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On Fri, 02 Apr 1999 20:26:45 -0800 Tim Gerchmez <fewtch

writes:

>Tim Gerchmez <fewtch

>

>

>Dear List(s),

>

>Despite detachment, dispassion and all that, the escalating violence

>in

>Yugoslavia is beginning to affect me. If we are truly all One, then

>what

>is done in one part of the world, to just one person, affects each one

>of

>us, and thousands upon thousands of people are suffering and fighting

>and

>raging over this war. It cannot help but begin to touch even the

>most

>dispassionate among us eventually, if one has even a shred of a heart

>inside.

>

>I am truly and deeply saddened and depressed over the situation.

>Three

>American soldiers are held in captivity, and have obviously been

>beaten

>senseless. There is little chance of them being released anytime

>soon,

>although Milosevich doesn't dare kill them. Downtown Belgrade is in

>flames. Thousands have been displaced from their homes and torn from

>their families, and hundreds more per day.

>

This last is the real tragedy

-- the *hundreds of thousands*

of refugees pouring into Albania

and Macedonia, countries so

poor that their own citizens

are among the most destitute in

Europe. Physical destruction

can be repaired, for all their

obvious suffering the American

soldiers are trained, volunteer

professionals who know the

risks inherent in their duties,

but the wholesale, often

murderous rousting of the

Kosovar Albanians comprises

suffering on a massive and

wrenching scale.

 

Tim rightly points to the whole

morass as a case of ego gone

amok, but it's a complex, multi-

level phenomenon. Milosevich is

using the ethnic/religious

identity of his constituents

(make no mistake about it, the

man has substantial support and

the skills to cultivate it) to

manipulate them into atrocity.

Drawing on centuries of Serbian

repression and the consequent

multi-generational resentments,

he motivates the Soviet-equipped

Yugoslavian military to reassert

ancestral "rights" to sovereignty

over traditionally "Serbian"

territory (Kosovo has few Serb

inhabitants, but figures

prominently in Serbian history)

and dominion over the non-Serbs

therein.

 

The question is, can there be

any positive outcome without a

radical change in consciousness

of both leaders and those who are

lead? Is there any solution in

the externalized law of fear and

obedience, or is any such activity

a temporary bandage over a wound

that will almost certainly

hemorrhage again within the next

few months or years, if not in the

perennially bleeding Balkans, then

perhaps in the Middle East, the

north of Ireland, the quietly

seething Indian subcontinent, or

at the always-tense 38th parallel

between a Korea that starves under

inflexible leadership and another

that feeds the insatiable western

appetite for manufactured goods?

>ALL OF THIS... starting from the actions of just *one ego*. THINK

>ABOUT

>THAT. I'm positive that Milosevich wouldn't care if the entire world

>were in flames, as long as he kept his position of power.

>

Millions of Serbs (the other

Balkan ethnicities are no better,

but the Serbs have the military

hardware) are so resentful (like

the "good" Germans of the 1930s)

that they are more than willing

to follow. Without this

complicity of *millions* of

wounded, security-seeking

egos, Milosevich would be a

powerless clown.

>Let this be a lesson to us all: EGO KILLS. The ego of Milosevich,

>the ego of the U.N. delegates,

 

The U.N. has nothing to with

it -- *this* time.

>the ego of President Clinton.

 

I wonder if he really has any

choice, and if the real tragedy

of Kosovo could have really been

stopped by any measure available

to NATO -- aren't the "economic"

sanctions on the already-

tyrannized people of Iraq and

Cuba just a somewhat quieter

version of the very same violence

that rains deadly ordnance down

on Belgrade and Pristina?

>These egos are

>killing thousands.

 

Yes, and it is yet another

iteration of the identity-based

conflict that has persisted

throughout human history --

there is really nothing new or

even extraordinary about it, and

*that* is the underlying

tragedy of which the Kosovo

crisis is only the current

expression. Without a radical

and widespread shift in human

consciousness, it cannot and will

not end.

