Guest guest Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 OM NAMAH SIVAYA so Steve what was Swamiji's answer? was it change the behavior? how about the one listed below about the spears inserted in your flesh. not cool. i doubt self-mutilation is all that constuctive. JAI MA , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> wrote: > not long ago we asked swamiji about what to do when we find our > actions are bad, and he had a very good succinct answer. > > i asked a baba this same question a few days ago, and he said, it was > not necessary to do anything, but meditate. > > here is another answer, the longest, from Sivaya Subramuniyaswami. i > found it interesting he lists one activity i heard of Shree Maa being > engaged in, that is, making 108 gifts. > > ===== > > LESSON 121 from Living with Siva > > Confession And Penance > > As a mature being in the higher nature, above the muladhara chakra, > ever seeking higher plateaus through sadhana, the Saivite seeks peace > whenever the mind is troubled. How does such a Saivite confess? How > does one tell of the reactions to misdeeds performed in all innocence > when but a child in the lower consciousness, living in the lower > nature, below the muladhara chakra? How and whom does one tell of > misdeeds performed during a lapse of conscience, even when living a > life of dharma? A Saivite confesses to God Siva, the Gods or his guru. > To confess to God Siva, go to His temple and mentally, psychically > place your burden at the holy feet of the murti in the sanctum > sanctorum. To confess to Gods Murugan or Ganesha, go to their temple > and place your confession at their holy feet. Or go to your satguru > and tell him of your inner plight, holding nothing back. This is how a > Saivite confesses inner burdens as he emerges out of the instinctive > mind of the lower nature into the purified intellect of the higher > nature. > > Yes, reconciliation is food for the soul. After the soul has > unburdened itself of the dross of the lower mind through honest > confession, a resolution must be made not to reenter the lower states > or rekindle the flames of the chakras below the muladhara. To achieve > reconciliation by apology for hurts caused another, or to atone by > performing acts of penance if a long time has passed since the apology > could have been made and received, is truly food for the soul. > > There are many forms of penance, prayashchitta, such as 1,008 > prostrations before Gods Ganesha, Murugan or Supreme God Siva, > apologizing and showing shame for misdeeds; performing japa slowly > 1,008 times on the holy rudraksha beads; giving of 108 handmade gifts > to the temple; performing manual chores at the temple for 108 hours, > such as cleaning, making garlands or arranging flowers; bringing > offerings of cooked food; performing kavadi with miniature spears > inserted in the flesh; making a pilgrimage by prostrating the body's > length again and again, or rolling around a temple. All these and more > are major means of atonement after each individual confession has been > made. > > The keynote in serious cases is asking one's satguru to give a > specific penance once the problem has been revealed. Once the satguru > is asked for penance, the penance must be performed exactly according > to his instruction. It should be done with full energy and without > delay. Deliberate delay or refusal to perform the penance shows the > devotee has rejected the assistance of the satguru. Further advice and > guidance will not be forthcoming until the instruction has been > fulfilled. Therefore, a devotee in such a condition does not approach > the satguru. He may, however, beseech the guru's assistance and > continued guidance if he is in the process of fulfilling the penance > over a period of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 eric, who knows, maybe i did that today, it was an accupunncture appt! .... here is the QA with Swamiji ... Question from Steve Bingoananda : Vashista's Yoga says, if one's own [possibly adharmic] behavior is "held at a distance" from consciousness and there is no identification, the ego-sense does not arise. On the other hand, it also seems useful to fully acknowledge one's own faults and more or less confess them to oneself or Shiva in meditation. Swamiji, what is best, to forget, or to acknowledge, one's own faults [as they are displayed for all to see in the field of life] or, does the ideal response change according to circumstances and the state of one's devotion at the time? Swamiji's response: Acknowledge, correct, appreciate and forget. , "ecjensen_us" <ecjensen_us> wrote: > OM NAMAH SIVAYA > > so Steve what was Swamiji's answer? was it change the behavior? > how about the one listed below about the spears inserted in your > flesh. not cool. i doubt self-mutilation is all that constuctive. > > JAI MA > > , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> > wrote: > > not