Qstn for the group - Staying devoted to the Guru

[Guest guest]

Dear Kalia and all,

 

The verse for today GG -142 - It is the "cause of Love" ... brought to

my mind a question that I have been pondering over.

 

There are many people that have met Shree Maa and Swamiji, and indeed

met many Satgurus. Some of us fall in love and are drawn to them , but after a

while, despite our declarations of undying love for the Guru ... some of us fall

out of love too.

 

This then brings me to my question or a set of related questions - how

does one STAY in love ? How does one keep up the devotion ?

 

What is that quality in us that we need to develop to keep the

devotion alive ?

 

I look forward to your well reasoned and heartfelt answers.

Thanks and love

Nanda

[Guest guest]

Nanda,

 

It's interesting you should write this today. I was just re-reading

the excerpt written by Swami Rama about the guru that I posted a while

back, and contemplating the same kinds of issues.

 

I think a great deal has to do with where the love for guru comes from

and whether it has a firm foundation in faith. Swamiji (Satyananda)

has mentioned (somewhere) that some people want to possess the guru

with their love in the same way they do in a romantic relationship (I

hope I got the gist of that right). There are many reasons people feel

affection for another person, and most of them are personal rather

than divine. Without a firm faith in the guru and a burning desire for

liberation (the guru's fundamental purpose), it is easy to become

disillusioned or angry.

 

My recent fit of pique was all about why Mother and Swamiji weren't

helping me more, weren't teaching me more, and seemed not to care. In

reality, it was about how disgusted I was with myself, really, tired

of putting up with the same old me day after day, week after week,

month, well, you get the idea. I wanted change NOW!!!

 

I "came back" because, well, because I had no where else to go. It is

a difficult thing to explain, but no one has affected me in the same

way since I grew to love Swami Rama. The first time I saw Shree Maa (a

little over a year after Swami Rama dropped his body), my first

thought was "She looks like Swami Rama!" As ridiculous as that sounds

on the surface, (especially since I never actually "saw" Swamiji)

there was a subtle expression of her attainment in her bearing that I

immediately recognized; it was her jnana. Then, through her music, my

devotion for her grew until she was always with me.

 

In the choice of a guru, full faith is vital. There was no one I knew

of whom I could trust to guide me across the sea of samsara. So, where

was I to go? I had no choice but to get over it.

 

Without both full faith and a burning desire for liberation it becomes

too easy for the inevitable conflicts that arise in the disciple's

heart and mind to lead to a break in the relationship.

 

Here's part of that bit I posted earlier. It's from Sacred Journey:

Living Purposefully and Dying Gracefully by Swami Rama

 

The relationship with the guru is based on the purest form of

unconditional love. There is complete openness with the guru. The

disciple should hold nothing back from the guru. This is why in the

tradition, a student goes to the guru and offers a bundle of sticks

to burn. The bundle symbolizes that everything the disciple has is

offered unconditionally to the guru. Everything is offered to the

guru so the guru can do the work of shaping the student spiritually.

The disciple comes with full faith and entrusts his whole life to the

guru. The guru takes that life and chops it and burns what is not

necessary, and then carefully carves what remains into something

sacred.

 

In this chopping and burning, the guru is merciless. The guru's job

is not to hold hands with the disciple and wipe away tears, but to

cut into pieces the disciple's ego and all that stands between the

disciple and freedom. The guru does not allow dependence. If the

disciple becomes too dependent on the guru, the guru pushes the

disciple away, insisting on independence. It is a remarkable

expression of the deepest love.

 

To be on a spiritual path with a guru is not an easy thing. It is not

pleasant. The guru tests the disciples, puts them in the most

difficult situations, and creates obstacles for them. All the tests,

difficulties, and obstacles are meant to train and expand the

consciousness of the disciple.

 

That is the sole work of the guru. The guru wants nothing from the

disciple. Guru is that force moving a soul toward enlightenment. The

guru's actions are from pure compassion. As the sun shines and lives

far above, the guru gives spiritual love and remains unattached.

