Guest guest Posted May 26, 2005 Report Share Posted May 26, 2005 Dear Kalia, as I see it, this verse is a further elaboration on the 'characteristics' of one who 'resides in the liberation beyond form' which began with verse 123. Lord Shiva wants us to understand that bliss and peace can be enjoyed everywhere, in any condition or circumstance, even the seemingly most destressing ones. Knowing all things and appearances as your own, what is there to fear or to be disturbed by? It must be a wonderful state to be in, and I personally am far from truly understanding what that means. Doesn't a liberated being have any experience of discomfort or unpleasantness? Or is it just that a liberated being does not mind (no pun intended)? I'm reminded of the Chandi, where it is said that 'on a lonely path in the forest, surrounded by a raging fire, encircled by robbers in a lonely place etc., people who remember the glory of the Goddess will be freed from calamity and anguish. It does not say that these circumstances will not present themselves, but it does say that peace and bliss will be restored: 'by my power lions, robbers and enemies flee to a distance from one who remembers this narration of my glory'. Does this mean that one established in Truth does not encounter enemies or robbers because he/she simply does not 'see' them as such? And that if you remember Truth/the glory of the Goddess, you 'tune into' that vision, so that the appearance that frightened or bothered you disappears? Do they actually disappear, or do you see them differently? Or is that the same? Anyway, I digress, still chewing on all this, with love, Henny One Reality, , Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote: > Dear friends, > > Our verse today: > > "The knowledgeable realize all wisdom as the union of the individual with all that is. He rejoices everywhere in eternal bliss and eternal peace." > > Seems a lot like verse 118. What are your views? > > Kalia > > > > Discover > Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2005 Report Share Posted May 26, 2005 Thanks for your reply. In relating this verse to 118, I was thinking that the knowledgeable one realizes that he is one with creation, his energy resides in every blade of grass, every object of creation whether moveable or unmoveable. Being in this realized state, bliss and peace can be enjoyed everywhere, in any condition or circumstance because a realized being only sees the "good" in All. A liberated person is in constant bliss, and is in communion with Divinity even when performing service to mankind, That Being is always in mantra. The Guru takes a body only through love for humanity, to prove to His/Her devotees that Divinity resides within in each and All. "I am not the body, Consciousness I am." In the book "Before Becoming This" - Conversations by Maa and Swamiji (by Steven Newmark) pg 75-76 : SN: "......What makes you the happiest? ShreeMaa : "I am always happy. When you always live with divinity, you are always happy. It makes me very happy when my children are happy." Maa and Swamiji are in constant bliss and to be in their aura one is can share in this state of peace and tranquility, to experience "heaven". A realized being can turn a potential robber into a saint. In another post I will share a story on Sarada Devi relating to this. Hope your questions were answered. Jai Maa!. Love Kalia henny_v_i <HvI (AT) SoftHome (DOT) net> wrote: Dear Kalia,as I see it, this verse is a further elaboration on the 'characteristics' of one who 'resides in the liberation beyond form' which began with verse 123. Lord Shiva wants us to understand that bliss and peace can be enjoyed everywhere, in any condition or circumstance, even the seemingly most destressing ones. Knowing all things and appearances as your own, what is there to fear or to be disturbed by?It must be a wonderful state to be in, and I personally am far from truly understanding what that means. Doesn't a liberated being have any experience of discomfort or unpleasantness? Or is it just that a liberated being does not mind (no pun intended)?I'm reminded of the Chandi, where it is said that 'on a lonely path in the forest, surrounded by a raging fire, encircled by robbers in a lonely place etc., people who remember the glory of the Goddess will be freed from calamity and anguish. It does not say that these circumstances will not present themselves, but it does say that peace and bliss will be restored: 'by my power lions, robbers and enemies flee to a distance from one who remembers this narration of my glory'. Does this mean that one established in Truth does not encounter enemies or robbers because he/she simply does not 'see' them as such?And that if you remember Truth/the glory of the Goddess, you 'tune into' that vision, so that the appearance that frightened or bothered you disappears? Do they actually disappear, or do you see them differently? Or is that the same?Anyway, I digress,still chewing on all this,with love,HennyOne Reality, , Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote:> Dear friends,> > Our verse today:> > "The knowledgeable realize all wisdom as the union of the individual with all that is. He rejoices everywhere in eternal bliss and eternal peace."