Gemini/Nityananda/Bubba/Jerry/TimG

[Guest guest]

 

Tim Gerchmez [fewtch]

Thursday, April 22, 1999 2:09 AM

Re: Gemini/Kundalini

 

 

Why? Who is "we?" Nityananda is nobody to me. Who do you speak for?

 

Tim

 

Harsha: Hello TimG. Here we are again. Tim, while your knowledge of many

aspects of Hinduism and Vedanta is admirable, you are not familiar with many

of the great Saints. Swami Nityananda is one of the truly great Sages in the

Shakti tradition. Nityananda means Eternal Bliss. Many of the people that

you greatly respect like Jerry Katz hold Nityananda in high esteem. Swami

Nityananda inspired a host of aspirants who were well known teachers

including Swami Muktananda. By the way Bubba Free John was a student of Rudi

who was a student of Swami Muktananda. Jerry was influenced by Bubba Free

John and Bubba also visited Nityananda's Samadhi. You greatly respect Jerry

and Jerry has influenced you. In a way, when you speak badly of Nityananda,

you are insulting your great great great great grand pa Guru. I am not

trying to be funny here Tim. You are extremely bright and intelligent but

highly opinionated. Some of your opinions are based on a lack of knowledge.

You sometimes express those opinions in a way which hurts and puts others

down. It is a tendency which we all have to watch. I have a great deal of

respect for Marcus. He is one of the people I am inviting to be a moderator

of this list because of everything he is offering purely out of love and

compassion. If someone adores their Guru as Marcus does, that should be an

inspiration for the rest of us and not seen as an opportunity to denigrate.

Given the way you have acted towards Marcus, we could lose him. That would

not just be your loss but the loss for the list. This list is all about

respecting each other and tolerance of different spiritual perspectives in

the context of Nonviolence. Tim, you really need to reflect on why you are

on this list. What is it that you are getting out of this list, if the posts

here frustrate you? I don't want you to be unhappy or frustrated. Perhaps

another list would have more to offer you in terms of intellectual

nourishment and deep insights. I have always thought that the Nonduality

Salon was perfect for you. Honestly. While you would certainly be missed

here by many if you were to leave, we would also understand, and wish you

well.

[Guest guest]

At 04:35 PM 4/22/99 -0400, you wrote:

>Harsha: Hello TimG. Here we are again. Tim, while your knowledge of many

>aspects of Hinduism and Vedanta is admirable, you are not familiar with many

>of the great Saints. Swami Nityananda is one of the truly great Sages in the

>Shakti tradition.

 

I don't follow the Shakti tradition, therefore I don't recognize Nityananda

as anyone special to me. Nor will I be forced to recognize Nityananda as

such, merely because others do, nor will I PRETEND to recognize Nityananda

as anybody special, because others do.

>Nityananda means Eternal Bliss.

 

And so a word indicates something? Maybe if I say "Nityananda" aloud I

will then experience eternal bliss?

>Many of the people that

>you greatly respect like Jerry Katz hold Nityananda in high esteem.

 

To be honest, I respect nobody greatly. No human being on this planet,

either alive now, nor having lived in the past, do I hold great respect

for. Any particular manifestation of Spirit as a human being is temporary

and will be gone in less than a hundred years, and only dead memories will

be left. The only thing worthy of respecting greatly is this current

moment, this timeless NOW. To that alone I bow. That alone is real.

>Swami Nityananda inspired a host of aspirants who were well known teachers

>including Swami Muktananda. By the way Bubba Free John was a student of Rudi

>who was a student of Swami Muktananda. Jerry was influenced by Bubba Free

>John and Bubba also visited Nityananda's Samadhi. You greatly respect Jerry

>and Jerry has influenced you. In a way, when you speak badly of Nityananda,

>you are insulting your great great great great grand pa Guru.

 

Names, names, all meaningless. All foolishness.

>I am not trying to be funny here Tim. You are extremely bright and

intelligent >but highly opinionated.

 

Live with it, or kick me off the list.

>You sometimes express those opinions in a way which hurts and puts others

>down.

 

Do these nonspecified others not hold enough esteem within themselves to be

unharmed? Or are they so weak in mind and spirit that an insult of another

can devastate their world?

>It is a tendency which we all have to watch. I have a great deal of

>respect for Marcus. He is one of the people I am inviting to be a moderator

>of this list because of everything he is offering purely out of love and

>compassion. If someone adores their Guru as Marcus does, that should be an

>inspiration for the rest of us and not seen as an opportunity to denigrate.

>Given the way you have acted towards Marcus, we could lose him.

 

If it happens, if the opinions of one person can drive Marcus off the list,

then he is weak of mind and spirit, and dependent on the good opinion of

others for his own self esteem. If this is true, it is no great loss to

have him gone.

>While you would certainly be missed

>here by many if you were to leave, we would also understand, and wish you

>well.

