Guest guest Posted March 21, 1999 Report Share Posted March 21, 1999 My beautiful and wonderful friends, it is a joy to be in your presence. Thanks Martin for your posts on Nityananda and thanks Jerry for mentioning the Nityananda posts on a's sister list NondualitySalon. O.K. The big sister list :--). Let me thank people on both lists especially Jan for that wonderful and funny poetry. Wecome back to our friend Tim Harris. Thanks Maria Martini, Peter Lima, Sandeep, Andrew, Antoine, Carey, Tyagi, Namdrol, Janpa, Jill, Maurine, Dharma, Gloria, Gill, Bruce, Linda, Sam, Ah Sam, Gene Poole, Jerry, Freda, Peter, KKT, KK, and so many others for your company in silence and in words. We lost around 5 members in the last few days on a including Marcus and Phil Burton. Perhaps due to some controversial posts. And this is alright. They are good people and might be back. I would like to remind people that the basis of list is the discussions on various philosophies and metaphysical systems including but not limited to Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Janisim, etc. People of all beliefs and faiths are welcome. Typical topics are Self-Realization or God Realization, Kundalini Shakti, various Shiva and Shakit Traditions and different spiritual teachers and related topics. All of these discussions are in the context of Philosophy of Non-Violence. Of course good humor, wit, and even sarcasm are appreciated as they make us laugh and smile. But we can all recognize when the parameters are being crossed (and recently they have been) and need to be sensitive to that. A big hug and an embrace to everyone. We are looking for a few good men and women. Join us if this list seems right to you. Does anyone remember the show Kojak. He was always saying "Hey! Who loves you baby?" Love Harsha /.cgi/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 1999 Report Share Posted March 21, 1999 Dear Harsha: I think thanks are in order to you and Jerry of the 'big sister' list for the work you do in keeping these lists going. Long ago when I started my conscious journey I read 'Autobiography of a Yogi' and was really impressed by the fact that Yogananda was able to adjust, internally, his body temperature to suit the external climate. Much later I was taught that eventually on the journey we also go beyond the elements. To me that explained Yogananda's ability to adjust to any climatic temperature. As I move along towards the goal it is obvious that there are so many levels to enlightenment and for each step I take I know there is yet another but I believe that each step is an enlightenment in itself. My education began a long time ago with an interest in how the planets affected us. Through yoga I began to understand that everything in the universe is contained within each of us. The past few days on the 'net' were a classical example of how the planetary energies are within us as Mars and Mercury are in apparent retrograde motion. The angry and often confusing communications are typical of Mars and Mercury in erratic motion. A simple way of seeing the universe within ourselves. This chapter appears to be at it's end and it is ironic to me that no how much we learn the basic truths of love and non-judgement that taught to us as children appear to be the best guidelines that human beings have for getting along with each other. Thanks for listening. Namaste, Linda Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar) [hluthar] Sunday, March 21, 1999 4:02 PM ; NondualitySalon Re: Thanks and Welcome back "Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar My beautiful and wonderful friends, it is a joy to be in your presence. Thanks Martin for your posts on Nityananda and thanks Jerry for mentioning the Nityananda posts on a's sister list NondualitySalon. O.K. The big sister list :--). Let me thank people on both lists especially Jan for that wonderful and funny poetry. Wecome back to our friend Tim Harris. Thanks Maria Martini, Peter Lima, Sandeep, Andrew, Antoine, Carey, Tyagi, Namdrol, Janpa, Jill, Maurine, Dharma, Gloria, Gill, Bruce, Linda, Sam, Ah Sam, Gene Poole, Jerry, Freda, Peter, KKT, KK, and so many others for your company in silence and in words. We lost around 5 members in the last few days on a including Marcus and Phil Burton. Perhaps due to some controversial posts. And this is alright. They are good people and might be back. I would like to remind people that the basis of list is the discussions on various philosophies and metaphysical systems including but not limited to Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Janisim, etc. People of all beliefs and faiths are welcome. Typical topics are Self-Realization or God Realization, Kundalini Shakti, various Shiva and Shakit Traditions and different spiritual teachers and related topics. All of these discussions are in the context of Philosophy of Non-Violence. Of course good humor, wit, and even sarcasm are appreciated as they make us laugh and smile. But we can all recognize when the parameters are being crossed (and recently they have been) and need to be sensitive to that. A big hug and an embrace to everyone. We are looking for a few good men and women. Join us if this list seems right to you. Does anyone remember the show Kojak. He was always saying "Hey! Who loves you baby?" Love Harsha /.cgi/ ------ Is ONElist important to you? Has it changed your life? Come visit our new web site and share with us your stories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 1999 Report Share Posted March 21, 1999 Linda Callanan wrote: > "Linda Callanan" <shastra > > Dear Harsha: > > I think thanks are in order to you and Jerry of the 'big sister' list for > the work you do in keeping these lists going. > > Long ago when I started my conscious journey I read 'Autobiography of a > Yogi' and was really impressed by the fact that Yogananda was able to > adjust, internally, his body temperature to suit the external climate. Much > later I was taught that eventually on the journey we also go beyond the > elements. To me that explained Yogananda's ability to adjust to any climatic > temperature. > > As I move along towards the goal it is obvious that there are so many levels > to enlightenment and for each step I take I know there is yet another but I > believe that each step is an enlightenment in itself. My education began a > long time ago with an interest in how the planets affected us. Through yoga > I began to understand that everything in the universe is contained within > each of us. The past few days on the 'net' were a classical example of how > the planetary energies are within us as Mars and Mercury are in apparent > retrograde motion. The angry and often confusing communications are typical > of Mars and Mercury in erratic motion. A simple way of seeing the universe > within ourselves. > > This chapter appears to be at it's end and it is ironic to me that no how > much we learn the basic truths of love and