Guest guest Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 beloved chris, thank you so much for your heartfelt response and for sharing your own experience. your words really help to soothe some anxiety i have about this. i think you hit it on the head (so-to-speak) when you mentioned fear. there is some fear here. anyway, i really appreciate the kindness in this message. i will heed your advice and work on this in my prayer life. Be Love, Berijoy http://www.egyirba.net `/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/ -=-=- .... She who knows her heart mistrusts her eyes. ~ Chinese Proverb -=-=- .... I walk the path knowing that how I perceive the journey literally creates what's beyond the next bend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 thank you, kalia. thank you, i will. Kali Kali wrote: > Dear Berijoy, > > Since you know "/there is authenticity" /and that /"swamiji and > shreemaa are the real deal/" then why not try it for yourself, allow > yourself to fall in love ...only then will you really understand what > it is like. Believe me, you will never, never regret it. > > Thanks so much for sharing you thoughts with us, Maa and Swamiji > always likes honesty. May Guru's arms enfold you and guide you. > > Love always Kalia Be Love, Berijoy http://www.egyirba.net `/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/ -=-=- .... Laughing at our mistakes can lengthen our own life. Laughing at someone else's can shorten it.~Cullen Hightower -=-=- .... The art of being wise is the art of knowing what to overlook. ~William James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 ooh, good point! thank you, k. i think i have some of that going on...definitely working on it! kalibhakta wrote: [snipped] personally, I > don't believe that the voices saying "watch out, be careful, don't be > stupid, etc." are asurik voices at all. (but the ones that say "you > don't deserve happiness or a relationship with God/guru" ARE > asurik.) Be Love, Berijoy http://www.egyirba.net `/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/ -=-=- .... In meditation, be at ease, be as natural and spacious as possible. Slip quietly out of the noose of your habitual anxious self, release all grasping, and relax into your true nature. ~Sogyal Rinpoche -=-=- .... It's not the honors and not the titles and not the power that is of ultimate importance. It's what resides inside. ~Fred Rogers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 thank you for sharing your observations, nirmalananda! Be Love, Berijoy http://www.egyirba.net `/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/ -=-=- .... Laughing at our mistakes can lengthen our own life. Laughing at someone else's can shorten it.~Cullen Hightower -=-=- .... "When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the universe." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 NirmalandaThanks for giving us these images of the gurus as humble people --that is the guru for me.steve--- In , Nirmalananda Saraswati<nirmalananda1008> wrote:> HI Berijoy,> > You raise an interesting point. > > "while i think a certain reverance and awe is in order, thesometimes fawning (or so it seems to me), almost falling over the guruthat i have read about seems exaggerated."> > It's a point well taken. I have seen Maa react to the exaggeratedfawning or falling over reverence to Her in a way that makes one thinkMaa feels the same way about it. Shree Maa, and Swami Ji also, seem tobe able to look into the heart of the person who offers reverence tothem, and know whether or not it's real or just for show. > > It seems to depend on where the person's heart is at. Also Maa andSwami are very humble. Every time I've seen people try to put agarland of flowers on Swami Ji, he immedeately tries to take it off,or won't even allow it. Maa usually allows the garland, but takes itoff after a few minutes and offers it to one of the deities, thusgiving it to God. Sometimes when Maa would straiten up someone'salter, if there was a picture of Maa on the alter, along with otherdeities, etc., Maa would put Her picture towards the back of thealter, thus giving the dieties the front. > > Berijoy <berijoy> wrote:> hello chris,> for me, i am still trying to appreciate the guru gita. i think eventhough i have discrimination in whom i would likely surrender to (surelike to think so anyway), i still find it difficult to get whateverit is others are getting from this text. i am just not so moved as iwish i was. and the idea of a kind of guru worship--well, even ifintellectually i know that this guru is the ultimate principle, it'sstill a human being modelling the principle for us. while i candefinitely defer to those who have more spiritual knowledge andexperience than me, in general, i see gurus or saints the same as isee jesus the christ, and that is as teachers and examples of how todo it right. that i get. perhaps it is what others do in the presenceof saints that gives me pause. while i think a certain reverance andawe is in order, the sometimes fawning (or so it seems to me), almostfalling over the guru that i have read about seems exaggerated.> > i suppose i have not yet learned to understand and appreciate the"gurudeva for what she does for us." what is the 'much' that isreceived from the guru in the body? i would really like to feel andget this connection that many seem to have.> > > > In the tradition I came from, though in truth my gurudeva lovedhis > > master very much, obeyed him completely, and respected himhighly, > > the "order" was that the guru was not to be worshipped. The factof > > the matter is, though, that there is no other definition I knowof > > for worship than the demonstration of love, obedience, andrespect.> > > > Anyway, when I read the Guru Gita the first few times it seemedto > > promote guru-worship to the point of mindlessness, and thattended to> > put me off. But in the introduction Swamiji points out that as > > disciples we need to use our discrimination, so there is a way to > > approach the Guru, surrender, and become an extension of theGuru, > > without losing our personal uniqueness. The Guru Gita itselffocuses> > so much on the attainment of wisdom that it surprises me I never > > really noticed before.> > > > The gurutattwa gives us everything - our very lives - and much is > > received through the guru in the body. We can never repay the > > gurudeva for what she does for us. How can one repay what isbeyond > > price? If we receive even a little light from the Guru in thislife, > > how much suffering is averted, how much peace created? TheGurudeva > > is the font of all grace. I offer myself at the feet of thegurudeva.