Guest guest Posted April 5, 1999 Report Share Posted April 5, 1999 I don't follow the belief that science is a cult that perpetuates societies ills, it's a way of quantifing what society deems is reality. For some this reality is all there is, which is good for them. For others religion may be the path but it cannot be considered any better than any other system. The goal, as far as I can tell, is the ellimination of any belief or way of quantifing that which cannot be quantified. Realization that there is a difference between our perception of reality and actual reality is my goal. I hope to make the most of this reality, not to deny it but embrace it and realize it's impermenance. Life is best lived as an indifferent observer. -mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 1999 Report Share Posted April 5, 1999 At 07:05 PM 4/5/99 -0500, you wrote: >Mike D <mikdavis > > I don't follow the belief that science is a cult that perpetuates >societies ills, it's a way of quantifing what society deems is reality. Agreed. Science has not solved any of mankind's basic problems (in fact, it has probably created more problems than it has solved) but it's the best the dualistic mind can do. And it has done some "good" in terms of increasing human lifespan, curing diseases, and in several other areas. Although it has also done much damage. >For some this reality is all there is, which is good for them. For others >religion may be the path but it cannot be considered any better than any >other system. The goal, as far as I can tell, is the ellimination of any >belief or way of quantifing that which cannot be quantified. Realization >that there is a difference between our perception of reality and actual >reality is my goal. I hope to make the most of this reality, not to deny >it but embrace it and realize it's impermenance. Life is best lived as an >indifferent observer. It's interesting to note that "indifferent observation" is the very core of the "scientific method." I agree that life is best lived this way. But without the qualities of love and humility, indifferent observation can become arrogance and egotism. Not to suggest you (or anyone else here) possesses these qualities, but there should be an awareness that appreciation of beauty and love of fellow man should also be aspects of a "well-lived life." Just for the fun of it, a quote from Swami Vivekananda, Sri Ramakrishna's primary disciple: "What we really want is head and heart combined. The heart is great indeed; it is through the heart that come the great inspirations of life. I would a hundred times rather have a little heart and no brain, than be all brains and no heart. Life is possible, progress is possible for him who has heart, but he who has no heart and only brains dies of dryness." With Love, Tim ----- Visit The Core of the WWW at: http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html Poetry, Writings, Live Chat on Spiritual Topics. Tim's Windows and DOS Shareware/Freeware is at: http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/shareware.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 1999 Report Share Posted April 6, 1999 >>Mike D: >> I don't follow the belief that science is a cult that perpetuates >>societies ills, BTW, Gene did not say that, and I can't see that he implied it. >it's a way of quantifing what society deems is reality. > >Tim G: >Agreed. Science has not solved any of mankind's basic problems (in fact, >it has probably created more problems than it has solved) but it's the best >the dualistic mind can do. And it has done some "good" in terms of >increasing human lifespan, curing diseases, and in several other areas. >Although it has also done much damage. Science is a method... the good or ill done through it is done by people. The method isn't going to disappear... it's the best method for certain purposes... it's been around for thousands of years... and it's flexible enough to be used in many fields, not just the hard sciences... and of course the best scientists use intuition, dreams, whatever works... no conflict there... The mystics/occultists are the scientists of religion... or I should say, of the spiritual life. They're the ones who don't just accept what somebody says is right or ought to work... they want to see for themselves. They want to test things out... find out what works... find out what's true and not true... know for themselves... know, not believe. Like the disciple Thomas, who said he couldn't believe that Jesus was alive again without seeing him and touching the wounds himself. Jesus didn't tell him, "That's the wrong approach, Thomas." He appeared and said, "Here I am, touch me." Knock on the door hard enough, and it opens... It is true that the Western world went pretty far in a materialistic direction before swinging back... toward the meeting and joining of East and West that we're now in the middle of... >It's interesting to note that "indifferent observation" is the very core of >the "scientific method." Well, it's a goal that can never be reached, as we now understand. It's impossible to observe without affecting, without changing what you're observing. Love, Dharma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 1999 Report Share Posted April 7, 1999 I have