376--question on sitting- Q&A WITH SWAMIJI--GG Verse 137 and Asans

[Guest guest]

Dear all, concerning Swamiji's response :

> If the asana is too flimsy or too hard we will contemplate the pain

in

> our backside rather than the love of the Guru.

 

I have an inkling that most of you are familiar with the problem of

learning to sit in the siddhasana and learning to recite the text at

the same time. At times, all I can think about is 'how many more

pages till the end', so I can unbend my legs. So contemplation of the

meaning of the text goes out the window (but it sure teaches you how

to read Sanskrit quickly). I wonder if it is advisable to first learn

to recite and understand the text, for which a minimum of comfort is

required (for instance, sit on the edge of a cushion to keep the

spine straight and keep the weight of the heel) and concentrate on

maintaining the correct position later, or go for the whole package

in one and try to recite in the correct position for as long as you

can stand it (and break off if necessary or learn to deal with

discomfort). What is your experience?

 

with love,

Henny

 

 

 

, "Nanda" <chandimaakijai>

wrote:

> Question from Chris:

> I wonder if you could explain this verse for me, For instance, I do

> not understand why sitting on a cloth will produce affliction, and

> sitting on wood produces no fruit.Thank you so much.

>

> Swamiji's response :

> If the asana is too flimsy or too hard we will contemplate the pain

in

> our backside rather than the love of the Guru.

>

> Question from Henny:

> I am eager to learn what merit there is in sitting on a dead

animal's

> skin. Is the animal symbolic of certain attributes like swiftness

or

> courage?

>

> Swamiji's response :

> Also sacrifice, giving up our animalism, our animalistic

tendencies.

> Also the skin will provide optimum insulation between us and the

earth.

>

> Question from Sherri/Kalia :

> The next several verses (138 onwards) of the Guru Gita are related

and

> deal with color and directions to face when practicing. I have a

> lingering question regarding the qualities that may be enhanced by

the

> various colors and directions faced...If one has a real need for

> support in more than one area, should the disciple rotate through

> colors of asan and directions faced or is there some other

> instruction? I recollect discussion of this in the past but

remember

> not being totally sated. Thank you Swamiji for your overwhelming

> generosity.

>

> Swamiji's response :

> If there a is specific type of support that one needs, that subject

> should be consulted with the Guru, rather than randomly changing

> colors and directions.

[Guest guest]

Henny,

 

This is a perrennial question here on the group. Everyone, at least

all of us who grew up in the West, have this problem.

 

Maa has said, "My devotees do not use pillows."

 

Swamiji has said that one should add five minutes a month to their asana.

 

Devnath has said (presumably on the advice of Swamiji) to do one mala

of japa in the preferred asana every day, and increase appropriately.

 

Maa has also said that once one sits, the knees should not move until

the practice is finished.

 

It's apparent from these comments that while there is a standard of

perfection, there is some wiggle-room for those of us who are in the

process of training our bodies.

 

For myself, I came from a tradition where pillows were encouraged for

Westerners, whose legs are almost uniformly stiff and unyielding,

especially as they age So, in addition to my blanket asana, I have

a rice bag filled with buckwheat hulls that I have been using as a

pillow, as well as two other props, a rolled-up dishtowel that tales

the place of the heel against the perineum, and a rolled-up hand towel

that goes under my left leg in suhkasana (easy posture).

 

The problem with suhkasana is that there is no pressure on the

muladhara chakra, and it is rather unstable. With the right leg on top

of the left heel, the right foot provides all the support for the left

leg. The foot, not being a rigid structure, tends to collapse and hurt

if the leg is not supported. Supporting it greatly increases the

stability and comfort, and hence the endurance of this asan. But even

with a prop under the left leg, suhkasana is inherently uncomfortable

after a while because, unlike siddhasana, where the weight is spread

across the buttocks and legs, in suhkasana, the weight is

concentrated, largely, on the sitting bones of the hips and the feet,

and there is a concentration of pressure where the right leg rests on

the heel. It's not a good asana for protracted sitting.

