Stupid Q of The Day

[Guest guest]

Last night at the Zen Center, Yoshida Sensei was there and we ended up in

our round-table discussion w/him on the topic of 'Why do we practise if in

essence we are already pure, the world is pure, etc?' The image given was

that of a person in a rowboat rowing. Why Row? If we are one with the

river, then why pick a direction?

 

This also crossed in my head a scene from the Mahabharata (i saw the movie

version before we go any further!), specifically where Krishna pleades

with the someone (forget who) to stop the impending war between the

Pandavas and their cousins. When someone later asked him why he tried

that, i think the reply was something like, "Well, i had to try, even tho

i know it would not work, it had to be tried".

 

All of these things sifted down into the matter of why do we do the things

we are doing? And how do we know our correct function in any given moment?

And given that, how do we know our correct relationship in that moment,

and are these preceding things appropriate for this situation we are in

right now?

 

Which led to the question of "why take vows"? And i think one possible

answer on this is, for me, i am not always clear. Not always functioning

correctly. Usually functioning out of conditioned habits that are not

always the correctly functioning way to do things. That is one reason to

do that, taking vows helps steer the boat down the river. They are like

the oars.

 

So the stupid question is: How do you know if you are malfunctioning?

 

with maitri,

 

--janpa

[Guest guest]

Thank you Janpa, such a stupid question :-)

Can we ever know if we operate with total knowledge? In my opinion it

doesn't matter. I think that this is what Jerry is saying about

conditioning. What is important is not that we might have limitation, but

that we act with the best of our knowledge and the best of our intention for

the good of all the world.

 

A healer may work with all her skill to help a man. The healer doesn't know

that if the man had not been healed he might have been better off. Maybe one

more minute of his illness might have been just the experience needed to

trigger an awakening. All the healer knows is that her skill is available.

She does the best that she can with what she believes will help.

 

The example you use of Krishna is a counterpoint to this. Krishna is someone

with total knowledge. In the chapter of the Mahabharta called Bhagavad-Gita

is urges Arjuna, the hero of the story, to act while remaining unattached to

the outcome. He also acts out his part in the drama even though for him

there is nothing that can be attained that he does not already have. He acts

out of compassion for the world and as an example to others. "Whatsoever a

great man does, the very same is also done by other men."

 

IMO enlightenment is not a time bound state. What ever we are doing now is

an eternal event that is a part of who we are. All that has been or will be

is forever contained in this moment. You ask why take vows. Maybe this is

the best way to acknowledge the stream of truth that is embodied in the

tradition which inspires you. You might also think of it as accepting a

condition when you don't like the conditioning your conditioning was in

(sorry Jerry :-))

 

Namaste,

Dirk

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 6 Jan 1999 LeTeegee wrote:

>

> I find I am malfunctioning when I am not at peace, at one with myself or

> another... which is pretty much all the time since I stay in a state of

> malfunction. :-) but I can be at peace with my duality, knowing that it is

> all alright somewhere and being taken care of via the big picture. Hey, we do

> the best for what we know in this moment in time.

 

Is it possible, that the symptoms of little ego itself are the reason for

the questions?

 

Buddhanature is in everyone and everything. Everything is Buddha, and in a

sense, when one is to rest in primordial reality, this is where one is

supposed to be.

 

The problem is, i am seldom there! Um, seldom aware that i am there.

one is always *there*.

 

This question of mine is like asking a sleepy person if she's asleep yet

in a way.

 

i recently got gently chided by my teacher on grasping. grasping too much

to myself and ignoring that in reality, i dont own even the thoughts in my

head! (he just mentioned grasping, the other half was my own

interpretation.)

 

did i forget to set the alarm again? i think im still dreaming

 

maitri,

--jt

[Guest guest]

> "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01

[...]

> Which led to the question of "why take vows"? And i think one possible

> answer on this is, for me, i am not always clear. Not always functioning

> correctly. Usually functioning out of conditioned habits that are not

> always the correctly functioning way to do things. That is one reason to

> do that, taking vows helps steer the boat down the river. They are like

> the oars.

 

(smile) I remember my vow from childhood, never to vow because it would only

add to conditioning (sorry, Jerry). A bit more serious, any vow that will

aid in decreasing the influence of, or divert attention from, self is

beneficial.

> So the stupid question is: How do you know if you are malfunctioning?

>

It isn't a stupid question. One is malfunctioning if one isn't

unconditionally happy (the "quiet" type of happiness), as this is one's

birthright.

 

Jan

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/6/99 1:52:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,

dorf01 writes:

 

<< Is it possible, that the symptoms of little ego itself are the reason for

the questions?

 

The symptoms being? What? - confusion, fear, guilt, not knowing, suffering,

not getting our way, etc. etc... I would think so, yes. There is only one

problem -- separation from God. And only one answer -- reconnecting to your

Source (God/ Holy Spirit/ Buddha/ Higher Self, etc)

 

<Buddhanature is in everyone and everything. Everything is Buddha, and in a

sense, when one is to rest in primordial reality, this is where one is

supposed to be.

 

This is who we are. There is nothing to do. Nothing to eliminate. There

isn't even transcendance. Just recognition.

 

< The problem is, i am seldom there! Um, seldom aware that i am there.

one is always *there*. This question of mine is like asking a sleepy person

if she's asleep yet in a way.

 

Yes! I find in my life, I get sooo sleepy and must go take a nap, in order to

wake up and feel awake. This reminds me of how we forget in order to

remember. Or as Jan explained in another post :

 

What seems to be experience of misery, in retrospect appears to be necessary

because without it, one will not abandon self, being the source of suffering.

This doesn't mean to welcome suffering, because insight could have provided

the same result.

 

And I think he makes a good point here... 'because insight could have provided

the same result.'

 

< i recently got gently chided by my teacher on grasping. grasping too much

to myself and ignoring that in reality, i dont own even the thoughts in my

head! (he just mentioned grasping, the other half was my own

interpretation.)

 

I see us as like a lamp unplugged, in darkness, and we are grasping for some

kinda light... but we cannot see cause we aren't plugged in! So what's the

answer? Plug it in, plug it in...

 

<did i forget to set the alarm again? i think im still dreaming

 

Don't you think as long as we are here, we are still dreaming?... dreaming we

are awake even when we are 'plugged in' - being one with our dream. So while

we are here, we might as well make it a happy dream, rather than a nightmare.

 

If one is truly awake/awake, would they even be here? This is probably a

daring question, as it questions Guru's and enlightened beings that are still

here. Personally, I don't think it's possible, but will open my mind to those

that know better and can give me another perspective. Anybody??

 

Love,

xxxtg

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 8 Jan 1999 LeTeegee wrote:

>

> If one is truly awake/awake, would they even be here? This is probably a

> daring question, as it questions Guru's and enlightened beings that are still

> here. Personally, I don't think it's possible, but will open my mind to those

> that know better and can give me another perspective. Anybody??

 

i dont know if there is a corellary to this or not, but in buddhist ideas,

there are the 3 bodies of a buddha, the dharmakaya, sambhogakaya, and

nirmanakaya. What most of us see is the buddha's manifestation body, or

nirmanakaya, occasionally a realized being can see the sambhogakaya.

Dharmakaya is...well, dharmakaya, i dont have a good understanding of

that, but its the Essence.

 

So anyway, since Guru is Buddha, (s)he is awake, because what we see is

only the nirmanakaya aspect. There's more to the picture than meets the

eye.

 

with maitri,

 

--janpa tsomo aka me