >From him the shining one was born, from the shining one was born Purusa. When born he extended beyond the earth, behind as well as in front. When the gods performed a sacrifice with the offering Purusa, spring was its clarified butter, summer the kindling, autumn the oblation. It was Purusa, born in the beginning, which they sprinkled on the sacred grass as a sacrifice. With him the gods sacrificed, the demi-gods, and the seers. >From that sacrifice completely offered, the clotted butter was brought together. It made the beasts of the air, the forest and the village. >From that sacrifice completely offered, the mantras [Rig Veda] and the songs [samaveda] were born. The meters were born from it. The sacrificial formulae [Yajurveda] were born from it. >From it the horses were born and all that have cutting teeth in both jaws. The cows were born from it, also. From it were born goats and sheep. When they divided Purusa, how many ways did they apportion him? What was his mouth? What were his arms? What were his thighs, his feet declared to be? His mouth was the Brahman [caste], his arms were the Rajanaya [Ksatriya caste], his thighs the Vaisya [caste]; from his feet the Sudra [caste] was born. The moon was born from his mind; from his eye the sun was born; from his mouth both Indra and Agni [fire]; from his breath Vayu [wind] was born. >From his navel arose the air; from his head the heaven evolved; from his feet the earth; the [four] directions from his ear. Thus, they fashioned the worlds. Seven were his altar sticks, three times seven were the kindling bundles, when the gods, performing the sacrifice, bound the beast Purusa. The gods sacrificed with the sacrifice to the sacrifice. These were the first rites. These powers reached the firmament, where the ancient demi-gods and the gods are. KaliaChris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > wrote: Kalia,I have seen this elsewhere, though it was called the atman (personalsoul), rather than purusha. This light exists in the heart, and if one can quiet the mind enough,it will appear. About the size of a thumb, it is also called theunflickering flame.Jai Maa!Chris> > The verse (115)> > Listen as I speak of that full, complete, and perfect consciousbeing (Purusa), which is meditated upon as the size of a thumb withinthe heart, where he gives rise to an attitude of awareness (Bhava).> > > > Kalia> > > > > > > > > > Mail Mobile> Take Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. Mail Mobile Take Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2005 Report Share Posted May 15, 2005 The mind, intellect, ego, ether, air, fire, water, and earth are the eightfold transformation of My Prakriti. (See also 13.05) (7.04) That which creates diversity, and all that can be seen or known is called Prakriti. Prakriti is also the material cause or the material out of which everything is made. Prakriti is the original source of the material world consisting of three Gunas, and eight basic elements out of which everything in this universe has evolved according to Saamkhya doctrine. Prakriti is also referred to as Asat, perishable, body, matter, nature, material nature, Maya, Mahat Brahma, field, creation, and manifest state. This Prakriti is My lower energy. My other higher energy is the Purusha by which this entire universe is sustained, O Arjuna. (7.05) Purusha is the consciousness that observes, witnesses, watches, and supervises Prakrti. It is the spiritual energy or the efficient cause of the universe. This is also referred to as Sat, imperishable, Atma, consciousness, spirit, self, soul, energy, field knower, creator, and the unmanifest state. Prakriti and Purusha are not two independent identities but the two aspects of Brahman, the Absolute RealityPranams. Discover Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news &; more. Check it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Dear Kalia, your web findings are very helpful! Thanks, with love, Henny , Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati@y. ...> wrote: > Here is another exerpt from the web on Purusha - > > > The mind, intellect, ego, ether, air, fire, water, and earth are the eightfold transformation of My Prakriti. (See also 13.05) (7.04) > > That which creates diversity, and all that can be seen or known is called Prakriti. Prakriti is also the material cause or the material out of which everything is made. Prakriti is the original source of the material world consisting of three Gunas, and eight basic elements out of which everything in this universe has evolved according to Saamkhya doctrine. Prakriti is also referred to as Asat, perishable, body, matter, nature, material nature, Maya, Mahat Brahma, field, creation, and manifest state. > > This Prakriti is My lower energy. My other higher energy is the Purusha by which this entire universe is sustained, O Arjuna. (7.05) > > Purusha is the consciousness that observes, witnesses, watches, and supervises Prakrti. It is the spiritual energy or the efficient cause of the universe. This is also referred to as Sat, imperishable, Atma, consciousness, spirit, self, soul, energy, field knower, creator, and the unmanifest state. Prakriti and Purusha are not two independent identities but the two aspects of Brahman, the Absolute Reality > > Pranams. > > > > > Discover > Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Kalia, All I can say is Wow! I wish I understood that. Jai Maa! Chris , Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote: > Dear Chris and all, > > Purusa seems to be that eternal flame in the heart which feeds on our pure devotion and meditation. > > Found this on the web seems to be part of the Rig Veda - > > Hymn to PurusaRig Veda 6/24/2002 > > Thousand-headed is Purusa, thousand-eyed, thousand-footed. Having covered the earth on all sides, he stood above it the width of ten fingers. > > Only Purusa is all this, that which has been and that which is to be. He is the lord of the immortals, who grow by means of [ritual] food. > > Such is his greatness, yet more than this is Purusa. One-quarter of him is all beings; three- quarters of him is the immortal in heaven. > > Three-quarters of Purusa went upward, one-quarter of him remained here. From this [one-quarter] he spread in all directions into what eats and what does not eat. > > From him the shining one was born, from the shining one was born Purusa. When born he extended beyond the earth, behind as well as in front. > > When the gods performed a sacrifice with the offering Purusa, spring was its clarified butter, summer the kindling, autumn the oblation. > > It was Purusa, born in the beginning, which they sprinkled on the sacred grass as a sacrifice. With him the gods sacrificed, the demi-gods, and the seers. > > From that sacrifice completely offered, the clotted butter was brought together. It made the beasts of the air, the forest and the village. > > From that sacrifice completely offered, the mantras [Rig Veda] and the songs [samaveda] were born. The meters were born from it. The sacrificial formulae [Yajurveda] were born from it. > > From it the horses were born and all that have cutting teeth in both jaws. The cows were born from it, also. From it were born goats and sheep. > > When they divided Purusa, how many ways did they apportion him? What was his mouth? What were his arms? What were his thighs, his feet declared to be? > > His mouth was the Brahman [caste], his arms were the Rajanaya [Ksatriya caste], his thighs the Vaisya [caste]; from his feet the Sudra [caste] was born. > > The moon was born from his mind; from his eye the sun was born; from his mouth both Indra and Agni [fire]; from his breath Vayu [wind] was born. > > From his navel arose the air; from his head the heaven evolved; from his feet the earth; the [four] directions from his ear. Thus, they fashioned the worlds. > > Seven were his altar sticks, three times seven were the kindling bundles, when the gods, performing the sacrifice, bound the beast Purusa. > > The gods sacrificed with the sacrifice to the sacrifice. These were the first rites. These powers reached the firmament, where the ancient demi-gods and the gods are. > > > Kalia > Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956> wrote: > Kalia, > > I have seen this elsewhere, though it was called the atman (personal > soul), rather than purusha. > > This light exists in the heart, and if one can quiet the mind enough, > it will appear. About the size of a thumb, it is also called the > unflickering flame. > > Jai Maa! > Chris > > > > > The verse (115) > > > > Listen as I speak of that full, complete, and perfect conscious > being (Purusa), which is meditated upon as the size of a thumb within > the heart, where he gives rise to an attitude of awareness (Bhava). > > > > > > > > Kalia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mail Mobile > > Take Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. > Links > > > / > > > > > > > > > > Mail Mobile > Take Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 In a message dated 5/16/05 3:25:32 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, chriskirner1956 writes: In the Samkhya system of philosophy purusha is the highest. It issynonymous with pure consciousness. However, in Tantra philosophypurusha is not the highest, but is the twenty sixth tattwa (of thirtysix) moving from the gross to the subtle. Namaste Chris, In Kashmir Shaivaism purusha would be 25 of 36 Tattvas moving from the gross to the subtle. Rishi Tirumular in the Tirumantiram also refers to the 36 Tattvas. Agreed that the Samkhya system of philosophy sees purusha as the highest and I've have seen references equating purusha and atman. Hope this is not hair splitting. With Love Om Namah Sivaya Kanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Kalia, In the Samkhya system of philosophy purusha is the highest. It is synonymous with pure consciousness. However, in Tantra philosophy purusha is not the highest, but is the twenty sixth tattwa (of thirty six) moving from the gross to the subtle. Look at Swamiji's commentary on the twelveth sutra of the Kashyapa Sutras, pages 88-90 in my book. Purusha evolves after maya and the five kaanchuukas, or limitations (modes of perception). My greatest question here is, if purusha comes after maya and the five limitations, is it not then bound by them, and if it is bound by them, it cannot be said to be pure consciousness. At one point Swamiji says, "This Purusha has been perceived in time, space, activity, knowledge, and with attributes." But I guess the perception of Purusha within these limitations (which constitute the basis of manifest reality) doesn't necessarily mean Purusha is bound