Question for the group on Truth

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

I have been thinking this question over a lot recently and would like

to put it before you.

 

Why is it so important to speak and live the truth as we know it? Why

is it so important not to lie ?

 

I would love to know your well reasoned as well as intuitive responses.

 

Jai Maa

Nanda

[Guest guest]

>From a Chinese fortune cookie: "...because there's less to remember."

As we know Memory is one of the asuras and there's a sign over the cage

around my mind that says, "Please don't feed the asuras."

 

More seriously:

 

The path that She has ordained for the spiritual individual in this

incarnation of the universe is a pathway of inner epiphany. The way She

has created for us to exit the confines of mind involve a treacherous

walk along rocks in a swift flowing river.

 

We call these rocks truth, but ultimately as we find new truths on which

to stand we must leave the old truths behind or we get stuck. To keep

moving, we believe -- quite realistically -- that that the the new truth

is "higher" than the old truth, but in reality, it is merely a pathway

on which we walk to exit the confines of mind. Once we exit our mental

conditioning, all truth merges into the one.

 

One cannot realize God without walking on this pathway. And this pathway

is composed of truth.

 

It is possible to know the truth and live a lie. There are masters of

this color, but, during kaliyuga is it much easier to live the example

of the path on which you walk, rather than live its opposite.

 

And, to help others walk their truth pathway, we must set an example. It

is not possible to set an example of inner truth while living an outer

lie. All masters of those colors get caught, sooner or later.

 

A story:

 

Because of my mother I did not know about lies until I was pretty old. I

learned of them by telling one.

 

I was seven or eight years old. My mother, sister and I were visiting

the corner store where the penny candy flowed like milk off a Shiva

Lingam. I love candy and I love gum. Even though my mother let me buy

some candy, there was gum on the counter top which I realized I could

surreptitiously slide off the counter and put in my pocket. In front of

the nice lady who was ringing up our stuff, when she turned her head, I

nabbed a piece and put it in my pocket. I did not get caught.

 

When we got out to the car. I felt so triumphant. I reached into my

pocket, grabbed the gum, opened it and put it in my mouth.

 

My sister yelled, "You bought him gum but not me!"

 

I said, "Nuh UH! A friend at school gave me this gum."

 

My mother, bless her innocence, believed me.

 

Not even my sister realized I had taken it, but she was four. If she had

been a bit older, I'm sure she would have put it together...

 

Stealing it didn't make me feel bad. But lying to protect myself ...

that felt awful.

 

Because of this incident, at that young age I decided to be truthful.

 

However, I never admitted to stealing the gum.

 

Ultimately, we must be sadhus. And truth is simply much more efficient.

Lies cause endless trouble, for even the greatest of masters.

 

That's the way She designed the universe. Lies make for trouble always.

Truth only makes trouble when she wants to test our resolve to be truthful.

 

Great question Nanda.

 

 

 

Nanda wrote:

> Dear All,

> I have been thinking this question over a lot recently and would like

> to put it before you.

>

> Why is it so important to speak and live the truth as we know it? Why

> is it so important not to lie ?

>

> I would love to know your well reasoned as well as intuitive responses.

>

> Jai Maa

> Nanda

>

------

>

>

> * Visit your group "

> <>" on the web.

>

> *

>

> <?subject=Un>

>

> * Terms of

> Service <>.

>

>

> ------

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Nanda,

I have come to believe that in general, lies are poison, and I think we

all know this deep in our hearts. (Okay, I will occasionally and

reluctantly tell "white" lies, or rather, tell less than the whole

truth if that is what it takes to avoid hurting someone unnecessarily).

I also think that unless there is a very good reason not to tell the

truth, the lie becomes karma within us that costs us energy on an

ongoing basis. It weakens us. Furthermore, it takes energy and thought

to prevent people from knowing that what we have said is an untruth. We

have to keep our story straight, and that takes work. Who wants to be

invested in that. Next, it is my experience that every choice we make,

makes us stronger or weaker. Lies make us weaker. It's like eating when

you don't need to. Or falling into a malicious action. What we do,

cannot be escaped. Finally, I believe that whatever we do, goes out

into the universe, even if no one else ever consciously apprehends our

action. Do we want to set an example like this? Also, do we want to

live in a universe that we have corrupted? This is most graphically

illustrated in marriage. Even if the partners are in a nonsexual

marriage, their auras intermingle. If one partner transgresses, the

aura of the other is polluted at least a little, and both partners get

to live with it.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Shaktiprasad

 

, "Nanda" <chandimaakijai> wrote:

>

> Dear All,

> I have been thinking this question over a lot recently and would like

> to put it before you.

