Guest guest Posted May 15, 2005 Report Share Posted May 15, 2005 it is and you did. the breadth and depth of understanding that you and others here have of all this is really quite remarkable. i guess it is reflection of the source from which they came. thank you. , "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956> wrote: > Hi Eric (it is Eric, isn't it...), > > I'm not sure I had a point about at least some of what I wrote. I > began by researching the verses on meditation and discovered what > seemed to me to be patterns, in the verses on meditation, but also in > the text as a whole, that i had not realized were there. To me, as I > assume to most, the Guru Gita seems largely a collection of mostly > random, but related verses. I am beginning to think it is more > systematic than that. > > In my research on meditation in the Guru Gita I discovered that the > initial verses refered to a kind of meditation that seems to be > intended to promote a kind of gurubhava, a kind of guru meditation in > action. Then there are the three sections describing more formal, more > esoteric, meditation. Within these three examples, two involved heart > meditation, and one involved meditation on ajna and sahasrara. My > attribution of these two categories to bhaktas and jnanis, > respectively, was only intended as a loose attribution, related to the > pattern of alternating verses mostly oriented toward either devotion > or knowledge (with some seeming to blend the two). > > As I understand these things, in meditative traditions, when a new > student receives training she is given either the heart or the ajna > chakra as a focus for her meditation practice by the gurudeva. This is > done according to the individual nature of the student. More > intellectual people are generally given ajna, while the more emotional > folks are generally given anahata. Thus my loose attribution of these > meditations to jnanis and bhaktas. > > The current verse, verse 113, in fact, the group of verses from 109 to > 119, describe a heart meditation. This one is a nirguna meditation > (meditation on the guru/purusha without a body). The other heart > meditation is saguna (with attributes [a body]). > > Actually, it is possible that this nirguna meditation in the heart > represents the beginning of the final union of bhakti and jnana, as > the wisdom of the soul arises in the meditation. > > I hope I answered your question. > > Jai Maa! > Chris > > > > , "ecjensen_us" <ecjensen_us> > wrote: > > OM NAMAH SIVAYA > > > > Chris thank you for this(and the post on pranayama). but i am not > > sure i understand your point. it seems what your driving at is that > > this text basically says that irrespective of jnani or bhakti, > > individual or universal soul, meditation is focused in the anahata > > (heart) chakra vs. say the ajna(3rd eye) chakra. not at all boring. > > > > JAI MA > > > > , "Chris Kirner" > > <chriskirner1956> wrote: > > > Kalia, > > > > > > I had been wanting to point out the meditation aspect of this > > verse. > > > As in so many other verses previous to this, we are enjoined to > > > meditate upon the guru. > > > > > > I began by looking through the text for the other meditation verses > > > and began to see patterns. The problem is, they are not simple, or > > > obvious patterns. > > > > > > I have mentioned before the mixing of the transcendental and the > > > material, the guru as God and the guru as human, in the Guru Gita. > > In > > > looking through the meditation passages there appear to be other > > > examples of the same thing, as well as, perhaps, underlying themes. > > > > > > One such intermingling of seemingly disparate ideas is that of > > bhakti > > > and jnana, worship and wisdom. The message seems to be that as the > > > guru herself is the personification of union of the apparently > > > disparate, so the path of the guru unites the paths of bhakti and > > > jnana. Passages meant to appeal to the jnani, and passages meant to > > > appeal to the bhakta, are intermingled, as are passages apparently > > > representing the union of those principle paths. > > > > > > In the Guru Gita we are from time to time enjoined to do something, > > > perform some act in relation to the guru. This is practice, the > > > application (beyond that of repetition of the mantras). Sometimes > > we > > > are told simply to bow in recognition of some particular aspect of > > the > > > guru. Sometimes we are told to repeat the mantra of the guru, or > > > repeat the name of the guru. Sometimes we are told to worship. > > > Sometimes we are told to serve. Sometimes we are told to remember, > > > with love and reverence. Sometimes we are told to contemplate, > > > sometimes intuit. Sometimes we are told to meditate. > > > > > > Leaving aside the dhyanam, the first time we are told to meditate > > on > > > the guru is vs.15. We are told to "Always meditate upon the guru, > > > [and] always recite the mantra of the guru." This is a primary > > > meditative practice, an easy one that can be done anywhere, > > anytime. > > > The