Guest guest Posted March 12, 1999 Report Share Posted March 12, 1999 List, I have alway's known in my deepest place that the finite must be allowed to exist. Shiva was all before my realization, and is all after. This is the critical juncture of the soul. By giving all of me; my body, heart, soul, belongings, aspirations, mental constructs...all of me to Nityananda--the eternal ShivaShakti--all finite representations of me dies. I become one with the absolute. I see that I started this journey from the lowest underneath Maya to the point of Self realization of my own free will; that is to say, that Self did this intentionally to Self with full knowledge. Now, if during the realization of the Self I do not give my finite self totally and completely with pure love, pure bhakti, then there will be a hybrid combination of Self realization and ego. I will be Self realized, but the final step, liberation will be out of my grasp. Assuming I have actually went as far as I can go, my ego begins picking apart all the seeming ignorances, senseless acts, and so-called sins. I become judgemental, becoming an ego-god. The world is imperfect and I make judgements. BUT, if I have given the finite self up completely, I become completely Self realized, and realize in the process that this is the Self I intentionally became ignorant of, and in my joy I see that all is just as I left it, just as it should be. All the seeming injustices and sins and ignorant acts are only the Self's very own lessons and experiences. As fully realized Self, I also watch as the silent witness my very own Self under the veil of Maya, the Self I was and am, yet I am Realized Self too. I see so many people intellectually understand that Shiva remains untainted by Maya, above Maya, and yet allows himself to be under the veil of Maya at the same time, but they just don't live it within the inner Self. Such a soul is lost. Just because we have risen above Maya, it in no way, shape, or form gives us the right to judge those under Maya. The truly Self realized individual sees that the freedom above Maya, and those under the veil of Maya are just as it should be. The lost soul has forgotten this one true lesson, this juncture, and so he/she judges. The liberated soul is true, and remains silent. He/she sees all is as it should be. Much Light Marcus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 1999 Report Share Posted March 12, 1999 Harsha, And you my friend, have all the love and respect of the pure in heart. Namaste good friend. Much Light Marcus Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar) <hluthar < > Saturday, March 13, 1999 2:34 AM Re: Fw: [Ananda] Self "Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar Thank you Marcus for that beautiful post. I again wish to welcome Marcus and Martin to this list, two hightly advanced yogis. May we always have company of saints pure in heart and firm on the path. with love Harsha Gemini wrote: > List, I have alway's known in my deepest place that the finite > must be allowed to exist. Shiva was all before my realization, and is > all after. This is the critical juncture of the soul. By giving all of > me; my body, heart, soul, belongings, aspirations, mental > constructs...all of me to Nityananda--the eternal ShivaShakti--all > finite representations of me dies. I become one with the absolute. I > see that I started this journey from the lowest underneath Maya to the > point of Self realization of my own free will; that is to say, that > Self did this intentionally to Self with full knowledge. Now, if > during the realization of the Self I do not give my finite self > totally and completely with pure love, pure bhakti, then there will be > a hybrid combination of Self realization and ego. I will be Self > realized, but the final step, liberation will be out of my grasp. > Assuming I have actually went as far as I can go, my ego begins > picking apart all the seeming ignorances, senseless acts, and > so-called sins. I become judgemental, becoming an ego-god. The world > is imperfect and I make judgements. BUT, if I have given the > finite self up completely, I become completely Self realized, and > realize in the process that this is the Self I intentionally became > ignorant of, and in my joy I see that all is just as I left it, just > as it should be. All the seeming injustices and sins and ignorant acts > are only the Self's very own lessons and experiences. As fully > realized Self, I also watch as the silent witness my very own Self > under the veil of Maya, the Self I was and am, yet I am Realized Self > too. I see so many people intellectually understand that Shiva > remains untainted by Maya, above Maya, and yet allows himself to be > under the veil of Maya at the same time, but they just don't live it > within the inner Self. Such a soul is lost. Just because we have risen > above Maya, it in no way, shape, or form gives us the right to judge > those under Maya. The truly Self realized individual sees that the > freedom above Maya, and those under the veil of Maya are just as it > should be. The lost soul has forgotten this one true