Guru Gita Verse 121

[Guest guest]

The Respected Great Lord replied

 

Verse 121.

 

The consecrated offering is the energy known as kundalini. The

syllables that rise in the heart are Ham and Sah. Form is known as

the bindu, one pointed awareness. And that which is beyond form is

infinite.

 

Comment: The energy known as Kundalini is the lotus which we continue

to speak of. The lotus is the soul's light which climbs through the

chakras starting from the base at the muladhara, climbing through the

mud (phlegm, mucus, blood, etc) of this transitory body to reach the

sahasrara. Swamiji says that the Lotus is the highest residence of

consciousness before it moves beyond the body. The kundalini rises

through the grace of Guru.

 

Ham and Sah are the feet of Guru who is seated in the middle of that

fountain of light, the Lotus at the crown. Form is that centre

point, the bindu , the point of union. Beyond form to be formeless

one must be rid of the load of attachment, we must become formless to

realize the formless Divine.

 

Please share your

comments.Do You

?

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Kalia,

 

although this verse remains very obscure to me, I'd like to let you

know what I thought about:

> The consecrated offering is the energy known as kundalini.

 

In verse 119 we were told that when one meditates upon the Guru,

he/she becomes the manifestation of Supreme Divinity. And one of the

results or effects of this is that he/she is liberated in 'consecrated

offering'. In this verse we are told that this offering is the energy

known as kundalini. Kundalini, as I understand, is the energy also

known as 'serpent fire', which must be awakened and raised through the

central channel to the head. This 'rising' of energy reminded me of

verse 98, where it was said that if we meditate in the manner

prescribed ('There is nothing more than the Guru. This alone is

Shiva'), wisdom would rise of its own accord. In verse 10 it was said

that the Guru is he who gives rise to the light by which illumination

is known. This leads me to think that the rising of the energy called

Kundalini has everything to do with our growing awareneness, by the

grace of the Guru, of our true 'I' and our growing willingness to

surrender our all to the Guru: no longer going after our own selfish

desires and spending our energy on that, but giving this up in favour

of seeking guidance from the Guru. This initial 'turning in' and

'giving up' could be experienced, by our limited personal

consciousness, as a sacrifice, at first. But it is a consecrated

offering, because all that we desire, think and do is 'set aside' for

the purpose of service and offered at the feet of the Guru.

And once the energy starts to rise, it will rise further and further,

because there is no limit to offering and service. So there is

liberation in that.

On another level, the verse can also refer to the 'moon' Shiva carries

as the 'cup of sacrifice', and to the union of Shiva and Shakti, but I

would not know what to say about that.

 

I have the idea (but that may be totally wrong, of course) that our

growing willingness to surrender reaches a critical point once the

energy has risen to the level of the heart-chakra (or has been 'drawn'

to that level). It is only then that we can 'recognize' the Guru. And

in that regard, the feet of the Guru puzzle me. Kaliaji, you wrote:

>Ham and Sah are the feet of Guru who is seated in the middle of that

>fountain of light, the Lotus at the crown.

 

yet in the text it is said that these syllables rise in the heart. I

have an image in my mind of the feet of the guru being in the heart,

as the first glimpses of Truth you 'see' when rising in consciousness

(or the clouds of ignorance lessen) and which you then hold onto for

dear life, lest the 'ocean of hell or the sea of conflict and

confusion' take you down. But that's just an image.

 

To be liberated in form: what does that mean? If the bindu is the

point where form manifests and also dissolves, being established in

the bindu must mean total freedom to 'come and go', never identified

with a specific form, yet able to use form as an 'instrument for

expression'.

 

Oh well, I'll spare you the rest of my thoughts, which are becoming

more and more labyrinthesque.

 

I bow to the Guru: teach me the path, give me your grace, I bow to

your feet.

 

 

with love,

Henny

 

 

, Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati@y.

...> wrote:

>

> The Respected Great Lord replied

>

>

>

> Verse 121.

>

>

>

> The consecrated offering is the energy known as kundalini. The

syllables that rise in the heart are Ham and Sah. Form is known as

the bindu, one pointed awareness. And that which is beyond form is

infinite.