 

Good topic, Nanda.

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

 

 

, "Nanda" <chandimaakijai> wrote:

> Dear Kalia and all,

>

> The verse for today GG -142 - It is the "cause of Love" ... brought to

> my mind a question that I have been pondering over.

>

> There are many people that have met Shree Maa and Swamiji, and indeed

> met many Satgurus. Some of us fall in love and are drawn to them ,

but after a while, despite our declarations of undying love for the

Guru ... some of us fall out of love too.

>

> This then brings me to my question or a set of related questions - how

> does one STAY in love ? How does one keep up the devotion ?

>

> What is that quality in us that we need to develop to keep the

> devotion alive ?

>

> I look forward to your well reasoned and heartfelt answers.

> Thanks and love

> Nanda

[Guest guest]

Dearest Nanda,

I think there is some difference between sentimental love and being

in-love. The latter is like a deep well, or a deep lake, the ripples

and warm air of the day do not taint the cool water at the bottom. It

sustains, we count on it, we know it is there, sometimes we are more

vocal about our appreciation than others. Sentimental love is more

like a flashy thing to me. What would be a good analogy? I very cool

glass of something on a very hot day when we have been working

outside. We are Sooooo grateful and sooo enjoy the respite. But once

the circumstances change and either we no longer need the cold drink

or get distracted by some other stronger need or desire, we do not

have the same relationship.

 

I actually am not convinced that we can make the glass a well. I do

think that Yoganandaji was correct when he said something like "love

grows in an atmosphere of usefulness, affection, and respect". Even

Shree Maa talks about learning from many sadhus, yet her Guru is HER

GURU, with no doubt. That implies something beyond to me, something

that just is. I can cultivate love and respect, but being in-love

seems to me to be beyond cultivation. Now to wrap up this little

contemplation, everything requires respect, maintenance, that

wonderful well would be of no use if refuse were thrown down it, thus

the warning to not engage in gossip about the Guru. If I speak bad of

my beloved, or listen to criticism, it makes it hard to keep my heart

open.

Om Shanti

 

, "Nanda" <chandimaakijai>

wrote:

> Dear Kalia and all,

>

> The verse for today GG -142 - It is the "cause of Love" ... brought

to

> my mind a question that I have been pondering over.

>

> There are many people that have met Shree Maa and Swamiji, and

indeed

> met many Satgurus. Some of us fall in love and are drawn to them ,

but after a while, despite our declarations of undying love for the

Guru ... some of us fall out of love too.

>

> This then brings me to my question or a set of related questions -

how

> does one STAY in love ? How does one keep up the devotion ?

>

> What is that quality in us that we need to develop to keep the

> devotion alive ?

>

> I look forward to your well reasoned and heartfelt answers.

> Thanks and love

> Nanda

[Guest guest]

Dear Nanda and all,

 

In my humble opinion, in order to stay in love you must ask yourself

'who is it who loves whom'? Is it the 'personal me', looking for a

person who perfectly reflects our own construction of what a guru is

or should be, varying from a perfect parent to someone walking on

water, or is it the 'I' behind the 'me', that inexhaustible stream of

love in our deepest center that cannot help but flow out and into the

ocean of love we intuit the guru to be?

For me , the experience of 'falling in love' with the guru has to do

with having been touched at that deepest center. But I think that we

often get scared and 'translate' the feeling into something that is

not quite so overwhelming and does not make us feel quite so

vulnerable; we look for someone to hold our hand and 'be there for

us'

all the time. And when he/she fails to do just that, we turn away.

Sometimes, in my darkest hours, I want to 'have' a guru and, to be

quite honest, that means I want him/her to serve 'me' and to help me

in the way in which I plan to be helped. Of course, that is not love.

But when these clouds lift a little, I find something in me that just

loves. There is something flowing out, not as much to the person, as

to that 'something' that is intuited in the very center of the guru:

I

love You. And as soon as you trust that feeling and allow it to

happen, it grows stronger and not weaker. And it flows no matter

what,

as long as you keep the 'me' with the hidden agenda out of the way.

