Guest guest Posted March 23, 1999 Report Share Posted March 23, 1999 Dear Harsha, Lately I've been hostile to some list members, and went overboard with some of my postings. I believe I owe you and everyone on the list an apology for this. Perhaps an apology is not enough considering some of the things I've said, but it's all I have to offer. Every Now is different for me. Sometimes I find that, in the process of living, passions overwhelm. This can cause problems. I have an Aunt who was recently diagnosed with esophageal cancer. This affected my emotional state to the point where I let "grief" turn into misdirected anger at others on the list. This is a lesson I still have not learned; to "control myself" on mailing lists, Usenet, etc. It's a serious character flaw partially due to the fact that I see so few people "in person." But this is part of the reason why I'm so devoted to Self-Realization, because in the lack of attachment to these things lies the ultimate solution to the problem. I'm not there yet, but am "working on it." The people who left the list will be back, things will "go back to normal." If it was me running the list, I would say "It doesn't matter. What is it that matters in life...?" But perhaps you feel differently. Sometimes Love (or sadness, or grief) drives me to passion, to starkly seeing some perceived hypocrisies in others. It's the reaction to seeing this that needs to be controlled. Lies need not be told, but not all things need to be said in an aggressive fashion that drives others away, either. This list was huge. It's still big, I'm assuming. People will be back. People will ALWAYS come and go, whether there's a "Tim Gerchmez" here or not. Emotions will come and go. Thoughts will come and go. Threads will come and go. But Self will never go, and will never come, because it is already here. It is eternal. Even physical death does not erase It. In the face of the immensity of Self, I look back on the past of my actions, and it doesn't look serious, except in my concern for you and your doubts about how to run the list. Nothing looks too serious. When my Aunt dies, it will not be serious. Self (Brahman) is the one thing that never, ever changes. It is still here on this list. There are not multiple people here. There is One Self. If you feel anger toward me for my postings, please express it, do not deny it. I would welcome a personal Email, and will not be insulted by rage or anger or hurt, because this is a normal reaction to my foolishness. With Love, and apology, Tim ----- The CORE of Reality awaits you at: http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html - Poetry, Writings, Live Chat on spiritual topics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 1999 Report Share Posted March 23, 1999 At 04:51 AM 3/24/99 +0100, you wrote: >Gloria: > An apology from the heart is like a vase full of roses. If it isn't >from the heart is like a vase full of dead roses. To a certain extent, an apology is what the person reading it interprets it to be. Yes, I'm sorry from the Heart for disrupting this list, although in pure and absolute honesty (from the Heart), I can't guarantee that it will never happen again. I can't control the future, or what I may do in the future. The future is a nonexistent, imaginary concept. All I can do is to do my best to learn from this current mistake. This particular mistake has been one that's been VERY tough for me to learn from, in the past. But the past is dead and gone as well. Your own heart is the vase. I can put fresh roses in it. But if there's no sustaining water, the roses will wither. Take my apology as you will. I can do no more than offer it in love. It took me ten minutes to type and edit this message. If I didn't mean it, I wouldn't have bothered. >Gloria: > You are also using people to help you process since you don't have >anyone near you who gives you the opportunity to relate and process. You're right, and it's unfair of me to do so. I recognize this completely. But often I have trouble "seeing the forest from the trees." >> The people who left the list will be back, things will "go back to normal." >> If it was me running the list, I would say "It doesn't matter. What is it >> that matters in life...?" But perhaps you feel differently. > >GG >This comes across pretty harsh, is this the way you mean it? I know you >are expressing your form of detachment, but this is coming across as >though you don't care. I'm just expressing how I would deal with it if it happened on a list for which I happened to be moderator. I didn't mean it to come across harshly. >GG >Your realizing this is a step, what can you do to bring it into your >experience? Can you observe and watch yourself so that the next time the >temptation to let loose overtakes you... perhaps you can neutralize it >before it manifests. Yes. >This doesn't justify ever hurting another person >smugly. No, there is never a justification for doing this. Thus, this apology. I'm not apologizing out of fear of being kicked off the list. I'm apologizing because I'm sorry for disrupting the list. As for hurting