> > Seems a lot like verse 118. What are your views?> > Kalia> > > > Discover > Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2005 Report Share Posted May 26, 2005 Henny, These questions, about pain and safety (misfortune) have been on my mind for quite a long time. Here is what I think. For an enlightened person pain is not the same as it is for us. There is an interesting phenomenon that occurs when you get samadhi. Your definitions of pleasure and pain get switched around. Discipline, for instance, experienced as pain for most, becomes imbued with pleasure, despite the difficulty, because of where it leads. That which decreases the bliss is experienced as painful, which can even include sex, which is generally understood to be the most pleasurable activity there is. Swamiji describes physical pain as "just another thought." Now, misfortune is more difficult. I don't believe any misfortune can befall any fully enlightened person without their permission. As I understand, if you are not fully enlightened, you still have some bondage to karma (even the jivanmukta abides by the law of karma, though), so there may be a need to experience something unfortunate. But in any case, it seems that complete faith and devotion to God will completely protect the devotee, though 'misfortune' may still happen. You may recall the story of the king and his minister. The king received a cut on his finger and threw his minister in the dungeon, because the minister was always saying "Trust in God. Everything will work out." Later (I'm really condensing the story!) when the king was hunting, he was captured by a tribe who needed a sacrifice for their worship, but let him go when they discovered the cut on his finger. Returning to his minister, the king said, "OK, you were right about the cut, but you've been stuck in this dank cell. What's so great about that?" and the minister replied, "Well, your Highness, had you not thrown me into this cell I would undoubtedly have been with you, and I do not have a cut on my finger." For me, since I do not have complete faith and devotion to God, I trust in the gurudeva for protection and guidance. I do believe the gurudeva not only provides spiritual guidance, but also guides the experience of karma for the disciple's highest good. Swamiji asked, "If you can't trust yourself, who can you trust?" Well, I trust the gurudeva. Jai Maa! Chris , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote: > Dear Kalia, > > as I see it, this verse is a further elaboration on the > 'characteristics' of one who 'resides in the liberation beyond form' > which began with verse 123. > Lord Shiva wants us to understand that bliss and peace can be enjoyed > everywhere, in any condition or circumstance, even the seemingly most > destressing ones. Knowing all things and appearances as your own, what > is there to fear or to be disturbed by? > It must be a wonderful state to be in, and I personally am far from > truly understanding what that means. Doesn't a liberated being have > any experience of discomfort or unpleasantness? Or is it just that a > liberated being does not mind (no pun intended)? > I'm reminded of the Chandi, where it is said that 'on a lonely path in > the forest, surrounded by a raging fire, encircled by robbers in a > lonely place etc., people who remember the glory of the Goddess will > be freed from calamity and anguish. It does not say that these > circumstances will not present themselves, but it does say that peace > and bliss will be restored: 'by my power lions, robbers and enemies > flee to a distance from one who remembers this narration of my glory'. > Does this mean that one established in Truth does not encounter > enemies or robbers because he/she simply does not 'see' them as such? > And that if you remember Truth/the glory of the Goddess, you 'tune > into' that vision, so that the appearance that frightened or bothered > you disappears? Do they actually disappear, or do you see them > differently? Or is that the same? > > Anyway, I digress, > > still chewing on all this, > > with love, > Henny > > > > > One Reality, , Kali Kali > <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote: > > Dear friends, > > > > Our verse today: > > > > "The knowledgeable realize all wisdom as the union of the individual > with all that is. He rejoices everywhere in eternal bliss and eternal > peace." > > > > Seems a lot like verse 118. What are your views? > > > > Kalia > > > > > > > > Discover > > Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check > it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 Dear Kalia, yes, I see the relation with verse 118 now. > Being in this realized state, bliss and peace can be enjoyed >everywhere, in any condition or circumstance because a realized being >only sees the "good" in All. this reminds me of a text by Thomas Merton (I love him very much because he was one of those seekers with an open mind, trying to bring together East and West), where God says: 'What was vile has become precious. What is now precious, was never vile. I have always known the vile as precious: what is vile I know not at all.' Now I understand what he meant. > Maa and Swamiji are in constant bliss and to be in their aura one is >can share in this state of peace and tranquility, to experience > >"heaven". it is difficult to believe that such a state is actually possible when you have never met anyone like that. But because of the increase in peace and tranquility in my life since coming here, I believe it. Which of course does not mean that I personally am not afraid or worried anymore. I am, and yesterday I was under an acute and severe attack by the forces of Worry about the Future, Fear of Coming to Harm and Pain of Being Left Behind. But turning within and 'tuning into' the transmission of Love and Peace coming through Shree Maa and Swamiji brought relief, with love, Henny , Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati@y. ...> wrote: > Dear Henny, > > Thanks for your reply. In relating this verse to 118, I was thinking that the knowledgeable one realizes that he is one with creation, his energy resides in every blade of grass, every object of creation whether moveable or unmoveable. Being in this realized state, bliss and peace can be enjoyed everywhere, in any condition or circumstance because a realized being only sees the "good" in All. A liberated person is in constant bliss, and is in communion with Divinity even when performing service to mankind, That Being is always in mantra. The Guru takes a body only through love for humanity, to prove to His/Her devotees that Divinity resides within in each and All. "I am not the body, Consciousness I am." > > In the book "Before Becoming This" - Conversations by Maa and Swamiji (by Steven Newmark) pg 75-76 : > > SN: "......What makes you the happiest? > > ShreeMaa : "I am always happy. When you always live with divinity, you are always happy. It makes me very happy when my children are happy." > > Maa and Swamiji are in constant bliss and to be in their aura one is can share in this state of peace and tranquility, to experience "heaven". > > A realized being can turn a potential robber into a saint. In another post I will share a story on Sarada Devi relating to this. > > Hope your questions were answered. > > Jai Maa!. > > Love > Kalia > > > > henny_v_i <HvI@S...> wrote: > Dear Kalia, > > as I see it, this verse is a further elaboration on the > 'characteristics' of one who 'resides in the liberation beyond form' > which began with verse 123. > Lord Shiva wants us to understand that bliss and peace can be enjoyed > everywhere, in any condition or circumstance, even the seemingly most > destressing ones. Knowing all things and appearances as your own, what > is there to fear or to be disturbed by? > It must be a wonderful state to be in, and I personally am far from > truly understanding what that means. Doesn't a liberated being have > any experience of discomfort or unpleasantness? Or is it just that a > liberated being does not mind (no pun intended)? > I'm reminded of the Chandi, where it is said that 'on a lonely path in > the forest, surrounded by a raging fire, encircled by robbers in a > lonely place etc., people who remember the glory of the Goddess will > be freed from calamity and anguish. It does not say that these > circumstances will not present themselves, but it does say that peace > and bliss will be restored: 'by my power lions, robbers and enemies > flee to a distance from one who remembers this narration of my glory'. > Does this mean that one established in Truth does not encounter > enemies or robbers because he/she simply does not 'see' them as such? > And that if you remember Truth/the glory of the Goddess, you 'tune > into' that vision, so that the appearance that frightened or bothered > you disappears? Do they actually disappear, or do you see them > differently? Or is that the same? > > Anyway, I digress, > > still chewing on all this, > > with love, > Henny > > > > > One Reality, , Kali Kali > <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote: > > Dear friends, > > > > Our verse today: > > > > "The knowledgeable realize all wisdom as the union of the individual > with all that is. He rejoices everywhere in eternal bliss and eternal > peace." > > > > Seems a lot like verse 118. What are your views? > > > > Kalia > > > > > > > > Discover > > Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check > it out! > Links > > > / > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > Mail > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 Chrisji, thank you for sharing your thoughts and for reminding me of the story of the cut finger. Trust is a great thing; may we learn that what we experience as misfortune is in fact necessary and