to Sadumaaji: Form or formless? Both are equally true. Sri Ramakrishna

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, "sadumaa" <sadumaa wrote:

>

> Thank you Muktimaa.

 

Jai Maa, my beloved soul sister! :<)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>

> , "muktimaa" <muktimaa@> wrote:

> >

> > Jai Maa, beloved family,

> >

> > Here is one of the initial conversations between M, the

chronicler

> of

> > The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna, and Thakur Himself, Sri

Ramakrishna:

> >

> > M had yet to learn the distinction between knowledge and

ignorance.

> > Up to this time he had thought that one got knowledge from books

> and

> > schools. Later on he gave up this false idea. He was taught that

to

> > know God is knowledge, and not to know Him, ignorance. When Sri

> > Ramakrishna exclaimed, "And you are a jnani!" M's ego was again

> badly

> > shocked.

> >

> > Master: "Well, do you believe in God with form or without form?"

> >

> > M, rather surprised, said to himself: "How can one believe in God

> > without form when one believes in God with form? And if one

> believes

> > in God without form, how can one believe that God has a form? Can

> > these two contradictory ideas be true at the same time? Can a

white

> > liquid like milk be black?"

> >

> > M: "Sir, I like to think of God as formless."

> >

> > Master: "Very good. It is enough to have faith in either aspect.

> You

> > believe in God without form; that is quite all right. But never

for

> a

> > moment think that this alone is true and all else false. Remember

> > that God with form is just as true as God without form. But hold

> fast

> > to your own conviction."

> >

> > The assertion that both are equally true amazed M; he had never

> > learnt this from his books. Thus his ego received a third blow;

but

> > since it was not yet completely crushed, he came forward to argue

> > with the Master a little more.

> >

> > M: "Sir, suppose one believes in God with form. Certainly He is

not

> > the clay image!"

> >

> > Master (interrupting): "But why clay? It is an image of Spirit."

> >

> > M could not quite understand the meaning of this "image of

> > Spirit.But, sir," he said to the Master, "one should explain

to

> > those who worship the clay image that it is not God, and that,

> while

> > worshipping it, they should have God in view and not the clay

> image.

> > One should not worship clay."

> >

> > Master (sharply): "That's the one hobby of you Calcutta people -

> > giving lectures and bringing others to the light! Nobody ever

stops

> > to consider how to get the light himself. Who are you to teach

> others?

> >

> > "He who is the Lord of the Universe will teach everyone. He alone

> > will teach us, who has created this universe; who has made the

sun

> > and moon, men and beasts, and all other beings; who has provided

> > means for their sustenance; who has given children parents and

> > endowed them with love to bring them up. The Lord has done so

many

> > things - will He not show people the way to worship Him? If they

> need

> > teaching, then He will be the Teacher. He is our Inner Guide.

> >

> > "Suppose there is an error in worshipping the clay image; doesn't

> God

> > know that through it He alone is being invoked? He will be

pleased

> > with that very worship. Why should you get a headache over it?

You

> > had better try for knowledge and devotion yourself."

> >

> > This time M felt that his ego was completely crushed. He now said

> to

> > himself: "Yes, he has spoken the truth. What need is there for me

> to

> > teach others? Have I known God? Do I really love Him? How true is

> the

> > proverb: I haven't room enough for myself in my bed, and I am

> > inviting a friend to share it with me! I know nothing about God,

> yet

> > I am trying to teach others. What a shame! How foolish I am! This

> is

> > not mathematics or history or literature, that one can teach it

to

> > others. No, this is the deep mystery of God. What he says appeals

> to

> > me." This was M's first argument with the Master, and happily his

> > last.

> >

> > Master: "You were talking of worshipping the clay image. Even if

> the

> > image is made of clay, there is need for that kind of worship.

God

> > Himself has provided different forms of worship. He who is the

Lord

> > of the Universe has arranged all these forms to suit different

men

> in

> > different stages of knowledge."

> >

> > "The mother cooks different dishes to suit the stomachs of her

> > different children. Suppose she has five children. If there is a

> fish

> > to cook, she prepares various dishes from it - pilau, pickled

fish,

> > fried fish, and so on - to suit their different tastes and powers

> of

> > digestion.

> >

> > "Do you understand me?"

> >

> > M (humbly): "Yes, sir. How, sir, may I fix my mind on God?"

> >

> > Master: "Repeat God's name and sing His glories, and now and then

> > visit God's devotees and holy men. The mind cannot dwell on God

if

> it

> > is immersed day and night in worldliness, in worldly duties and

> > responsibilities; it is most necessary to go into solitude now

and

> > then and think of God. To fix the mind on God is very difficult,

in

> > the beginning, unless one practises meditation in solitude. When

a

> > tree is young it should be fenced all around; otherwise it may be

> > destroyed by cattle."

> >

> > "There are three ways of meditating: think of God while doing

your

> > duties, or meditate on Him in a secluded corner of your house, or

> > contemplate Him in a wood. And you should always discriminate

> between

> > the Real, and the unreal: God alone is real, the Eternal

Substance;

> > all else is unreal, that is, impermanent. By discriminating thus,

> one

> > should shake off impermanent objects from the mind."

> >

> > M (humbly): "How ought we to live the world?"

> >

> > Master: "Do all your duties, but keep your mind on God. Live with

> > all - with wife and children, father and mother - and serve them.

> > Treat them as if they were very dear to you, but know in your

heart

> > of hearts that they do not belong to you.

> >

> > "A maidservant in the house of a rich man performs all the

> household

> > duties, but her thoughts are fixed on her own home in her native

> > village. She brings up her master's children as if they were her

> own.

> > She even speaks of them as 'my Rama' or 'my Hari.' But in her own

> > mind she knows very well that they do not belong to her at all.

> >

> > "If you enter the world without first cultivating love for God,

you

> > will be entangled more and more. You will be overwhelmed with its

> > danger, its grief, its sorrows. And the more you think of worldly

> > things, the more you will be attached to them."

> >

> > Jai Maa! Jai Swamiji! Jai Thakur Ramakrishna Deva!

> > Your sister continually in awe of Thakur,

> > muktimaa

> >

>