Surrender

[Guest guest]

.... Surrender comes down to two words, being and stillness. In Talks Ramana

says: "Your duty is to be, and not to be this or that..I am that I am sums up

the whole truth. The method is summed up in 'Be Still'" (Talks p333) The

stillness and being which Ramana speaks coexist with each other and reveal

themselves in their full radience whenever interest in one's thought stream

dries up. Thus, for Ramana, the practice of surrender is to find within oneself

this feeling of beingness and surrender oneself completely to it.

 

On this level of surrender practice consists , of giving up wrong ideas by

refusing to give them attention. Ramana says "the removal of ignorance is the

aim of practice and not acquisition of Realisaton." (Talks p322) ... it is only

wrong ideas that separate us from a full awareness of our natural state. The

practice is the fruit of the conviction that there is nothing to surrender, for

by denying attention to the mental processes, one is finally surrendering the

erroneous idea that there is an individual self to surrender.

 

When one attempts to practice this conviction by putting attention on the

feeling of being that is within us, thoughts and desires will initially continue

to flow at their normal rate, but if attention is maintained over a period of

time, the density of thoughts decreases, and in the space between them, there

emerges the clarity, the stillness and the peace of pure being. Occasionally

this stillness and this peace will expand and intensify until a point is reached

where no effort is needed to sustain this awarenes of being. The attention

merges imperceptively with the being itself, and the occasional stray thoughts

no longer have the power to distract.

 

When this point of surrender has been reached, all the ignorant misperceptions

which constitute the illusory ego have disappeared, but htis is not the final

state of Realisation, because the misconceptions are only in suspension, and

sooner or later, they will emerge again. Ramana has stated that the final ,

definitive elimination of ignorance is a matter for Self. He says that efort can

only take one to a certain point, and then the Self takes over and takes one to

the goal.

 

In the case of surrender, the initial effort is the shifting of one's attention

from the world of thoughts to the feeling of being. When there is no attention

on it, the mind subsides revealing the being from which it came, then in some

mysterious way, the Self eliminates the residual ignorance and Realisation

dawns. Ramana summed up it up neatly when he said, "Just keep quiet and Bhagavan

will do the rest"( Ramana Maharshi and the Path of Self-Knowledge, p147)

 

This shifting of attention is the ultimate act of surrender.....

 

 

K.Swaminathan

The Unity of Surrender and Self Enquiry.

The Mountain Path, Vol 18, no1 1981

[Guest guest]

> ... Surrender comes down to two words, being and stillness. In Talks

>Ramana says: "Your duty is to be, and not to be this or that..I am that I

>am sums up the whole truth. The method is summed up in 'Be Still'" (Talks

>p333) The stillness and being which Ramana speaks coexist with each other

>and reveal themselves in their full radience whenever interest in one's

>thought stream dries up. Thus, for Ramana, the practice of surrender is

>to find within oneself this feeling of beingness and surrender oneself

>completely to it.

 

Forgive me a quibble... but these words seem overly complicated. _Being_

is not finding a feeling within oneself and surrendering to a feeling...

it is just Being. It is not putting attention on a feeling. It is not

thinking... not feeling... not putting attention on a feeling... just

Being. "Just keep quiet..."

>On this level of surrender practice consists , of giving up wrong ideas

>by refusing to give them attention. Ramana says "the removal of ignorance

>is the aim of practice and not acquisition of Realisaton." (Talks p322)

>... it is only wrong ideas that separate us from a full awareness of our

>natural state. The practice is the fruit of the conviction that there is

>nothing to surrender, for by denying attention to the mental processes,

>one is finally surrendering the erroneous idea that there is an

>individual self to surrender. When one attempts to practice this

>conviction by putting attention on the feeling of being that is within

>us, thoughts and desires will initially continue to flow at their normal

>rate, but if attention is maintained over a period of time, the density

>of thoughts decreases, and in the space between them, there emerges the

>clarity, the stillness and the peace of pure being. Occasionally this

>stillness and this peace will expand and intensify until a point is

>reached where no effort is needed to sustain this awarenes of being. The

>attention merges imperceptively with the being itself, and the occasional

>stray thoughts no longer have the power to distract. When this point of

>surrender has been reached, all the ignorant misperceptions which

>constitute the illusory ego have disappeared, but htis is not the final

>state of Realisation, because the misconceptions are only in suspension,

>and sooner or later, they will emerge again. Ramana has stated that the

>final , definitive elimination of ignorance is a matter for Self. He says

>that efort can only take one to a certain point, and then the Self takes

>over and takes one to the goal. In the case of surrender, the initial

>effort is the shifting of one's attention from the world of thoughts to

>the feeling of being. When there is no attention on it, the mind subsides

>revealing the being >from which it came, then in some mysterious way, the

>Self eliminates the residual ignorance and Realisation dawns. Ramana

>summed up it up neatly when he said, "Just keep quiet and Bhagavan will

>do the rest"( Ramana Maharshi and the Path of Self-Knowledge, p147)

>This shifting of attention is the ultimate act of surrender.....