lesson, this > juncture, and so he/she judges. The liberated soul is true, and > remains silent. He/she sees all is as it should be.Much LightMarcus > > > ------ Ta Da! Come see our new web site! Onelist: A free email community service Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 1999 Report Share Posted March 12, 1999 Thank you Marcus for that beautiful post. I again wish to welcome Marcus and Martin to this list, two hightly advanced yogis. May we always have company of saints pure in heart and firm on the path. with love Harsha Gemini wrote: > List, I have alway's known in my deepest place that the finite > must be allowed to exist. Shiva was all before my realization, and is > all after. This is the critical juncture of the soul. By giving all of > me; my body, heart, soul, belongings, aspirations, mental > constructs...all of me to Nityananda--the eternal ShivaShakti--all > finite representations of me dies. I become one with the absolute. I > see that I started this journey from the lowest underneath Maya to the > point of Self realization of my own free will; that is to say, that > Self did this intentionally to Self with full knowledge. Now, if > during the realization of the Self I do not give my finite self > totally and completely with pure love, pure bhakti, then there will be > a hybrid combination of Self realization and ego. I will be Self > realized, but the final step, liberation will be out of my grasp. > Assuming I have actually went as far as I can go, my ego begins > picking apart all the seeming ignorances, senseless acts, and > so-called sins. I become judgemental, becoming an ego-god. The world > is imperfect and I make judgements. BUT, if I have given the > finite self up completely, I become completely Self realized, and > realize in the process that this is the Self I intentionally became > ignorant of, and in my joy I see that all is just as I left it, just > as it should be. All the seeming injustices and sins and ignorant acts > are only the Self's very own lessons and experiences. As fully > realized Self, I also watch as the silent witness my very own Self > under the veil of Maya, the Self I was and am, yet I am Realized Self > too. I see so many people intellectually understand that Shiva > remains untainted by Maya, above Maya, and yet allows himself to be > under the veil of Maya at the same time, but they just don't live it > within the inner Self. Such a soul is lost. Just because we have risen > above Maya, it in no way, shape, or form gives us the right to judge > those under Maya. The truly Self realized individual sees that the > freedom above Maya, and those under the veil of Maya are just as it > should be. The lost soul has forgotten this one true lesson, this > juncture, and so he/she judges. The liberated soul is true, and > remains silent. He/she sees all is as it should be.Much LightMarcus > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 1999 Report Share Posted March 13, 1999 Thanks so much, this is a "keeper" and I'm saving it. I have met at least one person who is stuck at that critical juncture you mention, who is not liberated, who continues to mercilessly judge the world of Maya, and thus ultimately loses Himself. In fact, this person does so aggressively on Usenet. I wish He could see your message; however he might discount it. He is stuck into the judgemental pattern so strongly that there's little possibility for release in this lifetime. Your description of a "hybrid" combination of Self-Realization and ego fits this person "To a T." However, nobody can save their souls but themselves. Perhaps it doesn't matter whether or not this person sees your message. Still, love makes me wish fervently that He would look at and examine it. Tim At 07:29 PM 3/12/99 -0000, you wrote: >>>> List, I have alway's known in my deepest place that the finite must be allowed to exist. Shiva was all before my realization, and is all after. This is the critical juncture of the soul. By giving all of me; my body, heart, soul, belongings, aspirations, mental constructs...all of me to Nityananda--the eternal ShivaShakti--all finite representations of me dies. I become one with the absolute. I see that I started this journey from the lowest underneath Maya to the point of Self realization of my own free will; that is to say, that Self did this intentionally to Self with full knowledge. Now, if during the realization of the Self I do not give my finite self totally and completely with pure love, pure bhakti, then there will be a hybrid combination of Self realization and ego. I will be Self realized, but the final step, liberation will be out of my grasp. Assuming I have actually went as far as I can go, my ego begins picking apart all the seeming ignorances, senseless acts, and so-called sins. I become judgemental, becoming an ego-god. The world is imperfect and I make judgements. BUT, if I have given the finite self up completely, I become completely Self realized, and realize in the process that this is the Self I intentionally became ignorant of, and in my joy I see that all is just as I left it, just as it should