>Even though it may be all on the level of 'maya', and

>all these nonexistent egos are killing these people who are incapable

>of dying on the level of Self, the suffering is very real. Very, very

>real indeed to the people who are experiencing it.

>

You bet!

>In Pain,

>

>Tim

>

Right there with you!

Bruce

 

 

http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm

http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm

m(_ _)m

_

 

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At 12:45 AM 4/3/99 -0500, you wrote:

>Bruce Morgen <editor

>This last is the real tragedy

>-- the *hundreds of thousands*

>of refugees pouring into Albania

>and Macedonia, countries so

>poor that their own citizens

>are among the most destitute in

>Europe.

 

I agree... this is the most tragic part of the whole scenario. Also, men

are supposedly being separated from their families and carried away in

trucks (presumably to be killed), while women and children are being forced

over the border. This, also, is tragic in the extreme. The forced breakup

of family structure is one of the most destructive acts that can be

perpetrated on the human psyche.

>Tim rightly points to the whole morass as a case of ego gone

>amok, but it's a complex, multi-level phenomenon. Milosevich is

>using the ethnic/religious identity of his constituents

(make no mistake about it, the man has substantial support and

>the skills to cultivate it) to manipulate them into atrocity.

 

Echoes of the "Third Reich?" The situation has been compared to Pol Pot

and the past situation in Cambodia, but it appears to me to more concretely

reflect Hitler's Germany of the 1940's. Perhaps people are simply

reluctant even to mention Hitler's name, a form of avoidance or "political

correctness."

>The question is, can there be any positive outcome without a

>radical change in consciousness of both leaders and those who are

>lead?

 

The question is essentially moot, as the chances of a "radical change in

consciousness" of the leaders and those who are lead (in this case) is

virtually nil.

>The U.N. has nothing to with it -- *this* time.

 

I doubt that reducing Yugoslavia to ashes is going to "solve anything" in

the long run. They may not have anything to do with it, but they certainly

aren't helping... and helping is "supposed to be" their function.

>>These egos are

>>killing thousands.

>

>Yes, and it is yet another iteration of the identity-based

>conflict that has persisted throughout human history --

>there is really nothing new or even extraordinary about it, and

>*that* is the underlying tragedy of which the Kosovo

>crisis is only the current expression. Without a radical

>and widespread shift in human consciousness, it cannot and will

>not end.

 

Agreed. However, no matter how many times it happens, it's still painful

to watch. It's even more "painful" to realize that such a radical shift in

human consciousness is unlikely to ever take place. The "human animal" is

usually more "animal" than "human," and although great weight is put on

"the human potential" these days, I have to wonder... and watch as history

is repeated again and again and again, with no learning taking place... not

even on the level of shallow thought!

 

Tim

 

 

-----

Visit The Core of the WWW at:

http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html

Poetry, Writings, Live Chat on Spiritual Topics.

 

Tim's Windows and DOS Shareware/Freeware is at:

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On Fri, 02 Apr 1999 23:44:49 -0800 Tim Gerchmez <fewtch

writes:

>Tim Gerchmez <fewtch

>

>At 12:45 AM 4/3/99 -0500, you wrote:

>>Bruce Morgen <editor

>

>>This last is the real tragedy

>>-- the *hundreds of thousands*

>>of refugees pouring into Albania

>>and Macedonia, countries so

>>poor that their own citizens

>>are among the most destitute in

>>Europe.

>

>I agree... this is the most tragic part of the whole scenario. Also,

>men

>are supposedly being separated from their families and carried away

>in

>trucks (presumably to be killed), while women and children are being

>forced

>over the border. This, also, is tragic in the extreme. The forced

>breakup

>of family structure is one of the most destructive acts that can be

>perpetrated on the human psyche.

>

>>Tim rightly points to the whole morass as a case of ego gone

>>amok, but it's a complex, multi-level phenomenon. Milosevich is

>>using the ethnic/religious identity of his constituents

>(make no mistake about it, the man has substantial support and

>>the skills to cultivate it) to manipulate them into atrocity.