>

>

>

> Comment: The energy known as Kundalini is the lotus which we

continue to speak of. The lotus is the soul's light which climbs

through the chakras starting from the base at the muladhara, climbing

through the mud (phlegm, mucus, blood, etc) of this transitory body to

reach the sahasrara. Swamiji says that the Lotus is the highest

residence of consciousness before it moves beyond the body. The

kundalini rises through the grace of Guru.

>

>

>

> Ham and Sah are the feet of Guru who is seated in the middle of that

fountain of light, the Lotus at the crown. Form is that centre point,

the bindu , the point of union. Beyond form to be formeless one must

be rid of the load of attachment, we must become formless to realize

the formless Divine.

>

>

>

> Please share your comments.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your response. It was at the end that I realised it was

Henny and not Chris writing to me, this is really a beautiful post.

The verse is also obsure to me but by sharing our thoughts and ideas I

believe that the understanding would come. Yours is an explanation of

kundalini as is the Lotus. There are some questions coming out of

your response that I will forward to Swamiji for answers but on the

aspect of Ham and Sah. Nanda posted Swamiji's response to this

sometime this week. Please do not hold back your thoughts for though

you might find them labyrinthesque, they may hold the answer to

questions that others (Kalia included) seek.

Thanks again for your response. Hope that Chris and others will respond to your post.

Jai Guru!

henny_v_i <HvI (AT) SoftHome (DOT) net> wrote:

