Attention and analysis

[Guest guest]

Dear Brian,

 

As always, I read (present tense) your comments with interest, and,

if I may, I would like to add a point of view, not to subtract from

much of what you say, but perhaps add another layer to it:

 

The root of the active mind is attention, and thoughts are branches,

tendrals, bots-if you like-, or ripples growing, assembling as forms,

or issuing out of that root in some fashion. The essential point is

that the root is the source of, and the power source of, the

thoughts/branches, etc.

 

Patajali, the master spiritual psychologist of old India, refers to

thoughts as vrittis, which derives from a word meaning circle. It can

also mean whirlpool, and, by extension, and, with western psychology

and its discovery of neuroses in mind, vicious circles. Patanjali

defines yoga at the outset of his classic treatise on yoga and samadhi

as: yogash chitti vritti nirodhah, i.e. Yoga is the destruction of the

vrittis (thoughts) in the mind. And this has been the classic

approach, albeit taking countless forms, to spiritually (and certainly

samadhi) in the East.

 

The modern western approach to problen solving has been analysis: to

analysis the problem, find a solution, apply the solution, and go on

to something else. This works well if you are building a bridge, but

not always so well in the realm of the mind, as also with attempts to

reach Spirit through the mind. Freud discovered the muladhara, and

our culture is stuck in the whirlpool of violence, sex, and greed as a

result. Why?

 

Attention is the root of thoughts in the mind, and it also feeds

them whatever power they have. If, for any reason, we become fixed on

a thought-or on thought generically-as a problem to analyze and

thereby solve, we set up a vicious circle whereby attention is placed

on the thought, which feeds the thought, it grows bigger, compelling

yet more attention, etc. As an example from the scriptures, and a

critique of this process as a viable sadhana by which to realize God,

there is the Raktabija episode in the Chandi.

 

Another approach, and, I believe a better one, is to starve the

thought, the bot, the "problem", etc., by placing attention on

something more wholesome. You said recently something to the effect

that the mantra is the best, or most effective, practice. The

practice of repeating the mantra as a Name of God is merely placing

attention repeatedly, with nothing in between, on the thought of God.

This, in turn, would set up a very profitable "vicious" circle out of

which would spring many thoughts, bots, whirlpools, etc., of a Divine

relevance: little golden angels to guide us and help us upward in our

journey to God.

 

Yours as ever, with respect and affection,

 

Tanmaya

[Guest guest]

"Attention is the root of thoughts in the mind"

 

Dear Friend I beg to differ 'Attention' is not the root of thoughts in

the mind, wrong Understanding is. The use for analysis is to have

right understanding. The use of mantra is to concentrate our

attention, which has been scattered and when we do this through things

we love(like chanting a mantra of the God we love)and when we have

attained this keen attention we go back and focus it on the very

thought we have run away from and this concentrated attention combined

with analysis sets us free from these thoughts. There is no freedom

without understanding ever and understanding is a result of analysis

till the very end when we give even that up but that is the last to

go. Chanting without analysis and understanding is just leads to a

hypnotic dream world not freedom. People with keen attention run away

from analysis because they are not yet ready to face their thoughts

and analyse them but fool themselves into a safe mindset with flawed

analysis and understanding. What is needed is a mantra or technique to

sharpen our attention and courage to face our thoughts when we do this

we see that thoughts are in their essence wholesome and filled with bliss.

[Guest guest]

, "jaishreemaa" <jaishreemaa>

wrote:

>

> "Attention is the root of thoughts in the mind"

 

Dear friend,

 

It certainly looks like we do disagree, but let me be as clear as

possible about what I am saying so we can be sure what the points of

disagreement are.

 

In the sea of the mindstuff, the chitta, we can place our "point

conscious", or our attention, wherever we please. And, wherever that

may be, ripples of energy, vrittis or thoughts, will begin to arise in

the chitta at that "place". We can borrow from the iconography that

we are familiar with and say that it is like Kali dancing on Shivas

breast. It is in this sense that I said that attention is the root of

thought. (There is another sense in which ahamkara, the "I

thought"-Mahisha if you like-is said to be the root of all other

thoughts, but, in the last analysis, that too is only a thought, and

conscious attention is senior to that as well.)

 

As thoughts arise in the mind, another faculty of mind is activated

which discriminates between thoughts based on their relative value to

the individual. That faculty is called buddhi, the discriminating

faculty of mind. A buddhi sharpened and purified by sadhana leads to

bodha, knowledge, wisdom, awakening, which would result, finally, in a

Buddha, an Awakened One of spiritual understanding.

 

Thus, thoughts arise from attention; buddhi discriminates among them;

and this leads to understanding. We approach "right understanding" to

the degree that buddhi is purified and sharpened by our sadhana.

