Guest guest Posted June 4, 2005 Report Share Posted June 4, 2005 Verse 135 says - "It takes away the fear of time and death, and destroys all adversity. It takes away the fear of celestial beings, demonic beings, various disembodied spirits, thieves, and tigers." How do you think the GG is able to destroy these emotions or fears? Please share your thoughts. Love, KaliaDo You ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2005 Report Share Posted June 4, 2005 Dear Kalia, my thoughts: by reciting the mantras of the GG, you take the mind away from these concerns and attention is focused on the Guru, who 'gives rise to the wisdom of one's own soul'. The higher destroys the lower, Love replaces fear. may it be so, with love, Henny , Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati@y. ...> wrote: > Dear Friends, > > Verse 135 says - > > "It takes away the fear of time and death, and destroys all adversity. It takes away the fear of celestial beings, demonic beings, various disembodied spirits, thieves, and tigers." > > How do you think the GG is able to destroy these emotions or fears? Please share your thoughts. > > Love, > Kalia > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2005 Report Share Posted June 4, 2005 Thanks for your response. Yes, may we become so in love that there is no fear. This and the verse which follows for today, seems linked to "May my mind be filled with that firm determination of Shiva, the Consciousness of Infinite Goodness." Jai Shiva. henny_v_i <HvI (AT) SoftHome (DOT) net> wrote: Dear Kalia,my thoughts: by reciting the mantras of the GG, you take the mind away from these concerns and attention is focused on the Guru, who 'gives rise to the wisdom of one's own soul'. The higher destroys the lower, Love replaces fear.may it be so,with love,Henny, Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote:> Dear Friends,> > Verse 135 says -> > "It takes away the fear of time and death, and destroys all adversity. It takes away the fear of celestial beings, demonic beings, various disembodied spirits, thieves, and tigers."> > How do you think the GG is able to destroy these emotions or fears? Please share your thoughts.> > Love,> Kalia> > > > > Do You ?Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2005 Report Share Posted June 4, 2005 Kalia, My faith in the loving protection and strength of the guru removes the fear of such things. The Guru Gita represents the perfection of that protection, the perfection of the prasad of the guru. Shree Maa tells the story of the aghori sadhu doing sava meditation (meditation seated on a corpse), who gets eaten by a tiger, while a devotee of God is protected. Whenever I hear that story I always think, "Where was that guy's guru when the tiger came?" Jai Maa! Chris , Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote: > Dear Friends, > > Verse 135 says - > > "It takes away the fear of time and death, and destroys all adversity. It takes away the fear of celestial beings, demonic beings, various disembodied spirits, thieves, and tigers." > > How do you think the GG is able to destroy these emotions or fears? Please share your thoughts. > > Love, > Kalia > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2005 Report Share Posted June 4, 2005 Chris said : > Shree Maa tells the story of the aghori sadhu doing sava meditation > (meditation seated on a corpse), who gets eaten by a tiger, while a > devotee of God is protected. Whenever I hear that story I always > think, "Where was that guy's guru when the tiger came?" > Hi Chris, You raised a VERY interesting question - what does the Guru's protection mean ? (And here referring to the physical Guru not the universal Guru - just to make things clear) Does it mean that the Guru saves us from each and every calamity that can befall us OR Does the Guru show us by example how to deal/face that calamity ? I think to a certain extent - there IS an amount of physical and emotional protection , just as a mother shelters her child. But I believe beyond that the Guru will show us the way to accept life with equanimity. Atleast those are my thoughts. Thank you for raising such an interesting topic. I would like to know what the others think too. Jai Maa Nanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2005 Report Share Posted June 4, 2005 Nanda, Yes. I believe this too. Protection means protection, after all, but there is also instruction, and there is also providence. Sometimes we must undergo pain in order to learn. Then there is providence, or karma. As Swamiji has said, when a disciple is accepted the gurudeva takes on some of the burden of the disciples karma, so the gurudeva is intimately aware of the disciples karma as it is unfolding (at least, I would think, the `big' things). When a disciple surrenders to the gurudeva, she does so for one reason, to achieve liberation. The gurudeva accepts the disciple for the same reason, to bring her as near the goal of life as she can. In the pursuit of this goal providence can sometimes get in the way of the sadhana. Part of the guru's duty is to, as much as possible, keep that from happening. You remember the story of the King and the Minister? The King was destined to die that day, but got off with only a cut on his finger because of his Minister's faith. It is so with the