others, though, I have to speak from the heart again, with my own level of detachment, as you say - I think people, if handed a poisoned apple, can choose to take a bite, or not. This is not "real life," I didn't shoot someone or stab anybody or even slap the back of anyone's hand or raise my (real) voice to someone. I just used some unpleasant words in a typed format. If this statement of fact detracts from my apology, I can't help it, it's the way I feel. Tim ----- The CORE of Reality awaits you at: http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html - Poetry, Writings, Live Chat on spiritual topics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 1999 Report Share Posted March 23, 1999 Tim Gerchmez wrote: > > Tim Gerchmez <fewtch > > Dear Harsha, > > Lately I've been hostile to some list members, and went overboard with some > of my postings. I believe I owe you and everyone on the list an apology > for this. Perhaps an apology is not enough considering some of the things > I've said, but it's all I have to offer. Gloria: An apology from the heart is like a vase full of roses. If it isn't from the heart is like a vase full of dead roses. > > Every Now is different for me. Sometimes I find that, in the process of > living, passions overwhelm. This can cause problems. I have an Aunt who > was recently diagnosed with esophageal cancer. This affected my emotional > state to the point where I let "grief" turn into misdirected anger at > others on the list. This is a lesson I still have not learned; to "control > myself" on mailing lists, Usenet, etc. It's a serious character flaw > partially due to the fact that I see so few people "in person." But this > is part of the reason why I'm so devoted to Self-Realization, because in > the lack of attachment to these things lies the ultimate solution to the > problem. I'm not there yet, but am "working on it." Gloria: You are also using people to help you process since you don't have anyone near you who gives you the opportunity to relate and process. This is something we all have to recognize. When an individual lives with a mate, children, even parents...they are with someone who plays a part in their life which provides a service to that person. When an individual is alone, it is very different. Day to day things are not worked through in the ordinary processing, very often it is the little things that will increase the anxiety. And because of this...one tends to become isolated and blocked. The fact that we as a group can assist by being that person who cares is meaningfull providing it is real. > > The people who left the list will be back, things will "go back to normal." > If it was me running the list, I would say "It doesn't matter. What is it > that matters in life...?" But perhaps you feel differently. GG This comes across pretty harsh, is this the way you mean it? I know you are expressing your form of detachment, but this is coming across as though you don't care. What matters in life is that we treat each person the way we would treat Christ or Buddha. ( Whatever you do to the least of these...you do unto me.) > > Sometimes Love (or sadness, or grief) drives me to passion, to starkly > seeing some perceived hypocrisies in others. It's the reaction to seeing > this that needs to be controlled. Lies need not be told, but not all > things need to be said in an aggressive fashion that drives others away, > either. GG Your realizing this is a step, what can you do to bring it into your experience? Can you observe and watch yourself so that the next time the temptation to let loose overtakes you... perhaps you can neutralize it before it manifests. > > This list was huge. It's still big, I'm assuming. People will be back. > People will ALWAYS come and go, whether there's a "Tim Gerchmez" here or > not. GG It isn't about this. We can rationalize our behavior a million times and it continues, when we find ourselves in a transgression...it is up to each of us to do the work inside so it doesn't happen again. These are omissions. Emotions will come and go. Thoughts will come and go. Threads will > come and go. But Self will never go, and will never come, because it is > already here. It is eternal. Even physical death does not erase It. In > the face of the immensity of Self, I look back on the past of my actions, > and it doesn't look serious, except in my concern for you and your doubts > about how to run the list. Nothing looks too serious. When my Aunt dies, > it will not be serious. Self (Brahman) is the one thing that never, ever > changes. It is still here on this list. There are not multiple people > here. There is One Self. GG Yes, you have some realization of this, but it is the fruit that counts. > > If you feel anger toward me for my postings, please express it, do not deny > it. I would welcome a personal Email, and will not be insulted by rage or > anger or hurt, because this is a normal reaction to my foolishness. G I didn't even notice what was the details, I noticed the after effect. Whatever was said and done has brought up these conversations which really need