non-judgement that taught to us > as children appear to be the best guidelines that human beings have for > getting along with each other. > > Thanks for listening. > > Namaste, > Linda Harsha: Thanks for your wise and kind words Linda. We need this kind of stability. As Jan has pointed out, if something or someone throws us off balance, it is a great opportunity to learn. And as Gloria has noted, when we truly have surrendered to the Lord of Love or call Him what you wish, then we are rooted in the Infinite Being. Linda, we take things as they come, live the best we can, and are grateful for the Presence of Love in our life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 1999 Report Share Posted March 21, 1999 Gloria Greco: I like to remind everyone that a large part of awakening is learning detachment so that it becomes automatic to be the witness. These little flare ups are ebb and flow... and yes, it would be nice if it never had to happen, we have to realize that spirit is in charge and perhaps it is only a test to see who can come through it in love and still in silence. If we agree to simply not take things personally, or take sides but remain in observation... it is easy to be the witness and give each member the space he/she needs to work his/her process. Some folks don't turn things over to God until they find their face smashed into a brick wall, others can see the disturbance and stay in the witness role WITHOUT JUDGMENT and it simply evaporates out of the nothingness it came from. It is up to us how we handle this. As Harsha said, love is the answer...and to really have this unconditonal love we must accept that whatever comes our way is perfect. In this you stay in detachment and simply flow with whatever is there as the witness, not thinking or debating but observing. Non-duality is about union is it not? Therefore all is love and perfect, sometimes it just looks and feels different. Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar) wrote: > > "Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar > > My beautiful and wonderful friends, it is a joy to be in your presence. > Thanks Martin for your posts on Nityananda and thanks Jerry for mentioning > the Nityananda posts on a's sister list NondualitySalon. O.K. > The big sister list :--). Let me thank people on both lists especially Jan > for that wonderful and funny poetry. Wecome back to our friend Tim Harris. > Thanks Maria Martini, Peter Lima, Sandeep, Andrew, Antoine, Carey, Tyagi, > Namdrol, Janpa, Jill, Maurine, Dharma, Gloria, Gill, Bruce, Linda, Sam, Ah > Sam, Gene Poole, Jerry, Freda, Peter, KKT, KK, and so many others for your > company in silence and in words. We lost around 5 members in the last few > days on a including Marcus and Phil Burton. Perhaps due to > some controversial posts. And this is alright. They are good people and > might be back. I would like to remind people that the basis of > list is the discussions on various philosophies and > metaphysical systems including but not limited to Hinduism, Buddhism, > Taoism, Janisim, etc. People of all beliefs and faiths are welcome. Typical > topics are Self-Realization or God Realization, Kundalini Shakti, various > Shiva and Shakit Traditions and different spiritual teachers and related > topics. All of these discussions are in the context of Philosophy of > Non-Violence. Of course good humor, wit, and even sarcasm are appreciated as > they make us laugh and smile. But we can all recognize when the parameters > are being crossed (and recently they have been) and need to be sensitive to > that. A big hug and an embrace to everyone. We are looking for a few good > men and women. Join us if this list seems right to you. Does anyone remember > the show Kojak. He was always saying "Hey! Who loves you baby?" > > Love > Harsha > /.cgi/ > > ------ > Is ONElist important to you? Has it changed your life? > > Come visit our new web site and share with us your stories -- Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher. Gloria Joy Greco e-mail me at : lodpress and visit our homepages at: http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/ & http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/ Hope you enjoy them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 1999 Report Share Posted March 22, 1999 Hi Linda, >> ....Through yoga >> I began to understand that everything in the universe is contained within >> each of us. The past few days on the 'net' were a classical example of how >> the planetary energies are within us as Mars and Mercury are in apparent >> retrograde motion. The angry and often confusing communications are typical >> of Mars and Mercury in erratic motion. The spring equinox was Saturday at 8:46 pm EST... the Sun's entry into Aries... end of a cycle and the beginning of a new cycle. Love, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 1999 Report Share Posted March 22, 1999 Gloria Greco wrote: > Gloria Greco: > I like to remind everyone that a large part of awakening is learning > detachment so that it becomes automatic to be the witness. These little > flare ups are ebb and flow... and yes, it would be nice if it never had > to happen, we have to realize that spirit is in charge and perhaps it is > only a test to see who can come through it in love and still in silence. > If we agree to simply not take things personally, or take sides but > remain in observation... it is easy to be the witness and give each > member the space he/she needs to work his/her process. Some folks don't > turn things over to God until they find their face smashed into a brick > wall, others can see the disturbance and stay in the witness role > WITHOUT JUDGMENT and it simply evaporates out of the nothingness it came > from. It is up to us how we handle this. > As Harsha said, love is the answer...and to really have this > unconditonal love we must accept that whatever comes our way is perfect. > In this you stay in detachment and simply flow with whatever is there as > the witness, not thinking or debating but observing. > Non-duality is about union is it not? Therefore all is love and > perfect, sometimes it just looks and feels different. Harsha: Thanks much Gloria for your healing message. As I said to Linda earlier we need this type of stability and strength in the group. I appreciate your being here. Frankly, I don't know what I am doing in terms of managing the list. So any and all support and/or advice is deeply appreciated and helpful. Thanks to everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 1999 Report Share Posted March 23, 1999 Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar) wrote: GG I left this on because it is connected, my post is on the bottom for those of you who have already read it. > > "Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar > > Gloria Greco wrote: > > > Gloria Greco: > > I like to remind everyone that a large part of awakening is learning > > detachment so that