Guest guest Posted March 9, 1999 Report Share Posted March 9, 1999 Harsha: Thank you Janpa for your many wise recent posts on Tantra. There is abundant spiritual literature available on it. There are many different schools of Tantra. Like much of spirituality, Tantra today is big business both in the West and the East. Because of the added component of sexuality, there is tremendous potential for abuse by "spiritual teachers." We hear stories everyday about "famous" spiritual masters caught sexually exploiting their students. Many look the other way. There is no need to deny the obvious. The only real protection a person has is his/her own genuine aspiration and purity. If those are there, then even a spiritual charlatan might serve the student well. The spiritual path is smooth when there is purity. Purity is our very nature. Knowing it we should remain content and peaceful in awareness. Looking at awareness with awareness, we Recognize the Self as Pure Being, the nature of which is Awareness Only. There is no rest except in Rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 1999 Report Share Posted March 9, 1999 Notibly, this is the first and last post that I will present regarding Tantra and Tantra practices. I believe this to be a very personal and private matter and for these reasons I choose not to discuss this issue. In order for one to 'truely' feel the power of sexuality, it should be left for ones own self to explore this area based in comfort level. To open one's self up to a teacher is to accept another path that may force unwanted events to transpire based in the trust a master demands. It seems to me that the 'joy' of discovery is far more powerful and permanent when done within one's own clock. I do admit that I am rather biased in this area as my entire awakening has been based in my own understanding and experience. Sexuality is a very private issue and is possibly proportionate to one's comfort with their own body. To force experiences, in the name of 'enlightenment', is wrong and I am sure it confuses many and thus sends them in other directions with new issues of soul to deal. Enlightenment is a flower that blooms on its own. The discoveries along the way, including sexual pleasure and mastery, are a part of it. If it is not a part of it, it because of choice and personal convictions based in one's own enlightenment. Please excuse me if I sound smug here it is not my intention. My wife and I have discovered on our own tantric sex through reading and trying. We may be totally off the mark, as far as that goes, but we are both extemely satasfied. I was a man growing up so my fascination with sex was intense. My wife on the contrary, was very frigid when we met. Now, I am well past my sexual prime and she is coming into hers and we have 'very' satasfing sex and are still very much commited to our monogamous relationship even with the outing of a few fantasies. Fantasy is the fuel when it comes to sex. If you can not share your fantasies with your partner, then you are just performing a function. When it comes to others being involved with you and your partner, consider: 1 is all. My wife is my 1 or all. To add additional partners may, in the beginning, be exciting, but this excitement is only temporary. Once one 'experiences' the ride, the ride becomes boring and you seek a greater thrill. This could be a very distructive path and sexual addiction is a problem. At the least, you now take the greatness and power of your love and divide it over two, three, or more never being able to give 100% to the one. For many this is their path and that is fine. However, for some such as my wife and I, it is very personal and private yet don't be fooled...we have performed for a packed house of empty chairs in an outdoor theatre in Banff National Park. Regards. Tim Harris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 1999 Report Share Posted March 9, 1999 Madhya: Thank you, Harshaji, for your comments toJanpa. I am afraid Madhya must take responsibility for the recent spate of posts regarding Tantra since they originated in her responses to dialogue in the tantrasadhana list. And, you know, Madhya is something of a heretic. How marvelous are the expressions of God, my Self! I am indeed, pure awareness. And not only this, but when I look at the world, experience the sights and sounds of my own body, how peaceful I am! When harsh voices occur, when babies cry, when dogs bark, how sweet the sound! When I am homeless, (as Madhya is at the moment), and travel from this place to that, how astonishing the sights, the smells, the flush on the faces of the panhandlers! Awareness is, indeed, Form and Form Awareness! Can there be anything sweeter than the utterly still motion of mySelf! M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 1999 Report Share Posted March 9, 1999 Very good point harsha! re: abuse by spiritual teachers, that's why its a good idea to look someone over thoroughly. Traditionally for 12 years . --jt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 1999 Report Share Posted March 9, 1999 Dear Tim: I can certainly understand your stand on this issue. I am a bit surprised at how one-sided the discussion on tantra has become. There are 3 forms of tantra - of which only one involves sexual