found an intresting bond between religion and science. Suprisingly most of the principles of my faith are provable through science. The further we begin to develop our minds the line between the two will become blurred. Although there is one question which still remains in my beliefs, Does the universe have an edge? Anyone who has insight into this either scientific or religous will help. -mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 1999 Report Share Posted April 7, 1999 Mike D wrote: > Does the universe have an edge? Imagine a Set of Infinity. As one splits this Set into subsets of Infinity (children of Infinity if you will) the subsets inherit the attribute of infinity. They are infinite. But to experience these infinite subsets is not quite the same as to experience Pure Infinity wouldn't you agree? Holographic model enthusiasts could expand on this... David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 1999 Report Share Posted April 7, 1999 If the universe is an infinate series of infinate subsets, how is it that anything would ever repeat? By this I mean that the universe is operating via sets of black and white holes, causing creation and collapse of these galaxies how is it that an individuals soul is ever carried beyond this reality? As far as I understand, we're merely a code (genetic) which encompasses everything from personality to thoughts. What we interpet as reality has allready been pre-established by these guidelines. The code, if given eternity would eventually repeat and this is what I consider to be reincarnation. We feel drawn towards certain people and beliefs because that is what we are hardwired for. The universe naturally segregrates itself according to densities, so no matter what when our universe eventually collapses and is drawn either back inward or towards the nearest black hole it will eventually reach critical mass and cause another mini-big bang. It would then proceed to once again create another universe not unlike our own with all possibilities once again open.... I realize this is sketchy and incomplete. Has anyone read anything along these lines? mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 1999 Report Share Posted April 7, 1999 Also, could you elaborate on the Holographic models? mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 1999 Report Share Posted April 7, 1999 Mike D wrote: > If the universe is an infinate series of infinate subsets, how is > it that anything would ever repeat? This notion of 'repeating' is quite dualistic. Also, I wouldn't say that all this was 'an infinite series of infinite subsets'. I'd say the splits and lines that appear to cut up all this are imaginary. Suppose you're dreaming and someone says to you, "you're dreaming" you don't necessarily wake-up right away. : ) > By this I mean that the universe is > operating via sets of black and white holes, causing creation and collapse > of these galaxies how is it that an individuals soul is ever carried > beyond this reality? Individuality isn't real. > As far as I understand, we're merely a code (genetic) > which encompasses everything from personality to thoughts. Does this understanding bring you peace? > What we interpet as reality has allready been pre-established by these guidelines. What about no 'guidelines' where are all possibilities are at once? > The code, if given eternity would eventually repeat and this is what I > consider to be reincarnation. This 'eternity' you describe is quite time-bound. > We feel drawn towards certain people and > beliefs because that is what we are hardwired for. We're soft-wired too. : ) > The universe naturally segregrates itself according to densities, Perhaps this segregation is actually most 'unnatural'? > so no matter what when our > universe eventually collapses and is drawn either back inward or towards > the nearest black hole it will eventually reach critical mass and cause > another mini-big bang. It would then proceed to once again create another > universe not unlike our own with all possibilities once again open.... Who knows? But you know what will most likely affect us is our death. ========================================================== Worlds birthed from a prism. Prison. Imaginary light split. I journey her spiral staircase of dimensions endlessly. A goldfish frowns from a glassy aquarium with disgust for being sectioned off from the lake. And light seeps through cracks in orbed walls as I hammer and chisel with a virtual hammer, unfathomable, it bears no weight this instrument of mind, all momentum originates souly from intent. and underneath a clearing sillouette of darkness a strange orb in a celestial sky encompasses every organism with life as awareness testifies to eternity for forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 1999 Report Share Posted April 7, 1999 Mike D wrote: > Also, could you elaborate on the Holographic models? One neat thing is when you take a hologram film and split it up each piece contains a perspective of the entire image. The piece, being a whole representation is infinite. But it's only a subset. It's still not the Whole. The quality of the individual pieces is not the high quality of the single undivided film. Also interesting holograms are based on (en)coding