> K.Swaminathan The Unity of Surrender and Self Enquiry. The Mountain

>Path, Vol 18, no1 1981

[Guest guest]

Mic wrote:

> On this level of surrender practice consists , of

>giving up wrong ideas by refusing to give them >attention. Ramana says "the

>removal of ignorance is the aim of practice and not >acquisition of

>Realisaton." (Talks p322) ... it is only wrong ideas >that separate us from

>a full awareness of our natural state. The practice is >the fruit of the

>conviction that there is nothing to surrender, for by >denying attention to

>the mental processes, one is finally surrendering the >erroneous idea that

>there is an individual self to surrender.

 

 

These are timely words for me, Mic. Up until

recently whenever one of those 'wrong ideas'

would arise, I would give it my full attention

....the thought being that once the emotions

attached to those thoughts were neutralized, the

thoughts would simply float freely.

 

Though it has served someone like me (who had

a bushel and a peck full of unresolved issues

keeping me in bondage) I'm seeing now that

the time has come to withdraw attention from

them, rather than giving them a healing focus.

 

Perhaps I needed a certain amount of dis-entangling

before I could simply withdraw attention from such

thoughts, I don't know. It simply feels like 'time'

for me to begin the practice as you describe.

 

Thank you for this.

 

> When one attempts to practice

>this conviction by putting attention on the feeling of being that is

>within us, thoughts and desires will initially continue to flow at their

>normal rate, but if attention is maintained over a period of time, the

>density of thoughts decreases, and in the space between them, there

>emerges the clarity, the stillness and the peace of pure being.

 

I think I hear what you're saying here. I can

either focus on that feeling of expandedness

and inner stillness, or I can focus on the thoughts

that arise. Focusing on the thoughts tends to

lead me out of my Self, while focusing on that

rather blistful sensing I experience (which I

call Soul's Presence) I then find my self

absorbed into It.

 

>Occasionally this stillness and this peace will expand and intensify until

>a point is reached where no effort is needed to sustain this awarenes of

>being. The attention merges imperceptively with the being itself, and the

>occasional stray thoughts no longer have the power to distract.

 

 

Yes, it's like the dew drop loving

the feeling of being caressed by the ocean, and

as it focuses on that feeling soon it simply melts

into It. Is that like what you were conveying?

 

> When

>this point of surrender has been reached, all the ignorant misperceptions

>which constitute the illusory ego have disappeared, but htis is not the

>final state of Realisation, because the misconceptions are only in

>suspension, and sooner or later, they will emerge again.

 

 

Yes, they do. Again this says it so well. They are

simply in suspension.

 

>Ramana has stated

>that the final , definitive elimination of ignorance is a matter for Self.

>He says that efort can only take one to a certain point, and then the Self

>takes over and takes one to the goal. In the case of surrender, the

>initial effort is the shifting of one's attention from the world of

>thoughts to the feeling of being. When there is no attention on it, the

>mind subsides revealing the being from which it came, then in some

>mysterious way, the Self eliminates the residual ignorance and Realisation

>dawns. Ramana summed up it up neatly when he said, "Just keep quiet and

>Bhagavan will do the rest"( Ramana Maharshi and the Path of

>Self-Knowledge, p147) This shifting of attention is the ultimate act of

>surrender..... K.Swaminathan The Unity of Surrender and Self

>Enquiry. The Mountain Path, Vol 18, no1 1981

 

 

This part brings tears to my eyes.

Again, thank you for it.

 

Love,

Melody

[Guest guest]

To anyone who has the time,

 

I am new to this list, but I am not new to the search for "surrender"

I have never taken any formal classes in Yoga, Buddhism or Self, etc..

Yet there is something innate in me that understands all I read and hear on

the subjects. There are times that I achieve a "balance" a "oneness" a kind

of "Peace and Connection" with ALL of my surroundings.

 

There are times when I falter!! Times when I feel that I have let "ego" take

control. I am miserable when this happens. I search for "grace" and

sometimes it is hard to get back there.