by them. Or does it? I guess it might be the same as myself, living in a house. I live inside, but I am in no way bound by that. I can leave at any time; there are windows I can see the world outside through, and I am always aware of the wider world beyond its walls. So, I guess we could say then, that Purusha is an ineffable (to me) individualization of pure consciousness, in a manner that retains its pure nature, but allows it to wear an individual nature, like a suit of clothes. Despite Tantra's definitive positioning of Purusha in a hierarchy, Swamiji also uses Purusha in a more generic sense, with Prakriti, as synonyms of Shiva and Shakti. He says that in the state of shabda brahman, Purusha and Prakriti are inseparable. That suggests that from Sadaashiva down to Purusha, the essence of Purusha doesn't change. You know, it's so easy to get bogged down in the details and lose sight of the simple truth. From the time I picked-up my first yoga book I have known that there is no difference between the individual soul and the Supreme Soul, or Brahman. Only the container is different. I guess my mind forgets sometimes because my heart doesn't really know it yet. Jai Maa! Chris , Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote: > Here is another exerpt from the web on Purusha - > > > The mind, intellect, ego, ether, air, fire, water, and earth are the eightfold transformation of My Prakriti. (See also 13.05) (7.04) > > That which creates diversity, and all that can be seen or known is called Prakriti. Prakriti is also the material cause or the material out of which everything is made. Prakriti is the original source of the material world consisting of three Gunas, and eight basic elements out of which everything in this universe has evolved according to Saamkhya doctrine. Prakriti is also referred to as Asat, perishable, body, matter, nature, material nature, Maya, Mahat Brahma, field, creation, and manifest state. > > This Prakriti is My lower energy. My other higher energy is the Purusha by which this entire universe is sustained, O Arjuna. (7.05) > > Purusha is the consciousness that observes, witnesses, watches, and supervises Prakrti. It is the spiritual energy or the efficient cause of the universe. This is also referred to as Sat, imperishable, Atma, consciousness, spirit, self, soul, energy, field knower, creator, and the unmanifest state. Prakriti and Purusha are not two independent identities but the two aspects of Brahman, the Absolute Reality > > Pranams. > > > > > Discover > Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Kanda, Truthfully, I don't know. Though I've read about the tattwas in various places, I don't have them memorized. I used Swamiji's description in his commentary on the Kashyapa Sutras as a reference. Going back over his list, I do not see what could be left out to make purusha twenty five. Here, look... The karma indryas are 5, the jnana indryas are 5, the tammatras are 5, and the mahabhutas are 5. That's 20 so far. Then comes manas, buddhi, chitta, and ahamkara. That's 24. Prakriti is 25, and Purusha 26. Jai Maa! Chris , kandaaran@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 5/16/05 3:25:32 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, > chriskirner1956 writes: > > In the Samkhya system of philosophy purusha is the highest. It is > synonymous with pure consciousness. However, in Tantra philosophy > purusha is not the highest, but is the twenty sixth tattwa (of thirty > six) moving from the gross to the subtle. > > > > Namaste Chris, > > In Kashmir Shaivaism purusha would be 25 of 36 Tattvas moving from the gross > to the subtle. Rishi Tirumular in the Tirumantiram also refers to the 36 > Tattvas. Agreed that the Samkhya system of philosophy sees purusha as the > highest and I've have seen references equating purusha and atman. Hope this is > not hair splitting. > > With Love > > Om Namah Sivaya > > Kanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 In a message dated 5/17/05 3:59:27 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, chriskirner1956 writes: Then comes manas, buddhi,chitta, and ahamkara. That's 24. Prakriti is 25, and Purusha 26. Namaste Chris, It seems that Kashmir Shaivaism looks at manas, buddhi and ahamkara as three capacities of mental operation and do not include chitta in that grouping. That is the difference. Om Namah Sivaya Kanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2005 Report Share Posted May 18, 2005 Kanda, Where does Kashmir Shaivaism add one then to make thirty six? Jai Maa! Chris , kandaaran@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 5/17/05 3:59:27 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, > chriskirner1956 writes: > > Then comes manas, buddhi, > chitta, and ahamkara. That's 24. Prakriti is 25, and Purusha 26. > > > > Namaste Chris, > > It seems that Kashmir Shaivaism looks at manas, buddhi and ahamkara as three > capacities of mental operation and do not include chitta in that grouping. > That is the difference. > > Om Namah Sivaya > > Kanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 Namaste Chris, We just got back from a family retreat and am trying to catch up on 300+ emails. Will give you the some info soon. Om Namah Sivaya Kanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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