Guest guest Posted June 25, 2005 Report Share Posted June 25, 2005 Chrisji, thank you for this most interesting analysis. I think you may have a point here. It could very well be that different places are suited to different people in different states of awareness, and I guess the guru should advise the aspirant about which place would be most beneficial to his/her progress. Otherwise we'd all be in the graveyard proving how this place does not scare us one bit What you said about 'the feet of the Creator', however, made me wonder if there could be a connection between the places of recitation and different 'places' in the subtler bodies (forgive me my inability to express myself in technically correct terms here). For example, if someone having personal desires were to recite 'by water', the water could refer to the mind-stuff out of which such desires are formed, and the temples of Vishnu and Shiva could refer to the maintaining and destroying capacity we have of holding on to a desire only to replace it with another, better one. Oh well, I'm probably reading too much into this, but I enjoyed studying the verses again, pranams, Henny , "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956@y. ...> wrote: > Kalia, > > OK, here's what I'm thinking now about these verses. > > I know most of you are thinking of these verses in terms of an inward, > metaphorical interpretation, but I don't think so. I just don't think > the context supports that interpretation, not that the inner > conception of the environment isn't important, or even mentioned (it > is), but that it is not the primary sense of these verses, in my opinion. > > I am now thinking that these verses describe preferred locations, or > those locations most conducive to recitation. These locations are > divided into three categories, of increasing sophistication. The > intent, I think, is both to reassure, and provide some general > guidelines about how the energy and consciousness of the scripture, > and the sadhaka, fit with the rest of the world. > > We are all aware that certain physical localities have their own > energy, an intrinsic impetus to a certain kind of consciousness. That > is why we go to temples (or why we would if we had any temples here) .. > That is why we do certain practices in the same locations rishis did > them in times past (or we would if we had any rishis here [present > company excepted]). Some places, by their nature, are benign, and some > are less so, and different levels of experience, purity, and mastery > lend themselves to greater caution, or perhaps greater challenges. > > The first category is that sadhaka chanting for personal desires (vs. > 152). This is the most vulnerable recitation to adverse influences, > and one assumes, the least experienced practitioner. The locations are > few and probably the purest most benign of the "pure" locations. Two > are near water, and two are in temples (Vishnu and Shiva). > > The second category is that of the sadhaka practicing "vows of > purifying austerities". This is an unselfish recitation, in the > pursuit of enlightenment, and is more inherently protected than the > former type, and one may assume the practitioner is more experienced > (though mention of one without understanding is included here). Two > verses describe the "pure" locations in which this kind of recitation > is best undertaken (vs. 153-154). This includes "at the feet of the > creator" which can be anywhere, and speaks directly to what most of > you have expressed a preference for, the creation of your own sacred > space from the inside. I find myself wondering though if this phrase > "at the feet of the creator" doesn't perhaps refer to a specific > establishment of the asana with mantra (just a feeling). > > The third category is the most advanced. It is attaining to > "perfection". This category contains both benign and potentially > malevolent environments. I believe it is for the advanced > practitioner. I think it is interesting that three types of trees are > given as benign places to achieve perfection along with the possibly > more challenging "fearful place". These species of trees are > associated with Shiva (and in the case of the banyan, with the guru) , > but so are lots of other things. I wonder what makes trees so special > (other than the fact that they provide some shelter)? > > So that's what I think, now. I know that later on we are told we can > recite while riding on an elephant, so I'm not saying these are > "rules", but that they are intended to guide one to the best possible > circumstances for recitation, for these three basic stages or purposes. > > Jai Maa! > Chris > > > > > , Kali Kali > <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote: > > > > Here's our verse today - > > > > > > > > 155. In the cremation grounds and any other fearful place, or at the > root of a banyan tree perfection may be attained; at the root of a > datura tree (thorn-wood apple tree) or near a mango tree. > > > > > > > > Jai GuRu ki jai! > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2005 Report Share Posted June 25, 2005 No, you could be on to something. There are reasons some places are recommended over others, and I'm sure those reasons are of a subtle nature. It's good to speculate on the connections if you have the inclination. It can lead to new understanding. Jai Maa! Chris , "henny_v_i" <HvI@S...