to Chris re:how sadhana affects the family--"seeing it"

[Guest guest]

chris--how about this:

 

we *are all already* free!!

the degree to which we are able/willing to start *realizing* that and

*behaving* that way, is the degree to which we can extricate

ourselves, and by proxy, our families, from the delusion of bondage.

 

some practical examples of the kinds of "knots" that bind families

into generations of suffering/delusion could be

physical/emotional/verbal abuse; bigotry and hatred; anger and fear

resulting from war, poverty or famine; fanatical ideologies; cultish

or overly tribal identification, alcoholism/addiction, etc. these

things often get repeated (like the abused father abusing the son) or

transferred (like through guilt or shame) from person to person

through the generations. manifestations can be physical, emotional,

psychological.

 

does this help? seeing the very tangible circumstances that cause

families to transfer their pain from person to person, you can touch

the deep well of compassion. you can discover how, when you step OUT

of those traps of emotional bondage yourself, you do it for all of

them--in the sense that you no longer contribute to the legacy of

pain, and instead create a new path, a new example of freedom in the

lineage of your family, of humankind.

 

your freedom becomes their freedom! the energy is no longer bound up

in the suffering! you have set it free to return to Being! Yay!

 

chris, you are beautiful and your posts are beautiful. we all forget

our true nature in moments! that is why we are here to remind each

other! thank you for that, you do it for me in your posts!

 

may She shower you continuously

with her love and blessings,

leela

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, "Chris Kirner"

<chriskirner1956> wrote:

> Very nice, Leela!

>

> I can't say I really "see" it yet, but the idea of cutting the knot of

> responsibility for all the generations seems good. I'll have to give

> the whole idea some more thought.

>

> Off the top of my head though, it seems there must at least be

> limitations to this cutting of knots, otherwise there would be no

> sadhana, we'd all be free (since at some future time I [we, all of us]

> will be free, and will, therefore, have cut all the knots of karma).

> [i think I have a headache]

>

> Your view of our interconnection is very nice. I wish I lived there

> myself. I believe it's true, of course, but I don't live there yet.

> More's the pity. [but I am moving that way!!!]

>

> Jai Maa!

> Chris

>

>

>

> , rr <durgakali8> wrote:

> >

> > At 2:09 PM +0000 6/15/05, wrote:

> > >how our sadhana effects our family both after us and

> > >before. I can't say I really understand this.

> >

> >

> > chris,

> >

> > from my experience (and i suppose that's all anyone can ever really

> > speak from) i find that by surrendering to MA, and allowing whatever

> > qualities that need to be transformed to be transformed, to whateveer

> > degree i am willing to do it, i not only transform old habituations

> > and patterns for myself, but i am freeing an entire lineage from its

> > legacy of pain, suffering, and delusion. seeing myself as a

> > distillation of energies from a vast array of ancestry, when i do the

> > work *not* to fall into the programmed (cultural, social, historical,

> > genetic, emotional body, etc.) patterns of delusion, i release the

> > knot for all that came before and all that will come after. it is a

> > healing of the drama that has been regenerating itself and playing

> > itself out for generation upon generation, and an opening into a new

> > more spacious direction for all.

> >

> > follow that lineage far enough in all directions and you find that

> > you are doing the work for the greater family of mankind, and then

> > for all beings everywhere. because the pain is not *your* pain, the

> > suffering is not *my* suffering, it is *the* suffering. whenever we

> > heal suffering in a localized expression of itself, it is

> > reverberating out and healing the pain of creation.

> >

> > in other words, by becoming more awake, and more infused with the

> > Mother's Love, we stop the transfer of pain from one individual to

> > the next, from one generation to the next. thus, our ancestors are

> > freed from the pain of having their suffering played out by those

> > next in line; those that come after have an opportunity to live in

> > ever more freedom and love, thereby creating more freedom and love

> > for those around them, and increasing the opportunities for freedom

> > and love for those who follow.

> >

> > What a gift. She is good. Jai MA!!

> >

> > blessings,

> > leela

[Guest guest]

Leela,

 

Thank you very much for your heartfelt response, as well as your

compliments (Ah, shucks).

 

I appreciate your surety, but I do not share it yet. You may indeed be

right, but I will have to sit with it for a while and let my

understanding of this continue to develop over time.

 

I understand well the legacy of human suffering and how it can express

itself in families through future generations. I also agree that we

are all connected, so that my peace affects the peace of all (though I

don't really experience this yet).

 

It seems it is true that our sadhana affects past generations. Swamiji

has said it does, and the Guru Gita says it does. I just do not have a

sense of how that is, that is satisfying to me.