union or activity between people - this is known as red tantra. Black tantra is akin to magic and white tantra can be done through exercises involving other people without sexual practices and can be done by a person alone. The use of mantra and yantra in combination is considered a tantric practice among many others. In white tantra it is the union of Siva/Shakti within that is the goal. Sexual abstinence is also a part of white tantric yoga practices as ojas is considered to be a vital energy that should be utilized for inner transformation. Certainly respecting the sacred bond between husband and wife is to be commended. Namaste, Linda Tim Harris [harris] Tuesday, March 09, 1999 10:37 AM Re: Tantra Tim Harris <harris Notibly, this is the first and last post that I will present regarding Tantra and Tantra practices. I believe this to be a very personal and private matter and for these reasons I choose not to discuss this issue. In order for one to 'truely' feel the power of sexuality, it should be left for ones own self to explore this area based in comfort level. To open one's self up to a teacher is to accept another path that may force unwanted events to transpire based in the trust a master demands. It seems to me that the 'joy' of discovery is far more powerful and permanent when done within one's own clock. I do admit that I am rather biased in this area as my entire awakening has been based in my own understanding and experience. Sexuality is a very private issue and is possibly proportionate to one's comfort with their own body. To force experiences, in the name of 'enlightenment', is wrong and I am sure it confuses many and thus sends them in other directions with new issues of soul to deal. Enlightenment is a flower that blooms on its own. The discoveries along the way, including sexual pleasure and mastery, are a part of it. If it is not a part of it, it because of choice and personal convictions based in one's own enlightenment. Please excuse me if I sound smug here it is not my intention. My wife and I have discovered on our own tantric sex through reading and trying. We may be totally off the mark, as far as that goes, but we are both extemely satasfied. I was a man growing up so my fascination with sex was intense. My wife on the contrary, was very frigid when we met. Now, I am well past my sexual prime and she is coming into hers and we have 'very' satasfing sex and are still very much commited to our monogamous relationship even with the outing of a few fantasies. Fantasy is the fuel when it comes to sex. If you can not share your fantasies with your partner, then you are just performing a function. When it comes to others being involved with you and your partner, consider: 1 is all. My wife is my 1 or all. To add additional partners may, in the beginning, be exciting, but this excitement is only temporary. Once one 'experiences' the ride, the ride becomes boring and you seek a greater thrill. This could be a very distructive path and sexual addiction is a problem. At the least, you now take the greatness and power of your love and divide it over two, three, or more never being able to give 100% to the one. For many this is their path and that is fine. However, for some such as my wife and I, it is very personal and private yet don't be fooled...we have performed for a packed house of empty chairs in an outdoor theatre in Banff National Park. Regards. Tim Harris ------ We are proud as punch of our new web site! Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 1999 Report Share Posted March 9, 1999 Hi Harsha, >Harsha: Thank you Janpa for your many wise recent posts on Tantra. There is >abundant spiritual literature available on it. I'm interested in the literature of tantra... not just sexual tantra but all sorts of method, technique... because I teach... and, as you know, a teacher is always looking to learn more... Sometimes what I find is just a better way to explain something... or a beautiful passage that may open someone's heart and mind... But I'm always interested in knowing more about technique... you can never tell what's going to come in handy )... and no learning is ever wasted. If you can suggest books, I'd be grateful... the literature is so vast... and I don't read Sanskrit or Tibetan, so I'm pretty limited that way... (btw, would Sanskrit be learnable without a teacher? I know it's Indo-European, so maybe it wouldn't be too difficult.) >There are many different >schools of Tantra. Like much of spirituality, Tantra today is big business >both in the West and the East. Because of the added component of sexuality, >there is tremendous potential for abuse by "spiritual teachers." We hear >stories everyday about "famous" spiritual masters caught sexually exploiting >their students. Many look the other way. There is no need to deny the >obvious. The only real protection a person has is his/her own genuine >aspiration and purity. Yes... I read once, "Your greatest protection is your purpose." >If those are there, then even a spiritual charlatan >might serve the student well. Yes... You know about my experiences last summer... I came to understand that I led myself into that for a reason... it was difficult, but the result was beneficial... another rung or three on the ladder. ) >The spiritual