>

> Why is it so important to speak and live the truth as we know it? Why

> is it so important not to lie ?

>

> I would love to know your well reasoned as well as intuitive

responses.

>

> Jai Maa

> Nanda

>

[Guest guest]

To lie is to betray the trust of the other person. This is the

result of the attitude of deception. We play a secret game in our

head against others, congratulating ourselves on our cleverness when

we succeed in our deception. We are smarter than those we deceive;

such a boost to the ego: they cannot see that we have outwitted

them.

In this Kali Yuga which is all I know; what could be more valuable

than trust? If you constantly or habitually betray that trust by

decieving others; they will start to avoid you; or they will simply

not treat you in the same way. They will not value what you say

since it cannot be relied upon.

You set yourself apart from others.

It is an anti-social behavior.

Living in truth is another matter.

I believe that truth is not thought.

Truth is the silence.

 

 

, "Nanda" <chandimaakijai>

wrote:

>

> Dear All,

> I have been thinking this question over a lot recently and would

like

> to put it before you.

>

> Why is it so important to speak and live the truth as we know it?

Why

> is it so important not to lie ?

>

> I would love to know your well reasoned as well as intuitive

responses.

>

> Jai Maa

> Nanda

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Nanda,

 

my thoughts: to tell lies or live a lie always serves the ego and its

concerns of name and fame. Every time we tell a lie, it takes us

further away from our goal: to love and know God, our true Identity,

who IS truth.

 

with love,

Henny

 

 

 

 

, "Nanda" <chandimaakijai>

wrote:

>

> Dear All,

> I have been thinking this question over a lot recently and would

like

> to put it before you.

>

> Why is it so important to speak and live the truth as we know it?

Why

> is it so important not to lie ?

>

> I would love to know your well reasoned as well as intuitive

responses.

>

> Jai Maa

> Nanda

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Nanda,

 

Thanks for this all important question. I very much like Henny's

answer. Becoming one with God is our goal and since God is Truth to

be one with Him/Her we must live and speak truth.

 

Living and speaking truth is the only way to live a Sattvic life.

 

Here is a story on truth -

 

One day the highly learned sage and great story teller, Suta

Pauranika, came to the forest retreat of Naimisaranya, where the Rsi

Saunaka was practicing tapasya along with many other munis. Seeing

the arrival of Suta, the munis offered him a seat with great delight

and anticipation. When he was comfortably composed, they asked him

this question:

 

"By what spiritual discipline can people of the Kali Yuga develop

their devotion to God?"

 

Suta responded, "One time Narada Muni asked this same question of

Lord Visnu, and I will share with you the answer he received. Narada

had been touring the earth, and he was filled with extreme compassion

for the plight of mankind, who were constantly being perplexed with

various difficulties because of their bondage to egotism and

attachment. Thereafter, Narada went to Vaikunta, the home of Lord

Visnu, and sang a great hymn of praise.

 

Visnu, being pleased with his devotion, requested, "What is the

purpose of your visit here? What is the cause of your anxiety,

Narada, and what can I do to relieve you of your burden? Please tell

me all of this."

 

Narada replied, "Oh Lord, I have just come from the world of mortals,

where I saw all life suffering constant difficulties, taking birth

time and time again in various wombs because of their foolish karma

born of ignorant attachments. They are having such difficulty

speaking and acting in truth, and almost all are addicted to telling

lies. As a result they are never at peace, and are always perplexed

by anxiety. Being moved to compassion for them, Oh Lord, I have come

to request that you teach a simple discipline, the practice of which

will make their miseries come to an end. Lord, please consent to

teach me."

 

The story goes on to say that the Compassionate Lord began to

describe to Lord Narayana, the Consciousness of Eternal Truth,

worship of which, when conducted with complete efficiency, grants

comfort, pleasure, and liberation, otherwise self-realization.

However, in performing this worship, the Compassionate Lord directed

that one should "rejoice in the vow to make Truth one's highest

deity. Those who will do so in the Kali Yuga will attain perfection,

and will dwell in peace and prosperity doubt."