>

>Echoes of the "Third Reich?" The situation has been compared to Pol

>Pot

>and the past situation in Cambodia, but it appears to me to more

>concretely

>reflect Hitler's Germany of the 1940's.

 

More like the mid-'30s

Third Reich, but I

agree that the Pol Pot

comparison doesn't stand

up at all/

>Perhaps people are simply

>reluctant even to mention Hitler's name, a form of avoidance or

>"political correctness."

>

It'd sure be ironic, since

the Serbs were major victims

of the Nazis and one of the

reasons for Serbian antipathy

for Croats is Croat-German

collaboration during WWII.

It seems what we learn best

from persecution is how to

become effective persecutors.

>>The question is, can there be any positive outcome without a

>>radical change in consciousness of both leaders and those who are

>>lead?

>

>The question is essentially moot, as the chances of a "radical change

>in consciousness" of the leaders and those who are lead (in this case)

>is virtually nil.

>

You are certainly correct

in a short-term context.

>>The U.N. has nothing to with it -- *this* time.

>

>I doubt that reducing Yugoslavia to ashes is going to "solve anything"

>in the long run. They may not have anything to do with it, but they

>certainly

>aren't helping... and helping is "supposed to be" their function.

>

The U.N. Security Council

is powerless when the

interests of veto-wielding

members are involved. In

this case, several of

those members are the

pillars of NATO, so U.N.

involvement would amount

to pointless posturing.

>>>These egos are

>>>killing thousands.

>>

>>Yes, and it is yet another iteration of the identity-based

>>conflict that has persisted throughout human history --

>>there is really nothing new or even extraordinary about it, and

>>*that* is the underlying tragedy of which the Kosovo

>>crisis is only the current expression. Without a radical

>>and widespread shift in human consciousness, it cannot and will

>>not end.

>

>Agreed. However, no matter how many times it happens, it's still

>painful

>to watch. It's even more "painful" to realize that such a radical

>shift in human consciousness is unlikely to ever take place.

 

In that case you'd better

hope those "Maitreya"

folks in London aren't

the wishful thinkers I've

seen them to be and that

some spectacular event on

a planetary scale is

going to happen "real

soon now."

>The "human animal" is

>usually more "animal" than "human,"

 

There has never been a

non-human species that

engages in deliberate,

systematic cruelty on

anything near the human

scale. Imho your

statement slanders

animals, who have no

choice about conforming

to their genetically

conferred natures.

>and although great weight is put on

>"the human potential" these days, I have to wonder... and watch as

>history

>is repeated again and again and again, with no learning taking

>place... not even on the level of shallow thought!

>

Actually, only the

shallow lessons are

learned -- and perhaps

there have been some

minor improvements in

this century. We have

learned to "contain"

tyrants when force

suffices to do so --

confining Saddam Hussein

to Iraq is better than

appeasing Hitler was a

half-century earlier,

but again this is just

dressing the wound

without treating the

underlying infection,

and the most vulnerable

continue to bear the

brunt of the suffering.

 

 

 

http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm

http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm

m(_ _)m

_

 

_________________

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At 04:16 AM 4/3/99 -0500, you wrote:

>>The "human animal" is

>>usually more "animal" than "human,"

>

>There has never been a non-human species that

>engages in deliberate, systematic cruelty on

>anything near the human scale. Imho your

>statement slanders animals, who have no

>choice about conforming to their genetically

>conferred natures.

 

In this case, I was using the third definition of "animal" that my

dictionary specifies:

 

an•i•mal (an‚ƒ mƒl) n.

3. a brutish or beastlike person.

 

No insult intended to the rest of the animal kingdom, as I agree with you

100% that the species Homo Sapiens in general demonstrates far less

dignity, harmony with nature and even sanity than any other species.

 

Tim

 

 

-----

Visit The Core of the WWW at:

http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html

Poetry, Writings, Live Chat on Spiritual Topics.

 

Tim's Windows and DOS Shareware/Freeware is at:

http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/shareware.html

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