be. All the seeming injustices and sins and ignorant acts are only the Self's very own lessons and experiences. As fully realized Self, I also watch as the silent witness my very own Self under the veil of Maya, the Self I was and am, yet I am Realized Self too. I see so many people intellectually understand that Shiva remains untainted by Maya, above Maya, and yet allows himself to be under the veil of Maya at the same time, but they just don't live it within the inner Self. Such a soul is lost. Just because we have risen above Maya, it in no way, shape, or form gives us the right to judge those under Maya. The truly Self realized individual sees that the freedom above Maya, and those under the veil of Maya are just as it should be. The lost soul has forgotten this one true lesson, this juncture, and so he/she judges. The liberated soul is true, and remains silent. He/she sees all is as it should be. Much Light Marcus <<<< ----- The CORE of Reality awaits you at: http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html - Poetry, Writings, Live Chat on spiritual topics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 1999 Report Share Posted March 13, 1999 Gemini wrote: > > List, > I have alway's known in my deepest place that the finite must > be allowed to exist. Shiva was all before my realization, and is all > after. This is the critical juncture of the soul. By giving all of me; > my body, heart, soul, belongings, aspirations, mental constructs...all > of me to Nityananda--the eternal ShivaShakti--all finite > representations of me dies. I become one with the absolute. I see that > I started this journey from the lowest underneath Maya to the point of > Self realization of my own free will; that is to say, that Self did > this intentionally to Self with full knowledge. Gloria responds: Self realization without full knowledge wouldn't be realization would it? <Marcus; > Now, if during the realization of the Self I do not give my > finite self totally and completely with pure love, pure bhakti, then > there will be a hybrid combination of Self realization and ego. I will > be Self realized, but the final step, liberation will be out of my > grasp. Assuming I have actually went as far as I can go, my ego begins > picking apart all the seeming ignorances, senseless acts, and > so-called sins. I become judgemental, becoming an ego-god. The world > is imperfect and I make judgements. Gloria: This is what I call sliding off center and losing that interior surrender which can leave an individual thinking they are there when the soul/spirit hasn't become absorbed into Divine Will. By literally surrendering into God the duality evaporates in the process since it is enveloped in Divine Will. The way this is known is there is only one thing going on inside, not two. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 1999 Report Share Posted March 13, 1999 Gloria, Never mistake an intellectual realization for liberation. This is the very mistake I write about. L M Gloria Greco <lodpress < > Cc: heartzen <heartzen Saturday, March 13, 1999 7:29 AM Re: Fw: [Ananda] Self Gloria Greco <lodpress Gemini wrote: > > List, > I have alway's known in my deepest place that the finite must > be allowed to exist. Shiva was all before my realization, and is all > after. This is the critical juncture of the soul. By giving all of me; > my body, heart, soul, belongings, aspirations, mental constructs...all > of me to Nityananda--the eternal ShivaShakti--all finite > representations of me dies. I become one with the absolute. I see that > I started this journey from the lowest underneath Maya to the point of > Self realization of my own free will; that is to say, that Self did > this intentionally to Self with full knowledge. Gloria responds: Self realization without full knowledge wouldn't be realization would it? <Marcus; > Now, if during the realization of the Self I do not give my > finite self totally and completely with pure love, pure bhakti, then > there will be a hybrid combination of Self realization and ego. I will > be Self realized, but the final step, liberation will be out of my > grasp. Assuming I have actually went as far as I can go, my ego begins > picking apart all the seeming ignorances, senseless acts, and > so-called sins. I become judgemental, becoming an ego-god. The world > is imperfect and I make judgements. Gloria: This is what I call sliding off center and losing that interior surrender which can leave an individual thinking they are there when the soul/spirit hasn't become absorbed into Divine Will. By literally surrendering into God the duality evaporates in the process since it is enveloped in Divine Will. The way this is known is there is only one thing going on inside, not two. > ------ Did you know that we have over 85,000 e-mail communities at Onelist? Come visit our new web site and explore a new interest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 1999 Report Share Posted March 13, 1999 Hi Tim, Remember my friend, every single soul will become Self realised. You said it very succinctly; "nobody can save their sould but