beneficial to our growth. May we learn how to trust. The shrub being pruned may not like the experience, but it will yield more fruit because of it. So the next time it sees the gardener coming with his shear, it should be happy. >Swamiji describes physical pain as "just another thought." yes, I understand what he means, in theory. And in practice I have tried, when my legs where protesting violently against my folding them in the required asana, not to put the etiquette 'pain' on the experience and just feel the sensations coming and going. But at some point it becomes too much and I get the signal 'unfold us or you're never be able to walk again'. Now this is just another thought, of course, but one which I have not dared to ignore. Should I tell my thoughts to stop feeding me nonsense? Will I be able to walk again:) Are my thoughts about my legs trying to keep me away from experiencing bliss? But I love my legs, they have been good to me. Should I love expressing my devotion more than my legs? Thoughts, thoughts, thoughts...just thoughts. > For me, since I do not have complete faith and devotion to God, I > trust in the gurudeva for protection and guidance. I do believe the > gurudeva not only provides spiritual guidance, but also guides the > experience of karma for the disciple's highest good. Swamiji asked, > "If you can't trust yourself, who can you trust?" Well, I trust the > gurudeva. May we grow in faith and devotion to the Guru, the soul of Intelligence, who gives rise to the light by which Illumination is known, the One Self, with love, Henny , "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956@y. ...> wrote: > Henny, > > These questions, about pain and safety (misfortune) have been on my > mind for quite a long time. Here is what I think. > > For an enlightened person pain is not the same as it is for us. There > is an interesting phenomenon that occurs when you get samadhi. Your > definitions of pleasure and pain get switched around. Discipline, for > instance, experienced as pain for most, becomes imbued with pleasure, > despite the difficulty, because of where it leads. That which > decreases the bliss is experienced as painful, which can even include > sex, which is generally understood to be the most pleasurable activity > there is. >Swamiji describes physical pain as "just another thought." > > Now, misfortune is more difficult. I don't believe any misfortune can > befall any fully enlightened person without their permission. As I > understand, if you are not fully enlightened, you still have some > bondage to karma (even the jivanmukta abides by the law of karma, > though), so there may be a need to experience something unfortunate. > > But in any case, it seems that complete faith and devotion to God will > completely protect the devotee, though 'misfortune' may still happen. > You may recall the story of the king and his minister. The king > received a cut on his finger and threw his minister in the dungeon, > because the minister was always saying "Trust in God. Everything will > work out." Later (I'm really condensing the story!) when the king was > hunting, he was captured by a tribe who needed a sacrifice for their > worship, but let him go when they discovered the cut on his finger. > Returning to his minister, the king said, "OK, you were right about > the cut, but you've been stuck in this dank cell. What's so great > about that?" and the minister replied, "Well, your Highness, had you > not thrown me into this cell I would undoubtedly have been with you, > and I do not have a cut on my finger." > > For me, since I do not have complete faith and devotion to God, I > trust in the gurudeva for protection and guidance. I do believe the > gurudeva not only provides spiritual guidance, but also guides the > experience of karma for the disciple's highest good. Swamiji asked, > "If you can't trust yourself, who can you trust?" Well, I trust the > gurudeva. > > Jai Maa! > Chris > > > > > , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote: > > Dear Kalia, > > > > as I see it, this verse is a further elaboration on the > > 'characteristics' of one who 'resides in the liberation beyond form' > > which began with verse 123. > > Lord Shiva wants us to understand that bliss and peace can be enjoyed > > everywhere, in any condition or circumstance, even the seemingly most > > destressing ones. Knowing all things and appearances as your own, what > > is there to fear or to be disturbed by? > > It must be a wonderful state to be in, and I personally am far from > > truly understanding what that means. Doesn't a liberated being have > > any experience of discomfort or unpleasantness? Or is it just that a > > liberated being does not mind (no pun intended)? > > I'm reminded of the Chandi, where it is said that 'on a lonely path in > > the forest, surrounded by a raging fire, encircled by robbers in a > > lonely place etc., people who remember the glory of the Goddess will > > be freed from calamity and anguish. It does not say