Dear Kalia,although this verse remains very obscure to me, I'd like to

let you know what I thought about:> The consecrated offering is the

energy known as kundalini.In verse 119 we were told that when one

meditates upon the Guru, he/she becomes the manifestation of Supreme

Divinity. And one of the results or effects of this is that he/she is

liberated in 'consecrated offering'. In this verse we are told that

this offering is the energy known as kundalini. Kundalini, as I

understand, is the energy also known as 'serpent fire', which must be

awakened and raised through the central channel to the head. This

'rising' of energy reminded me of verse 98, where it was said that if

we meditate in the manner prescribed ('There is nothing more than the

Guru. This alone is Shiva'), wisdom would rise of its own accord. In

verse

10 it was said that the Guru is he who gives rise to the light by

which illumination is known. This leads me to think that the rising

of the energy called Kundalini has everything to do with our growing

awareneness, by the grace of the Guru, of our true 'I' and our

growing willingness to surrender our all to the Guru: no longer going

after our own selfish desires and spending our energy on that, but

giving this up in favour of seeking guidance from the Guru. This

initial 'turning in' and 'giving up' could be experienced, by our

limited personal consciousness, as a sacrifice, at first. But it is a

consecrated offering, because all that we desire, think and do is 'set

aside' for the purpose of service and offered at the feet of the

Guru.And once the energy starts to rise, it will rise further and

further, because there is no limit to offering and service. So there

is liberation in that. On another level, the verse can also

refer to the 'moon' Shiva carries as the 'cup of sacrifice', and to

the union of Shiva and Shakti, but I would not know what to say about

that.I have the idea (but that may be totally wrong, of course) that

our growing willingness to surrender reaches a critical point once

the energy has risen to the level of the heart-chakra (or has been

'drawn' to that level). It is only then that we can 'recognize' the

Guru. And in that regard, the feet of the Guru puzzle me. Kaliaji,

you wrote:>Ham and Sah are the feet of Guru who is seated in the

middle of that >fountain of light, the Lotus at the crown.yet in the

text it is said that these syllables rise in the heart. I have an

image in my mind of the feet of the guru being in the heart, as the

first glimpses of Truth you 'see' when rising in consciousness (or

the clouds of ignorance lessen) and which you then hold onto for dear

life, lest the 'ocean of hell or the sea

of conflict and confusion' take you down. But that's just an image. To

be liberated in form: what does that mean? If the bindu is the point

where form manifests and also dissolves, being established in the

bindu must mean total freedom to 'come and go', never identified with

a specific form, yet able to use form as an 'instrument for

expression'. Oh well, I'll spare you the rest of my thoughts, which

are becoming more and more labyrinthesque. I bow to the Guru: teach

me the path, give me your grace, I bow to your feet.with love,Henny

, Kali Kali

<kaliananda_saraswati> wrote:> > The Respected Great Lord

replied> > > > Verse 121. > > > > The consecrated

offering is the energy known as kundalini. The

syllables that rise in the heart are Ham and Sah. Form is known as

the bindu, one pointed awareness. And that which is beyond form is

infinite.> > > > Comment: The energy known as Kundalini is the lotus

which we continue to speak of. The lotus is the soul's light which

climbs through the chakras starting from the base at the muladhara,

climbing through the mud (phlegm, mucus, blood, etc) of this

transitory body to reach the sahasrara. Swamiji says that the Lotus

is the highest residence of consciousness before it moves beyond the

body. The kundalini rises through the grace of Guru. > > > > Ham

and Sah are the feet of Guru who is seated in the middle of that

fountain of light, the Lotus at the crown. Form is that centre

point, the bindu , the point of union. Beyond form to be formeless

one must be rid of the load of

attachment, we must become formless to realize the formless Divine.> >

> > Please share your comments.> > > > >

> >

>

Do

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[Guest guest]

, "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote:

> Dear Kalia,

>

> although this verse remains very obscure to me, I'd like to let you

> know what I thought about:

>

> > The consecrated offering is the energy known as kundalini.

>

> In verse 119 we were told that when one meditates upon the Guru,

> he/she becomes the manifestation of Supreme Divinity. And one of the

> results or effects of this is that he/she is liberated in 'consecrated

> offering'. In this verse we are told that this offering is the energy

> known as kundalini. Kundalini, as I understand, is the energy also

> known as 'serpent fire', which must be awakened and raised through the

> central channel to the head. This 'rising' of energy reminded me of

> verse 98, where it was said that if we meditate in the manner

> prescribed ('There is nothing more than the Guru. This alone is

> Shiva'), wisdom would rise of its own accord. In verse 10 it was said

> that the Guru is he who gives rise to the light by which illumination

> is known. This leads me to think that the rising of the energy called

> Kundalini has everything to do with our growing awareneness,

 

 

Henny,

This matter of Kundalini is complex. As Swamiji pointed out recently,

Kundalini is the light of the soul, it is the very force which

animates this form. So, in a sense, Kundalini is always awake. There

is also a manifesting of Kundalini that begins when She is awakened in

the devotee, that takes place gradually as the sadhana progresses

(remember, all of this awareness and bliss we experience is ultimately

Kundalini). There is also the Kundalini experience we have all heard

or read about. It is very dramatic. She awakens with a loud noise,

angry, as it were, at being aroused. In great power She devours

everything in sight. The force of her awakening renders Shiva inert,

and She dances on his corpse-like body. I am reminded of this every

time I read about Kali in the Chandi. The jiva in whom She has

awakened, like Shiva, becomes inert, helpless before Her raw power.

His only recourse is to pray for the advent of Durga to restore

balance. It is said that when Durga appears, Kali is passified.

 

 

 

by the

> grace of the Guru, of our true 'I' and our growing willingness to

> surrender our all to the Guru: no longer going after our own selfish

> desires and spending our energy on that, but giving this up in favour

> of seeking guidance from the Guru. This initial 'turning in' and

> 'giving up' could be experienced, by our limited personal

> consciousness, as a sacrifice, at first. But it is a consecrated

> offering, because all that we desire, think and do is 'set aside' for

> the purpose of service and offered at the feet of the Guru.

> And once the energy starts to rise, it will rise further and further,

> because there is no limit to offering and service. So there is

> liberation in that.

 

 

Very nicely said.

 

 

> On another level, the verse can also refer to the 'moon' Shiva carries

> as the 'cup of sacrifice', and to the union of Shiva and Shakti, but I

> would not know what to say about that.

>

> I have the idea (but that may be totally wrong, of course) that our

> growing willingness to surrender reaches a critical point once the

> energy has risen to the level of the heart-chakra (or has been 'drawn'

> to that level). It is only then that we can 'recognize' the Guru. And

> in that regard, the feet of the Guru puzzle me. Kaliaji, you wrote:

>

> >Ham and Sah are the feet of Guru who is seated in the middle of that

> >fountain of light, the Lotus at the crown.