long ago we asked swamiji about what to do when we find our > > actions are bad, and he had a very good succinct answer. > > > > i asked a baba this same question a few days ago, and he said, it > was > > not necessary to do anything, but meditate. > > > > here is another answer, the longest, from Sivaya Subramuniyaswami. > i > > found it interesting he lists one activity i heard of Shree Maa > being > > engaged in, that is, making 108 gifts. > > > > ===== > > > > LESSON 121 from Living with Siva > > > > Confession And Penance > > > > As a mature being in the higher nature, above the muladhara chakra, > > ever seeking higher plateaus through sadhana, the Saivite seeks > peace > > whenever the mind is troubled. How does such a Saivite confess? How > > does one tell of the reactions to misdeeds performed in all > innocence > > when but a child in the lower consciousness, living in the lower > > nature, below the muladhara chakra? How and whom does one tell of > > misdeeds performed during a lapse of conscience, even when living a > > life of dharma? A Saivite confesses to God Siva, the Gods or his > guru. > > To confess to God Siva, go to His temple and mentally, psychically > > place your burden at the holy feet of the murti in the sanctum > > sanctorum. To confess to Gods Murugan or Ganesha, go to their > temple > > and place your confession at their holy feet. Or go to your satguru > > and tell him of your inner plight, holding nothing back. This is > how a > > Saivite confesses inner burdens as he emerges out of the > instinctive > > mind of the lower nature into the purified intellect of the higher > > nature. > > > > Yes, reconciliation is food for the soul. After the soul has > > unburdened itself of the dross of the lower mind through honest > > confession, a resolution must be made not to reenter the lower > states > > or rekindle the flames of the chakras below the muladhara. To > achieve > > reconciliation by apology for hurts caused another, or to atone by > > performing acts of penance if a long time has passed since the > apology > > could have been made and received, is truly food for the soul. > > > > There are many forms of penance, prayashchitta, such as 1,008 > > prostrations before Gods Ganesha, Murugan or Supreme God Siva, > > apologizing and showing shame for misdeeds; performing japa slowly > > 1,008 times on the holy rudraksha beads; giving of 108 handmade > gifts > > to the temple; performing manual chores at the temple for 108 > hours, > > such as cleaning, making garlands or arranging flowers; bringing > > offerings of cooked food; performing kavadi with miniature spears > > inserted in the flesh; making a pilgrimage by prostrating the > body's > > length again and again, or rolling around a temple. All these and > more > > are major means of atonement after each individual confession has > been > > made. > > > > The keynote in serious cases is asking one's satguru to give a > > specific penance once the problem has been revealed. Once the > satguru > > is asked for penance, the penance must be performed exactly > according > > to his instruction. It should be done with full energy and without > > delay. Deliberate delay or refusal to perform the penance shows the > > devotee has rejected the assistance of the satguru. Further advice > and > > guidance will not be forthcoming until the instruction has been > > fulfilled. Therefore, a devotee in such a condition does not > approach > > the satguru. He may, however, beseech the guru's assistance and > > continued guidance if he is in the process of fulfilling the > penance > > over a period of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 i had an appt. on tues. i love getting acupuncture. the therapist couples it with cranial sacral. it's awesome, really get things flowing. but "spears in the flesh" somehow doesn't ring the same. , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> wrote: > eric, who knows, maybe i did that today, it was an accupunncture appt! > ... here is the QA with Swamiji ... > > Question from Steve Bingoananda : > Vashista's Yoga says, if one's own [possibly adharmic] behavior is > "held at a distance" from consciousness and there is no > identification, the ego-sense does not arise. > > On the other hand, it also seems useful to fully acknowledge one's own > faults and more or less confess them to oneself or Shiva in > meditation. > > Swamiji, what is best, to forget, or to acknowledge, one's own faults > [as they are displayed for all to see in the field of life] or, does > the ideal response change according to circumstances and the state of > one's devotion at the time? > > Swamiji's response: > > Acknowledge, correct, appreciate and forget. > > > > > , "ecjensen_us" <ecjensen_us> > wrote: > > OM NAMAH SIVAYA > > > > so Steve what was Swamiji's answer? was it change the behavior? > > how about the one listed below about the spears inserted in your > > flesh. not cool. i