that represents nothing. To Make A Holograph- Step One: Take a laser that contains the entire spectrum of light that is visible to the human species. Step Two: Split the beam. Step Three: Bounce one of the beam subsets off of some image you'd like to record three dimensionally. Before going to Step 4 I'll raise an interesting phenomena that occurs with wave frequency vibrations. When two waves are identical regarding frequency pulse parameters etc. as measured by science, that when these two waves are brought together they cancel each other out. Doesn't matter what kind of waves they are, i.e. if they are sound waves, sub-atomic vibrations, light or whatever. Step Four: Combine the reflected laser light from the image you're recording with the other 'pure' beam. You've just effectively created every light wave impression that *is not* the image you are recording. The frequencies that represent the image get canceled out by the pure beam effectively leaving only those frequencies of the visible human spectrum that do not represent the image. A negative. Step Five: Project a pure laser beam through the negative film to cancel out the waves that do not represent the image leaving only the ones that do. Pretty neat trick. This is the nature of perceptual experience. So the holographic model seems to be a pretty good metaphor in that the Pure Beam (all frequencies) represents Self/god. The splitting and fusing process is the work of our imagination, that is the exploration into the infinite possibilities one by one in a linear sense. So it comes back to what would I choose to experience? Pure Beam or shadow interference patterns that are inherently nothing? Quantumly, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 1999 Report Share Posted April 8, 1999 The poetry takes my breathe away and echo's in sounds of the soul David Bozzi wrote: > > David Bozzi <david.bozzi > > Mike D wrote: > > > If the universe is an infinate series of infinate subsets, how is > > it that anything would ever repeat? > > This notion of 'repeating' is quite dualistic. Also, I wouldn't say that all this was > 'an infinite series of infinite subsets'. I'd say the splits and lines that appear > to cut up all this are imaginary. Suppose you're dreaming and someone says to > you, "you're dreaming" you don't necessarily wake-up right away. : ) > > > By this I mean that the universe is > > operating via sets of black and white holes, causing creation and collapse > > of these galaxies how is it that an individuals soul is ever carried > > beyond this reality? > > Individuality isn't real. > > > As far as I understand, we're merely a code (genetic) > > which encompasses everything from personality to thoughts. > > Does this understanding bring you peace? > > > What we interpet as reality has allready been pre-established by these guidelines. > > What about no 'guidelines' where are all possibilities are at once? > > > The code, if given eternity would eventually repeat and this is what I > > consider to be reincarnation. > > This 'eternity' you describe is quite time-bound. > > > We feel drawn towards certain people and > > beliefs because that is what we are hardwired for. > > We're soft-wired too. : ) > > > The universe naturally segregrates itself according to densities, > > Perhaps this segregation is actually most 'unnatural'? > > > so no matter what when our > > universe eventually collapses and is drawn either back inward or towards > > the nearest black hole it will eventually reach critical mass and cause > > another mini-big bang. It would then proceed to once again create another > > universe not unlike our own with all possibilities once again open.... > > Who knows? > But you know what will most likely affect us is our death. > ========================================================== > Worlds birthed from a prism. > Prison. > Imaginary light split. > I journey her spiral staircase > of dimensions endlessly. > > A goldfish frowns > from a glassy aquarium with disgust > for being sectioned off > from the lake. > > And light seeps through cracks in > orbed walls as I hammer and chisel > with a virtual hammer, > unfathomable, it bears no weight > this instrument of mind, > all momentum originates souly > from intent. > > and underneath a clearing sillouette > of darkness > a strange orb in a celestial sky > encompasses every organism with life > as awareness testifies to eternity > for forever. > > ------ > Have you visited the new ONElist home page lately? > http://www.ONElist.com > ONElist: The Leading e-mail list and community service on the Internet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 1999 Report Share Posted April 8, 1999 Message: 19 Wed, 7 Apr 1999 16:49:47 -0500 (CDT) Mike D <mikdavis Hello Mike, << We feel drawn towards certain people and beliefs because that is what we are hardwired for. The universe naturally segregrates itself according to densities, so no matter what when our universe eventually collapses and is drawn either back inward or towards the nearest black hole it will eventually reach critical mass and cause another mini-big bang. >> I remember when Tiamat, a big black dragon, came to me in vision. Did not know a thing about that Goddess of primal Chaos in the Babylonian mythology. Finding