>

> yet in the text it is said that these syllables rise in the heart. I

> have an image in my mind of the feet of the guru being in the heart,

> as the first glimpses of Truth you 'see' when rising in consciousness

> (or the clouds of ignorance lessen) and which you then hold onto for

> dear life, lest the 'ocean of hell or the sea of conflict and

> confusion' take you down. But that's just an image.

 

 

My guru wrote about why we venerate the feet of the guru once. I don't

remember it well, but I will try to repeat it.

 

When the Guru goes into meditation, he becomes one with the formless.

His consciousness, his very being rise above the heavens. His feet

where they touch the earth are all that we can reach. So we venerate

his feet.

 

On a purely symbolic level, ham and sah represent the feet of the

gurutattwa, who is at once unmanifest sat chit ananda, and all this.

The feet represent manifest existence, or the potential of manifest

existence (if ham and sah are seen in sahasrara chakra).

>

> To be liberated in form: what does that mean? If the bindu is the

> point where form manifests and also dissolves, being established in

> the bindu must mean total freedom to 'come and go', never identified

> with a specific form, yet able to use form as an 'instrument for

> expression'.

 

 

I don't know. I want to ask Swamiji about this too... Kalia was right;

a very beautiful post.

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

>

> Oh well, I'll spare you the rest of my thoughts, which are becoming

> more and more labyrinthesque.

>

> I bow to the Guru: teach me the path, give me your grace, I bow to

> your feet.

>

>

> with love,

> Henny

>

>

> , Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati@y.

> ..> wrote:

> >

> > The Respected Great Lord replied

> >

> >

> >

> > Verse 121.

> >

> >

> >

> > The consecrated offering is the energy known as kundalini. The

> syllables that rise in the heart are Ham and Sah. Form is known as

> the bindu, one pointed awareness. And that which is beyond form is

> infinite.

> >

> >

> >

> > Comment: The energy known as Kundalini is the lotus which we

> continue to speak of. The lotus is the soul's light which climbs

> through the chakras starting from the base at the muladhara, climbing

> through the mud (phlegm, mucus, blood, etc) of this transitory body to

> reach the sahasrara. Swamiji says that the Lotus is the highest

> residence of consciousness before it moves beyond the body. The

> kundalini rises through the grace of Guru.

> >

> >

> >

> > Ham and Sah are the feet of Guru who is seated in the middle of that

> fountain of light, the Lotus at the crown. Form is that centre point,

> the bindu , the point of union. Beyond form to be formeless one must

> be rid of the load of attachment, we must become formless to realize

> the formless Divine.

> >

> >

> >

> > Please share your comments.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Kalia,

 

I have a bunch of questions for Swamiji. Would you do me the honor of

forwarding to him?

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

 

 

Swamiji,

 

"Oh Shankara, Cause of Peace, please explain this to me."

 

I really hope this will not be too much for you. I know how busy you

are. If I ask a question you have answered already, please feel free

to ignore it. There is a lot I have questions about, and I apologize

for what will likely be a long explanation, but I really wish to

understand the meaning of these passages.

 

There are four successive verses mentioning pinda, pada, and rupa

(119-122). This is a lot of reinforcement of this idea. Pinda, pada,

and rupa are gross, outward actions, the author is using to describe a

very subtle, or inward, process. Why? My thought is that these are

meant to bring to mind all of the outward activities we perform that

are our gurupuja, of which, this awakening is the "prasad of grace."

But then he goes on to say very clearly that we are "liberated in"

each of these three, seperately. I do not understand this. Why not

'liberated through,' or 'liberated by'? What does this mean?

 

Verses 113-118 and verses 119-127 seem to follow a similar pattern.

There is the description of a practice and experience followed by a

description of what it might be like to be enlightened. At first, I

thought these two sections were separate; then I decided they

overlapped, both describing the same thing; now I find myself thinking

(minus the descriptions of divine experience) they are sequential. The

sequence would go something like this: Meditate on the Guru in the

space of the heart; know Him there as your own soul; see Him there as

a light the size of the thumb, where He illuminates perfect clarity

and gives rise to a special bhaava. By means of this meditation (as

the prasad of grace of the Guru) Kundalini rises, Shiva and Shakti

(ham sah) are united to form bindu, and when bindu is pierced, form is

transcended. Do I have this right, or have I missed something?