gurudeva. According to Pundit Tigunait, Swami Rama once asked him to perform a certain practice before returning to the States, and this practice saved his life a few days later on the drive back to the ashram. Swami Rama also wrote of his own karma which required him to die as a young man, but which, by the grace of his Master, became a fall from a cliff leading to injury, rather than death (though he was not altogether spared the experience). Swami Shivananda once told a certain disciple not to go climbing mountains. A few days later, this same disciple tripped while climbing a mountain, and died. Shivananda said something along the lines of, "Well, I did warn him not climb mountains. He chose not to listen." A guru is in the business of fulfilling providence, not thwarting it. It seems some measure of the debt must always be paid, by someone. In the moderating of providence by the guru, I think the measure lies in the bond that lies between guru and disciple, the sadhana. What impact will this event have on the sadhana if it comes to pass? This consideration leads to other questions, such as, "If I'm not doing my sadhana, is there any reason to mitigate my karmas?" If one is dedicated, I believe the gurudeva will completely (as far as possible and necessary) protect the disciple. While for most people pain is a goad to seek refuge in God, for one absorbed in sadhana, it is just another distraction. The guru is a banyan tree, where the disciple can seek shelter from the worst of the rain and sun. Jai Maa! Chris Nanda said: > > I think to a certain extent - there IS an amount of physical and > emotional protection , just as a mother shelters her child. But I > believe beyond that the Guru will show us the way to accept life > with equanimity. > Jai Maa > Nanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2005 Report Share Posted June 4, 2005 My take on your questions - "Does it mean that the Guru saves us from each and every calamity that can befall us ORDoes the Guru show us by example how to deal/face that calamity?" Yes there is a certain amount of protection for us from the Guru but there is also Kripa (do and get). The Guru shows us by example how to deal/face any calamity that might befall us and knows when to intervene. "Where was that guy's guru when the tiger came?" This might have been an element of fear that remained with the sadhu which needed to be corrected. Chris can you please share a bit more of the story if possible so as to get a better understandng. Pranams. KaliaNanda <chandimaakijai > wrote: Chris said : > Shree Maa tells the story of the aghori sadhu doing sava meditation> (meditation seated on a corpse), who gets eaten by a tiger, while a> devotee of God is protected. Whenever I hear that story I always> think, "Where was that guy's guru when the tiger came?"> Hi Chris,You raised a VERY interesting question - what does the Guru's protection mean ? (And here referring to the physical Guru not the universal Guru - just to make things clear) Does it mean that the Guru saves us from each and every calamity that can befall us ORDoes the Guru show us by example how to deal/face that calamity ?I think to a certain extent - there IS an amount of physical and emotional protection , just as a mother shelters her child. But I believe beyond that the Guru will show us the way to accept life with equanimity.Atleast those are my thoughts. Thank you for raising such an interesting topic. I would like to know what the others think too.Jai MaaNandaDo You ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2005 Report Share Posted June 5, 2005 Dear Nanda and Chrisji, thank you for raising this point, which is very interesting as I am still trying to understand the relationship between the physical guru and the disciple (which is somewhat of a mystery to me). But one thing seems important: it is not the 'things out there' which the disciple needs protection against, but his/her own ignorant interpretations of 'things out there' which give rise to fear. So I can imagine the guru might, if the need arises, even arrange for the disciple to have to overcome this ignorance by putting him/her in a 'fearful' situation. And the disciple, until he/she had learned the lesson, would not think the guru was protective at all, with love, Henny , "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956> wrote: > Nanda, > > Yes. I believe this too. Protection means protection, after all, but > there is also instruction, and there is also providence. > > Sometimes we must undergo pain in order to learn. > > Then there is providence, or karma. As Swamiji has said, when a > disciple is accepted the gurudeva takes on some of the burden of the > disciples karma, so the gurudeva is intimately aware of the disciples > karma as it is unfolding (at least, I would think, the `big' things) .. > > When a disciple surrenders to the gurudeva, she does so for one > reason, to achieve liberation. The gurudeva accepts the disciple for > the same reason, to bring her as near the goal of life as she can. In > the pursuit of this goal providence can sometimes get in the way of > the sadhana. Part of the guru's duty is to, as much as possible, keep > that from happening. > > You remember the story of the King and the Minister? The King was > destined to die that day, but got