> wrote: > Chrisji, > > thank you for this most interesting analysis. I think you may have a > point here. It could very well be that different places are suited to > different people in different states of awareness, and I guess the > guru should advise the aspirant about which place would be most > beneficial to his/her progress. Otherwise we'd all be in the graveyard > proving how this place does not scare us one bit > What you said about 'the feet of the Creator', however, made me wonder > if there could be a connection between the places of recitation and > different 'places' in the subtler bodies (forgive me my inability to > express myself in technically correct terms here). For example, if > someone having personal desires were to recite 'by water', the water > could refer to the mind-stuff out of which such desires are formed, > and the temples of Vishnu and Shiva could refer to the maintaining and > destroying capacity we have of holding on to a desire only to replace > it with another, better one. Oh well, I'm probably reading too much > into this, but I enjoyed studying the verses again, > > pranams, > > Henny > > > , "Chris Kirner" <chriskirner1956@y. > ..> wrote: > > Kalia, > > > > OK, here's what I'm thinking now about these verses. > > > > I know most of you are thinking of these verses in terms of an > inward, > > metaphorical interpretation, but I don't think so. I just don't > think > > the context supports that interpretation, not that the inner > > conception of the environment isn't important, or even mentioned (it > > is), but that it is not the primary sense of these verses, in my > opinion. > > > > I am now thinking that these verses describe preferred locations, or > > those locations most conducive to recitation. These locations are > > divided into three categories, of increasing sophistication. The > > intent, I think, is both to reassure, and provide some general > > guidelines about how the energy and consciousness of the scripture, > > and the sadhaka, fit with the rest of the world. > > > > We are all aware that certain physical localities have their own > > energy, an intrinsic impetus to a certain kind of consciousness. > That > > is why we go to temples (or why we would if we had any temples here) > . > > That is why we do certain practices in the same locations rishis did > > them in times past (or we would if we had any rishis here [present > > company excepted]). Some places, by their nature, are benign, and > some > > are less so, and different levels of experience, purity, and mastery > > lend themselves to greater caution, or perhaps greater challenges. > > > > The first category is that sadhaka chanting for personal desires > (vs. > > 152). This is the most vulnerable recitation to adverse influences, > > and one assumes, the least experienced practitioner. The locations > are > > few and probably the purest most benign of the "pure" locations. Two > > are near water, and two are in temples (Vishnu and Shiva). > > > > The second category is that of the sadhaka practicing "vows of > > purifying austerities". This is an unselfish recitation, in the > > pursuit of enlightenment, and is more inherently protected than the > > former type, and one may assume the practitioner is more experienced > > (though mention of one without understanding is included here). Two > > verses describe the "pure" locations in which this kind of > recitation > > is best undertaken (vs. 153-154). This includes "at the feet of the > > creator" which can be anywhere, and speaks directly to what most of > > you have expressed a preference for, the creation of your own sacred > > space from the inside. I find myself wondering though if this phrase > > "at the feet of the creator" doesn't perhaps refer to a specific > > establishment of the asana with mantra (just a feeling). > > > > The third category is the most advanced. It is attaining to > > "perfection". This category contains both benign and potentially > > malevolent environments. I believe it is for the advanced > > practitioner. I think it is interesting that three types of trees > are > > given as benign places to achieve perfection along with the possibly > > more challenging "fearful place". These species of trees are > > associated with Shiva (and in the case of the banyan, with the guru) > , > > but so are lots of other things. I wonder what makes trees so > special > > (other than the fact that they provide some shelter)? > > > > So that's what I think, now. I know that later on we are told we can > > recite while riding on an elephant, so I'm not saying these are > > "rules", but that they are intended to guide one to the best > possible > > circumstances for recitation, for these three basic stages or > purposes. > > > > Jai Maa! > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > , Kali Kali > > <kaliananda_saraswati> wrote: > > > > > > Here's our verse today - > > > > > > > > > > > > 155. In the cremation grounds and any other fearful place, or at > the > > root of a banyan tree perfection may be attained; at the root of a > > datura tree (thorn-wood apple tree) or near a mango tree. > > > > > > > > > > > > Jai GuRu ki jai! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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