 

OK, now to this so ham, ham sah. Am I correct in my perception that

ham sah is sort of an involute of so ham? In other words, so ham

represents Shiva and Shakti, active and passive breaths, as separated

or manifested, and ham sah represents them as perfected in union?

 

Now, about ham sah arising in the heart. I've been wrestling with

this, thinking well, maybe it's a practice, maybe it's actually a

subtle sound that arises in the heart at a certain point, but I'm

thinking now that maybe your earlier answer to Kalia was the answer to

this as well, and this too is the one lotus of which we are speaking.

If I am remembering correctly, bindu is said to rise from the ajna

chakra, BUT it is experienced in anahata, isn't it? Bindu is described

in the text as one-pointed awareness. But bindu is also ham Sah, isn't

it, the union of Shiva and Shakti, the union of the two breaths (not

quite perfected?)? Let's see if I can describe this properly then,

Kundalini rises when there is union (or at least balance of) the two

breaths on the gross level. Her arising creates one-pointed awareness,

bringing about the formation of bindu, perceived in the heart as the

two subtle breaths, so ham, are brought into union, creating ham sah.

Uniting entirely with Her, they (we, I) pierce the bindu (glorious

). So, if I've gotten this right, it is all a single process, created

by a single cause, the rising lotus Kundalini.

 

I think that's all I have questions about, now...

Thanks vey much.

 

The Respected Great Lord replied:

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

 

 

 

, Kali Kali

<kaliananda_saraswati> wrote:

>

> The Respected Great Lord replied

>

>

>

> Verse 121.

>

>

>

> The consecrated offering is the energy known as kundalini. The

syllables that rise in the heart are Ham and Sah. Form is known as

the bindu, one pointed awareness. And that which is beyond form is

infinite.

>

>

>

> Comment: The energy known as Kundalini is the lotus which we

continue to speak of. The lotus is the soul's light which climbs

through the chakras starting from the base at the muladhara, climbing

through the mud (phlegm, mucus, blood, etc) of this transitory body to

reach the sahasrara. Swamiji says that the Lotus is the highest

residence of consciousness before it moves beyond the body. The

kundalini rises through the grace of Guru.

>

>

>

> Ham and Sah are the feet of Guru who is seated in the middle of that

fountain of light, the Lotus at the crown. Form is that centre point,

the bindu , the point of union. Beyond form to be formeless one must

be rid of the load of attachment, we must become formless to realize

the formless Divine.

>

>

>

> Please share your comments.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks so very much for this explanation. Other than book research

the only teaching on these scriptures are from the few times that I

was able to visit Gurujis and from this forum, it is at times very

difficult to put in words what the heart is communicating.

Thanks again dear brother.

Pranams

KaliaChris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > wrote:

, "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote:>

Dear Kalia,> > although this verse remains very obscure to me, I'd

like to let you > know what I thought about:> > > The consecrated

offering is the energy known as kundalini.> > In verse 119 we were

told that when one meditates upon the Guru, > he/she becomes the

manifestation of Supreme Divinity. And one of the > results or

effects of this is that he/she is liberated in 'consecrated >

offering'. In this verse we are told that this offering is the energy

> known as kundalini. Kundalini, as I understand, is the energy also >

known as 'serpent fire', which must be awakened and raised through the

> central channel to the head. This 'rising' of energy reminded me of

> verse 98, where it was said that if we

meditate in the manner > prescribed ('There is nothing more than the

Guru. This alone is > Shiva'), wisdom would rise of its own accord.