 

In the Indian tradition, trustworthy analysis is understood to be a

product of purified buddhi, which results from sadhana. Thus, if an

Indian person is interested is determining the validity of a persons

ideas, he looks to the character of that person. In the West, this

would seem unrelated and absurd.

 

In the West, "analysis" is very confused thing. In philosophy it

often amounts to little more than speculation; some do it better and

some less. Science is more dependable because of the scientific

method, which produces consistent and duplicatable results. However,

what we do with those results is guided by buddhi, and the collective

buddhi of the West has not been purified by sadhana.

 

Your point about chanting without right understanding leading one into

a hypnotic dreamworld devoid of freedom is not correct. Application

of a mantra is calling on God by Name. This places attention directly

on the God-thought which results in purified buddhi, which produces

right understanding, which leads, to Buddhahood. There have been

countless saints, in both East and West, who have gone the whole way

in spiritual life only with unshakable faith that their Mantra is a

Name of God, and letting It carry them to the goal.

 

We dont really have to "face out thoughts" at any time, beginning or

end of sadhana. Thoughts are just ripples in the chitta; they

dissipate soon after we withdraw our attention from them. (This is not

true of the emotional body however, emotions are a different energy

system, and deep emotional scarring needs to be worked through.)

 

One final point, correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to see in what

you have said, and some of Brians comments, and some others as well,

the belief that it is in some way a part of sadhana to delve into the

muladhara, or the unconscious mind, to find Truth. If so, it is

absolutely wrong; I cant softpedal that one. In the Kaliyuga,

everything is exactly upside down, and this is a prime, and deadly

example. The belief that one can find Truth in the Muladhara instead

of the sahasrara, is the ultimate perversion.

 

We do not find Truth by poking around in the unconscious (whether by

means of meditation, or hypnosis, or drugs) we find samskaras!

Samskaras are huge energy systems whose function is to drive a

lifetime-or a whole string of lifetimes. To inadvertently bump into

one of those can knock you off your spiritual path for a very long

time to come. I repeat, its the ultimate perversion of the Kali Yuga

to teach spiritual aspirants to enter the unconscious in their

earnest, and innocent search for Truth. And it also underscores the

absolute need for a Guru.

 

Whew! That was a long one. I hope I was able to disagree without

being too disagreeable---or too preachy. Its just that I feel

strongly about some of these points; and I know that many have gone

off the path by disregarding some of them.

 

With deep respect and affection,

 

Tanmaya. I

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Friend I beg to differ 'Attention' is not the root of thoughts in

> the mind, wrong Understanding is. The use for analysis is to have

> right understanding. The use of mantra is to concentrate our

> attention, which has been scattered and when we do this through things

> we love(like chanting a mantra of the God we love)and when we have

> attained this keen attention we go back and focus it on the very

> thought we have run away from and this concentrated attention combined

> with analysis sets us free from these thoughts. There is no freedom

> without understanding ever and understanding is a result of analysis

> till the very end when we give even that up but that is the last to

> go. Chanting without analysis and understanding is just leads to a

> hypnotic dream world not freedom. People with keen attention run away

> from analysis because they are not yet ready to face their thoughts

> and analyse them but fool themselves into a safe mindset with flawed

> analysis and understanding. What is needed is a mantra or technique to

> sharpen our attention and courage to face our thoughts when we do this

> we see that thoughts are in their essence wholesome and filled with

bliss.

>

[Guest guest]

Attention(Purush) - Cannot give rise to anything because it is simply

is. But if your definition of attention is based on 'the wrong

identification that you are seperate from the other' - identifying -

then only analysis will lead to viveka or true discrimination.

 

To say that mantra will lead to freedom and there is no need for

analysis is like saying I put bread in my toaster and get toast - it

works but the toaster was there in the first place because of

analysis. Then you may say I just proved your point, but not so fast

because my grandmaa will not go near it because she is afraid that she

will be electrocuted, so we need a certain amount of analysis to have

faith in a Guru or Mantra.

 

To say 'The belief that one can find Truth in the Muladhara instead

of the sahasrara, is the ultimate perversion' is based on fear because

meditations on sahasrara without right understanding of what muladhara

stands for will only end in failure or a perverted view of life lived

in tension not freedom. And only analysis will lead you to that

freedom no amount of enjoyment or running away will work.

 

What you seem to be against is analysis which tries to defend a point

of view and doesn't seek the truth, so analysis itself is not wrong

because it is just the action of the Buddhi or intellect, but lack of

courage or vairagya to seek the truth. In that sense whether a man is

chanting a powerfull mantra or using analysis without

vairagya(courage) he is bound to fail.

 

In the end without Viveka(right discrimination) and Vairagya(courage)

there is no Jnana(Wisdom or right understanding). And a simple mind a

simple analysis to be free, a complex mind needs complex analysis to

be free, a confused mind needs compassion to be free, and a deluded

mind needs a kick in the butt to be free.