 

Your image of a shared legacy of negative emotional energy through the

generations, both forward and backward, may well be right. It

certainly sounds good, and I intend to keep it with me for future

reference. Thank you for that.

 

Lastly, you shouldn't complement me like that. I might get too big to

live with myself.

 

 

Jai Maa!

Chris

 

 

 

, "durgakali8" <durgakali8> wrote:

> chris--how about this:

>

> we *are all already* free!!

> the degree to which we are able/willing to start *realizing* that and

> *behaving* that way, is the degree to which we can extricate

> ourselves, and by proxy, our families, from the delusion of bondage.

>

> some practical examples of the kinds of "knots" that bind families

> into generations of suffering/delusion could be

> physical/emotional/verbal abuse; bigotry and hatred; anger and fear

> resulting from war, poverty or famine; fanatical ideologies; cultish

> or overly tribal identification, alcoholism/addiction, etc. these

> things often get repeated (like the abused father abusing the son) or

> transferred (like through guilt or shame) from person to person

> through the generations. manifestations can be physical, emotional,

> psychological.

>

> does this help? seeing the very tangible circumstances that cause

> families to transfer their pain from person to person, you can touch

> the deep well of compassion. you can discover how, when you step OUT

> of those traps of emotional bondage yourself, you do it for all of

> them--in the sense that you no longer contribute to the legacy of

> pain, and instead create a new path, a new example of freedom in the

> lineage of your family, of humankind.

>

> your freedom becomes their freedom! the energy is no longer bound up

> in the suffering! you have set it free to return to Being! Yay!

>

> chris, you are beautiful and your posts are beautiful. we all forget

> our true nature in moments! that is why we are here to remind each

> other! thank you for that, you do it for me in your posts!

>

> may She shower you continuously

> with her love and blessings,

> leela

>

>

, "Chris Kirner"

> <chriskirner1956> wrote:

> > Very nice, Leela!

> >

> > I can't say I really "see" it yet, but the idea of cutting the knot of

> > responsibility for all the generations seems good. I'll have to give

> > the whole idea some more thought.

> >

> > Off the top of my head though, it seems there must at least be

> > limitations to this cutting of knots, otherwise there would be no

> > sadhana, we'd all be free (since at some future time I [we, all of us]

> > will be free, and will, therefore, have cut all the knots of karma).

> > [i think I have a headache]

> >

> > Your view of our interconnection is very nice. I wish I lived there

> > myself. I believe it's true, of course, but I don't live there yet.

> > More's the pity. [but I am moving that way!!!]

> >

> > Jai Maa!

> > Chris

> >

> >

> >

> > , rr <durgakali8> wrote:

> > >

> > > At 2:09 PM +0000 6/15/05, wrote:

> > > >how our sadhana effects our family both after us and

> > > >before. I can't say I really understand this.

> > >

> > >

> > > chris,

> > >

> > > from my experience (and i suppose that's all anyone can ever really

> > > speak from) i find that by surrendering to MA, and allowing

whatever

> > > qualities that need to be transformed to be transformed, to

whateveer

> > > degree i am willing to do it, i not only transform old habituations

> > > and patterns for myself, but i am freeing an entire lineage from

its

> > > legacy of pain, suffering, and delusion. seeing myself as a

> > > distillation of energies from a vast array of ancestry, when i

do the

> > > work *not* to fall into the programmed (cultural, social,

historical,

> > > genetic, emotional body, etc.) patterns of delusion, i release the

> > > knot for all that came before and all that will come after. it is a

> > > healing of the drama that has been regenerating itself and playing

> > > itself out for generation upon generation, and an opening into a

new

> > > more spacious direction for all.

> > >

> > > follow that lineage far enough in all directions and you find that

> > > you are doing the work for the greater family of mankind, and then

> > > for all beings everywhere. because the pain is not *your* pain, the

> > > suffering is not *my* suffering, it is *the* suffering. whenever we

> > > heal suffering in a localized expression of itself, it is

> > > reverberating out and healing the pain of creation.

> > >

> > > in other words, by becoming more awake, and more infused with the

> > > Mother's Love, we stop the transfer of pain from one individual to

> > > the next, from one generation to the next. thus, our ancestors are

> > > freed from the pain of having their suffering played out by those

> > > next in line; those that come after have an opportunity to live in

> > > ever more freedom and love, thereby creating more freedom and love

> > > for those around them, and increasing the opportunities for freedom

> > > and love for those who follow.

> > >

> > > What a gift. She is good. Jai MA!!

> > >

> > > blessings,

> > > leela