out how the Gods, her childs, came to revolt against Her and kill Her, to make from one of her eyes the moon, the other the sun, water with her blood, the sky and earth with hear skin. Reading, briefly after, about that just fascinated me. Going outside looking at the world, sometimes, i feel i am a Babylonian looking at the world, i simply feel inside a huge dragon with her two eyes (the sun and the moon) looking at me. I wonder then why we forgot to look at the world this way... Then i forget the question and look at it in another way, as it goes, as it flows, i enjoy it as it comes to my 'holographic eye'. Newton looked at the world with an apple falling in it, in a very different way. And with time we came to adopt the most simple expression of his 'eye' that can be expressed in formulas. Time and space came to affect me differently starting to go to school and with the clocks and the way we came to mesure everything around. It's a beautiful way, among many to look at the world. It's one today we are most used to. We often forget from where it comes from, we are hardwired to it, then, in some way ... Einstein, affected me also deeply in my way to look "outside" of who i think i am. The strange curves, and the ways time and space dance together linked with gravity in is mind, blasted my neurons more than once, to try to understand him. Einstein believed there was a reality outside of perception, and had a very strong problem with quantum physics for that, it was his 'edge of the universe'. According to his late writings he died polarized, still, between what he could not prove to 'others' that he believed to exist as outside of is theory and perception. My opinion here, - as any of the words i ever type btw, - part of the quantum scientifics, saying that all is inside what they define as 'perception', are also falling in the illusion of taking what they can perceive for the Totality. In this way, they will always find an edge to the universe: what they believe it is. Or if they believe to hard they know the totality, their universe will collapse on itself. I.e The universe of Newton becoming a pure mechanical universe, where all can be predicted in a linear way from the beginning of time. Beginning of time and end of time being the edge of that universe, as well as no more concept of free will. Or the big bang theory coming to the universe self collapsing on itself to the initial singularity, according to Einstein theory and others, and the dark matter we don't stop from finding in the universe, making it's initial mass always bigger. Today, findings seem to point that the Universe still creates mass from the center of it's galaxies. Something is poring in from what we call 'nowhere', according to all initial theory. The Quantum theory comes in handy here to try to look at that 'nowhere', this new edge, and give it a name. Also time is starting to be consider as an accelerating entity, in this new model. But still i see the same game as in the other theories and other worlds. A new edge, a new nowhere will come after we find a name for that 'nowhere' behind the process of matter collapsing, vanishing back in 'quantum leap' conditions, and time accelerating or the universe expanding faster and faster. To me it's a game i enjoy, to look at the world behind all the minds i can find. Running after the edge to find myself as the edge. To laugth at myself like a baby dog finding out he is running after his tail. To look at myself as the edge, the changing edge, flowing with life. Until i jump on the other side where there is no edge. It's one of my way to 'listen' to 'music', one of my 'ears' to this world. Enjoy, Antoine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 1999 Report Share Posted April 9, 1999 Carolyn Maloney wrote: > Carolyn Maloney <reiki > > The poetry takes my breathe away and echo's in sounds of the > soul Hi there flute. : ) much appreciated coming from a fellow poet who writes with the same effect blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 1999 Report Share Posted April 9, 1999 Antoine wrote: > Einstein, affected me also deeply in my way to look "outside" of who i > think i am. The strange curves, and the ways time and space dance > together linked with gravity in is mind, blasted my neurons more than > once, to try to understand him. (-snip-) > Something is poring in from what we call 'nowhere', according > to all initial theory. The Quantum theory comes in handy here to try to > look at that 'nowhere', this new edge, (-snip-) > To me it's a game i enjoy, to look at the world behind all the minds i > can find. Running after the edge to find myself as the edge. (-snip-) > It's one of my way to 'listen' to 'music', one of my 'ears' to this world. I grasp the holographic model with her quantum physique left with handfuls of sky teases my probing yang. Her seductive implications flirt with my analytical mind she plays hard to get like ether mist... frequently vibrating no place and everywhere. Can't put a finger on her or contain her into formulas and charts... I gaze into the depth of sky and scratch my head where I've scratched it a thousand times before... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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