it becomes automatic to be the witness. These little > > flare ups are ebb and flow... and yes, it would be nice if it never had > > to happen, we have to realize that spirit is in charge and perhaps it is > > only a test to see who can come through it in love and still in silence. > > If we agree to simply not take things personally, or take sides but > > remain in observation... it is easy to be the witness and give each > > member the space he/she needs to work his/her process. Some folks don't > > turn things over to God until they find their face smashed into a brick > > wall, others can see the disturbance and stay in the witness role > > WITHOUT JUDGMENT and it simply evaporates out of the nothingness it came > > from. It is up to us how we handle this. > > As Harsha said, love is the answer...and to really have this > > unconditonal love we must accept that whatever comes our way is perfect. > > In this you stay in detachment and simply flow with whatever is there as > > the witness, not thinking or debating but observing. > > Non-duality is about union is it not? Therefore all is love and > > perfect, sometimes it just looks and feels different. > > Harsha: Thanks much Gloria for your healing message. As I said to Linda earlier we > need this type of stability and strength in the group. I appreciate your being > here. Frankly, I don't know what I am doing in terms of managing the list. So any > and all support and/or advice is deeply appreciated and helpful. Thanks to > everyone. Gloria: I really don't know what you can do to manage it without controlling and this isn't something necessary when it is spirits work. It is up to each person to work from the heart center which produces the fruit that makes it all work...love. Certainly a love centered list can flow with whatever is happening and when necessary lift those who are going through a hard day or so when it comes up. The thing is that folks who are surrendering are also tested so it is only natural that once in a while the union is lost or lets say momentarily misplaced...we can't judge it with other then compassion and tolerance don't you think? The other side of this, is people become afraid to post because they may say something wrong and therefore get flamed. How can one be spontaneous and in flow with what is and sit worrying or guarding what comes to you? I look at it this way, people have to be who they are, if there is a question or something that he/or she is working through if they are not threated or afraid then they can share and receive loving help. If the individual is afraid to expose their true feelings then what you have is a bunch of suppressed people trying to be spiritual. Doesn't work! The heart list is very much like this non-duality list with the exception you have the eastern thread and we have more of the western, but it is really the same. I have found that one person can anything to another when it is from love, which means from the heart. If it is not from the heart, this is when the problems exist. My love goes out to all of you and I certainly hope that we can come together with the love that each of us experiences from union with divine since we are all one. > > ------ > We are proud as punch of our new web site! > > Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services -- Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher. Gloria Joy Greco e-mail me at : lodpress and visit our homepages at: http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/ & http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/ Hope you enjoy them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 1999 Report Share Posted March 23, 1999 Chris Hughes [aird.house] Tuesday, March 23, 1999 4:44 AM Re: Thanks and Welcome back (FWD) Chris Hughes <aird.house Dear Harsha I would not worry about managing the list. You have set the tone of love and respect with humour for all on the list which is why I joined. The ones who appear and do not find what they are looking for will go as they have come. I did not join to promote my belief, for it is mine and as such needs no promotion. It is as it is but I hope subject to growth. My reason for joining is because I am a relativly new (as far as I know )traveller on the spiritual path and remain open to all input. I have learned a lot from the K list and continue to do so and am sure I will from people here. Allready I have had positive advice and "feed back" from several people. Thank you Chris Dear Chris, Thanks for your post. I know you are an open, honest and a sincere person and it is a joy to have you join us. You truly understand the spirit of the list and we need this understanding. I am concerned because some very good and decent people whom I know have left because of the hostility directed at them and some very negative posts that appeared on this list. I do wish to state that highly negative and charged general posts or posts directed in a derogatory personal manner at others are inconsistent with the philosophy of this list. Just because such posts have been tolerated does not mean that such posts are acceptable in the future as they poison the environment of fellowship. Frankly, I do not wish to manage this list on an individual basis. Therefore, I will seek help from others. How about if I form a "Council of Elders" - perhaps 5-7 reasonable people. Decisions about the list can then be made by consensus of this group and decisive action for the benefit of the whole group can be taken when appropriate. Jan is already one of the moderators of the list. I can personally request others to see if they would be willing to volunteer their time and efforts. If anyone has feedback on this idea, please post it publicly on the list. Thanks. Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 1999 Report Share Posted March 23, 1999 Dear Harsha: It is unfortunate that such a proposal must be considered. Given the past days I would have to support a council. Generally, I am quick with the delete button but must admit that I've thought of unsubscribing recently rather than spend time waiting for such an influx of angry and negative posts to download before I could delete. When I first got on-line I was appalled at the fighting and posts and stayed away from forums for a long time. When I recently found the non-duality and satsangh lists they appeared to be different from the others. It might be prudent to take steps to keep it that way. Thank you. Linda Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar) [hluthar] Tuesday, March 23, 1999 11:08 AM Re: Thanks and Welcome back "Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar Chris Hughes [aird.house] Tuesday, March 23, 1999 4:44 AM Re: Thanks and Welcome back (FWD) Chris Hughes <aird.house Dear Harsha I would not worry about managing the list. You have set the tone of love and respect with humour for all on the list which is why I joined. The ones who appear and do not find what they are