doubt self-mutilation is all that constuctive. > > > > JAI MA > > > > , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> > > wrote: > > > not long ago we asked swamiji about what to do when we find our > > > actions are bad, and he had a very good succinct answer. > > > > > > i asked a baba this same question a few days ago, and he said, it > > was > > > not necessary to do anything, but meditate. > > > > > > here is another answer, the longest, from Sivaya > Subramuniyaswami. > > i > > > found it interesting he lists one activity i heard of Shree Maa > > being > > > engaged in, that is, making 108 gifts. > > > > > > ===== > > > > > > LESSON 121 from Living with Siva > > > > > > Confession And Penance > > > > > > As a mature being in the higher nature, above the muladhara > chakra, > > > ever seeking higher plateaus through sadhana, the Saivite seeks > > peace > > > whenever the mind is troubled. How does such a Saivite confess? > How > > > does one tell of the reactions to misdeeds performed in all > > innocence > > > when but a child in the lower consciousness, living in the lower > > > nature, below the muladhara chakra? How and whom does one tell of > > > misdeeds performed during a lapse of conscience, even when living > a > > > life of dharma? A Saivite confesses to God Siva, the Gods or his > > guru. > > > To confess to God Siva, go to His temple and mentally, psychically > > > place your burden at the holy feet of the murti in the sanctum > > > sanctorum. To confess to Gods Murugan or Ganesha, go to their > > temple > > > and place your confession at their holy feet. Or go to your > satguru > > > and tell him of your inner plight, holding nothing back. This is > > how a > > > Saivite confesses inner burdens as he emerges out of the > > instinctive > > > mind of the lower nature into the purified intellect of the higher > > > nature. > > > > > > Yes, reconciliation is food for the soul. After the soul has > > > unburdened itself of the dross of the lower mind through honest > > > confession, a resolution must be made not to reenter the lower > > states > > > or rekindle the flames of the chakras below the muladhara. To > > achieve > > > reconciliation by apology for hurts caused another, or to atone by > > > performing acts of penance if a long time has passed since the > > apology > > > could have been made and received, is truly food for the soul. > > > > > > There are many forms of penance, prayashchitta, such as 1,008 > > > prostrations before Gods Ganesha, Murugan or Supreme God Siva, > > > apologizing and showing shame for misdeeds; performing japa slowly > > > 1,008 times on the holy rudraksha beads; giving of 108 handmade > > gifts > > > to the temple; performing manual chores at the temple for 108 > > hours, > > > such as cleaning, making garlands or arranging flowers; bringing > > > offerings of cooked food; performing kavadi with miniature spears > > > inserted in the flesh; making a pilgrimage by prostrating the > > body's > > > length again and again, or rolling around a temple. All these and > > more > > > are major means of atonement after each individual confession has > > been > > > made. > > > > > > The keynote in serious cases is asking one's satguru to give a > > > specific penance once the problem has been revealed. Once the > > satguru > > > is asked for penance, the penance must be performed exactly > > according > > > to his instruction. It should be done with full energy and without > > > delay. Deliberate delay or refusal to perform the penance shows > the > > > devotee has rejected the assistance of the satguru. Further > advice > > and > > > guidance will not be forthcoming until the instruction has been > > > fulfilled. Therefore, a devotee in such a condition does not > > approach > > > the satguru. He may, however, beseech the guru's assistance and > > > continued guidance if he is in the process of fulfilling the > > penance > > > over a period of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2005 Report Share Posted August 11, 2005 kavadi he calls it. i wonder. i think some things seem awful to us due to conditioning, like, seeing a sadhu who has kep his right arm raised for 20 years, that kind of thing. but why someone does something, and what it looks like ... might be 2 different things ... , "ecjensen_us" <ecjensen_us> wrote: > i had an appt. on tues. i love getting acupuncture. the therapist > couples it with cranial sacral. it's awesome, really get things > flowing. but "spears in the flesh" somehow doesn't ring the same. > > , "Steve Connor" <sconnor@a...