 

Om Visnu Om Visnu Om Visnu

 

 

Note: This story and the practice for speaking truth can be found in

the Visnu Puja - The Thousand Names of Visnu and The Satya Narayana

Vrat by Swami Satyananda Saraswati and Swami Vittalananda Saraswati -

available at the Devi Mandir's bookstore.

[Guest guest]

Dear Nanda

 

Intuitive response: Cause this was Neemkaroli Baba's (Maharajji) main

teaching: "Love everybody, serve everybody, SPEAK THE TRUTH and

remember God!" And since Maharajji means a lot to me, speaking the

truth means a lot to me, hard sadhana that it can be.

 

Well (?) reasoned response: "Truth" for me is one of the names of God.

It is a quality of God. It is the being of God. And aspiring unity the

name is essential and performing the sadhana that is expressed by the

name.

 

I am sure that living in truthfullness is such a noble goal that human

beings should strive for this divine quality.

 

And I pray that I may not be tested in too hard a way to find out

wether I shall be able to always follow this path no matter what the

situation at hand is. Cause you know, there are tests for truth that

can cost your life. And who of us can say now how she/he would react

in such a situation.

 

D

[Guest guest]

Namaste Beloved Family,

 

In Maa and Swamiji's book about Thakur, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa,

there is a part where He says that it does not matter what

austerities you do in Kali Yuga - if you do NOT hold on to Truth, you

will not reach God. In numerous cases, He reminds people to do what

they said they would do or they would become liars.

 

Shree Maa says the same thing. Once She was saying this and i was

thinking "How can we hold on to truth in this manner?"

 

Maa said that we can hold on to truth by being more conscious.

 

I understood that as meaning -- if we are more alert in all we say,

we are less likely to promise to do things we won't or can't do and

less likely to distort the past.

 

At another time, i heard Maa saying that something like this --

Unclean people tend to be unhappy as lower beings (or something like

that -- sorry i don't remember Her exact words) become happy to see

unclean people and hang out near them. They make the unclean people

sad.

>From this i understood -- even to be happy we have to be clean. What

is cleanliness? One is external cleanliness, like being organized

outside, taking a bath, making our surroundings beautiful. Other is

internal cleanliness -- What is internal cleanliness? It is TRUTH.

When we live in truth, we have peace in our hearts and in our minds -

MahaLakshmi lives in us and with us!

 

Maa says "Be True. Say what you mean and do what you say. If you are

true, you will be without fear. If you conscience is clear, your

heart will be silent." Jai MAA!

 

On a personal note -- i had promised our beloved sister Nanda to

write these stories many months ago, and am so grateful now to her

and all of you for this opportunity to write -- Beloved Thakur,

please don't call me a liar! I am feeling so happy and relieved - it

is nice to be truthful!

 

I pray to Divine Mother to live in our hearts as a freshly bloomed,

pure white flower and smile in our eyes as Pure Light and dance in

our lipe as Her Names, the Embodiment of Eternal Truth!

 

Jai MAA!! Jai SWAMIJI!!!

 

yours lovingly,

 

ramya

[Guest guest]

,

[Ramya, actually] :<) "srini_sadhu" <srini_sadhu> wrote:

 

"I pray to Divine Mother to live in our hearts as a freshly bloomed,

pure white flower and smile in our eyes as Pure Light and dance in

our lips as Her Names, the Embodiment of Eternal Truth!

Jai MAA!! Jai SWAMIJI!!!

yours lovingly,

ramya

 

Namaste Mother Ramya ji!

 

You have written Pure Divine Poetry! Thank-you! :<)

 

Truth is God...Untruth is Maya..Truth is the Royal Golden Road

leading to The Consciousness of Infinite Goodness...Untruth is the

unkempt dirty road leading to the illusion of duality...

Jai Maa! Jai Swamiji! Jai Thakur Ramakrishna Deva!

muktimaa

 

Oh Maa,"Lead us from Untruth towards the Truth,

Lead us from darkness towards the Light,

Lead us from death to Immortality!

Om Shanti, Shanti, Shantihi!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>

> Namaste Beloved Family,

>

> In Maa and Swamiji's book about Thakur, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa,

> there is a part where He says that it does not matter what

> austerities you do in Kali Yuga - if you do NOT hold on to Truth,

you

> will not reach God. In numerous cases, He reminds people to do what

> they said they would do or they would become liars.