 

That's quite a cheesy way of asking me to leave. Why not be a man, and say

"I would prefer it if you leave?" Say what you mean, and mean what you

say, or keep your mouth shut. At the same time acknowledge yourself a

mouse, that you cannot stand it even for a minute when my mood changes, and

one negative comment colors your world, that you have no life of your own,

but depend entirely on the mood of others to keep your own mood remaining

in good spirits. Pretend that others do not occasionally have bad moments

or unpleasant feelings, and recommend everyone who has such go to another

list. Go ahead, Harsha. I will be waiting for your judgment.

 

 

Tim

 

-----

Visit The Core of the WWW at:

http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html

Music, Poetry, Writings on Nondual Spiritual Topics.

 

Tim's Windows and DOS Shareware/Freeware is at:

http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/shareware.html

[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

Please excuse me for my foolishness to jump into this verbal vortex.

It seems to me that there are 2 issues:

 

1. Open mindedness and tolerance. Turn the other cheek?

 

2. Community interest.

 

Without number 1, there will be no new ideas, only conformity. Do we

want that??

 

Without number 2, the purpose of the list is defeated. . Do we want

that??

 

Harsha, would you mind if I ask Tim to stay?? Tim, would you mind if

I ask you to refrain from using strong negative words directed to

person(s).

 

Namaste,

 

Sam.

 

>Tim Gerchmez <fewtch

>

>

> Re: Gemini/Nityananda/Bubba/Jerry/TimG

>Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:12:19 -0700

>

>Tim Gerchmez <fewtch

>

>At 04:35 PM 4/22/99 -0400, you wrote:

>

>>Harsha: Hello TimG. Here we are again. Tim, while your knowledge of

many

>>aspects of Hinduism and Vedanta is admirable, you are not familiar

with many

>>of the great Saints. Swami Nityananda is one of the truly great

Sages in the

>>Shakti tradition.

>

>I don't follow the Shakti tradition, therefore I don't recognize

Nityananda

>as anyone special to me. Nor will I be forced to recognize

Nityananda as

>such, merely because others do, nor will I PRETEND to recognize

Nityananda

>as anybody special, because others do.

>

>>Nityananda means Eternal Bliss.

>

>And so a word indicates something? Maybe if I say "Nityananda" aloud

I

>will then experience eternal bliss?

>

>>Many of the people that

>>you greatly respect like Jerry Katz hold Nityananda in high esteem.

>

>To be honest, I respect nobody greatly. No human being on this

planet,

>either alive now, nor having lived in the past, do I hold great

respect

>for. Any particular manifestation of Spirit as a human being is

temporary

>and will be gone in less than a hundred years, and only dead memories

will

>be left. The only thing worthy of respecting greatly is this current

>moment, this timeless NOW. To that alone I bow. That alone is real.

>

>>Swami Nityananda inspired a host of aspirants who were well known

teachers

>>including Swami Muktananda. By the way Bubba Free John was a student

of Rudi

>>who was a student of Swami Muktananda. Jerry was influenced by Bubba

Free

>>John and Bubba also visited Nityananda's Samadhi. You greatly

respect Jerry

>>and Jerry has influenced you. In a way, when you speak badly of

Nityananda,

>>you are insulting your great great great great grand pa Guru.

>

>Names, names, all meaningless. All foolishness.

>

>>I am not trying to be funny here Tim. You are extremely bright and

>intelligent >but highly opinionated.

>

>Live with it, or kick me off the list.

>

>>You sometimes express those opinions in a way which hurts and puts

others

>>down.

>

>Do these nonspecified others not hold enough esteem within themselves

to be

>unharmed? Or are they so weak in mind and spirit that an insult of

another

>can devastate their world?

>

>>It is a tendency which we all have to watch. I have a great deal of

>>respect for Marcus. He is one of the people I am inviting to be a

moderator

>>of this list because of everything he is offering purely out of love

and

>>compassion. If someone adores their Guru as Marcus does, that should

be an

>>inspiration for the rest of us and not seen as an opportunity to

denigrate.

>>Given the way you have acted towards Marcus, we could lose him.

>

>If it happens, if the opinions of one person can drive Marcus off the

list,

>then he is weak of mind and spirit, and dependent on the good opinion

of

>others for his own self esteem. If this is true, it is no great loss

to

>have him gone.

>

>>While you would certainly be missed

>>here by many if you were to leave, we would also understand, and

wish you

>>well.

>

>That's quite a cheesy way of asking me to leave. Why not be a man,

and say

>"I would prefer it if you leave?" Say what you mean, and mean what

you

>say, or keep your mouth shut. At the same time acknowledge yourself

a

>mouse, that you cannot stand it even for a minute when my mood

changes, and

>one negative comment colors your world, that you have no life of your

own,

>but depend entirely on the mood of others to keep your own mood

remaining

>in good spirits. Pretend that others do not occasionally have bad

moments

>or unpleasant feelings, and recommend everyone who has such go to

another

>list. Go ahead, Harsha. I will be waiting for your judgment.

>

>

>Tim

>

>-----

>Visit The Core of the WWW at:

>http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html

>Music, Poetry, Writings on Nondual Spiritual Topics.

>

>Tim's Windows and DOS Shareware/Freeware is at:

>http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/shareware.html

>

>---

---

>Did you know that ONElist hosts some of the largest lists on the

Internet?