looking for will go as they have come. I did not join to promote my belief, for it is mine and as such needs no promotion. It is as it is but I hope subject to growth. My reason for joining is because I am a relativly new (as far as I know )traveller on the spiritual path and remain open to all input. I have learned a lot from the K list and continue to do so and am sure I will from people here. Allready I have had positive advice and "feed back" from several people. Thank you Chris Dear Chris, Thanks for your post. I know you are an open, honest and a sincere person and it is a joy to have you join us. You truly understand the spirit of the list and we need this understanding. I am concerned because some very good and decent people whom I know have left because of the hostility directed at them and some very negative posts that appeared on this list. I do wish to state that highly negative and charged general posts or posts directed in a derogatory personal manner at others are inconsistent with the philosophy of this list. Just because such posts have been tolerated does not mean that such posts are acceptable in the future as they poison the environment of fellowship. Frankly, I do not wish to manage this list on an individual basis. Therefore, I will seek help from others. How about if I form a "Council of Elders" - perhaps 5-7 reasonable people. Decisions about the list can then be made by consensus of this group and decisive action for the benefit of the whole group can be taken when appropriate. Jan is already one of the moderators of the list. I can personally request others to see if they would be willing to volunteer their time and efforts. If anyone has feedback on this idea, please post it publicly on the list. Thanks. Harsha ------ We are proud as punch of our new web site! Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 1999 Report Share Posted March 23, 1999 -----As a fairly silent lurker on this list, I would have to say that the majority of people on this list contribute thoughtful and meaningful posts. There are some, however, who seem to use the list to act from the solar plexus almost exclusively, acting out their repressions or whatever. It seems that the attention that these individuals repeatedly demand is now being given exclusively, which is what they were aiming for in the first place. Rather than accomodating these demanding children, perhaps just a non-dual delete as silent treatment would be equally effective with less energy expended and less satisfaction for those who would tempt our minds, emotions and time. Let's get back to where we once belonged. Just a thought. Michael> >------ >If you like orange and blue, then you will love our new web site! > >Onelist: Fostering connections and information exchange > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 1999 Report Share Posted March 23, 1999 the role of moderators is not to judge, or meddle, but to nudge and wiggle folks into some semblance of order. if moderation means judging every post as 'postworthy' , then its not an honest attempt at moderation, but an attempt at channeling into what is acceptable and what is not. the obvious 'unacceptable's are ad-hominem argumentation, downright out flaming, abusive talk etc. the less obvious are: offtopic posting, chatty posting, argumentative posting. in a list i have helped run over the years we have an unwritten '3 strikes' sort of rule. if enough people complain about one list memeber, they get booted. its happened maybe 3 times in 5 years. All 3 times, it was one member who was 1) a mysogenist proving his points in an abusive way, 2) a so-called 'zen master' who decided we all needed 'teaching'. Cant remember the third. maitri, --janpa the villiage idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 1999 Report Share Posted March 23, 1999 > How about if I form a "Council of Elders" - perhaps 5-7 reasonable people. Yes. This is a good idea Harsha. However, might I add a wrinkle? I would suggest that these moderators, as you say, should be asked to fulfill this role but I would like to add the that the names (or nicks) of the moderators be kept in confidence by you yourself. This would divert favortism and conflict among the moderators and the posters of the group. It is difficult to form into camps if no one knows who the camp leaders are. Just a suggestion. Regards Tim Harris -- For more information on the CASUAL ENLIGHTENMENT METHOD please visit: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/4908/index.html ICQ # 34365156 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 1999 Report Share Posted March 23, 1999 Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar) wrote: > > "Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar > > > Chris Hughes [aird.house] > Tuesday, March 23, 1999 4:44 AM > > Re: Thanks and Welcome back (FWD) > > Chris Hughes <aird.house > > Dear Harsha > I would not worry about managing the list. You have set the tone > of love and respect with humour for all on the list which is why I joined. > The ones who appear and do not find what they are looking for will > go as they have come. > I did not join to promote my belief, for it is mine and as such needs > no promotion. It is as it is but I hope subject to growth. My reason > for joining is because I am a relativly new (as far as I know > )traveller on the spiritual path and remain open to all input. I have > learned a lot from the K list and continue to do so and am sure I > will from people here. > Allready I have had positive advice and "feed back" from several people. > Thank you > Chris > > Dear Chris, Thanks for your post. I know you are an open, honest and a > sincere person and it is a joy to have you join us. You truly understand the > spirit of the list and we need this understanding. I am concerned because > some very good and decent people whom I know have left because of the > hostility directed at them and some very negative posts that appeared on > this list. I do wish to state that highly negative and charged general posts > or posts directed in a derogatory personal manner at others are inconsistent > with the philosophy of this list. Just because such posts have been > tolerated does not mean that such posts are acceptable in the future as they > poison the environment of fellowship. Frankly, I do not wish to manage this > list on an individual basis. Therefore, I will seek help from others. How > about if I form a "Council of Elders" - perhaps 5-7 reasonable people. > Decisions about the list can then be made by consensus of this group and > decisive action for the benefit of the whole group can be taken when > appropriate. Jan is already one of the moderators of the list. I can > personally request others to see if they would be willing to volunteer their > time and efforts. If anyone has feedback on this idea, please post it > publicly on the list. Thanks. > > Harsha GG Harsha, This is an idea, even something more powerful