 

Does "surrender" apply here? Have you been able to get "ego" completely out

of your existence? Is getting rid of "ego" the equivalent of "surrendering"?

 

And Is getting rid of "ego" saying that we were made imperfect? Ego is ours.

If we are to believe that we are perfect, then why are we ignoring or getting

rid of that part of us?

 

Excuse me for sounding confused. Sometimes, I am.

 

With great respect for your insights,

Laura

[Guest guest]

Hi David,

 

Thank you for responding. You said,

 

"Wonderful, aren't we? Did you achieve this oneness or rediscover it?"

 

I rediscovered it. As a child it was always there. As an adult, through my

readings and desire and faith, I have found it again.

 

You said, "When I was a child there was a monster who lived under my bed.

Today it is no longer there.

I did not get rid of anything."

 

I remember that monster too. You have given me food for thought. Thank you.

It seems to be exactly what I needed today.

 

Laura

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/26/99 12:58:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,

dorf01 writes:

> Someone comes up to you and asks you down the barrel of a .22 rifle,

>

> "Show me your true self!"

>

> what do you do?

>

Actually Debora,

 

This happened to me.

I was the person that a bank robber used as an example to frighten the rest

of the bank personnel. The robber held a shotgun to my eye and said a few

threatening words about blowing my head off. I remember thinking how big the

hole in the top of the gun looked.

 

I didn't make a matter to me. I did not believe that "God" was going to let

this man shoot me. I was not afraid, instead I got angry and argued with

this fellow. In retrospect, my energy was much more "powerful" then his. He

went about what he wanted to do and left.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/26/99 12:55:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,

fewtch writes:

> You're not alone! :-)

And this, most of all, is why joining this list was right for me.

 

Thank you for taking the time.

 

Laura

[Guest guest]

Hello Laura, welcome.

 

LTRIA wrote:

> There are times that I achieve a "balance" a "oneness" a kind

> of "Peace and Connection" with ALL of my surroundings.

 

Wonderful, aren't we? Did you achieve this oneness or rediscover it?

> There are times when I falter!!

 

Faltering is but merely forgetting this unity and seeing something else in it's

place.

> Times when I feel that I have let "ego" take

> control. I am miserable when this happens.

 

Ah, there's a lesson here. Fire hurts to touch for a reason I suppose.

> I search for "grace" and sometimes it is hard to get back there.

 

Of course it is.

It's very difficult to attempt to get back to where you've never left.

> Does "surrender" apply here? Have you been able to get "ego"

completely out

> of your existence?

 

Well who on earth could get rid of ego?

> Is getting rid of "ego" the equivalent of "surrendering"?

 

Get rid of something that's not there?

> And Is getting rid of "ego" saying that we were made imperfect?

 

Believe in the fall from grace then this will dictate the experience regardless

whether the belief is true or not.

> Ego is ours.

> If we are to believe that we are perfect, then why are we ignoring or getting

> rid of that part of us?

 

When I was a child there was a monster who lived under my bed.

Today it is no longer there.

I did not get rid of anything.

 

David

(ghostbuster)

[Guest guest]

Dear Laura,

 

At 09:24 AM 3/26/99 EST, you wrote:

>LTRIA

>

>To anyone who has the time,

>

>I am new to this list, but I am not new to the search for "surrender"

>I have never taken any formal classes in Yoga, Buddhism or Self, etc..

 

Same here. Never a single formal class, or formal guru. Nevertheless, the

experience of 'you or I' is no less valid than that of a person who has

taken a thousand such classes, or spent 50 years with a guru. It may,

however, be more "challenging" to get back to our roots, to realize the

Self that is Us ("The I that is we," to borrow a phrase). I've found

reading books to be very helpful, as well as participation with others on

these lists, and perusing web pages. The Self makes a perfectly good guru,

and in fact, a "real" guru simply acts as a mirror or reflection of the

Self we already are.

>Yet there is something innate in me that understands all I read and hear on

>the subjects.

 

That something is called "Higher Self," or Atman, and is shared with every

living creature on the planet. Some even feel that everything is

conscious, including inanimate objects (a view held by some American Indian

tribes). I tend to agree.

>There are times that I achieve a "balance" a "oneness" a kind

>of "Peace and Connection" with ALL of my surroundings.

>

>There are times when I falter!! Times when I feel that I have let "ego"

take

>control. I am miserable when this happens.

 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with faltering in realization. It's the

misery that's got to go. Laura, you can't beat yourself up for being

human. Realize that the misery simply reinforces and strengthens that

sense of ego, taking you even further away from that sense of balance.