>

> Shree Maa says the same thing. Once She was saying this and i was

> thinking "How can we hold on to truth in this manner?"

>

> Maa said that we can hold on to truth by being more conscious.

>

> I understood that as meaning -- if we are more alert in all we say,

> we are less likely to promise to do things we won't or can't do and

> less likely to distort the past.

>

> At another time, i heard Maa saying that something like this --

> Unclean people tend to be unhappy as lower beings (or something

like

> that -- sorry i don't remember Her exact words) become happy to see

> unclean people and hang out near them. They make the unclean people

> sad.

>

> From this i understood -- even to be happy we have to be clean.

What

> is cleanliness? One is external cleanliness, like being organized

> outside, taking a bath, making our surroundings beautiful. Other is

> internal cleanliness -- What is internal cleanliness? It is TRUTH.

> When we live in truth, we have peace in our hearts and in our

minds -

> MahaLakshmi lives in us and with us!

>

> Maa says "Be True. Say what you mean and do what you say. If you

are

> true, you will be without fear. If you conscience is clear, your

> heart will be silent." Jai MAA!

>

> On a personal note -- i had promised our beloved sister Nanda to

> write these stories many months ago, and am so grateful now to her

> and all of you for this opportunity to write -- Beloved Thakur,

> please don't call me a liar! I am feeling so happy and relieved -

it

> is nice to be truthful!

>

> I pray to Divine Mother to live in our hearts as a freshly bloomed,

> pure white flower and smile in our eyes as Pure Light and dance in

> our lipe as Her Names, the Embodiment of Eternal Truth!

>

> Jai MAA!! Jai SWAMIJI!!!

>

> yours lovingly,

>

> ramya

>

[Guest guest]

Dear devotees,

Thank you for your discussion on truth. Here is a hypothetical

situation - how will a truthful sadhak recommend the situation be

handled?

 

A poor family of three, the man, his wife and a baby. The man

is (assume) a drunkard. The wife has a little money to buy

some food for the child. The man asks the wife if she has any

money so that he can go out and drink some more. What is the

wife to do ? Admit that she has the money or say a white lie

and in that way keep the money to buy food for the child ?

 

Thank you in advance for your responses.

 

Jai Maa

Vasantha

[Guest guest]

FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

[Guest guest]

Its always possible to contrive circumstances where lying is a necessary

thing.

 

The point is not about lying and its not about telling the truth; its

about living the truth.

 

To proceed on our spiritual path we must admit internally to our selves

all the truths of everything that goes on within ourselves. (And offer

them to Her FIRE: OM AIM HRIM KLIM CHAMUNDAYE VICHE SWAHA!)

 

Outwardly, reality is an illusion. Lies, truth, and all the grey area in

between are all subjective.

 

Our hearts are the only place where lies and truth are absolute. It is

there we must be truthful, it is there we worship God best by seeing

ourselves for who we are and by developing a desire to be truthful,

respectful, and proper devotees of God. When we see the horrible truth,

when we see a part of ourselves that is unworthy of God's consciousness,

we must cast it into Chandi's fiery breath.

 

As we respect the divinity within ourselves and within others we will

become more truthful outwardly, and circumstances such as your example

will cease to occur.

 

The story I posted exemplifies this. When the Suryananda first picked up

the maiden named truth, she was hurt and unable to carry herself,

symbolizing Suryananda's treatment of her up to that point. For whatever

reason, he and she were in a bad part of town, in a rough neck of the

woods and times were very hard. But as he devotedly carried her she lead

him to where things were much better, safer and where food and shelter

could be found more easily. It was long and arduous, but obviously well

worth it. For ultimately his kingdom was returned to him. That is to say

he became enlightened.

 

Most of the time to prevent ourselves from lying we can simply be quiet.

I find when someone prompts me to tell a lie to them for their apparent

benefit, it is usually best to change the subject or just say nothing.

 

In this case, the woman could merely walk away. Far far away.

 

Vasantha wrote:

> Dear devotees,

> Thank you for your discussion on truth. Here is a hypothetical

> situation - how will a truthful sadhak recommend the situation be

> handled?

>

> A poor family of three, the man, his wife and a baby. The man

> is (assume) a drunkard. The wife has a little money to buy

> some food for the child. The man asks the wife if she has any

> money so that he can go out and drink some more. What is the

> wife to do ? Admit that she has the money or say a white lie

> and in that way keep the money to buy food for the child ?