In verse 10 it was said > that the Guru is he who gives rise to the

light by which illumination > is known. This leads me to think that

the rising of the energy called > Kundalini has everything to do with

our growing awareneness,Henny, This matter of Kundalini is complex. As

Swamiji pointed out recently,Kundalini is the light of the soul, it is

the very force whichanimates this form. So, in a sense, Kundalini is

always awake. Thereis also a manifesting of Kundalini that begins

when She is awakened inthe devotee, that takes place gradually as the

sadhana progresses(remember, all of this awareness and bliss we

experience is ultimatelyKundalini). There is also the Kundalini

experience we have all heardor read about. It is very dramatic. She

awakens with a loud

noise,angry, as it were, at being aroused. In great power She

devourseverything in sight. The force of her awakening renders Shiva

inert,and She dances on his corpse-like body. I am reminded of this

everytime I read about Kali in the Chandi. The jiva in whom She

hasawakened, like Shiva, becomes inert, helpless before Her raw

power.His only recourse is to pray for the advent of Durga to

restorebalance. It is said that when Durga appears, Kali is

passified.by the > grace of the Guru, of our true 'I' and our growing

willingness to > surrender our all to the Guru: no longer going after

our own selfish > desires and spending our energy on that, but giving

this up in favour > of seeking guidance from the Guru. This initial

'turning in' and > 'giving up' could be experienced, by our limited

personal > consciousness, as a sacrifice, at first. But it is a

consecrated > offering, because all that we

desire, think and do is 'set aside' for > the purpose of service and

offered at the feet of the Guru.> And once the energy starts to rise,

it will rise further and further, > because there is no limit to

offering and service. So there is > liberation in that. Very nicely

said.> On another level, the verse can also refer to the 'moon' Shiva

carries > as the 'cup of sacrifice', and to the union of Shiva and

Shakti, but I > would not know what to say about that.> > I have the

idea (but that may be totally wrong, of course) that our > growing

willingness to surrender reaches a critical point once the > energy

has risen to the level of the heart-chakra (or has been 'drawn' > to

that level). It is only then that we can 'recognize' the Guru. And >

in that regard, the feet of the Guru puzzle me. Kaliaji, you wrote:>

> >Ham and Sah are the feet of Guru who

is seated in the middle of that > >fountain of light, the Lotus at the

crown.> > yet in the text it is said that these syllables rise in the

heart. I > have an image in my mind of the feet of the guru being in

the heart, > as the first glimpses of Truth you 'see' when rising in

consciousness > (or the clouds of ignorance lessen) and which you

then hold onto for > dear life, lest the 'ocean of hell or the sea of

conflict and > confusion' take you down. But that's just an image. My

guru wrote about why we venerate the feet of the guru once. I

don'tremember it well, but I will try to repeat it.When the Guru goes

into meditation, he becomes one with the formless.His consciousness,

his very being rise above the heavens. His feetwhere they touch the

earth are all that we can reach. So we veneratehis feet.On a purely

symbolic level, ham and sah represent the feet of thegurutattwa, who

is at once unmanifest sat chit ananda, and all this.The feet represent

manifest existence, or the potential of manifestexistence (if ham and

sah are seen in sahasrara chakra).> > To be liberated in form: what

does that mean? If the bindu is the > point where form manifests and

also dissolves, being established in > the bindu must mean total

freedom to 'come and go', never identified > with a specific form,

yet able to use form as an 'instrument for > expression'. I don't

know. I want to ask Swamiji about this too... Kalia was right;a very

beautiful post. :)Jai Maa!Chris> > Oh well, I'll spare you the rest

of my thoughts, which are becoming > more and more labyrinthesque. >

> I bow to the Guru: teach me the path, give me your grace, I bow to

> your feet.> > > with love,> Henny > > > --- In

, Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati@y.> ..>

wrote:> > > > The Respected Great Lord replied> > > > > > > > Verse

121. > > > > > > > > The consecrated offering is the

energy known as kundalini. The > syllables that rise in the heart

are Ham and Sah. Form is known as > the bindu, one pointed

awareness. And that which is beyond form is > infinite.> > > > > >

> > Comment: The energy known as Kundalini is the lotus which we >

continue to speak of. The lotus is the soul's light which climbs >

through the chakras starting from the base at the muladhara, climbing

> through the mud (phlegm, mucus, blood, etc) of this transitory body

to > reach the sahasrara.

Swamiji says that the Lotus is the highest > residence of

consciousness before it moves beyond the body. The > kundalini rises

through the grace of Guru. > > > > > > > > Ham and Sah are the feet

of Guru who is seated in the middle of that > fountain of light, the

Lotus at the crown. Form is that centre point, > the bindu , the

point of union. Beyond form to be formeless one must > be rid of the

load of attachment, we must become formless to realize > the formless

Divine.> > > > > > > > Please share your comments.> > > > > > > > >

> > > Do You

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