 

The problem with using a pillow is that it is hard to get both proper

pressure on the pelvic floor, which naturally stimulates the upward

flow of prana, and it is harder to get the pelvis aligned properly

with the spine, which can block the upward flow of prana. During a

retreat one time, Maa, significant of nothing, just up and said into

her microphone, "The reason you did not get samadhi is your hips were

too high on the pillow." (the spine wasn't aligned) There was a room

full of people, but I thought she was talking to me.

 

I have been practicing in this way for some time now. My practice is

broken-up into two parts. For the first, I sit in suhkasana, with the

props, and in the second, siddhasana, with the pillow. I have a pretty

fair sense, I think, of where the pelvis is, but I still have to think

about it, and about the pressure and flow from the tailbone area

(swadhisthana).

 

Just lately, I have gotten enough limberness to begin sitting without

the pillow. I am finding there is a difficult adjustment while the

muscles get used to the new arrangement. My advice would be, if you

need the pillow, use it, if you don't, don't, but if you do, make sure

it's firm and not too thick, and always remember the ideal of

perfection, "My devotees do not use pillows."

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

 

 

, "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote:

> Dear all, concerning Swamiji's response :

>

> > If the asana is too flimsy or too hard we will contemplate the pain

> in

> > our backside rather than the love of the Guru.

>

> I have an inkling that most of you are familiar with the problem of

> learning to sit in the siddhasana and learning to recite the text at

> the same time. At times, all I can think about is 'how many more

> pages till the end', so I can unbend my legs. So contemplation of the

> meaning of the text goes out the window (but it sure teaches you how

> to read Sanskrit quickly). I wonder if it is advisable to first learn

> to recite and understand the text, for which a minimum of comfort is

> required (for instance, sit on the edge of a cushion to keep the

> spine straight and keep the weight of the heel) and concentrate on

> maintaining the correct position later, or go for the whole package

> in one and try to recite in the correct position for as long as you

> can stand it (and break off if necessary or learn to deal with

> discomfort). What is your experience?

>

> with love,

> Henny

>

>

>

> , "Nanda" <chandimaakijai>

> wrote:

> > Question from Chris:

> > I wonder if you could explain this verse for me, For instance, I do

> > not understand why sitting on a cloth will produce affliction, and

> > sitting on wood produces no fruit.Thank you so much.

> >

> > Swamiji's response :

> > If the asana is too flimsy or too hard we will contemplate the pain

> in

> > our backside rather than the love of the Guru.

> >

> > Question from Henny:

> > I am eager to learn what merit there is in sitting on a dead

> animal's

> > skin. Is the animal symbolic of certain attributes like swiftness

> or

> > courage?

> >

> > Swamiji's response :

> > Also sacrifice, giving up our animalism, our animalistic

> tendencies.

> > Also the skin will provide optimum insulation between us and the

> earth.

> >

> > Question from Sherri/Kalia :

> > The next several verses (138 onwards) of the Guru Gita are related

> and

> > deal with color and directions to face when practicing. I have a

> > lingering question regarding the qualities that may be enhanced by

> the

> > various colors and directions faced...If one has a real need for

> > support in more than one area, should the disciple rotate through

> > colors of asan and directions faced or is there some other

> > instruction? I recollect discussion of this in the past but

> remember

> > not being totally sated. Thank you Swamiji for your overwhelming

> > generosity.

> >

> > Swamiji's response :

> > If there a is specific type of support that one needs, that subject

> > should be consulted with the Guru, rather than randomly changing

> > colors and directions.

[Guest guest]

Early on it became more uncomfortable and painful for me to not sit in swastik

or padma

asan or vajra asan -- so when it came time to choose which pain, I thought to

favor the

asan I was trying to accomplish and try to stay in it at least through Chapter 2

before

coming out for a few seconds of vajra asan during a dhynam at the beginning of a

Chapter

when necessary.

 

sometimes my loud chanting was/is due the the pain -- I told Maa -- she said,

"Good.

Keep going." -- most of the time the pain goes away just like the thoughts that

come and

go flowing by

 

beware of sharp pain -- that's not a good sign

 

in suhkasana the legs are blocked from going down by your feet underneath them

 

in half lotus (if there is a such a pose , my back posture would be out of

balance and

start hurting, and my foot on the ground would really be in pain after an hour

or so

>there is some wiggle-room for those of us who are in the

> process of training our bodies.