off with only a cut on his finger > because of his Minister's faith. It is so with the gurudeva. > > According to Pundit Tigunait, Swami Rama once asked him to perform a > certain practice before returning to the States, and this practice > saved his life a few days later on the drive back to the ashram. Swami > Rama also wrote of his own karma which required him to die as a young > man, but which, by the grace of his Master, became a fall from a cliff > leading to injury, rather than death (though he was not altogether > spared the experience). Swami Shivananda once told a certain disciple > not to go climbing mountains. A few days later, this same disciple > tripped while climbing a mountain, and died. Shivananda said something > along the lines of, "Well, I did warn him not climb mountains. He > chose not to listen." > > A guru is in the business of fulfilling providence, not thwarting it. > It seems some measure of the debt must always be paid, by someone. > > In the moderating of providence by the guru, I think the measure lies > in the bond that lies between guru and disciple, the sadhana. What > impact will this event have on the sadhana if it comes to pass? This > consideration leads to other questions, such as, "If I'm not doing my > sadhana, is there any reason to mitigate my karmas?" > > If one is dedicated, I believe the gurudeva will completely (as far as > possible and necessary) protect the disciple. While for most people > pain is a goad to seek refuge in God, for one absorbed in sadhana, it > is just another distraction. > > The guru is a banyan tree, where the disciple can seek shelter from > the worst of the rain and sun. > > Jai Maa! > Chris > > > > Nanda said: > > > > I think to a certain extent - there IS an amount of physical and > > emotional protection , just as a mother shelters her child. But I > > believe beyond that the Guru will show us the way to accept life > > with equanimity. > > > Jai Maa > > Nanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2005 Report Share Posted June 5, 2005 Dear Henny, Beautiful perspective. Like you said, " the disciple, until he/she had learned the lesson, would not think the guru was protective at all" It takes one to know one. However, I will ask Swamiji on the meaning of the Guru's protection and if He can shed any light on it. Jai Guru Nanda , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote: > Dear Nanda and Chrisji, > > thank you for raising this point, which is very interesting as I am > still trying to understand the relationship between the physical guru > and the disciple (which is somewhat of a mystery to me). But one thing > seems important: it is not the 'things out there' which the disciple > needs protection against, but his/her own ignorant interpretations of > 'things out there' which give rise to fear. So I can imagine the guru > might, if the need arises, even arrange for the disciple to have to > overcome this ignorance by putting him/her in a 'fearful' situation. > And the disciple, until he/she had learned the lesson, would not think > the guru was protective at all, > > with love, > Henny > > > , "Chris Kirner" > <chriskirner1956> wrote: > > Nanda, > > > > Yes. I believe this too. Protection means protection, after all, but > > there is also instruction, and there is also providence. > > > > Sometimes we must undergo pain in order to learn. > > > > Then there is providence, or karma. As Swamiji has said, when a > > disciple is accepted the gurudeva takes on some of the burden of the > > disciples karma, so the gurudeva is intimately aware of the > disciples > > karma as it is unfolding (at least, I would think, the `big' things) > . > > > > When a disciple surrenders to the gurudeva, she does so for one > > reason, to achieve liberation. The gurudeva accepts the disciple for > > the same reason, to bring her as near the goal of life as she can. > In > > the pursuit of this goal providence can sometimes get in the way of > > the sadhana. Part of the guru's duty is to, as much as possible, > keep > > that from happening. > > > > You remember the story of the King and the Minister? The King was > > destined to die that day, but got off with only a cut on his finger > > because of his Minister's faith. It is so with the gurudeva. > > > > According to Pundit Tigunait, Swami Rama once asked him to perform a > > certain practice before returning to the States, and this practice > > saved his life a few days later on the drive back to the ashram. > Swami > > Rama also wrote of his own karma which required him to die as a > young > > man, but which, by the grace of his Master, became a fall from a > cliff > > leading to injury, rather than death (though he was not altogether > > spared the experience). Swami Shivananda once told a certain > disciple > > not to go climbing mountains. A few days later, this same disciple > > tripped while climbing a mountain, and died. Shivananda said > something > > along the lines of, "Well, I did warn him not climb mountains. He > > chose not to listen." > > > > A guru is in the business of fulfilling providence, not thwarting > it. > > It seems some measure of the debt must always be paid, by someone. > > > > In the moderating of providence by the guru, I think the measure > lies > > in the bond that lies between guru and disciple, the