themSelves. The Self within, Divine Grace will apoint the moment of shaktipat. Rejoice that this one is this far. And remember, love everything you see and hear, think and do; love all with equanimity; this is the body of Shiva--we all of us have personal friends, but they are no more or less Divine Chiti than the pesky neighbor next door. Your friend is Divine Chiti as well; take no pity on him. The whole issue will resolve of its own accord. Trust in this. L M Tim Gerchmez <fewtch < > Saturday, March 13, 1999 6:55 AM Re: Fw: [Ananda] Self Tim Gerchmez <fewtch Thanks so much, this is a "keeper" and I'm saving it. I have met at least one person who is stuck at that critical juncture you mention, who is not liberated, who continues to mercilessly judge the world of Maya, and thus ultimately loses Himself. In fact, this person does so aggressively on Usenet. I wish He could see your message; however he might discount it. He is stuck into the judgemental pattern so strongly that there's little possibility for release in this lifetime. Your description of a "hybrid" combination of Self-Realization and ego fits this person "To a T." However, nobody can save their souls but themselves. Perhaps it doesn't matter whether or not this person sees your message. Still, love makes me wish fervently that He would look at and examine it. Tim At 07:29 PM 3/12/99 -0000, you wrote: >>>> List, I have alway's known in my deepest place that the finite must be allowed to exist. Shiva was all before my realization, and is all after. This is the critical juncture of the soul. By giving all of me; my body, heart, soul, belongings, aspirations, mental constructs...all of me to Nityananda--the eternal ShivaShakti--all finite representations of me dies. I become one with the absolute. I see that I started this journey from the lowest underneath Maya to the point of Self realization of my own free will; that is to say, that Self did this intentionally to Self with full knowledge. Now, if during the realization of the Self I do not give my finite self totally and completely with pure love, pure bhakti, then there will be a hybrid combination of Self realization and ego. I will be Self realized, but the final step, liberation will be out of my grasp. Assuming I have actually went as far as I can go, my ego begins picking apart all the seeming ignorances, senseless acts, and so-called sins. I become judgemental, becoming an ego-god. The world is imperfect and I make judgements. BUT, if I have given the finite self up completely, I become completely Self realized, and realize in the process that this is the Self I intentionally became ignorant of, and in my joy I see that all is just as I left it, just as it should be. All the seeming injustices and sins and ignorant acts are only the Self's very own lessons and experiences. As fully realized Self, I also watch as the silent witness my very own Self under the veil of Maya, the Self I was and am, yet I am Realized Self too. I see so many people intellectually understand that Shiva remains untainted by Maya, above Maya, and yet allows himself to be under the veil of Maya at the same time, but they just don't live it within the inner Self. Such a soul is lost. Just because we have risen above Maya, it in no way, shape, or form gives us the right to judge those under Maya. The truly Self realized individual sees that the freedom above Maya, and those under the veil of Maya are just as it should be. The lost soul has forgotten this one true lesson, this juncture, and so he/she judges. The liberated soul is true, and remains silent. He/she sees all is as it should be. Much Light Marcus <<<< ----- The CORE of Reality awaits you at: http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html - Poetry, Writings, Live Chat on spiritual topics. ------ Start a new hobby. Meet a new friend. Onelist: The leading provider of free email list services Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 1999 Report Share Posted March 13, 1999 Tim, Magnificent. You see with Divine intuition. The jnani understands that the Divine knowing of jnana must precede the divine will of iccha. Anupaya exists, although rare. There are incarnations of divine will that are born established in satchidananda; such is Nityananda. L M Tim Gerchmez <fewtch < > Sunday, March 14, 1999 4:49 AM Re: Fw: [Ananda] Self Tim Gerchmez <fewtch At 03:49 PM 3/13/99 -0000, you wrote: >>>> Gloria, Never mistake an intellectual realization for liberation. This is the very mistake I write about. <<<< Intellectual realization is certainly not liberation; however, for most there can be no liberation without at least some intellectual realization first. I say "for most" because of the existence of some people who have sudden, drastic experiences of total liberation (which I believe is what Jerry Katz refers to as "Absolute Nondualism" in his FAQ). I don't envy such people, usually the experience is highly unpleasant, and initially generates much fear and confusion - people who have had such experiences regard them as akin to "nuclear explosions" or "A bomb going off inside every cell of the body" There are certainly many paths to liberation, some "longer but easier," some "shorter but more difficult." The way I see it, liberation is actually liberation FROM the intellect, from the 'me', and no amount of intellectual understanding can free anybody. The 'main path' I'm on - jnana, which requires precise, absolute and uncompromising separation of Truth from falsehood, subsumes itself completely after Moksha and is gone. When there's nothing left to realize, why keep on realizing it? :-) With Love, Tim >>>> ----- The CORE of Reality awaits you at: http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html - Poetry, Writings, Live Chat on spiritual topics. ------ We are proud as punch of our new web site! Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 1999 Report Share Posted March 13, 1999 At 03:49 PM 3/13/99 -0000, you wrote: >>>> Gloria, Never mistake an intellectual realization for liberation. This is the very mistake I write about. <<<< Intellectual realization is certainly not liberation; however, for most there can be no liberation without at least some intellectual realization first. I say "for most" because of the existence of some people who have sudden, drastic experiences of total liberation (which I believe is what Jerry Katz refers to as "Absolute Nondualism" in his FAQ). I don't envy such people, usually the experience is highly unpleasant, and initially generates much fear and confusion - people who have had such experiences regard them as akin to "nuclear explosions" or "A bomb going off inside every cell of the body" There are certainly many paths to liberation, some "longer but easier," some "shorter but more difficult." The way I see it, liberation is actually liberation FROM the intellect, from the 'me', and no amount of intellectual understanding can free anybody. The 'main path' I'm on - jnana, which requires precise, absolute and uncompromising separation of Truth from falsehood, subsumes itself completely after Moksha and is gone. When there's nothing left to realize, why keep on realizing it? :-) With Love, Tim >>>> ----- The CORE of Reality awaits you at: http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html - Poetry, Writings, Live Chat on spiritual topics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 1999 Report Share Posted March 13, 1999 At 03:57 PM 3/13/99 -0000, you wrote: >>>> Hi Tim, Remember my friend, every single soul will become Self realised. <<<< Yes, this is in Vivekananda's message as well, that eventually ALL souls will attain Moksha, that in fact the entire universe is "struggling for liberation." I like the way he put it. >>>> You said it very succinctly; "nobody can save their sould but themSelves. The Self within, Divine Grace will apoint the moment of shaktipat. <<<< Yes, absolutely agreed. >>>> Rejoice that this one is this far. And remember, love everything you see and hear, think and do; love all with equanimity; <<<< I do - I find that I cannot help it and need no prompting :-). Even approaching the Reality seems to bring up choiceless Love within me for all creatures, and for all people. Sometimes it's almost overwhelming, the love experienced. When I sign my messages "With Love," I think few understand how deeply I mean it, how it wells up from deep within me without choice, a kind of "mad love" without limits, for all people and all of life. >>> The whole issue will resolve of its own accord. Trust in this. <<<< Thank you, I do, and it's always good to have this reminder as well. >>>> With Love, Tim ----- The CORE of Reality awaits you at: http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html - Poetry, Writings, Live Chat on spiritual topics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 1999 Report Share Posted March 14, 1999 At 11:20 PM 3/13/99 -0000, you wrote: >>>> <excerpt><fontfamily><param>Verdana</param>Tim, Magnificent. You see with Divine intuition. </fontfamily></excerpt><<<<<<<< Thank you Marcus, but don't tempt the ego that strongly ;-) I appreciate the kind words, but ego tries to make a grab at them. Self: "Down, boy!" ego: "Woof! Woof! In Humor, Tim >>>> ----- The CORE of Reality awaits you at: http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html - Poetry, Writings, Live Chat on spiritual topics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 1999 Report Share Posted March 14, 1999 HA! Tim Gerchmez <fewtch < > Sunday, March 14, 1999 6:20 AM Re: Fw: [Ananda] Self Tim Gerchmez At 11:20 PM 3/13/99 -0000, you wrote: >>>> Tim, Magnificent. You see with Divine intuition. <<<< Thank you Marcus, but don't tempt the ego that strongly ;-) I appreciate the kind words, but ego tries to make a grab at them. Self: "Down, boy!" ego: "Woof! Woof! In Humor, Tim >>>> ----- The CORE of Reality awaits you at: http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html - Poetry, Writings, Live Chat on spiritual topics. ------ To from this mailing list, or to change your subscription to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at and select the Member Center link from the menu bar on the left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.