idea is to make the gurudeva part of you, to fulfill your > > impulse > > > to surrender and devote yourself to the gurudeva. So, in verse 18 > > it > > > says, "Eternally remembering the image of the guru, always making > > > recitation of the name of the guru, always observing the > > instruction > > > of the guru, always maintain the attitude of none other than the > > > guru." In the next verse, we are told to meditate on the > > guru "...just > > > as a loving woman dreams of her husband," and in the verse after > > that > > > (vs.20), to "Deeply intuit the attitude of the guru and no other," > > > followed by (vs.21) "Not contemplating anything other than me..." > > > > > > If you remember back to the...hmmm...I've spaced it. You know, the > > > beginning;the statement of purpose, where the meter, shakti, deva, > > > etc. are stated, anyway, it says the purpose of this recitation is > > the > > > attainment of perfection in the blessings of the guru. > > > > > > So the first step of that seems to be the development of guru > > bhava, > > > through constant remembrance, contemplation, and meditation on the > > > guru with the guru mantra (if you have one). > > > > > > Next seems to come service, and then some more advanced, or shall > > we > > > say subtle, meditation practices (which brings me, sort of, back to > > > the verses we are looking at now, and for the next few days). > > > > > > Now, the meditation practices given here, separate and distinct > > from > > > those whose purpose is mindfulness of, and connection with the > > guru, > > > seem to be of two major types (with one subdivision). The first is > > for > > > jnanis, or those who are more oriented toward the intellect, and > > the > > > second is for bhaktas, or those who are more heart oriented. Within > > > the bhakti meditations are one (the first) where the guru is saguna > > > (with qualities), he has a form, and the second, where the guru is > > > nirguna (without qualities), and this one is the subject of the > > > current study (vs. 113). > > > > > > If you want to look back, you can see the jnani meditation in > > verses > > > 57 and 58. This meditation can be either saguna or nirguna, > > depending > > > on the needs of the individual. > > > > > > The bhakta saguna meditation is found in verses 91 and 92. His > > form is > > > described in detail, and placed, as in this verse (113), in the > > heart. > > > > > > Looking through these verses again, in reference to vs. 113, I > > > realized there seems to be a clear division of subject from verse > > 109 > > > to verse 119. All of these verses describe or explain this nirguna > > > practice of meditation which occurs at anahata chakra, or in the > > heart. > > > > > > For brevity's sake I'll just compare vs. 110 with the present > > > verse. Verse 110 says that because of the guru we can perceive our > > own > > > soul, and that "...by means of this path of the Guru, the wisdom of > > > one's own soul arises." > > > > > > Verse 113 says that this being "...who is higher than the highest," > > > lives in the heart, which coincidentally, is where the individual > > soul > > > is also found. This being "...illuminates the purest clarity," > > which > > > to me means wisdom. > > > > > > In verse 114, we find that the individual soul is indeed "...the > > > reflection of infinite consciousness." So, it seems vs. 110 and 113 > > > run pretty parallel to one another, one seemingly discussing the > > > devotee's soul, and the other apparently discussing the > > transcendent > > > presence of the guru, but both actually describing the same thing. > > > > > > Hope I didn't bore anyone too much. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Kali Kali > > > <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote: > > > > > > > > Today we have reached 113 and here's how the verse reads - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Meditate upon that being who is higher that the highest. He is > > the > > > cause of eternal bliss. He resides within the space of your heart > > and > > > illuminates the purest clarity." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Comment: Here again we see the greatness of this Being call Guru. > > > There is none higher than the Guru, the Guru has attained the > > highest > > > possible level of consciousness and is in total union with Her/His > > > soul. Always remembering the greatness of this Pure Being > > established > > > upon a throne within the heart, perform all duties with > > > non-attachment Do your duty as a service to the God and humanity > > and > > > see God alone in everything. When we can remember that all works > > are > > > done by the energy of nature and we are but only instruments, then > > the > > > bliss of being (clarity) is illuminated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pranams to Beloved Gurujis. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kalia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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