sadhana. What > > impact will this event have on the sadhana if it comes to pass? This > > consideration leads to other questions, such as, "If I'm not doing > my > > sadhana, is there any reason to mitigate my karmas?" > > > > If one is dedicated, I believe the gurudeva will completely (as far > as > > possible and necessary) protect the disciple. While for most people > > pain is a goad to seek refuge in God, for one absorbed in sadhana, > it > > is just another distraction. > > > > The guru is a banyan tree, where the disciple can seek shelter from > > the worst of the rain and sun. > > > > Jai Maa! > > Chris > > > > > > > > Nanda said: > > > > > > I think to a certain extent - there IS an amount of physical and > > > emotional protection , just as a mother shelters her child. But I > > > believe beyond that the Guru will show us the way to accept life > > > with equanimity. > > > > > Jai Maa > > > Nanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2005 Report Share Posted June 5, 2005 Kalia, That's really all there is. The idea of the story, I think, is to show that the simple devotee of God is always protected, while even the most disciplined sadhus may not be (the corpse meditation is a pretty austere practice). But I always feel sorry for the poor sadhu, who should, I feel, have been protected by his gurudeva. Jai Maa! Chris , Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote: > Dear Nanda and Chris, > > My take on your questions - > > "Does it mean that the Guru saves us from each and every calamity that can befall us OR > > Does the Guru show us by example how to deal/face that calamity?" > > Yes there is a certain amount of protection for us from the Guru but there is also Kripa (do and get). The Guru shows us by example how to deal/face any calamity that might befall us and knows when to intervene. > > "Where was that guy's guru when the tiger came?" > > This might have been an element of fear that remained with the sadhu which needed to be corrected. > > Chris can you please share a bit more of the story if possible so as to get a better understandng. > > Pranams. > > Kalia > > > Nanda <chandimaakijai> wrote: > Chris said : > > Shree Maa tells the story of the aghori sadhu doing sava meditation > > (meditation seated on a corpse), who gets eaten by a tiger, while a > > devotee of God is protected. Whenever I hear that story I always > > think, "Where was that guy's guru when the tiger came?" > > > > Hi Chris, > You raised a VERY interesting question - what does the Guru's > protection mean ? (And here referring to the physical Guru not the > universal Guru - just to make things clear) > > Does it mean that the Guru saves us from each and every calamity > that can befall us > > OR > > Does the Guru show us by example how to deal/face that calamity ? > > I think to a certain extent - there IS an amount of physical and > emotional protection , just as a mother shelters her child. But I > believe beyond that the Guru will show us the way to accept life > with equanimity. > > Atleast those are my thoughts. Thank you for raising such an > interesting topic. I would like to know what the others think too. > > Jai Maa > Nanda > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2005 Report Share Posted June 5, 2005 Henny, The relationship between guru and disciple, is, I think, one of the most beautiful, most sublime, relationships there is. It is a lot like the relationship between mother and child. Like a little baby, the disciple cannot see all that mother does to nurture and protect and guide. It is only when she grows to have her own child that she fully understands the true depth and commitment of the relationship. But while a mother deals with the objects and relationships of the physical world, looking toward the ultimate goal of producing a healthy and happy adult, the gurudeva's influence is with all of the subtle, unseen aspects of life, the highest aspirations life affords. We truely cannot understand all the guru does until, by her grace, we become like her. Jai Gurudeva! Jai Maa! Chris , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote: > Dear Nanda and Chrisji, > > thank you for raising this point, which is very interesting as I am > still trying to understand the relationship between the physical guru > and the disciple (which is somewhat of a mystery to me). But one thing > seems important: it is not the 'things out there' which the disciple > needs protection against, but his/her own ignorant interpretations of > 'things out there' which give rise to fear. So I can imagine the guru > might, if the need arises, even arrange for the disciple to have to > overcome this ignorance by putting him/her in a 'fearful' situation. > And the disciple, until he/she had learned the lesson, would not think > the guru was protective at all, > > with love, > Henny > > > , "Chris Kirner" > <chriskirner1956> wrote: > > Nanda, > > > > Yes. I believe this too. Protection means protection, after all, but > > there is also instruction, and there is also providence. > > > > Sometimes we must undergo pain in order to learn. > > > > Then there is providence, or karma. As Swamiji has said, when a > > disciple is accepted the gurudeva takes on some of the burden of the > > disciples karma, so the gurudeva is intimately aware of