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Ramana Maharshi/Shiva Sutras

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David Hodges wrote:

> David Hodges <dhodges

>

> Hi Harsha,

> I have a very specific question about the quote from Ramana Maharshi's talks

> with Paul Brunton. He says "By repeated practice one can become accustomed to

> turning inwards and finding the Self. One must always and constantly make an

> effort, until one has permanently realized. Once the effort ceases, the state

> becomes natural and the Supreme takes possession of the person with an

unbroken

> current. Until it has become permanently natural and your habitual state, know

> that you have not realized the Self, only glimpsed it. "

>

> My question is about this word "Supreme." I find this word also in

Nisargadatta

> and I am wondering if it is an unsatisfactory attempt by the translator to

> translate some term, or if it is accurate. I mean, why not translate it as

"the

> Self" or "I Am" or "God" ? My best guess is that it is a placeholder

word for

> what is ineffable and inexpressible but within the possibilities of

experience.

>

> Curious to hear yours or anyone's thoughts on this.

>

> David

>

 

Harsha: What you say makes sense David. Although I do not attach particular

importance to the the use of the word Supreme. Some word has to be used to

indicate

the Reality which makes everything appear real. Do not think it is something far

away or mysterious. Ramana Maharshi clearly and joyfully indicated to Paul

Brunton

that what is Sahaj for the Siddha is Sadhana for the Aspirant. Therefore, not

only

is it within the realm of experience, there is never a time it is not being

experienced even through the thickest veils of the mind. That which is

perpetual,

continuous, easy and natural is the Supreme state Like Jnaneshwar has said,

when

the tank is full of water which is clear and still, it appears to be empty. That

is

a beautiful metaphor. The Self is Fullness It Self, yet It is Complete

Emptiness.

It is Sat-Chit-Ananda. Inwardly, It is the unbroken current of awareness

permeating

every state of consciousness and yet retaining complete and absolute

independence,

that independence being its very nature in totality. It is the natural sprouting

of

bliss. Outwardly, it is not in conflict with anything, as there is truly nothing

outside it.. It is the simplest and the most basic element. Yet volumes of

scriptures and commentaries can be found everywhere. Marcus has been giving us

great gifts. Let me take the liberty to quote:

 

sutra 8:

"the inward cessation of all darshanas i.e. all empirical knowledge, e.g.,

the

experience of (an external thing as) colour,

a means of manifestation of the essential nature of tat i,e., Shiva who is of

the

nature of consciousness and a mass of

bliss.''

 

The beginning of true understanding begins when we still our mind of all

vikalpas. The subtle discrimination of the

higher mind cannot be heard above the roar of the vikalpas of the monkey mind.

 

In doing this, we are expanded to the state of Turiya, the fourth state, as

is

said in sutra 8:

''Thus this venerable turiya consciousness whose nature it is to hold

together

emanation, maintenance, and

re-absorption flashes forth ceaselessly."

 

Step by step we expand our understanding, as is said:

"This venerable (power) being resorted to more and more makes her devotee her

own

step by step."

 

Ultimately, philosophical dogma becomes a moot point.

 

Shedding all vikalpas, including the vikalpas of the various philosophies, we

begin

the true journey towards the essence of

all philosophies. This is highly individual.

 

This is the beginning of the true journey.

 

Mahabhakti

M

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>Harsha: What you say makes sense David. Although I do not attach particular

>importance to the the use of the word Supreme. Some word has to be used to

indicate

>the Reality which makes everything appear real. Do not think it is

something far

>away or mysterious. Ramana Maharshi clearly and joyfully indicated to Paul

Brunton

>that what is Sahaj for the Siddha is Sadhana for the Aspirant. Therefore,

not only

>is it within the realm of experience, there is never a time it is not being

>experienced even through the thickest veils of the mind. That which is

perpetual,

>continuous, easy and natural is the Supreme state Like Jnaneshwar has

said, when

>the tank is full of water which is clear and still, it appears to be empty.

That is

>a beautiful metaphor. The Self is Fullness It Self, yet It is Complete

Emptiness.

>It is Sat-Chit-Ananda. Inwardly, It is the unbroken current of awareness

permeating

>every state of consciousness and yet retaining complete and absolute

independence,

>that independence being its very nature in totality. It is the natural

sprouting of

>bliss. Outwardly, it is not in conflict with anything, as there is truly

nothing

>outside it.. It is the simplest and the most basic element. Yet volumes of

>scriptures and commentaries can be found everywhere. Marcus has been giving

us

>great gifts. Let me take the liberty to quote:

>sutra 8:

"the inward cessation of all darshanas i.e. all empirical knowledge,

e.g., the

experience of (an external thing as) colour,

a means of manifestation of the essential nature of tat i,e., Shiva who is

of the

nature of consciousness and a mass of

bliss.''

 

The beginning of true understanding begins when we still our mind of

all

vikalpas. The subtle discrimination of the

higher mind cannot be heard above the roar of the vikalpas of the monkey

mind.

 

In doing this, we are expanded to the state of Turiya, the fourth

state, as is

said in sutra 8:

''Thus this venerable turiya consciousness whose nature it is to hold

together

emanation, maintenance, and

re-absorption flashes forth ceaselessly."

 

Step by step we expand our understanding, as is said:

"This venerable (power) being resorted to more and more makes her devotee

her own

step by step."

 

Ultimately, philosophical dogma becomes a moot point.

 

Shedding all vikalpas, including the vikalpas of the various philosophies,

we begin

the true journey towards the essence of

all philosophies. This is highly individual.

 

This is the beginning of the true journey.

 

Mahabhakti

M

 

Linda: Very well stated. There simply comes a time when no matter what

philosophy or words we ascribe to we need to move beyond the intellectual

understanding, I remember being told that no words can adequately describe

"God" in it's entirety. Therefore the intellect can not get us 'there'.

The fact that the journey can get highly individualistic forces one to move

inward as it appears that there are no adequate answers coming from outside.

Challenge is that it can be a frightening process because it becomes one's

own process. So the wonderful teachings left for us are a guide but

eventually only surrendering to the flow will work.

 

Thanks for your clarity

Linda

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