is a discussion of how and why these debates end up going in this direction. Is this not about right and wrong? A real understanding of spirit is that spirit moves the dance when people are coming from love in the heart. When love does the work from the heart center...you can move through things that would normally be considered negative but isn't when love is the manifesting element. Then it becomes the responsiblity of each person to stay in love to the best of their ability. Love means non judgment, caring, accepting the other person where they are without wanting to change them in any way. Love also means reflecting and witnessing to see if there is a reaction of any kind going on. If there is, the individual is in the solar plexus and moved out of the heart. Life is the teacher, when people try to control things from I think, I want, I feel...it really separates from the whole and it says that God can't talk about certain things. Even the lower self is ultimately a reflection of what is, is this not true? So how can we create barriers to the flow. What we create is the atmosphere for the discussion, the atmosphere is where the commitment from each person comes in, it is a commitment to speak from the heart as the witness in self reflect and not look at someone else as being to blame no matter what happens. No right or wrong. Not to get down into the personality stuff, but to remain the witness. I have worked with a group for many years now here in Reno. I can tell you this works perfectly when each person understands that no other person can be to blame for any discomfort experienced by a person. When the person recognizes this and they are reacting, all they have to do is see they are in a reaction/defensive and they know immediately they are in the solar plexus. They then know they got involved, they then notice how defensive they are...let go and the negative energy leaves immediately. This ability to see the frequency change is all one needs. This then is not about right and wrong, but about growth, understanding how subtle the ego is at stealing the energy and taking control. We have an unspoken agreement in our group, when a person is in this state...a spin. It is the individuals responsiblity to say...I am involved right now. I have to let go now, I will reflect on this and then we will talk about it some more when I'm not reacting. This is where it stops. Its over. When the discussion returns to the object of the reaction, the individual usually brings it up and shares what happened in that moment. The real atmosphere that this works in is that of no-judgment. Individuals have to be committed to his/her witness observation process. Gloria > > ------ > We are proud as punch of our new web site! > > Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services -- Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher. Gloria Joy Greco e-mail me at : lodpress and visit our homepages at: http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/ & http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/ Hope you enjoy them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 1999 Report Share Posted March 23, 1999 > "Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar > > Gloria Greco wrote: > > > Gloria Greco: > > I like to remind everyone that a large part of > awakening is learning > > detachment so that it becomes automatic to be the witness. These little > > flare ups are ebb and flow... and yes, it would be nice if it never had > > to happen, we have to realize that spirit is in charge and perhaps it is > > only a test to see who can come through it in love and still in silence. > > If we agree to simply not take things personally, or > take sides but > > remain in observation... it is easy to be the witness and give each > > member the space he/she needs to work his/her process. Some folks don't > > turn things over to God until they find their face smashed into a brick > > wall, others can see the disturbance and stay in the witness role > > WITHOUT JUDGMENT and it simply evaporates out of the nothingness it came > > from. It is up to us how we handle this. > > As Harsha said, love is the answer...and to really have this > > unconditonal love we must accept that whatever comes our way is perfect. > > In this you stay in detachment and simply flow with whatever is there as > > the witness, not thinking or debating but observing. > > Non-duality is about union is it not? Therefore all is love and > > perfect, sometimes it just looks and feels different. > > Harsha: Thanks much Gloria for your healing message. As I said to > Linda earlier we > need this type of stability and strength in the group. I > appreciate your being > here. Frankly, I don't know what I am doing in terms of managing > the list. So any > and all support and/or advice is deeply appreciated and helpful. Thanks to > everyone. Jan: No managing at all like it is now, is preferable as moderating a list takes a lot of time and could bring its own set of problems. It would however be able to filter out "offending" posts. As an alternative, one could eventually mention the possibility of it in the introductory message so that the phenomenon is recognized and things can stay as they are. It would be unrealistic to suppose that everyone is immune to offense and also not everyone is able to realize all feelings, generated by stimuli are pointing to some kind of veil, separating from one's real nature. Then, this list is called HarshaSatsang and as a rule, a Satsang is harmonious. As not judging can be interpreted as a judgment in itself, the above is just food for thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 1999 Report Share Posted March 23, 1999 Linda Callanan wrote: > > "Linda Callanan" <shastra > > Dear Harsha: > > It is unfortunate that such a proposal must be considered. Given the past > days I would have to support a council. Generally, I am quick with the > delete button but must admit that I've thought of unsubscribing recently > rather than spend time waiting for such an influx of angry and negative > posts to download before I could delete. When I first got on-line I was > appalled at the fighting and posts and stayed away from forums for a long > time. When I recently found the non-duality and satsangh lists they > appeared to be different from the others. It might be prudent to take steps > to keep it that way. > > Thank you. > Linda Gloria: Linda probably speaks for the majority of people now on the list. When that negative energy gets in and then people start to react it is very uncomfortable. What makes it uncomfortable however, is that the individual allows it to move them from the heart when the anger/fear, confusion, anxiety starts, down to the solar plexus where the mind and confusion is. If the individual leaves their computer feeling confused then of course he/she is going to consider leaving that list. This is normal. But it doesn't have to be a negative...if