path is smooth when there is >purity. Purity is our very nature. Knowing it we should remain content and >peaceful in awareness. Looking at awareness with awareness, we Recognize the >Self as Pure Being, the nature of which is Awareness Only. Thank you for this... a beautiful way to start the day.. Love, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 1999 Report Share Posted March 9, 1999 At 08:37 AM 3/9/99 -0700, Tim Harris wrote: >Enlightenment is a flower that blooms on its own. Which inspired: IN-light is a flower... that blooms on its own, it need not be 'farmed'... nor consciously grown. Once this 'seed'... in our mind has been sown, 'tis but a short time... till we shall atone. ( /\ ) sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 1999 Report Share Posted March 9, 1999 samuel wrote: > > samuel <samuel > > At 08:37 AM 3/9/99 -0700, Tim Harris wrote: > > >Enlightenment is a flower that blooms on its own. > > Which inspired: > > IN-light is a flower... that blooms on its own, > it need not be 'farmed'... nor consciously grown. > Once this 'seed'... in our mind has been sown, > 'tis but a short time... till we shall atone. > > ( /\ ) > > sam Which inspired. Regards. Tim Harris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 1999 Report Share Posted March 9, 1999 Tim; Your path sounds wonderful On the tantric path, one must surrender everything. Husbands, wives, fantasies--thoughts themselves. Even the very idea that one possesses about oneself. Enlightenment is beyond thoughts, emotions, feelings, beyond anything that one can imagine in one's mind. On the path of tantra, enlightenment cannot be earned, it must be given as a gift by Self to self. One cannot get it, or earn it--in tantra, anyway. Tantra is unconcerned about how much money one makes, whether one enjoys this vocation or that. Tantra demands total devotion. Sex is nothing to tantra. Anyone on the tantric path will, with the blessing of Grace, reach a point where they discover that just being alive is actually more erotic that sex. They are free to enjoy sex...or not, as they please. Tantra is a path where one recognizes that one needs nothing other than Presence for full and complete satisfaction. It is not an easy path. Definitely not for everyone. Madhyanandi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 1999 Report Share Posted March 9, 1999 > >>Enlightenment is a flower that blooms on its own. > > >Which inspired: > >IN-light is a flower... that blooms on its own, >it need not be 'farmed'... nor consciously grown. >Once this 'seed'... in our mind has been sown, >'tis but a short time... till we shall atone. > > >( /\ ) > >sam > >Madhya: I Am My Own. Nothing to Atone My Heart is a Garden, where Freedom roams. >------ >Start a new hobby. Meet a new friend. > >Onelist: The leading provider of free email list services Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 1999 Report Share Posted March 9, 1999 At 01:23 PM 3/9/99 -0800, you wrote: >On the tantric path, one must surrender everything. Husbands, wives, >fantasies--thoughts themselves. Even the very idea that one possesses >about oneself. Enlightenment is beyond thoughts, emotions, feelings, >beyond anything that one can imagine in one's mind. This does sound like a very difficult and dedicated path. >On the path of tantra, enlightenment cannot be earned, it must be given as >a gift by Self to self. One cannot get it, or earn it--in tantra, anyway. Most other paths view things this way as well, or similarly; on the path I currently follow (jnana), enlightenment is already possessed, it's a matter of discriminating between Truth and falsehood, of renouncing falsehood and embracing Truth, and the rest is given by Grace. There isn't such a strong requirement to literally give up everything, but more to give up ATTACHMENT to everything. >Tantra is unconcerned about how much money one makes, whether one enjoys >this vocation or that. > >Tantra demands total devotion. Don't ALL paths, really? If one is to get anywhere? >It is not an easy path. Definitely not for everyone. Ditto with jnana, it is considered one of the steepest and rockiest paths. Almost straight uphill. Transcendence of the intellect through the intellect. So I "temper" this main path with others, including Bhakti and Raja. Never tried the Tantric path though, and know very little about it. With Love, Tim ----- The CORE of Reality awaits you at: http://www.serv.net/~fewtch/ND/index.html - Poetry, Writings, even Live Chat on spiritual topics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 1999 Report Share Posted March 9, 1999 At 01:29 PM 3/9/99 -0800, you wrote: >madhya nandi <madhya >I Am My Own. >Nothing to Atone Perhaps we are using different definitions of "atone"? I used it as per definition 4 in my dictionary. ie: be in accord, or to be as one. sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 1999 Report Share Posted March 9, 1999 With all due respect ... On the path of Life, one must surrender everything. Husbands, wives, fantasies--thoughts themselves. Even the very idea that one possesses about oneself. Life is beyond thoughts, emotions, feelings, beyond anything that one can imagine in one's mind. On the path of Life, enlightenment cannot be earned, it must be given as a gift by Self to