 

yes, our minds are still wiggling around, hence the body follows

> During a

> retreat one time, Maa, significant of nothing, just up and said into

> her microphone, "The reason you did not get samadhi is your hips were

> too high on the pillow." (the spine wasn't aligned) There was a room

> full of people, but I thought she was talking to me.

 

Pranayam while chanting REALLY helps open up the asan! and have the intention to

breath

from low down below the navel -- breath into the pain a little Chant louder!

 

Without a pillow the hips and everything will open up much faster. Maybe it's a

little more

painful at first.

 

There is some pain to go through, no question, but I found that after an hour

the pain of

not being in padma, swastik or vajra asan was WAY more and that it worked better

to

come out of the asan, sit in vajra asan for a mala and gentle strech, and then

continue

back in padma or swastik.

 

I have yet to be able to sit in swastik by the way and am just like everyone

else here in that

regard. I can feel where the body is going as it is growing towards being able

to do it, but

it hasn't happened yet so I sit in padma asan. Swami suggests that swastik is

better for the

longer times (4+ hours) and that he has noticed that the sadhus who sit for long

hours in

padma asan tend to sway a little and not sit solid and steady.

 

AND, you start to notice how food, sleep and everything impact the asan and the

experience of more subtle perception and awareness. There's lots of tapasya

ahead!

 

Inconceivable are the austerities which must be performed.

 

 

Jai Maa

[Guest guest]

Devanth,

 

It's good to hear your experiences with asana.

 

I wish I could get into padmasana (not that I would use it much - I'd

just like to be able to do it) [Not even a consideration, at this

point]

 

Your point about the pranayama is well taken. The breath can be of

great help opening up those clenched muscles.

 

I guess all of us find a balance between the pain and the practice

that allows us to keep going....

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

 

 

 

, "Devanath Saraswati"

<devnath9> wrote:

> Early on it became more uncomfortable and painful for me to not sit

in swastik or padma

> asan or vajra asan -- so when it came time to choose which pain, I

thought to favor the

> asan I was trying to accomplish and try to stay in it at least

through Chapter 2 before

> coming out for a few seconds of vajra asan during a dhynam at the

beginning of a Chapter

> when necessary.

>

> sometimes my loud chanting was/is due the the pain -- I told Maa --

she said, "Good.

> Keep going." -- most of the time the pain goes away just like the

thoughts that come and

> go flowing by

>

> beware of sharp pain -- that's not a good sign

>

> in suhkasana the legs are blocked from going down by your feet

underneath them

>

> in half lotus (if there is a such a pose , my back posture would

be out of balance and

> start hurting, and my foot on the ground would really be in pain

after an hour or so

>

> >there is some wiggle-room for those of us who are in the

> > process of training our bodies.

>

> yes, our minds are still wiggling around, hence the body follows

>

> > During a

> > retreat one time, Maa, significant of nothing, just up and said into

> > her microphone, "The reason you did not get samadhi is your hips were

> > too high on the pillow." (the spine wasn't aligned) There was a room

> > full of people, but I thought she was talking to me.

>

> Pranayam while chanting REALLY helps open up the asan! and have the

intention to breath

> from low down below the navel -- breath into the pain a little

Chant louder!

>

> Without a pillow the hips and everything will open up much faster.

Maybe it's a little more

> painful at first.

>

> There is some pain to go through, no question, but I found that

after an hour the pain of

> not being in padma, swastik or vajra asan was WAY more and that it

worked better to

> come out of the asan, sit in vajra asan for a mala and gentle

strech, and then continue

> back in padma or swastik.

>

> I have yet to be able to sit in swastik by the way and am just like

everyone else here in that

> regard. I can feel where the body is going as it is growing towards

being able to do it, but

> it hasn't happened yet so I sit in padma asan. Swami suggests that

swastik is better for the

> longer times (4+ hours) and that he has noticed that the sadhus who

sit for long hours in

> padma asan tend to sway a little and not sit solid and steady.

>

> AND, you start to notice how food, sleep and everything impact the

asan and the

> experience of more subtle perception and awareness. There's lots of

tapasya ahead!

>

> Inconceivable are the austerities which must be performed.

>

>

>

> Jai Maa