the individual says...oops I got involved here. Stop, breathe, and let go...thy will and not mine. It is over. I suggest every person going into the list sits for a moment making the commitment to 'thy will and not mine,' so that when the test is there you have already made the decison to witness and not get into solar plexus energy. My suggestion is this. Instead of entering into the debate, each individual make the commitment to only observe, witness what is happening...no matter what it is (without judgment.) A part of this realization is that each person is responsible for his/her state...if the individual in reaction remembers this (self remembering) the next step is to stop...breathe... observe/detach, & within a second it is over because the illusion is removed. When it affects others...which is what normally happens...the wave becomes bigger and the domino effect has started. We can counteract this simply by being the witness without judgment no matter what comes up. A part of this realization is the knowledge that even this is God's Will and we must move with the force until it is back to clarity for the whole. The nature of our times is we live at the point when detachment and the ability to remain the witness...just as in meditation...( the witness is the higher self) if important. I can't say this to strong...this teaching is of the utmost value. Our lists for some is the only access they have to this information, and thus can be the training ground to learn the ability to discern, detach and know love only comes from the heart... If we aren't in any conversation trying to change a mind, or be right...there is no reason to be self involved. We come into these discussions as spirit moves us...knowing that God within each of us is working to create something behond the world of the senses. We are in essence a soul family...meeting out of body at night...and choosing to bring it down to our conscious mind during the day. My heart tells me this issue is at the heart of the ability to use these lists to serve each other and manifest God's Will. We have to come into the state of transcending the ego/self at least in principle for those who have not yet experience it. I am not saying that there isn't purpose for the lower self to come into these conversations because it is a real part of the individuals experience. What I'm saying, we can use these moments as valuable teachings rather then points of pain and disgust, and then as a source to create negative energy of any kind. It takes us into the essence of the human conditon, to deny the human condition is to only fantasize about spirituality. We then become more of the problem then the solution because we haven't lifted the vibrations from the love that is in us from the Higher Knowing. We have to embrace life with all of its gross parts and through love and understanding choose to be one in spirit...no matter what. I don't know that this is clear but this is an important subject that really is at the heart of every list. How do we create the non-duality state to move with love when it is the only frequency capable of doing the work. My love to all of you. Gloria > > - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 1999 Report Share Posted March 23, 1999 Hello Harsha, and list, << How about if I form a "Council of Elders" - perhaps 5-7 reasonable people. Decisions about the list can then be made by consensus of this group and decisive action for the benefit of the whole group can be taken when appropriate. Jan is already one of the moderators of the list. I can personally request others to see if they would be willing to volunteer their time and efforts. If anyone has feedback on this idea, please post it publicly on the list. Thanks. Harsha >> A story comes back to my mind that touched me, it's a wise man who touched me deeply, when i was 18, that first told it to me. It's about 4 peoples talking about shoes, at the entry of a Temple. One says to the three other's: "I take off my shoes here, but bring them with me in the Temple in a bag, not to tempt the poor man, passing, from wanting to steal them. I take away that temptation from him." The other's says: "I bring shoes of no values so i can leave them like others at the entry of the Temple. In this way, they will not tempt anyone from steeling them more than others, and i won't have have to worry about having them stolen while i pray in the Temple". The third one say's: "I put my most magnificent shoes, and leave them with the others at the entry. If they get stolen by someone, it's Gods will. I make myself the most beautiful to God, He takes what he want's." The fourth man say's "All this time you where talking about your shoes, and why to bring them or not, you have not seen all those people with no shoes, that passed without looking at them even once, just wanting to go pray inside, blinded by their faith." I enjoy pretty much this story, it shows many side of myself. Enjoy, Antoine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 1999 Report Share Posted March 23, 1999 At 05:00 AM 3/24/99 +0100, you wrote: >GG >My feeling is we take it as a good lesson and prccess it into >transformation. How can it be anything other then perfect? I'm willing to join with this idea fully. I know that you are all My Own Selves, and if I hurt You, I hurt myself as well. It would give me joy to take this negative experience and make of it something positive, to allow myself to transform, to know Self better as a result, along with everyone else here. This was not an opportunity that was given me on Jerry's list. I was just instantly and roughly booted off. If the List Membership would be willing to give me and everyone this gift, that of allowing this to become a positive thing, I would be very grateful. With Love, Tim ----- The CORE of Reality awaits you at: http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html - Poetry, Writings, Live Chat on spiritual topics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 1999 Report Share Posted March 23, 1999 Jan's post on memes and Gloria's fine response to Tim have got me thinking. There may be a built-in difficulty to a list that is organized around Self-Realization that reflects some of the paradoxes I, at least, find in the process itself. We are understandably anxious to talk about the Realization, the Goal that we finally have to give up even holding as a goal, so we discuss a truth that is Here but, for some of us, is still felt to be There (whew, this is hard to explain!). I know Jan and others have had the Grace to have gotten There in one fell swoop, but I and I'm guessing some others are experiencing this strange dual consciousness where I'm There and then I'm back here in time, in process. There is much that is astonishing in process-land: seeing God in my husband, watching trees shimmer, feeling Silence slowly but surely spread across my body. There is much that is difficult in process-land, too: soft grief with each letting go, isolation, the struggle to surrender. Maybe because we focus so much on the Here/There, we get caught up in arguments about absolutes and a necessary space in which to look at process collapses and gets lost. Don't know what to do about all this except maybe keep it in mind. Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 1999 Report Share Posted March 23, 1999 This raises an interesting question in my mind: Can ANYBODY know for sure whether another person is "There" or not? Just putting some time into the whole thing, one eventually learns the drill and is able to talk the talk. The human ego is "cunning, baffling and powerful," and could potentially even fool an "INDIVIDUAL" into thinking he/she is "There." If it's sometimes difficult to be sure on an PERSONAL level whether or not oneself is Realized, surely it's IMPOSSIBLE to judge whether *another* person is Realized or not? Just questioning, Tim At 07:31 PM 3/23/99 -0600, you wrote: >hbarrett (Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D.) > >Jan's post on memes and Gloria's fine response to Tim have got me >thinking. There may be a built-in difficulty to a list that is >organized around Self-Realization that reflects some of the paradoxes >I, at least, find in the process itself. We are understandably anxious >to talk about the Realization, the Goal that we finally have to give up >even holding as a goal, so we discuss a truth that is Here but, for >some of us, is still felt to be There (whew, this is hard to explain!). >I know Jan and others have had the Grace to have gotten There in one >fell swoop, but I and I'm guessing some others are experiencing this >strange dual consciousness where I'm There and then I'm back here in >time, in process. ----- The CORE of Reality awaits you at: http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html - Poetry, Writings, Live Chat on spiritual topics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 1999 Report Share Posted March 23, 1999 Dear Harsha Thank you for your kind comments to my post. Regarding the managing of the list. Having thought about the hopes and aspirations of the founder of the list which I share. I considered what would work and Tim mentioned 12step program. I was a performing alchoholic for ten years then went to A.A. for some years and have been sober twenty a day at a time. I am now secure in the knowledge that my Higher Power loves me or I would be still drinking or dead. Having this security to be a witness to my own actions emotions and those of others did not come over night but it would take a lot to hurt me now as I know what I am, the Atma. As yet I have not had the experience of meeting my inner self in meditation but through the the example of those who are more experienced on the list I hope that through meditation to find what they have found. What I am trying to say is that people join this list at different levels and every effort should be made to accomodate them up to a point. It was necessary for me to experience all kinds of difficulties to become reasonably balanced and it took years so I cant point the finger at those still strugling. If I could give the example of how the AA group of which I was a member worked so well. Each night saw a different chair person picked from the ones who were more experienced, then it was passed round the room for people to speak. some were new and very angry and were allowed to let of steam for a short time. Then the chair would say I know how you feel as I was there my self perhaps I could pass the meeting to Bob who I know has had a similasr experience to the one you have had. Then Bob would say what worked for him when he was at that stage of recovery and possibly what he does now in similar situations. At no time was a member told what to do or talked down to it was a sharing of experience strength and hope. Somtimes a member would turn up drunk, as long as they were not agressive or too long winded it was tolerated but if it started to be a habit then they would be met before the got into the room and advised not to come back for a week. If there was a repeat performance then for the good of the group they were not allowed back. Basically what I am saying is that the people who are more experienced on this list and post regularly should continue to lead by example and no get drawn into personality clashes. Sugestions no matter how well meant can cause offence to some people. It is good however to quote what your Guru said or you read in a book. What you used yourself. If all else fails and the person offends to the point where there are requests from quite a few people that they shold leave the list then if a word in their ear by personal e mail fails then they must leave. I am going back to lurking now. Chris Sai Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 1999 Report Share Posted March 23, 1999 Tim Gerchmez wrote: > Tim Gerchmez <fewtch > > This raises an interesting question in my mind: Can ANYBODY know for sure > whether another person is "There" or not? Just putting some time into the > whole thing, one eventually learns the drill and is able to talk the talk. > The human ego is "cunning, baffling and powerful," and could potentially > even fool an "INDIVIDUAL" into thinking he/she is "There." If it's > sometimes difficult to be sure on an PERSONAL level whether or not oneself > is Realized, surely it's IMPOSSIBLE to judge whether *another* person is > Realized or not? > > Just questioning, > > Tim > Good questions Tim. My experience says that if one points to 'here' I suggest there is no here. If someone says 'there' I suggest there is no 'there'. Here and There require points of reference. If nothing moves but the mind, then how do you reference 'here' without 'there'? How do you know where 'there' is if there is no 'here'? If a realized person says that you must go 'there' to 'become' he is wrong. If a realized person says that you must be 'here' to be realized then it is in relation to 'his' here which is your 'there'. Again, it can not be done. I know this sounds like Grover on Sesame Street but it is the best way I know how to explain it. All you need concern yourself with is where you are and where you are going. Because you can never truely know where you are and you can never truely know where you are going. There is no 'way'! There are many paths but there is no way. Regards. Tim Harris -- For more information on the CASUAL ENLIGHTENMENT METHOD please visit: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/4908/index.html ICQ # 34365156 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 1999 Report Share Posted March 23, 1999 jb wrote: > Jan: No managing at all like it is now, is preferable as moderating a list > takes a lot of time and could bring its own set of problems. It would > however be able to filter out "offending" posts. As an alternative, one > could eventually mention the possibility of it in the introductory