self. One cannot get it, or earn it--in Life, anyway. Life is unconcerned about how much money one makes, whether one enjoys this vocation or that. Life demands total devotion. Sex is nothing to Life. Anyone on the path of Life will, with the blessing of Grace, reach a point where they discover that just being alive is actually more erotic that sex. They are free to enjoy sex...or not, as they please. Life is a path where one recognizes that one needs nothing other than Presence for full and complete satisfaction. It is not an easy path (Life). Definitely not for everyone. >madhya nandi <madhya >On the tantric path, one must surrender everything. Husbands, wives, >fantasies--thoughts themselves. Even the very idea that one possesses >about oneself. Enlightenment is beyond thoughts, emotions, feelings, >beyond anything that one can imagine in one's mind. > >On the path of tantra, enlightenment cannot be earned, it must be given as >a gift by Self to self. One cannot get it, or earn it--in tantra, anyway. > >Tantra is unconcerned about how much money one makes, whether one enjoys >this vocation or that. > >Tantra demands total devotion. > >Sex is nothing to tantra. Anyone on the tantric path will, with the >blessing of Grace, reach a point where they discover that just being alive >is actually more erotic that sex. They are free to enjoy sex...or not, as >they please. > >Tantra is a path where one recognizes that one needs nothing other than >Presence for full and complete satisfaction. > >It is not an easy path. Definitely not for everyone. > > >Madhyanandi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 1999 Report Share Posted March 9, 1999 > >>I Am My Own. >>Nothing to Atone > >Perhaps we are using different definitions of "atone"? >I used it as per definition 4 in my dictionary. > ie: be in accord, or to be as one. > >Ah...that works. M > > > > > >------ >Did you know that we have over 85,000 e-mail communities at Onelist? > >Come visit our new web site and explore a new interest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 1999 Report Share Posted March 10, 1999 >"Phillip Burton" <p_burton > >With all due respect ... > >Phil-- I believe that I can appreciate what you are attempting to accomplish. But exchanging "life" for "tantra" is not at all the same. It is difficult to understand another's view while attempting to homogenous that view to meet the expectations of one's own belief system. Ramana Maharshi devoted years and thousands of hours of his life to practice, to transformation, to meditation. He would abide in such deep states of meditation that he possessed utter disregard for the fact that ants and other insects were crawling on his skin leaving him covered with welts. His devotees took turns taking care of him. The Sage's life on the hill was utterly devoted to the practice--and life--of realization. He surrendered home, family, worldy pleasures--all for the sake of devotion to the Self. And he is not alone. Around the world, thousands of devotees, whether in homes or ashrams, are committing the minutes and hours of their days to spiritual transformation. Tantra, indeed all Sadhana, simply follows the example that Ramana set. Some methods may differ, but the commitment--doing the work, cultivating discipline, transmuting deep longing and passion into Realization--cannot. Are we greater than he? The extraordinary peace that devotees felt in Ramana's presence was a direct result of his surrender of self to Self-hour after hour after hour. Can we do less than this? Yes, in a sense, Tantra sadhana is Life. But life spent practicing the breath, chanting mantra, praying, doing postures and meditating. Perhaps not for hour after hour on a hill, but throughout our daily life. And most of all, sitting before masters and teachers like Ramana Maharshi, who have transformed how they experience consciousness. Now, you may have a different approach. That is wonderful. More power to you. I will honor that approach by respecting It for what It is--not by attempting to transforming It to meet my own agenda. I may agree or disagree. I might offer reasons for agreeing or disagreeing. But I will respect your commitment to your path. That is a pledge that Madhyanandi makes. When Madhya speaks of tantra, she is unconcerned about notions of sex, or this school or that tradition. For Madhya, tantra is bathing daily in the delight of God's endlessly repeated name. This is life. For her, tantra is sitting for hours in meditation rather than watching television or going out with friends or to a movie. This is life. Or, when she goes to see Saving Private Ryan or The Thin Red Line, or to a concert or lecture, she sits absolutely still. She doesn't move at all. She begins doing pranayama while watching the movie. She becomes increasingly more relaxed as she meditates watching the movie--never once moving, sitting like a rock, experiencing the deepest, most relaxing meditation while watching the movie. And when the movie or concert is over, Madhya has experienced this event in a contemplative state--not the same as the waking state. She leaves the theater with such an astonishing serenity. But it was all the result of effortful Grace. Grace applied day after day, year after year--following the example of the Sage of Arunchala, and