> > I bow, I bow, I bow to the compassionate gurudeva.> > > > Jai Maa! Chris> > > > > > Be Love,> Berijoy> http://www.egyirba.net> `/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/> -=-=-> ....> Self-enquiry is the direct path to Self-realization orenlightenment. The only way to make the mind> cease its outward activities is to turn it inward. By steady andcontinuous investigation into the nature> of the mind, the mind itself gets transformed into That to which itowes its own existence. - Ramesh S. Balsekar> -=-=-> ... > Sometimes our light goes out but is blown into a flame by anotherhuman being. Each of us owes deepest thanks to those who haverekindled this light. --Albert Schweitzer> > > > > Links> > > /> > To from this group, send an email to:> > > Your use of Groups is subject to the Terms ofService. > > > > > > ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 Nirmalananda, You make a very good point here. Maa and Swamiji are as unpretentious as the ground we walk on (also, if you think about it, as sublime). On retreat I have noticed swamiji is careful that his feet are always hidden, so that he's not seeming to invite veneration. At one retreat I attended though, Swamiji did something very special for me. It was finished at the homa, and for that time, I believe Maa instructed him to sit next to her with feet exposed so that I could properly offer my respect and thanks for what he had done. It is something I still regret that I was, in my ignorance, too uncertain and afraid to bow and touch his feet, even though every opportunity was given me to do so. I know they both understand, but I still regret. Jai Maa! Chris , Nirmalananda Saraswati <nirmalananda1008> wrote: > HI Berijoy, > > You raise an interesting point. > > "while i think a certain reverance and awe is in order, the sometimes fawning (or so it seems to me), almost falling over the guru that i have read about seems exaggerated." > > It's a point well taken. I have seen Maa react to the exaggerated fawning or falling over reverence to Her in a way that makes one think Maa feels the same way about it. Shree Maa, and Swami Ji also, seem to be able to look into the heart of the person who offers reverence to them, and know whether or not it's real or just for show. > > It seems to depend on where the person's heart is at. Also Maa and Swami are very humble. Every time I've seen people try to put a garland of flowers on Swami Ji, he immedeately tries to take it off, or won't even allow it. Maa usually allows the garland, but takes it off after a few minutes and offers it to one of the deities, thus giving it to God. Sometimes when Maa would straiten up someone's alter, if there was a picture of Maa on the alter, along with other deities, etc., Maa would put Her picture towards the back of the alter, thus giving the dieties the front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 Berijoy, I'm glad you found my words helpful, but really, it's all the guru. If anything touched you, it was the gurudeva. Jai Maa! Chris , Berijoy <berijoy> wrote: > > beloved chris, > > thank you so much for your heartfelt response and for sharing your own > experience. your words really help to soothe some anxiety i have about > this. i think you hit it on the head (so-to-speak) when you mentioned > fear. there is some fear here. > > anyway, i really appreciate the kindness in this message. i will heed > your advice and work on this in my prayer life. > > Be Love, > Berijoy > http://www.egyirba.net > `/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/`/ > -=-=- > ... > She who knows her heart mistrusts her eyes. ~ Chinese Proverb > -=-=- > ... > I walk the path knowing that how I perceive the journey literally > creates what's beyond the next bend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2005 Report Share Posted May 25, 2005 This is a great story Chris. Sometimes it's hard to know what to do since we don't want to make a mistake. At such times we have to go within and sort of read what our intuition says. Even so, sometimes if we do something awkward, it's still good to show our love and respect to our beloved teachers. anyway, you'll surely get another chance! Jai Maa!Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > wrote: Nirmalananda,You make a very good point here. Maa and Swamiji are as unpretentiousas the ground we walk on (also, if you think about it, as sublime).On retreat I have noticed swamiji is careful that his feet are alwayshidden, so that he's not seeming to invite veneration. At one retreatI attended though, Swamiji did something very special for me. It wasfinished at the homa, and for that time, I believe Maa instructed himto sit next to her with feet exposed so that I could properly offer myrespect and thanks for what he had done. It is something I stillregret that I was, in my ignorance, too uncertain and afraid to bowand touch his feet, even though every opportunity was given me to doso. I know they both understand, but I still regret.Jai Maa!Chris, Nirmalananda Saraswati<nirmalananda1008> wrote:> HI Berijoy,> > You raise an interesting point. > > "while i think a certain reverence and awe is in order, thesometimes fawning (or so it seems to me), almost falling over the guruthat i have read about seems exaggerated."> > It's a point well taken. I have seen Maa react to the exaggeratedfawning or falling over reverence to Her in a way that makes one thinkMaa feels the same way about it. Shree Maa, and Swami Ji also, seem tobe able to look into the heart of the person who offers reverence tothem, and know whether or not it's real or just for show. > > It seems to depend on where the person's heart is at. Also Maa andSwami are very humble. Every time I've seen people try to put agarland of flowers on Swami Ji, he immediately tries to take it off,or won't even allow it. Maa usually allows the garland, but takes itoff after a few minutes and offers it to one of the deities, thusgiving it to God. Sometimes when Maa would straiten up someone'salter, if there was a picture of Maa on the alter, along with otherdeities, etc., Maa would put Her picture towards the back of thealter, thus giving the deities the front. Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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