And, I may add, in my experience it is this way in other

relationships

as well; you 'fall out of love' because you feel your personal needs

are not met. It is a symptom of poverty. But as soon as you allow the

river of love to flow, it changes the landscape (your relationship)

and irrigates hardened soil. There is no end to the riches that soil

will yield; to stay in love is a symptom of wealth.

 

To use an analogy: if you want your husband to behave exactly as you

think he should, you perhaps get disappointed and wonder if it might

not be a good idea to search for a better one. But if you allow him

to

express himself freely, even though the form it takes may not be to

your personal liking, and allow yourself to look behind the form and

see what his actions are expressions of, you may find yourself loving

him even more, because you get to see You.

 

This does not mean we should not use our discrimination vis à vis

a

guru or a husband; but even if we choose to look elsewhere, we need

not turn away bitter and angry. Generosity is the term that comes to

mind; we can afford to leave and still love.

 

thank you very much for this interesting question, which has kept me

occupied during a long train journey,

 

with love,

Henny

 

 

 

 

, "Nanda" <chandimaakijai>

wrote:

> Dear Kalia and all,

>

> The verse for today GG -142 - It is the "cause of Love" ... brought

to

> my mind a question that I have been pondering over.

>

> There are many people that have met Shree Maa and Swamiji, and

indeed

> met many Satgurus. Some of us fall in love and are drawn to them ,

but after a while, despite our declarations of undying love for the

Guru ... some of us fall out of love too.

>

> This then brings me to my question or a set of related questions -

how

> does one STAY in love ? How does one keep up the devotion ?

>

> What is that quality in us that we need to develop to keep the

> devotion alive ?

>

> I look forward to your well reasoned and heartfelt answers.

> Thanks and love

> Nanda

[Guest guest]

This then brings me to my question or a set of related questions - how

does one STAY in love ? How does one keep up the devotion ? What is

that quality in us that we need to develop to keep the devotion alive

?

Dear Nanda,

Thanks for this question. For me to stay in love with Gurujis I just

have to recall my first visit to the Mandir and see Gurujis there

surrounded by all their children making merry. I also recall how

they would sit and share a meal with us on occasion and hug us

individually.

To keep up the devotion there is a time set aside for sadhana every

day - puja, chanting, singing and some kind of offering back to the

universe even if only through the preparation of a meal for a family,

relative or friend. Gazing at the focuses of Gurujis and other forms

of Divinity, talking with them and seeking their guidance on matters.

To nurture this devotion one needs faith, firm faith. In the west

there are so many temptations in so many forms that it is easy to be

led astray. This satsanga group is the only means by which I can be

with persons of similiar consciousness as in this island this path to

their way of thinking is only for "indians".

Ringing a bell or (attempting) blowing a conch send looks of curiosity

when one leaves the house. I read and re-read stories of the saints

and sages, listen to and sing bhajans, gaze on photos, try to make a

conscious effort to chant mantras (although at times I get caught up

and sometime might pass without doing so), all the while offering

them any egotistical attachments which would stand in the way of my

being close to or at one with Gurujis.

To even think on Gurujis this child knows that she is in love, the joy

of the thought can bring a smile or laughter a tear or tears. To

recall Maa's devotional singing, to see her playing the drums or

offering a meal prepared by her own loving hands, to see Swamiji

offering even a flower to the Mother or perform aarati. These are

all memories well engraved in this soul's consciousness. For Gurujis

teach us by example - not do as I say and not as I do - they show us

the path, they give us their all and I too pray one day to be so in

love that I can say with purest devotion "Gurujis, take me into you".

Pranams to my Beloved Gurujis.

Pranams to Nanda Devi.

Kaliananda Saraswati.

Discover Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM &; more. Check it out!

[Guest guest]

That was just beautiful, Kalia.