Swami Laksmanjoo, and my current teacher, Bharatji, and many, many other superb examples of devotion and commitment. Why all this effort? For love, only love. Oh, and because it is so astonishingly fun! Friends, when we work we are following the example of the sages, mystics and shamans down through the ages Christian, Sufi, Buddhist, Taoist, Zen, Vedanta, Tantra. Can we do less than any of these? And when we follow the footsteps of the masters, living their practices, sharing their disciplines, and devotions-- perhaps Grace will share with us what She gave to them. Madhya >------ >Ta Da! Come see our new web site! > >Onelist: A free email community service Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 1999 Report Share Posted March 10, 1999 "Disclaimer - " It's my wish that no devoted followers of Sri Ramana Maharshi take offense at my posting here. No offense is intended; thus, if taken, it is taken through personal misinterpretation of what I am saying. I may, however, apologize if I have been unclear in meaning here. Expressing spiritual concepts in words is difficult. At 09:38 PM 3/9/99 -0800, you wrote: >Ramana Maharshi devoted years and thousands of hours of his life to >practice, to transformation, to meditation. He would abide in such deep >states of meditation that he possessed utter disregard for the fact that >ants and other insects were crawling on his skin leaving him covered with >welts. His devotees took turns taking care of him. Does this necessarily suggest greatness, or does it perhaps suggest that for some unknown reason he would not bother to move to a location where such insects could not eat at him? Such a thing could not be terribly distracting or difficult to do, and makes me wonder why he did not take one minute from his meditation to move to a cleaner place. I could meditate within a garbage can; does this signify greatness? No, it would signify a lack of common sense (to me). >Tantra, indeed all Sadhana, simply follows the example that Ramana set. >Some methods may differ, but the commitment--doing the work, cultivating >discipline, transmuting deep longing and passion into Realization--cannot. >Are we greater than he? He is no more; he died. The Now no longer holds his form here on Earth. If he were alive today though, I would say that we are at least equal (being At-One with All). Greatness does not equate to doing. Greatness equates to BEING, to right discrimination and knowledge of Truth. No amount of DOING can bring about spiritual greatness. Saint Sankara: "Right action helps to purify the heart, but it does not give us direct perception of the Reality. The Reality is attained through discrimination, but not in the smallest degree by ten million acts." >Yes, in a sense, Tantra sadhana is Life. But life spent practicing the >breath, chanting mantra, praying, doing postures and meditating. Perhaps >not for hour after hour on a hill, but throughout our daily life. And most >of all, sitting before masters and teachers like Ramana Maharshi, who have >transformed how they experience consciousness. Saint Sankara: "Men may recite the scriptures and sacrifice to the holy spirits, they may perform rituals and worship deities--but, until a man wakes to knowledge of his identity with the Atman, liberation can never be obtained; no, not even at the end of many hundreds of ages." "Certain knowledge of the Reality is gained only through meditation upon right teaching, and not by sacred ablutions, or almsgiving, or by the practice of hundreds of breathing exercises." >Why all this effort? For love, only love. Oh, and because it is so >astonishingly fun! Effort may be fun, but it will get a spiritual seeker nowhere. Fun may also be had in utilizing a yo-yo or hula hoop. >Friends, when we work we are following the example of the sages, mystics >and shamans down through the ages Christian, Sufi, Buddhist, Taoist, Zen, >Vedanta, Tantra. Can we do less than any of these? And when we follow the >footsteps of the masters, living their practices, sharing their >disciplines, and devotions-- perhaps Grace will share with us what She gave >to them. Speak for yourself... although I listen with discernment to the words of the masters, and attempt always to discriminate Truth from falsehood, I follow in no one's footsteps but my own. I walk my path alone, My only master being Brahman. Who are the masters, but human beings, the same as I am, and most of them now dead, while I am still living? Thus in a sense, I am greater than any master who has died, because I am still living. Let the dead remain dead. They are gone, and so is the past. Tim ----- The CORE of Reality awaits you at: http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html - Poetry, Writings, even Live Chat on spiritual topics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 1999 Report Share Posted March 10, 1999 << I believe that I can appreciate what you are attempting to accomplish. But exchanging "life" for "tantra" is not at all the same. It is difficult to understand another's view while attempting to homogenous that view to meet the expectations of one's own belief system. >> Which belief system would that be? If I have a belief system, I'm not aware of it. What I do understand is that setting up enlightenment as a goal to be