To n_mallen about Shree Maa's question 2 - Devotion

[Guest guest]

n_mallen posted:

"What is devotion?""Devotion" always implies there is a dual mind. It

just means ancontinued attention to the other. The more obsessive the

attention getsthe easier it is to ignore the body. Most acts of

emotional or physicalviolence or abusive acts are a result of a

devotion to or obsessiontowards anti-social or imature ideas. So,

whenever we talk of devotionthe "GOAL" is the most important criteria

and to have clear andworthwhile goal we need Knowledge or Jnana. If we

lack it we should seeka Guru or Teacher who will help us to formulate

a goal that isworthwhile. So the best kind of devotion is a devotion

or obsessiontowards finding out the best goal there is and

surrendering everythingelse towards achieving it.

Dear n mallen ~ did Ramakrishna write this? If he did, I am sorry, but

I do not agree. In my experience devotion is that which leads to

kindness, "true" love, dedication to the goal, etc. Obsession, on the

other hand may be positive or negative, but I believe devotion

supercedes duality. Devotion brings us, finally, into union with the

Beloved. Obsession, which may or may not lead to anti-social

behavior, is something very different for me. One might consider an

artist or musician as obsessive ... I have experienced this myself,

when I am unable to put down my guitar or rest my voice or my mind

until the song that is awaiting birth comes forth.

I have also experienced the kind of obsession where someone who claims

to "love" yo trey is actually claiming you as an object to be treated

in any manner that (s)he determines.

 

To me, "true devotion" is love and respect and whatever ways these

behaviors might be expressed in order to let our gurus, or God/dess,

or even our own earthly beloveds, know how much we care for them. I

use the words "true devotion" in the same way that the words "true

wealth" are used to describe Laksmi's purpose. What makes it "true"

is the complete lack of selfish motives. What makes it "true" is that

it is an outflowing expression of grace.

 

Out of curiosity, I looked up devotion in the dictionary and was

interested to see what was written there.

 

The first definition was: "Ardent, often selfless affection and

dedication, as to a person or principle."

 

The second was: "Religious ardor or zeal; piety."

 

The third was two-fold:

"a. An act of religious observance or prayer, especially when private. Often used in the plural.

b. devotions Prayers or religious texts: a book of devotions."

 

Fourth was "The act of devoting or the state of being devoted."

 

So, what interested me about this was that devotion was described as a

noun as well as an adjective, something a person has or shows. And

devotion was also presented as a verb, an action. I was especially

interested in the 4th definition in which devotion was described as a

state of being. I was also very interested to see that, where devotion

was described as a type of action, that one of the examples given was

"bhakti." And I also felt that the subsequent definition of bhakti

was very well given: "(Hinduism) loving devotion to a deity leading

to salvation and Nirvana; open to all persons independent of caste or

sex"...

 

Though a case could be made for devotion falling over the cliff into

obsession with its resultant anti-social behavior. But then, to me,

it would no longer be devotion. Devotion by its very nature draws one

into a selfless relationship with regards to whomever or whatever one

is devoted. Jai Maa , Jai Swamiji ~ Linda

[Guest guest]

We are probably saying the the same thing - the Goal of your devotion

is what it is all about. I accept the attitude of surrender, sense of

joy etc. but every kind of love has these elements, what makes one

love different from the other - the GOAL.

 

Jai Sri Ramakrishna!

 

, nierika wrote:

>

> n_mallen posted:

>

> "What is devotion?"

>

> "Devotion" always implies there is a dual mind. It just means an

> continued attention to the other. The more obsessive the attention gets

> the easier it is to ignore the body. Most acts of emotional or physical

> violence or abusive acts are a result of a devotion to or obsession

> towards anti-social or imature ideas. So, whenever we talk of devotion

> the "GOAL" is the most important criteria and to have clear and

> worthwhile goal we need Knowledge or Jnana. If we lack it we should

seek

> a Guru or Teacher who will help us to formulate a goal that is

> worthwhile. So the best kind of devotion is a devotion or obsession

> towards finding out the best goal there is and surrendering everything

> else towards achieving it.

> Dear n mallen ~ did Ramakrishna write this? If he did, I am sorry,

but I do

> not agree. In my experience devotion is that which leads to

kindness, "true"

> love, dedication to the goal, etc. Obsession, on the other hand may be

> positive or negative, but I believe devotion supercedes duality.

Devotion brings

> us, finally, into union with the Beloved. Obsession, which may or

may not lead

> to anti-social behavior, is something very different for me. One might

> consider an artist or musician as obsessive ... I have experienced

this myself,

> when I am unable to put down my guitar or rest my voice or my mind

until the

> song that is awaiting birth comes forth.

> I have also experienced the kind of obsession where someone who

claims to

> "love" yo trey is actually claiming you as an object to be treated

in any manner

> that (s)he determines.

>

> To me, "true devotion" is love and respect and whatever ways these

behaviors

> might be expressed in order to let our gurus, or God/dess, or even

our own

> earthly beloveds, know how much we care for them. I use the words

"true

> devotion" in the same way that the words "true wealth" are used to

describe

> Laksmi's purpose. What makes it "true" is the complete lack of

selfish motives. What

> makes it "true" is that it is an outflowing expression of grace.

>

> Out of curiosity, I looked up devotion in the dictionary and was

interested

> to see what was written there.

>

> The first definition was: "Ardent, often selfless affection and

dedication,

> as to a person or principle."

>

> The second was: "Religious ardor or zeal; piety."

>

> The third was two-fold:

> "a. An act of religious observance or prayer, especially when

private. Often

> used in the plural.

> b. devotions Prayers or religious texts: a book of devotions."

>

> Fourth was "The act of devoting or the state of being devoted."

>

> So, what interested me about this was that devotion was described

as a noun

> as well as an adjective, something a person has or shows. And

devotion was

> also presented as a verb, an action. I was especially interested in

the 4th

> definition in which devotion was described as a state of being. I

was also very

> interested to see that, where devotion was described as a type of

action,

> that one of the examples given was "bhakti." And I also felt that

the subsequent

> definition of bhakti was very well given: "(Hinduism) loving

devotion to a

> deity leading to salvation and Nirvana; open to all persons

independent of

> caste or sex"...

>

> Though a case could be made for devotion falling over the cliff into

> obsession with its resultant anti-social behavior. But then, to me,

it would no

> longer be devotion. Devotion by its very nature draws one into a

selfless

> relationship with regards to whomever or whatever one is devoted.

Jai Maa , Jai

> Swamiji ~ Linda

>