that these > > circumstances will not present themselves, but it does say that peace > > and bliss will be restored: 'by my power lions, robbers and enemies > > flee to a distance from one who remembers this narration of my glory'. > > Does this mean that one established in Truth does not encounter > > enemies or robbers because he/she simply does not 'see' them as such? > > And that if you remember Truth/the glory of the Goddess, you 'tune > > into' that vision, so that the appearance that frightened or bothered > > you disappears? Do they actually disappear, or do you see them > > differently? Or is that the same? > > > > Anyway, I digress, > > > > still chewing on all this, > > > > with love, > > Henny > > > > > > > > > > One Reality, , Kali Kali > > <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote: > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > Our verse today: > > > > > > "The knowledgeable realize all wisdom as the union of the individual > > with all that is. He rejoices everywhere in eternal bliss and eternal > > peace." > > > > > > Seems a lot like verse 118. What are your views? > > > > > > Kalia > > > > > > > > > > > > Discover > > > Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check > > it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 In a message dated 5/27/05 10:46:39 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, kaliananda_saraswati writes: There is a famous proverb in Sanskrit that says “Pain is our teaching, and pleasure is our examination.†If we can remember God when we’re feeling pleasure, we have really conquered our attachments to this material world. Om Namah Sivaya Kanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 To add to Chris' post, a few para. on pain from pgs 192-193 of “Before Becoming This – Conversations with Shree Maa and Swami Satyananda Saraswati” : QUOTE Question: “…….. What is the purpose of suffering? Swamiji: The purpose of suffering is to teach us how to remember God. When we feel pain, most people will say, “Oh God, save me from pain. I don’t want this.” So we immediately increase our relationship with God. If we can experience pain as a tool to stop thinking about our little, personal afflictions and focus instead on God, we can transcend the pain and see it as another thought of the mind. If we can absorb our mind in God, we can train ourselves to be ready for God at the time of going. Question: If you remember God all the time, would you feel less suffering because there would be no purpose for having pain? Swamiji: Yes. You might have the same sensations, but the experience will be, “I’m not suffering. I am experiencing the fact that the body feels pain, but I don’t suffer because I am experiencing the love of God. The Body has pain, but I’m not the body. I am the instrument of God. There is a famous proverb in Sanskrit that says “Pain is our teaching, and pleasure is our examination.” If we can remember God when we’re feeling pleasure, we have really conquered our attachments to this material world. End of QUOTE. Kalia Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > wrote: Henny,These questions, about pain and safety (misfortune) have been on mymind for quite a long time. Here is what I think.For an enlightened person pain is not the same as it is for us. Thereis an interesting phenomenon that occurs when you get samadhi. Yourdefinitions of pleasure and pain get switched around. Discipline, forinstance, experienced as pain for most, becomes imbued with pleasure,despite the difficulty, because of where it leads. That whichdecreases the bliss is experienced as painful, which can even includesex, which is generally understood to be the most pleasurable activitythere is. Swamiji describes physical pain as "just another thought."Now, misfortune is more difficult. I don't believe any misfortune canbefall any fully enlightened person without their permission. As Iunderstand, if you are not fully enlightened, you still have somebondage to karma (even the jivanmukta abides by the law of karma,though), so there may be a need to experience something unfortunate.But in any case, it seems that complete faith and devotion to God willcompletely protect the devotee, though 'misfortune' may still happen.You may recall the story of the king and his minister. The kingreceived a cut on his finger and threw his minister in the dungeon,because the minister was always saying "Trust in God. Everything willwork out." Later (I'm really condensing the story!) when the king washunting, he was captured by a tribe who needed a sacrifice for theirworship, but let him go when they discovered the cut on his finger.Returning to his minister, the king said, "OK, you were right aboutthe cut, but you've been stuck in this dank cell. What's so greatabout that?" and the minister replied, "Well, your Highness, had younot thrown me into this cell I would undoubtedly have been with you,and I do not have a cut on my finger."For me, since I do not have complete faith and devotion to God, Itrust in