 

I'm so sorry people are not more accepting where you are. But I guess

it is the same in most places. I tend to keep my practices to myself,

as well. Too, this is my only satsanga. We keep each other alive in

the love of the Goddess!

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

 

 

, Kali Kali

<kaliananda_saraswati> wrote:

>

>

> Nanda <chandimaakijai> wrote:

> This then brings me to my question or a set of related questions -

how does one STAY in love ? How does one keep up the devotion ?

>

> What is that quality in us that we need to develop to keep the

devotion alive ?

>

> Dear Nanda,

>

> Thanks for this question. For me to stay in love with Gurujis I

just have to recall my first visit to the Mandir and see Gurujis there

surrounded by all their children making merry. I also recall how they

would sit and share a meal with us on occasion and hug us individually.

>

> To keep up the devotion there is a time set aside for sadhana every

day - puja, chanting, singing and some kind of offering back to the

universe even if only through the preparation of a meal for a family,

relative or friend. Gazing at the focuses of Gurujis and other forms

of Divinity, talking with them and seeking their guidance on matters.

>

> To nurture this devotion one needs faith, firm faith. In the west

there are so many temptations in so many forms that it is easy to be

led astray. This satsanga group is the only means by which I can be

with persons of similiar consciousness as in this island this path to

their way of thinking is only for "indians".

>

> Ringing a bell or (attempting) blowing a conch send looks of

curiosity when one leaves the house. I read and re-read stories of the

saints and sages, listen to and sing bhajans, gaze on photos, try to

make a conscious effort to chant mantras (although at times I get

caught up and sometime might pass without doing so), all the while

offering them any egotistical attachments which would stand in the way

of my being close to or at one with Gurujis.

>

> To even think on Gurujis this child knows that she is in love, the

joy of the thought can bring a smile or laughter a tear or tears. To

recall Maa's devotional singing, to see her playing the drums or

offering a meal prepared by her own loving hands, to see Swamiji

offering even a flower to the Mother or perform aarati. These are all

memories well engraved in this soul's consciousness. For Gurujis

teach us by example - not do as I say and not as I do - they show us

the path, they give us their all and I too pray one day to be so in

love that I can say with purest devotion "Gurujis, take me into you".

>

> Pranams to my Beloved Gurujis.

>

> Pranams to Nanda Devi.

>

> Kaliananda Saraswati.

>

>

>

>

> Discover

> Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM & more. Check it out!

[Guest guest]

Namaste Dear Nanda,

 

Devotion is a constant. Clues from the Thirumandiram verse

 

139. Guru's Role in Soul's Illumination

 

It is but to see the Guru's Holy Form,

It is but to chant the Guru's Holy Name,

It is but to hear the Guru's Holy Word,

It is but to muse on the Guru's Holy Being

Thus it is the soul its illumination receives.

 

With Love

 

Om Gurudeva

 

Kanda

[Guest guest]

nanda

 

here is my thought to your qstn: "What is that quality in us that we

need to develop to keep the devotion alive ?"

 

the answer is, have respect, seek to help, do the practice, and it

will grow as it should. some people might manifest more or less of

that quality externally. my hint is to not be guided by feelings

alone, but to be guided by our understanding ... the feelings of bhav

are a natural consequence when we emerge from the torpor of non-love.

 

 

 

, "Nanda" <chandimaakijai>

wrote:

> Dear Kalia and all,

>

> The verse for today GG -142 - It is the "cause of Love" ... brought

to

> my mind a question that I have been pondering over.

>

> There are many people that have met Shree Maa and Swamiji, and

indeed

> met many Satgurus. Some of us fall in love and are drawn to them ,

but after a while, despite our declarations of undying love for the

Guru ... some of us fall out of love too.

>

> This then brings me to my question or a set of related questions -

how

> does one STAY in love ? How does one keep up the devotion ?

>

> What is that quality in us that we need to develop to keep the

> devotion alive ?

>

> I look forward to your well reasoned and heartfelt answers.

> Thanks and love

> Nanda