to be had. This doesn't justify ever hurting another person smugly. > > With Love, and apology, > > Tim > > ----- > The CORE of Reality awaits you at: > http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html - > Poetry, Writings, Live Chat on spiritual topics. > > ------ > If you like orange and blue, then you will love our new web site! > > Onelist: Fostering connections and information exchange -- Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher. Gloria Joy Greco e-mail me at : lodpress and visit our homepages at: http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/ & http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/ Hope you enjoy them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 1999 Report Share Posted March 23, 1999 Tim Gerchmez wrote: > > Tim Gerchmez <fewtch > > At 04:51 AM 3/24/99 +0100, you wrote: > >Gloria: > > An apology from the heart is like a vase full of roses. If it isn't > >from the heart is like a vase full of dead roses. > > To a certain extent, an apology is what the person reading it interprets it > to be. GG I wasn't suggesting that it wasn't from the heart at all...please don't take it that way. What you have said is very beautiful. > > Yes, I'm sorry from the Heart for disrupting this list, although in pure > and absolute honesty (from the Heart), I can't guarantee that it will never > happen again. I can't control the future, or what I may do in the future. > The future is a nonexistent, imaginary concept. All I can do is to do my > best to learn from this current mistake. This particular mistake has been > one that's been VERY tough for me to learn from, in the past. But the past > is dead and gone as well. > > Your own heart is the vase. I can put fresh roses in it. But if there's > no sustaining water, the roses will wither. > > Take my apology as you will. I can do no more than offer it in love. It > took me ten minutes to type and edit this message. If I didn't mean it, I > wouldn't have bothered. > > >Gloria: > > You are also using people to help you process since you don't have > >anyone near you who gives you the opportunity to relate and process. > > You're right, and it's unfair of me to do so. I recognize this completely. > But often I have trouble "seeing the forest from the trees." GG This is what the lists are for. Don't feel bad about it. My goodness, what good is the list if you can only talk about those things that sound right or perfect. We aren't politically correct...we are alive to the moment. > > >> The people who left the list will be back, things will "go back to normal." > >> If it was me running the list, I would say "It doesn't matter. What is it > >> that matters in life...?" But perhaps you feel differently. > > > >GG > >This comes across pretty harsh, is this the way you mean it? I know you > >are expressing your form of detachment, but this is coming across as > >though you don't care. > > I'm just expressing how I would deal with it if it happened on a list for > which I happened to be moderator. I didn't mean it to come across harshly. G Yes, that is why I asked for clarification. > >GG > >Your realizing this is a step, what can you do to bring it into your > >experience? Can you observe and watch yourself so that the next time the > >temptation to let loose overtakes you... perhaps you can neutralize it > >before it manifests. > > Yes. > > >This doesn't justify ever hurting another person > >smugly. > > No, there is never a justification for doing this. Thus, this apology. > I'm not apologizing out of fear of being kicked off the list. I'm > apologizing because I'm sorry for disrupting the list. As for hurting > others, though, I have to speak from the heart again, with my own level of > detachment, as you say - I think people, if handed a poisoned apple, can > choose to take a bite, or not. This is not "real life," I didn't shoot > someone or stab anybody or even slap the back of anyone's hand or raise my > (real) voice to someone. I just used some unpleasant words in a typed > format. If this statement of fact detracts from my apology, I can't help > it, it's the way I feel. GG It is the way you feel and that is fine. We all have an opportunity to transform whatever comes up. Look at it this way...if souls can come together across space and time to reach out, overcome obstacles, and find love in their hearts for each other....Perhaps, there is still hope that the world will find the way as well. > > Tim > > ----- > The CORE of Reality awaits you at: > http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html - > Poetry, Writings, Live Chat on spiritual topics. > > ------ > Did you know that we have over 85,000 e-mail communities at Onelist? > > Come visit our new web site and explore a new interest -- Enter The Silence to Know God ... and... accept life as the teacher. Gloria Joy Greco e-mail me at : lodpress and visit our homepages at: http://users.intercomm.com/larryn/ & http://www.freeyellow.com/members/zg888/ Hope you enjoy them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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