message > so that the phenomenon is recognized and things can stay as they are. It > would be unrealistic to suppose that everyone is immune to offense and also > not everyone is able to realize all feelings, generated by stimuli are > pointing to some kind of veil, separating from one's real nature. Then, this > list is called HarshaSatsang and as a rule, a Satsang is harmonious. As not > judging can be interpreted as a judgment in itself, the above is just food > for thought. GG My feeling is we take it as a good lesson and prccess it into transformation. How can it be anything other then perfect? > > ------ > Is ONElist important to you? Has it changed your life? > > Come visit our new web site and share with us your stories -- Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher. Gloria Joy Greco e-mail me at : lodpress and visit our homepages at: http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/ & http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/ Hope you enjoy them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 1999 Report Share Posted March 23, 1999 Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D. wrote: > > hbarrett (Holly N. Barrett, Ph.D.) GG Beautiful post Holly. You have said a lot here. When the conversation moves from the heart to the intellect the love drains out. There is no way of figuring out spirit, it is all letting go and flowing and accepting what is. The other thing that is neat about it though...everytime people come together relationship builds. Transformation comes from relationship. God works in mysterious ways. > > Jan's post on memes and Gloria's fine response to Tim have got me > thinking. There may be a built-in difficulty to a list that is > organized around Self-Realization that reflects some of the paradoxes > I, at least, find in the process itself. We are understandably anxious > to talk about the Realization, the Goal that we finally have to give up > even holding as a goal, so we discuss a truth that is Here but, for > some of us, is still felt to be There (whew, this is hard to explain!). > I know Jan and others have had the Grace to have gotten There in one > fell swoop, but I and I'm guessing some others are experiencing this > strange dual consciousness where I'm There and then I'm back here in > time, in process. There is much that is astonishing in process-land: > seeing God in my husband, watching trees shimmer, feeling Silence > slowly but surely spread across my body. There is much that is > difficult in process-land, too: soft grief with each letting go, > isolation, the struggle to surrender. Maybe because we focus so much > on the Here/There, we get caught up in arguments about absolutes and a > necessary space in which to look at process collapses and gets lost. > Don't know what to do about all this except maybe keep it in mind. > Holly > > ------ > Ideas on how we can improve ONElist? > > Check out the Suggestion Box feature on our new web site -- Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher. Gloria Joy Greco e-mail me at : lodpress and visit our homepages at: http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/ & http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/ Hope you enjoy them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 1999 Report Share Posted March 23, 1999 Dear Holly, The paradoxes of which you speak are indeed familiar to most of us. I have come to the conclusion that once one chooses to move consciously along towards non-duality, enlightenment, merging, union with God etc. they are going to confront what's in the mind that prevents them from oneness. That can be a painful and at times totally confusing process. While it is important to be detached and to come from a place of love and compassion there must also be discrimination. The mind is what needs to be worked with in order to move beyond to a higher level of awareness. Do we really serve someone by feeding into a mental state that is angry, unreasonable or offensive? Is it true compassion that looks the other way? I must admit I'm not sure as to the answer of keeping the list peaceful though I liked Jan's gentle reminder as to a Satsang being harmonious. I believe that if I were visiting this and the non-duality list for the first time last week I would have d rather quickly. For myself, I had a hard time keeping up with sorting through and deleting, I put certain messages aside to look at later and finally gave up and just cleaned out everything. It is not lack of love or compassion that leads me towards thinking that we must have something in place to keep order. It is more a matter of keeping to the purpose of the lists. Anyway that is my take on this situation. Namaste, Linda Holly: >Jan's post on memes and Gloria's fine response to Tim have got me >thinking. There may be a built-in difficulty to a list that is >organized around Self-Realization that reflects some of the paradoxes >I, at least, find in the process itself. We are understandably anxious >to talk about the Realization, the Goal that we finally have to give up >even holding as a goal, so we discuss a truth that is Here but, for >some of us, is still felt to be There (whew, this is hard to explain!). >I know Jan and others have had the Grace to have gotten There in one >fell swoop, but I and I'm guessing some others are experiencing this >strange dual consciousness where I'm There and then I'm back here in >time, in process. There is much that is astonishing in process-land: >seeing God in my husband, watching trees shimmer, feeling Silence >slowly but surely spread across my body. There is much that is >difficult in process-land, too: soft grief with each letting go, >isolation, the struggle to surrender. Maybe because we focus so much >on the Here/There, we get caught up in arguments about absolutes and a >necessary space in which to look at process collapses and gets lost. >Don't know what to do about all this except maybe keep it in mind. Holly ------ Ideas on how we can improve ONElist? Check out the Suggestion Box feature on our new web site Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 1999 Report Share Posted March 24, 1999 Dear Harsha, Good Morning. I am very new to this list. However, I am not new to Spiritual Enlightenment. I have resisted most of the negativism in this world and have maintained a positive outlook on all the different versions of the Spiritual Path that come my way. I just read a conversation between you and Chris over your conserns over managing some of the negativity that passes through here. Although I am so very, very new, I know that I am at home with this list. It has been a long search for me to find such a wonderful place to share. I would like you to keep me in mind for assistance with managing. I have the time, (in the mornings) (E.S.T.) and the desire to help. Thank you, Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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