>http://www.ONElist.com

>Our scaleable system is the most reliable free e-mail service on the

Internet!

>

 

 

_____________

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[Guest guest]

>Why? Who is "we?" Nityananda is nobody to me. Who do you speak for?

>

>Tim

>

>Harsha:

(snip)

>I am not

>trying to be funny here Tim. You are extremely bright and intelligent but

>highly opinionated. Some of your opinions are based on a lack of knowledge.

>You sometimes express those opinions in a way which hurts and puts others

>down. It is a tendency which we all have to watch. I have a great deal of

>respect for Marcus. He is one of the people I am inviting to be a moderator

>of this list because of everything he is offering purely out of love and

>compassion. If someone adores their Guru as Marcus does, that should be an

>inspiration for the rest of us and not seen as an opportunity to denigrate.

>Given the way you have acted towards Marcus, we could lose him. That would

>not just be your loss but the loss for the list. This list is all about

>respecting each other and tolerance of different spiritual perspectives in

>the context of Nonviolence. Tim, you really need to reflect on why you are

>on this list. What is it that you are getting out of this list, if the posts

>here frustrate you? I don't want you to be unhappy or frustrated. Perhaps

>another list would have more to offer you in terms of intellectual

>nourishment and deep insights. I have always thought that the Nonduality

>Salon was perfect for you. Honestly. While you would certainly be missed

>here by many if you were to leave, we would also understand, and wish you

>well.

>

>

 

Melody:

 

Dear Harsha,

This posting pained me deeply. Not only

because you were inviting Tim to leave, but

because I realize how easily it could have

been me being shown the door...and it touched

that pain in me....of all those years of 'my'

pain being 'swept under the carpet' by both me

and my family - because it was just to ugly to

look at or hear.

 

It pained me to hear you sacrifice Tim for

Marcus. Sacrifice the bad seed for the good

one....even though the 'good' one has another

list already in which the very same writings.

get posted. (I to his ananda list,

and greatly appreciate what he lovingly offers.

I automatically delete his posts from this list,

because I already have them neatly saved in

digest version from his own list)

 

And yet that's what made your apparent sacrifice

of Tim all the more painful. If Marcus chose to leave because of Tim, we

could easily continue to recieve

all his posts!

 

Harsha, you are so easy to love. That is why

I followed you from Jerry's list here. But for

those of us like Tim and I, who often find ourselves

choking on our own spiritual dust, you are probably

right that we find another place to call home.

 

Yet may I share with you that the pain that your

post stirred up helped me see something very

clearly. It is the memory of the pain, and being

'thrown away' that keeps the ego holding on in

someone like me. The ego was my friend, when

I could find no one else. In a world quick

to exterminate and exclude the impure, it

actually propagates that which it would eliminate.

 

I love you,

Melody

[Guest guest]

I guess, Melody, I will have to speak out and join you

here. I empathized with the pain that I imagined Tim was

once more experiencing.

 

Tim, if you don't mind my talking about you, I experience so

much motherly stuff with you. Part of it is the strict

parent who wants to give you a good shake and say enough is

enough and part of me that wants to nurture you and give you

what I think you never got enough of in the first place. No

criticism of your parent implied as I never gave my son

enough of what he needed.

 

Surely all of us have had the experience at one time or

another of being on the outside looking in, the experience

of not being accepted or of measuring up and times when we

used poor judgment.

 

I feel that way many times here as I so frequently cant

relate to some of the experiences that many of you have had

and have in the way of K, having gurus and the intuitive

sense that you have about the nature of reality. It doesn't

engender anger, but it sure adds to some feelings of

inadequacy and at times discouragement and of being an

outsider.

 

I don't have the wisdom to offer any suggestions about this

situation. Just expressing some feelings.

 

Love,

Judy

[Guest guest]

Marcia:

 

This is absurd. Now instead of Ed who is paining

you it is Harsha and instead of Judy being injured we

have Tim. Wake up. Besides that Tim is just fine. IMO.

Last I checked he is alive and kicking. :-)

 

Melody wrote:

> It pained me to hear you sacrifice Tim for

> Marcus. Sacrifice the bad seed for the good

> one....even though the 'good' one has another

> list already in which the very same writings.

> get posted. (I to his ananda list,

> and greatly appreciate what he lovingly offers.

> I automatically delete his posts from this list,

> because I already have them neatly saved in

> digest version from his own list)

>

> And yet that's what made your apparent sacrifice

> of Tim all the more painful. If Marcus chose to leave because of Tim, we

> could easily continue to recieve

> all his posts!

>

> Harsha, you are so easy to love. That is why

> I followed you from Jerry's list here. But for

> those of us like Tim and I, who often find ourselves

> choking on our own spiritual dust, you are probably

> right that we find another place to call home.

>

> Yet may I share with you that the pain that your

> post stirred up helped me see something very

> clearly. It is the memory of the pain, and being

> 'thrown away' that keeps the ego holding on in

> someone like me. The ego was my friend, when

> I could find no one else. In a world quick

> to exterminate and exclude the impure, it

> actually propagates that which it would eliminate.