attained is a subtle rejection of the Life that is already present. If that is what's called a belief, then call it what you want. Is there some divergence between tantra and life? I have witnessed on this list a discussion of tantra -- which is about technique -- and it became a discussion of different schools (of technique) such as Buddhist, Vedantin Hindu, Shaivite Hindu, and so forth. That is all sort of academic to me. My own practice is simply seeing what is in the present moment. Seeing what is has blossomed into a spontaneous love for Shakti. Does this conform to the pattern of a school of tantra? I doubt it. << Ramana Maharshi devoted years and thousands of hours of his life to practice, to transformation, to meditation. He would abide in such deep states of meditation that he possessed utter disregard for the fact that ants and other insects were crawling on his skin leaving him covered with welts. His devotees took turns taking care of him. >> In a big city one can sit for hours at a bus stop absorbed in meditation. Wouldn't it be ludicrous to make this a "go and do likewise" when, if the same was alert to his or her environment, he or she could get on the bus and get to work? << The Sage's life on the hill was utterly devoted to the practice--and life--of realization. He surrendered home, family, worldy pleasures--all for the sake of devotion to the Self. And he is not alone. Around the world, thousands of devotees, whether in homes or ashrams, are committing the minutes and hours of their days to spiritual transformation. >> A practice that encompasses Love will not sacrifice home, family, or even worldly pleasures. << Tantra, indeed all Sadhana, simply follows the example that Ramana set. Some methods may differ, but the commitment--doing the work, cultivating discipline, transmuting deep longing and passion into Realization--cannot. Are we greater than he? >> Are you greater than me? Am I greater than you? How did this come about? Why is there competition and invidious comparison? Do such things have anything to do with spirit? << The extraordinary peace that devotees felt in Ramana's presence was a direct result of his surrender of self to Self-hour after hour after hour. Can we do less than this? >> Sometimes there is an extraordinary peace in the midst of traffic jams. Who can pre-determine where peace can be found? << Yes, in a sense, Tantra sadhana is Life. But life spent practicing the breath, chanting mantra, praying, doing postures and meditating. Perhaps not for hour after hour on a hill, but throughout our daily life. And most of all, sitting before masters and teachers like Ramana Maharshi, who have transformed how they experience consciousness. >> Yes. All of this is wonderful. All of it is written in the book. All of it is window-dressing. << Now, you may have a different approach. That is wonderful. More power to you. I will honor that approach by respecting It for what It is--not by attempting to transforming It to meet my own agenda. I may agree or disagree. I might offer reasons for agreeing or disagreeing. But I will respect your commitment to your path. That is a pledge that Madhyanandi makes. When Madhya speaks of tantra, she is unconcerned about notions of sex, or this school or that tradition. For Madhya, tantra is bathing daily in the delight of God's endlessly repeated name. This is life. For her, tantra is sitting for hours in meditation rather than watching television or going out with friends or to a movie. This is life. Or, when she goes to see Saving Private Ryan or The Thin Red Line, or to a concert or lecture, she sits absolutely still. She doesn't move at all. She begins doing pranayama while watching the movie. She becomes increasingly more relaxed as she meditates watching the movie--never once moving, sitting like a rock, experiencing the deepest, most relaxing meditation while watching the movie. And when the movie or concert is over, Madhya has experienced this event in a contemplative state--not the same as the waking state. She leaves the theater with such an astonishing serenity. But it was all the result of effortful Grace. Grace applied day after day, year after year--following the example of the Sage of Arunchala, and Swami Laksmanjoo, and my current teacher, Bharatji, and many, many other superb examples of devotion and commitment. Why all this effort? For love, only love. Oh, and because it is so astonishingly fun! Friends, when we work we are following the example of the sages, mystics and shamans down through the ages Christian, Sufi, Buddhist, Taoist, Zen, Vedanta, Tantra. Can we do less than any of these? And when we follow the footsteps of the masters, living their practices, sharing their disciplines, and devotions-- perhaps Grace will share with us what She gave to them. >> Madhya, your voice and presence are honored here. Your joy is palpable. Your insight is refreshing and illuminating. Posting as I did was not an effort to contradict. I hope you don't see it that way. The example I follow (if that's what it is) is of the sage that said, "I chop wood. I carry water." .... Phil ... Phillip Burton <p_burton <http://www.austintx.net/pbek/1sthought.html> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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