> > wrote: > > eric, who knows, maybe i did that today, it was an accupunncture > appt! > > ... here is the QA with Swamiji ... > > > > Question from Steve Bingoananda : > > Vashista's Yoga says, if one's own [possibly adharmic] behavior is > > "held at a distance" from consciousness and there is no > > identification, the ego-sense does not arise. > > > > On the other hand, it also seems useful to fully acknowledge one's > own > > faults and more or less confess them to oneself or Shiva in > > meditation. > > > > Swamiji, what is best, to forget, or to acknowledge, one's own > faults > > [as they are displayed for all to see in the field of life] or, > does > > the ideal response change according to circumstances and the state > of > > one's devotion at the time? > > > > Swamiji's response: > > > > Acknowledge, correct, appreciate and forget. > > > > > > > > > > , "ecjensen_us" > <ecjensen_us> > > wrote: > > > OM NAMAH SIVAYA > > > > > > so Steve what was Swamiji's answer? was it change the > behavior? > > > how about the one listed below about the spears inserted in your > > > flesh. not cool. i doubt self-mutilation is all that > constuctive. > > > > > > JAI MA > > > > > > , "Steve Connor" > <sconnor@a...> > > > wrote: > > > > not long ago we asked swamiji about what to do when we find our > > > > actions are bad, and he had a very good succinct answer. > > > > > > > > i asked a baba this same question a few days ago, and he said, > it > > > was > > > > not necessary to do anything, but meditate. > > > > > > > > here is another answer, the longest, from Sivaya > > Subramuniyaswami. > > > i > > > > found it interesting he lists one activity i heard of Shree > Maa > > > being > > > > engaged in, that is, making 108 gifts. > > > > > > > > ===== > > > > > > > > LESSON 121 from Living with Siva > > > > > > > > Confession And Penance > > > > > > > > As a mature being in the higher nature, above the muladhara > > chakra, > > > > ever seeking higher plateaus through sadhana, the Saivite > seeks > > > peace > > > > whenever the mind is troubled. How does such a Saivite confess? > > How > > > > does one tell of the reactions to misdeeds performed in all > > > innocence > > > > when but a child in the lower consciousness, living in the > lower > > > > nature, below the muladhara chakra? How and whom does one tell > of > > > > misdeeds performed during a lapse of conscience, even when > living > > a > > > > life of dharma? A Saivite confesses to God Siva, the Gods or > his > > > guru. > > > > To confess to God Siva, go to His temple and mentally, > psychically > > > > place your burden at the holy feet of the murti in the sanctum > > > > sanctorum. To confess to Gods Murugan or Ganesha, go to their > > > temple > > > > and place your confession at their holy feet. Or go to your > > satguru > > > > and tell him of your inner plight, holding nothing back. This > is > > > how a > > > > Saivite confesses inner burdens as he emerges out of the > > > instinctive > > > > mind of the lower nature into the purified intellect of the > higher > > > > nature. > > > > > > > > Yes, reconciliation is food for the soul. After the soul has > > > > unburdened itself of the dross of the lower mind through honest > > > > confession, a resolution must be made not to reenter the lower > > > states > > > > or rekindle the flames of the chakras below the muladhara. To > > > achieve > > > > reconciliation by apology for hurts caused another, or to > atone by > > > > performing acts of penance if a long time has passed since the > > > apology > > > > could have been made and received, is truly food for the soul. > > > > > > > > There are many forms of penance, prayashchitta, such as 1,008 > > > > prostrations before Gods Ganesha, Murugan or Supreme God Siva, > > > > apologizing and showing shame for misdeeds; performing japa > slowly > > > > 1,008 times on the holy rudraksha beads; giving of 108 > handmade > > > gifts > > > > to the temple; performing manual chores at the temple for 108 > > > hours, > > > > such as cleaning, making garlands or arranging flowers; > bringing > > > > offerings of cooked food; performing kavadi with miniature > spears > > > > inserted in the flesh; making a pilgrimage by prostrating the > > > body's > > > > length again and again, or rolling around a temple. All these > and > > > more > > > > are major means of atonement after each individual confession > has > > > been > > > > made. > > > > > > > > The keynote in serious cases is asking one's satguru to give a > > > > specific penance once the problem has been revealed. Once the > > > satguru > > > > is asked for penance, the penance must be performed exactly > > > according > > > > to his instruction. It should be done with full energy and > without > > > > delay. Deliberate delay or refusal to perform the penance shows > > the > > > > devotee has rejected the assistance of the satguru. Further > > advice > > > and > > > > guidance will not be forthcoming until the instruction has been > > > > fulfilled. Therefore, a devotee in such a condition does not > > > approach > > > > the satguru. He may, however, beseech the guru's assistance and > > > > continued guidance if he is in the process of fulfilling the > > > penance > > > > over a period of time. 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