>

> Thank you in advance for your responses.

>

> Jai Maa

> Vasantha

------

>

>

> * Visit your group "

> <>" on the web.

>

> *

>

> <?subject=Un>

>

> * Terms of

> Service <>.

>

>

> ------

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Karen and Brian,

Thank you very much for your responses to my question.

May truth alone triumph ! Satyameva Jayate !

Jai Shree Maa

Jai Swamiji

Vasantha

[Guest guest]

Greetings,

 

I would answer - I have no money for you, I have only money for

children and for food.

 

That is telling the truth - as it is specific - IMHO

 

I would do almost anything for my own children and without question

any child in the world who needed something I felt I could give.

 

I believe I have so much to love to offer and material wealth in this

coutnry of Canada where we live that I would open my home and kitchen

to all who needed it.

 

I have given much thought to 3rd world doption also.

I could not forgive myself to know a mother like me, who would give up

a child due to poverty and starvation.

 

I do not think I would be helping the children by adopting them, but

If I help the mother and the community all the children will eat.

 

Melissa

mama to miracle twins 25months, 11yrs and 13yrs

 

, "Vasantha" <vasantha_mallan>

wrote:

>

> Dear devotees,

> Thank you for your discussion on truth. Here is a hypothetical

> situation - how will a truthful sadhak recommend the situation be

> handled?

>

> A poor family of three, the man, his wife and a baby. The man

> is (assume) a drunkard. The wife has a little money to buy

> some food for the child. The man asks the wife if she has any

> money so that he can go out and drink some more. What is the

> wife to do ? Admit that she has the money or say a white lie

> and in that way keep the money to buy food for the child ?

>

> Thank you in advance for your responses.

>

> Jai Maa

> Vasantha

>

[Guest guest]

The way the question is put "The man asks the wife if she has any

money SO THAT HE CAN GO OUT AND DRINK SOME MORE", the only answer

required is "NO".

 

No justification need be supplied after that.

 

That way, it avoids immedaite unpleasantness evn though it may raise

some problems in the long-term (when the husband finds that the wife

actually had some money AND he will have forgotten the actual question

he asked), but hopefully the wife will be smart to deal with that

situation too. .

 

Jai Ma!

 

 

, "Vasantha" <vasantha_mallan>

wrote:

>

> Dear devotees,

> Thank you for your discussion on truth. Here is a hypothetical

> situation - how will a truthful sadhak recommend the situation be

> handled?

>

> A poor family of three, the man, his wife and a baby. The man

> is (assume) a drunkard. The wife has a little money to buy

> some food for the child. The man asks the wife if she has any

> money so that he can go out and drink some more. What is the

> wife to do ? Admit that she has the money or say a white lie

> and in that way keep the money to buy food for the child ?

>

> Thank you in advance for your responses.

>

> Jai Maa

> Vasantha

>

[Guest guest]

-Melissa To:

Subject: Re: Question for

the group on TruthFri, 25 Nov 2005 21:42:27 -0000Greetings, I

would answer - I have no money for you, I have only money forchildren

and for food.That is telling the truth - as it is specific - IMHOI

would do almost anything for my own children and without questionany

child in the world who needed something I felt I could give.I believe

I have so much to love to offer and material wealth in thiscoutnry of

Canada where we live that I would open my home and kitchento all who

needed it.I have given much thought to 3rd world doption also.I could

not forgive myself to know a mother like me, who would give upa child

due to poverty and starvation.I do not think I would be helping the

children by adopting them, butIf I help the mother and the community

all the children will eat.Melissamama to miracle twins 25months,

11yrs and 13yrs, "Vasantha"

<vasantha_mallan>wrote:>> Dear devotees,> Thank you for your

discussion on truth. Here is a hypothetical > situation - how will a

truthful sadhak recommend the situation be > handled?> > A poor

family of three, the man, his wife and a baby. The man > is (assume)

a drunkard. The wife has a little money to buy > some food for the

child. The man asks the wife if she has any > money so that he can go

out and drink some more. What is the > wife to do ? Admit that she has

the money or say a white lie > and in that way keep the money to buy

food for the child ?> > Thank you in advance for your responses.> >

Jai Maa> Vasantha>

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