>I search for "grace" and

>sometimes it is hard to get back there.

 

As David Bozzi stated (and I'll restate), the state of balance you mention

is actually the state we're in all the time, but unaware of it. All you're

experiencing is a simple fluctuation in your awareness of that "inner

balance" or "sense of One-ness." Realize this, and be free from misery.

You can't lose or find your nose or your feet or your hands. Neither can

you lose Oneness. You *ARE* Oneness.

>Does "surrender" apply here? Have you been able to get "ego" completely out

>of your existence? Is getting rid of "ego" the equivalent of

"surrendering"?

 

David says there is no ego, although ego is a very real thing to many

people. Yes, surrender applies, and renunciation of attachment

(especially to material possessions and pleasures of the senses as a goal

in itself).

>And Is getting rid of "ego" saying that we were made imperfect? Ego is ours.

 

Ego is an artificial construct. It is natural and normal to the human

condition, but it consists of nothing but "hot air." It isn't real. It's

the sum total of our past experiences (which are now gone), dreamings,

imaginings, etc. To "get rid of it" is simply to deny the reality of it

and know it for what it "is."

>Excuse me for sounding confused. Sometimes, I am.

 

You're not alone! :-)

 

With Love,

 

Thy Own Self,

Tim

 

 

-----

The CORE of Reality awaits you at:

http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html -

Poetry, Writings, Live Chat on spiritual topics.

[Guest guest]

Someone comes up to you and asks you down the barrel of a .22 rifle,

 

"Show me your true self!"

 

what do you do?

 

 

--dao

[Guest guest]

At 11:58 AM 3/26/99 -0600, you wrote:

>"Debora A. Orf" <dorf01

>

>Someone comes up to you and asks you down the barrel of a .22 rifle,

>

>"Show me your true self!"

>

>what do you do?

 

Drop my pants? <LOL>...

 

No, really. I would pull out that handy pocket mirror I keep around, give

it to him, and invite him to gaze into it as much as he liked.

 

Tim

 

 

-----

The CORE of Reality awaits you at:

http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html -

Poetry, Writings, Live Chat on spiritual topics.

[Guest guest]

Hey janpa!

>

>Someone comes up to you and asks you down the barrel of a .22 rifle,

>

>"Show me your true self!"

>

>what do you do?

 

 

Is this the $64,000 Question?

 

Or is the next line, "Smile! You're on Candid Camera!" ))

[Guest guest]

> "Debora A. Orf" <dorf01

>

> Someone comes up to you and asks you down the barrel of a .22 rifle,

>

> "Show me your true self!"

>

> what do you do?

 

Nothing (equals "ignore" for the onlooker).

>

> --dao

[Guest guest]

"jb" <kvy9

At 01:36 AM 3/27/99 -0000, you wrote:

> Someone comes up to you and asks you down the barrel of a .22 rifle,

>

> "Show me your true self!"

>

> what do you do?

>

>>Nothing (equals "ignore" for the onlooker).

>>

>> --dao

 

HAH!.. tell us another tale...

 

 

-----

The CORE of Reality awaits you at:

http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html -

Poetry, Writings, Live Chat on spiritual topics.

[Guest guest]

> Tim Gerchmez <fewtch

>

>

> "jb" <kvy9

> At 01:36 AM 3/27/99 -0000, you wrote:

>

> > Someone comes up to you and asks you down the barrel of a .22 rifle,

> >

> > "Show me your true self!"

> >

> > what do you do?

> >

> >>Nothing (equals "ignore" for the onlooker).

> >>

> >> --dao

>

> HAH!.. tell us another tale...

 

I don't have to, as it has happened. In the mid sixties my eldest sister and

I were having a holiday in Dubrovnik (former Yugoslavia). I wanted to be

alone for some days and a nice trip through the countryside was chosen,

despite the advice one shouldn't travel alone in an area where hardly anyone

speaks a foreign language and a different alphabet (Cyrillic) was used too.

 

The train left in the evening but soon halted at a place called Xym. People

were gesturing the next train would leave the next day and there wasn't a

hotel. All of a sudden, a big man appeared and gestured to follow him. He

led me to a small cottage, lightened by a tiny bulb, offered a glass of

slivovitch (strong stuff) and went into another room. When he came back, he

was carrying a big double-barreled gun, pointing at me. Satisfied with the

joke, he handed the rifle to me, ransacked the cottage for food and showed

an album of hunting trophies, many photos of shot wolfs and bears and some

oldies from the partizan resistance against Hitler. We communicated until

the early hours; there remained some 3 hours of sleep for us.