the gurudeva for protection and guidance. I do believe thegurudeva not only provides spiritual guidance, but also guides theexperience of karma for the disciple's highest good. Swamiji asked,"If you can't trust yourself, who can you trust?" Well, I trust thegurudeva.Jai Maa!Chris, "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote:> Dear Kalia,> > as I see it, this verse is a further elaboration on the > 'characteristics' of one who 'resides in the liberation beyond form' > which began with verse 123. > Lord Shiva wants us to understand that bliss and peace can be enjoyed > everywhere, in any condition or circumstance, even the seemingly most > destressing ones. Knowing all things and appearances as your own, what > is there to fear or to be disturbed by?> It must be a wonderful state to be in, and I personally am far from > truly understanding what that means. Doesn't a liberated being have > any experience of discomfort or unpleasantness? Or is it just that a > liberated being does not mind (no pun intended)?> I'm reminded of the Chandi, where it is said that 'on a lonely path in > the forest, surrounded by a raging fire, encircled by robbers in a > lonely place etc., people who remember the glory of the Goddess will > be freed from calamity and anguish. It does not say that these > circumstances will not present themselves, but it does say that peace > and bliss will be restored: 'by my power lions, robbers and enemies > flee to a distance from one who remembers this narration of my glory'. > Does this mean that one established in Truth does not encounter > enemies or robbers because he/she simply does not 'see' them as such?> And that if you remember Truth/the glory of the Goddess, you 'tune > into' that vision, so that the appearance that frightened or bothered > you disappears? Do they actually disappear, or do you see them > differently? Or is that the same?> > Anyway, I digress,> > still chewing on all this,> > with love,> Henny> > > > > One Reality, --- In , Kali Kali > <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote:> > Dear friends,> > > > Our verse today:> > > > "The knowledgeable realize all wisdom as the union of the individual > with all that is. He rejoices everywhere in eternal bliss and eternal > peace."> > > > Seems a lot like verse 118. What are your views?> > > > Kalia> > > > > > > > Discover > > Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check > it out!Do You ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 Dear Kalia, thank you for taking the time to post this, it helps. I read the book, but had forgotten about this passage. In fact, I'm only just beginning to realize the riches we have been given with Swamiji and Shree Maa's books, which can only be appreciated by going back to them again and again. with love, Henny , Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati@y. ...> wrote: > Dear Chris and Henny, > > To add to Chris' post, a few para. on pain from pgs 192-193 of #8220;Before Becoming This #8211; Conversations with Shree Maa and Swami Satyananda Saraswati#8221; : > > QUOTE > > Question: #8220;#8230;#8230;.. What is the purpose of suffering? > > Swamiji: The purpose of suffering is to teach us how to remember God. When we feel pain, most people will say, #8220;Oh God, save me from pain. I don#8217;t want this.#8221; So we immediately increase our relationship with God. If we can experience pain as a tool to stop thinking about our little, personal afflictions and focus instead on God, we can transcend the pain and see it as another thought of the mind. If we can absorb our mind in God, we can train ourselves to be ready for God at the time of going. > > Question: If you remember God all the time, would you feel less suffering because there would be no purpose for having pain? > > Swamiji: Yes. You might have the same sensations, but the experience will be, #8220;I#8217;m not suffering. I am experiencing the fact that the body feels pain, but I don#8217;t suffer because I am experiencing the love of God. The Body has pain, but I#8217;m not the body. I am the instrument of God. > > There is a famous proverb in Sanskrit that says #8220;Pain is our teaching, and pleasure is our examination.#8221; If we can remember God when we#8217;re feeling pleasure, we have really conquered our attachments to this material world. > > End of QUOTE. > > Kalia > > > > Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956> wrote: > Henny, > > These questions, about pain and safety (misfortune) have been on my > mind for quite a long time. Here is what I think. > > For an enlightened person pain is not the same as it is for us. There > is an interesting phenomenon that occurs when you get samadhi. Your > definitions of pleasure and pain get switched around. Discipline, for > instance, experienced as pain for most, becomes imbued with pleasure, > despite the difficulty, because of where it leads. That which > decreases the bliss is experienced as painful, which can even include > sex, which is generally