the > disciples > > karma as it is unfolding (at least, I would think, the `big' things) > . > > > > When a disciple surrenders to the gurudeva, she does so for one > > reason, to achieve liberation. The gurudeva accepts the disciple for > > the same reason, to bring her as near the goal of life as she can. > In > > the pursuit of this goal providence can sometimes get in the way of > > the sadhana. Part of the guru's duty is to, as much as possible, > keep > > that from happening. > > > > You remember the story of the King and the Minister? The King was > > destined to die that day, but got off with only a cut on his finger > > because of his Minister's faith. It is so with the gurudeva. > > > > According to Pundit Tigunait, Swami Rama once asked him to perform a > > certain practice before returning to the States, and this practice > > saved his life a few days later on the drive back to the ashram. > Swami > > Rama also wrote of his own karma which required him to die as a > young > > man, but which, by the grace of his Master, became a fall from a > cliff > > leading to injury, rather than death (though he was not altogether > > spared the experience). Swami Shivananda once told a certain > disciple > > not to go climbing mountains. A few days later, this same disciple > > tripped while climbing a mountain, and died. Shivananda said > something > > along the lines of, "Well, I did warn him not climb mountains. He > > chose not to listen." > > > > A guru is in the business of fulfilling providence, not thwarting > it. > > It seems some measure of the debt must always be paid, by someone. > > > > In the moderating of providence by the guru, I think the measure > lies > > in the bond that lies between guru and disciple, the sadhana. What > > impact will this event have on the sadhana if it comes to pass? This > > consideration leads to other questions, such as, "If I'm not doing > my > > sadhana, is there any reason to mitigate my karmas?" > > > > If one is dedicated, I believe the gurudeva will completely (as far > as > > possible and necessary) protect the disciple. While for most people > > pain is a goad to seek refuge in God, for one absorbed in sadhana, > it > > is just another distraction. > > > > The guru is a banyan tree, where the disciple can seek shelter from > > the worst of the rain and sun. > > > > Jai Maa! > > Chris > > > > > > > > Nanda said: > > > > > > I think to a certain extent - there IS an amount of physical and > > > emotional protection , just as a mother shelters her child. But I > > > believe beyond that the Guru will show us the way to accept life > > > with equanimity. > > > > > Jai Maa > > > Nanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2005 Report Share Posted June 5, 2005 Kalia Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956 > wrote: Kalia,That's really all there is. The idea of the story, I think, is to showthat the simple devotee of God is always protected, while even themost disciplined sadhus may not be (the corpse meditation is a prettyaustere practice). But I always feel sorry for the poor sadhu, whoshould, I feel, have been protected by his gurudeva.Jai Maa!Chris, Kali Kali<kaliananda_saraswati> wrote:> Dear Nanda and Chris,> > My take on your questions -> > "Does it mean that the Guru saves us from each and every calamitythat can befall us OR> > Does the Guru show us by example how to deal/face that calamity?"> > Yes there is a certain amount of protection for us from the Guru butthere is also Kripa (do and get). The Guru shows us by example how todeal/face any calamity that might befall us and knows when to intervene. > > "Where was that guy's guru when the tiger came?"> > This might have been an element of fear that remained with the sadhuwhich needed to be corrected. > > Chris can you please share a bit more of the story if possible so asto get a better understandng. > > Pranams.> > Kalia> > > Nanda <chandimaakijai> wrote:> Chris said : > > Shree Maa tells the story of the aghori sadhu doing sava meditation> > (meditation seated on a corpse), who gets eaten by a tiger, while a> > devotee of God is protected. Whenever I hear that story I always> > think, "Where was that guy's guru when the tiger came?"> > > > Hi Chris,> You raised a VERY interesting question - what does the Guru's > protection mean ? (And here referring to the physical Guru not the > universal Guru - just to make things clear) > > Does it mean that the Guru saves us from each and every calamity > that can befall us > > OR> > Does the Guru show us by example how to deal/face that calamity ?> > I think to a certain extent - there IS an amount of physical and > emotional protection , just as a mother shelters her child. But I > believe beyond that the Guru will show us the way to accept life > with equanimity.> > Atleast those are my thoughts. Thank you for raising such an > interesting topic. I would like to know what the others think too.> > Jai Maa> Nanda> > > > > > > > > > > Links> > > /> > To from this group, send an email to:> > > Your use of Groups is subject to the > > > > > > Do You ?Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 Chrisji, that is beautiful. Blessed is the true disciple, with love, Henny , "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956> wrote: > Henny, > > The relationship between guru and disciple, is, I think, one of the > most beautiful, most sublime, relationships there is. It is a lot like > the relationship between mother and child. > > Like a little baby, the disciple cannot see all that mother does to > nurture and protect and guide. It is only when she grows to have her > own child that she fully understands the true depth and commitment of > the relationship. > > But while a mother deals with the objects and relationships of the > physical world, looking toward the ultimate goal of producing a > healthy and happy adult, the gurudeva's influence is with all of the > subtle, unseen aspects of life, the highest aspirations life affords. > We truely cannot understand all the guru does until, by her grace, we > become like her. > > Jai Gurudeva! > Jai Maa! > Chris > > > > , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote: > > Dear Nanda and Chrisji, > > > > thank you for raising this point, which is very interesting as I am > > still trying to understand the relationship between the physical guru > > and the disciple (which is somewhat of a mystery to me). But one thing > > seems important: it is not the 'things out there' which the disciple > > needs protection against, but his/her own ignorant interpretations of > > 'things out there' which give rise to fear. So I can imagine the guru > > might, if the need arises, even arrange for the disciple to have to > > overcome this ignorance by putting him/her in a 'fearful' situation. > > And the disciple, until he/she had learned the lesson, would not think > > the guru was protective at all, > > > > with love, > > Henny > > > > > > , "Chris Kirner" > > <chriskirner1956> wrote: > > > Nanda, > > > > > > Yes. I believe this too. Protection means protection, after all, but > > > there is also instruction, and there is also providence. > > > > > > Sometimes we must undergo pain in order to learn. > > > > > > Then there is providence, or karma. As Swamiji has said, when a > > > disciple is accepted the gurudeva takes on some of the burden of the > > > disciples karma, so the gurudeva is intimately aware of the > > disciples > > > karma as it is unfolding (at least, I would think, the `big' things) > > . > > > > > > When a disciple surrenders to the gurudeva, she does so for one > > > reason, to achieve liberation. The gurudeva accepts the disciple for > > > the same reason, to bring her as near the goal of life as she can. > > In > > > the pursuit of this goal providence can sometimes get in the way of > > > the sadhana. Part of the guru's duty is to, as much as possible, > > keep > > > that from happening. > > > > > > You remember the story of the King and the Minister? The King was > > > destined to die that day, but got off with only a cut on his finger > > > because of his Minister's faith. It is so with the gurudeva. > > > > > > According to Pundit Tigunait, Swami Rama once asked him to perform a > > > certain practice before returning to the States, and this practice > > > saved his life a few days later on the drive back to the ashram. > > Swami > > > Rama also wrote of his own karma which required him to die as a > > young > > > man, but which, by the grace of his Master, became a fall from a > > cliff > > > leading to injury, rather than death (though he was not altogether > > > spared the experience). Swami Shivananda once told a certain > > disciple > > > not to go climbing mountains. A few days later, this same disciple > > > tripped while climbing a mountain, and died. Shivananda said > > something > > > along the lines of, "Well, I did warn him not climb mountains. He > > > chose not to listen." > > > > > > A guru is in the business of fulfilling providence, not thwarting > > it. > > > It seems some measure of the debt must always be paid, by someone. > > > > > > In the moderating of providence by the guru, I think the measure > > lies > > > in the bond that lies between guru and disciple, the sadhana. What > > > impact will this event have on the sadhana if it comes to pass? This > > > consideration leads to other questions, such as, "If I'm not doing > > my > > > sadhana, is there any reason to mitigate my karmas?" > > > > > > If one is dedicated, I believe the gurudeva will completely (as far > > as > > > possible and necessary) protect the disciple. While for most people > > > pain is a goad to seek refuge in God, for one absorbed in sadhana, > > it > > > is just another distraction. > > > > > > The guru is a banyan tree, where the disciple can seek shelter from > > > the worst of the rain and sun. > > > > > > Jai Maa! > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > Nanda said: > > > > > > > > I think to a certain extent - there IS an amount of physical and > > > > emotional protection , just as a mother shelters her child. But I > > > > believe beyond that the Guru will show us the way to accept life > > > > with equanimity. > > > > > > > Jai Maa > > > > Nanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 Dear Nanda and Chrisji & Henny, I agree with Henny's point of how our own ignorant interpretations give rise to fear. Verse 135 says .."takes away fear of time and death",...which makes it sound as if by chanting the Guru Gita we become more the witness and not so embroiled in past or future events, and by knowing our true self,dispells fear of death. Its recitation also destroys adversity to give us pure discrimination when dealing with beings of the nature described in the verse which sounds of the gross and subtle levels of our experience. In verse 25 of the Patanjali Sutras it says pure awareness,pure consciousness is the cause of the destruction of ignorance (avidya). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 Surathananda, I certainly can't argue with that. The only point I might raise, and I'm not even sure it's at all important, is that it may be difficult to distinguish between the effects of the mantra shakti (the direct effects of chanting the text) and the grace of the guru, since the purpose of the recitation (the purpose stated in the viniyoga) is to achieve perfection in the prasad of the guru. If the scripture results in perfection in the blessings of the guru, anything we get by way of that perfection can be said to be attributable to the practice. But, I think I'm really splitting hairs... Jai Maa! Chris , "surathananda" <surathananda> wrote: > Dear Nanda and Chrisji & Henny, > > I agree with Henny's point of how our own ignorant interpretations give rise to fear. > Verse 135 says .."takes away fear of time and death",...which makes it sound as if > by chanting the Guru Gita we become more the witness and not so embroiled in > past or future events, and by knowing our true self,dispells fear of death. > Its recitation also destroys adversity to give us pure discrimination > when dealing with beings of the nature described in the verse which sounds of the > gross and subtle levels of our experience. > In verse 25 of the Patanjali Sutras it says pure awareness,pure consciousness > is the cause of the destruction of ignorance (avidya). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 Kalia, Well, it is just a story, designed to make a point. But you do make an interesting connection. Your focus on the sadhu's fear is interesting because the sav sadhana is undertaken for the purpose of creating nonattachment to the ephemeral objects of life, especially the body, and most especially, to remove the fear of death. Death is not the end of the world for a sadhu, it just seems rather a gruesome way to go. We all want to die in bed, having made our peace and said our goodbyes to all and sundry. Who knows, perhaps our imaginary gurudeva guided our sadhu's soul to a better situation in his next birth. Jai Maa! Chris , Kali Kali <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote: > Thanks Chris. Stil think that the Guru had protected the sadu many times before and realized that he had to be eaten in order to over come the fear. It could also be that he allowed the fear to overtake his mind and forgot to call out to the Guru for assistance > > Kalia > > > Chris Kirner <chriskirner1956> wrote: > Kalia, > > That's really all there is. The idea of the story, I think, is to show > that the simple devotee of God is always protected, while even the > most disciplined sadhus may not be (the corpse meditation is a pretty > austere practice). But I always feel sorry for the poor sadhu, who > should, I feel, have been protected by his gurudeva. > > Jai Maa! > Chris > > > > , Kali Kali > <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote: > > Dear Nanda and Chris, > > > > My take on your questions - > > > > "Does it mean that the Guru saves us from each and every calamity > that can befall us OR > > > > Does the Guru show us by example how to deal/face that calamity?" > > > > Yes there is a certain amount of protection for us from the Guru but > there is also Kripa (do and get). The Guru shows us by example how to > deal/face any calamity that might befall us and knows when to intervene. > > > > "Where was that guy's guru when the tiger came?" > > > > This might have been an element of fear that remained with the sadhu > which needed to be corrected. > > > > Chris can you please share a bit more of the story if possible so as > to get a better understandng. > > > > Pranams. > > > > Kalia > > > > > > Nanda <chandimaakijai> wrote: > > Chris said : > > > Shree Maa tells the story of the aghori sadhu doing sava meditation > > > (meditation seated on a corpse), who gets eaten by a tiger, while a > > > devotee of God is protected. Whenever I hear that story I always > > > think, "Where was that guy's guru when the tiger came?" > > > > > > > Hi Chris, > > You raised a VERY interesting question - what does the Guru's > > protection mean ? (And here referring to the physical Guru not the > > universal Guru - just to make things clear) > > > > Does it mean that the Guru saves us from each and every calamity > > that can befall us > > > > OR > > > > Does the Guru show us by example how to deal/face that calamity ? > > > > I think to a certain extent - there IS an amount of physical and > > emotional protection , just as a mother shelters her child. But I > > believe beyond that the Guru will show us the way to accept life > > with equanimity. > > > > Atleast those are my thoughts. Thank you for raising such an > > interesting topic. I would like to know what the others think too. > > > > Jai Maa > > Nanda > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > / > > > > > > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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