Guest guest Posted April 13, 1999 Report Share Posted April 13, 1999 On Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:37:33 -0700 Tim Gerchmez <fewtch writes: >Tim Gerchmez <fewtch > >At 03:31 PM 4/13/99 -0400, you wrote: >>Judy Walden <judyw > >>I am in agreement with you that exercise and diet can play a >>significant role in alleviating mood disorders. > >Only a few mood disorders. > Clinical depression is a mood disorder for which exercise and diet are generally ineffective therapy for all but very mild cases. I'm sure they're much more useful as preventative measures, but as curative treatment they're unreliable and very slow to show even modest results. Anyone who's had to deal with clinical depression on a day-to-day basis knows this is generally not a practical option for an adult with real world responsibilities. Patient: "Most mornings it's all I can do to get out of bed. I've lost my ability to concentrate on my work and could very well lose my livelihood. I can't even look at my children without crying and I think about death constantly." "Doctor": "Chant this mantra, go to this yoga teacher, follow this diet, and if you're not better in a year or two call me back and we'll talk about it some more." "Patient": "Do you have Dr. Kevorkian's beeper number?" >>I may have >>all the terms wrong, biology was never my strong suit, but I >>believe exercise causes the release of norepernephrin (I >>know I have misspelled this) which helps with depressed >>mood. > >It can also generate panic attacks in those with panic disorder, due >to the >release of lactic acid into the bloodstream (the "waste product" of >muscular exertion). Lactic acid often produces panic attacks in >those susceptible to them. > Ah, so exercise and diet are not quite the panacea originally depicted. Interesting. >>I have seen people depressed who exercised and were >>nutrition conscious. I would bet though that there is less >>depression among this group. > >Do you have any direct experience to back up this "bet?" > Judy handled patient intake, that would seem to give her access to some anectdotal information in this regard. Her "bet" rings a lot truer than David Bozzi's blanket assertion that lifestyle changes comprise some kind of Swiss Army Knife[tm] for mood disorders. >>What I wonder about is what causes the kind of thinking that >>is associated with psychiatric disorders. You mentioned >>panic disorders and I think even here a genetic >>predisposition may need to be considered. But even without >>this consideration, what causes the kind of thinking which >>leads to a panic attack? > >I'll tell you. Listen carefully, because the person who is typing >here has >had panic disorder since 1988 (and long before that, undiagnosed). >The >kind of thinking that causes panic disorder is runaway, circular >thinking that feeds upon itself. This describes the subjective experience, but thought is an electrochemical process that can be easily skewed by even minor alterations in brain chemistry. Could this have a role either as "chicken" or "egg" in panic disorder? How do typical medications for the disorder work, are they specific to it or general purpose mood changers? >For example, one may notice the heart beating too >fast, which causes fear, and the fear causes the heart to beat even >faster, >which generates even more fear. Thinking becomes circular, and feeds >upon >itself, becoming obsessive. The world shrinks, time slows to a crawl. > All >sense of perspective is lost. A "panicky mood" is established (a >truly >hellish state, take it from me), which also feeds upon itself, and >all >manner of negative emotions may arise, they themselves contributing to >the >growing state of anxiety. When the whole process increases to a >point >where the "feedback" is too "loud" for the brain to cope with, a >panic >attack results, which temporarily "breaks the cycle" of circular, >obsessive >thought. The cycle, however, generally resumes again soon afterward. > You've described the feedback loop very evocatively -- but you haven't even touched upon what might be the underlying condition that allows the downward spiral to continue. After all, lots of people notice their heartbeats from time to time, but only a tiny minority experience the out- of-control circularity you describe. So, is unusual brain chemistry involved and, if so, it that chemistry the underlying condition or the result of the abnormal psychology you describe? I write here as someone with zero experience of clinical panic disorder, even as an observer. http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm m(_ _)m _ _________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 1999 Report Share Posted April 14, 1999 Hi Bruce, I wanted to respond to your question: "How do typical medications for the disorder work, are they specific to it or general purpose mood changers?" I can not explain the chemistry of it all but there are specific medications for specific mood problems. I haven't worked in the past year and have not kept up with the literature so I am less familiar with the new SSRI, but I know a little about the tricyclics. For example depressed mood with some generalized anxiety would probably respond better to Elavil which is considered an antidepressant, but interestingly enough has been known to alleviate physical pain and is also used for that purpose. In depression with more specific anxiety such as phobias for example, Impramine would be the drug of choice. However Impramine would not be used if the problem being treated was specifically phobias. With panic disorder, Xanex has been considered the treatment of choice, but the risk of abuse has led to this not being prescribed as often. I am certain there are some new drugs on the scene now. SSRI are considered to have fewer side effects and to be faster acting which make them more desirable than the tricyclics. However this class of drugs do not have the sedative effect of many of the tricyclics which can be a disadvantage for those with sleep problems and this is usually a common symptom of depression. When it comes to bipolar disorders, another category of drugs comes into play. Sorry to go on and on, I can get really wound up sometimes when something interest me. I guess, too, I so seldom get to speak here since I know so little about spirituality that my old 'ego' is kicking in here. Love, Judy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 1999 Report Share Posted April 14, 1999 > Tim Gerchmez <fewtch > > At 03:31 PM 4/13/99 -0400, you wrote: > >Judy Walden <judyw > [...] > >I may have > >all the terms wrong, biology was never my strong suit, but I > >believe exercise causes the release of norepernephrin (I > >know I have misspelled this) which helps with depressed > >mood. > > It can also generate panic attacks in those with panic disorder, > due to the > release of lactic acid into the bloodstream (the "waste product" of > muscular exertion). Lactic acid often produces panic attacks in those > susceptible to them. [...] The ability of the body to (quickly) metabolize lactic acid can be influenced by diet. After digestion, food should result in alkalinity but the food that is consumed predominantly results in acidity, which is difficult if not impossible to handle for the body. A simple test is to measure the pH of one's urine; it has to be >7. Acid urine means the body is under an unhealthy strain. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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