understood to be the most pleasurable activity > there is. Swamiji describes physical pain as "just another thought." > > Now, misfortune is more difficult. I don't believe any misfortune can > befall any fully enlightened person without their permission. As I > understand, if you are not fully enlightened, you still have some > bondage to karma (even the jivanmukta abides by the law of karma, > though), so there may be a need to experience something unfortunate. > > But in any case, it seems that complete faith and devotion to God will > completely protect the devotee, though 'misfortune' may still happen. > You may recall the story of the king and his minister. The king > received a cut on his finger and threw his minister in the dungeon, > because the minister was always saying "Trust in God. Everything will > work out." Later (I'm really condensing the story!) when the king was > hunting, he was captured by a tribe who needed a sacrifice for their > worship, but let him go when they discovered the cut on his finger. > Returning to his minister, the king said, "OK, you were right about > the cut, but you've been stuck in this dank cell. What's so great > about that?" and the minister replied, "Well, your Highness, had you > not thrown me into this cell I would undoubtedly have been with you, > and I do not have a cut on my finger." > > For me, since I do not have complete faith and devotion to God, I > trust in the gurudeva for protection and guidance. I do believe the > gurudeva not only provides spiritual guidance, but also guides the > experience of karma for the disciple's highest good. Swamiji asked, > "If you can't trust yourself, who can you trust?" Well, I trust the > gurudeva. > > Jai Maa! > Chris > > > > > , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote: > > Dear Kalia, > > > > as I see it, this verse is a further elaboration on the > > 'characteristics' of one who 'resides in the liberation beyond form' > > which began with verse 123. > > Lord Shiva wants us to understand that bliss and peace can be enjoyed > > everywhere, in any condition or circumstance, even the seemingly most > > destressing ones. Knowing all things and appearances as your own, what > > is there to fear or to be disturbed by? > > It must be a wonderful state to be in, and I personally am far from > > truly understanding what that means. Doesn't a liberated being have > > any experience of discomfort or unpleasantness? Or is it just that a > > liberated being does not mind (no pun intended)? > > I'm reminded of the Chandi, where it is said that 'on a lonely path in > > the forest, surrounded by a raging fire, encircled by robbers in a > > lonely place etc., people who remember the glory of the Goddess will > > be freed from calamity and anguish. It does not say that these > > circumstances will not present themselves, but it does say that peace > > and bliss will be restored: 'by my power lions, robbers and enemies > > flee to a distance from one who remembers this narration of my glory'. > > Does this mean that one established in Truth does not encounter > > enemies or robbers because he/she simply does not 'see' them as such? > > And that if you remember Truth/the glory of the Goddess, you 'tune > > into' that vision, so that the appearance that frightened or bothered > > you disappears? Do they actually disappear, or do you see them > > differently? Or is that the same? > > > > Anyway, I digress, > > > > still chewing on all this, > > > > with love, > > Henny > > > > > > > > > > One Reality, , Kali Kali > > <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote: > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > Our verse today: > > > > > > "The knowledgeable realize all wisdom as the union of the individual > > with all that is. He rejoices everywhere in eternal bliss and eternal > > peace." > > > > > > Seems a lot like verse 118. What are your views? > > > > > > Kalia > > > > > > > > > > > > Discover > > > Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check > > it out! > Links > > > / > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote: > Dear Kalia, > > yes, I see the relation with verse 118 now. Remember verse 100? And remember what Swamiji said was "the intrinsic nature of all that is knowable? Love. I am, and yesterday I was under an acute and severe > attack by the forces of Worry about the Future, Fear of Coming to Harm > and Pain of Being Left Behind. But turning within and 'tuning into' > the transmission of Love and Peace coming through Shree Maa and > Swamiji brought relief, Sometimes it can be very difficult to be separated in space from the gurus, especially when problems rise up, or when ego wants something from them they will not provide. It is easy to lose faith and get swallowed-up. I am so glad you are able to go within and find their presence there for your faith and comfort. Jai Maa! Chris > > with love, > Henny > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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