Guest guest Posted April 23, 1999 Report Share Posted April 23, 1999 On Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:28:36 +0100 "Vivekananda Centre" <vivekananda writes: >"Vivekananda Centre" <vivekananda > > >I am fascinated by the way Tim handles some issues on the mail list. > >(1) The ahimsa (non-violence) council - got a highly violent (himsak) >treatment. I don't see his response as violent -- passionate, even rude, but not actually violent. Tim energetically pointed out something quite important and interesting about the wisdom (or lack of same) of formally institutionalizing something (ahimsa) that is by nature an aspect of grace, a "gift of God." It reminded me of why the Devil is supposedly unafraid of humans' discovering the truth about the divine nature of consciousness -- "I'll help them *organize* it -- and *that* will assure my ongoing influence." >(2) Earlier Swami Muktananda - got sharp rebuke as how not to follow >the paths to spirituality prescribed by others (however great). > Here again Tim's was a bit heavy handed in context (lacking in politesse), but there was substance in what he said. I have enough testimony from reliable third parties concerning Muktananda to cast considerable doubt on him and his teachings, regardless of his place in anyone else's lineage. >I have not come across such a no-nonsense approach anywhere else. - I >fall out of my chair when I see some of Tim's postings -- they are >thoroughly violent and I reiterate, they are passionate and direct, perhaps even ill-advised considering the venue, but imho not "violent." >yet if I understand him rightly bear no malice or venom. >Am I right? > Tim is a volatile person subject to (imho) atypically wide mood swings, but that doesn't mean he's wrong all the time. What is rather interesting as seen from here is that his recent posts are quite similar in tone and impact to those of someone on Usenet who he himself has publically excoriated for inappropriate, egotisticial behavior. As for a "no- nonsense" approach, that can certainly be found from time to time elsewhere -- as a matter fact one can find it in the New Testament, in Jesus' confrontaion of the woman at the well and in the overturning of the money changers' tables. As pointed out in an earlier post to Harshacharya's list, one (wo)man's reverence is surely another's obsequious, indiscriminate hero worship. It is in the nature of certain honest people to incite reexamination of our most cherished assumptions (attachments). Tim and I have had and continue to have our disagreements, but here I find him putting truth before politesse -- who among us can dispute that priority? http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm m(_ _)m _ _________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 1999 Report Share Posted April 23, 1999 On Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:00:59 -0000 "Gemini" <currwamp writes: >Violence is any willfull damage for selfish reasons. > I agree. >The yogi is not affected by such silliness. > >Not all are yogis. > I'm not sure the ideal image of what a "yogi" is applies usefully to anything. >You can find garbage about any human. > Of course, and one commonality of all of us, "yogi" or otherwise, is our humanity. >those who look for the human characteristics are missing the point >Bruce. > Actually, the humanity of all our most revered ones is *exactly* the point. >Most avadhuts, whose feet we are not worthy to wash, are considered, >by American standards to be eccentric, rude, unruly, downright >bizarre. > >The personality is beside the point. > Apparently except for Tim's? :-) >The very fact that they are a focal lense for the Divine is going to >make them bizarre to the average american. > ....and their most clearly ugly attributes overlooked by "the average" Indian? Cultural ethnocentricity is not an exclusively American characteristic, it cuts both (actually several) ways. >Ones such as this do things for reasons we can't so obviously see. > ....and so are given license to do anything they please? >Do you want a case in point? > No, such tales hold little or no interest for a serious person. [anectdotal "case" snipped] > >You mean well, but you do not have even the most basic of knowledge >about something that is bigger than the lower mind will ever >comprehend. > Marcus, only Harshacharya's personal regard brought my full attention to your post. Now that I've attended your words, it's quite clear that you have nothing to say -- and not for lack of "knowledge." One dose of such vacuous, presumptuous condescension is enough for several lifetimes, thank you very much. I don't take it personally, and it says a great deal more about you than about Nityananda (who I know nothing of and have not commented upon at all), Bruce, or Tim. Much love -- Bruce >Mahagurubhakti >M > > Bruce Morgen <editor > NondualitySalon <NondualitySalon > > Cc: < >; >fewtch <fewtch > Friday, April 23, 1999 3:21 PM > Re: [NondualitySalon] Postings on the >list > > > Bruce Morgen <editor > > > > On Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:28:36 +0100 "Vivekananda Centre" > <vivekananda writes: > >"Vivekananda Centre" <vivekananda > > > > > >I am fascinated by the way Tim handles some issues on the mail >list. > > > >(1) The ahimsa (non-violence) council - got a highly violent >(himsak) > >treatment. > > I don't see his response as > violent -- passionate, even > rude, but not actually > violent. Tim energetically > pointed out something quite > important and interesting > about the wisdom (or lack of > same) of formally > institutionalizing something > (ahimsa) that is by nature > an aspect of grace, a "gift > of God." It reminded me of > why the Devil is supposedly > unafraid of humans' > discovering the truth about > the divine nature of > consciousness -- "I'll help > them *organize* it -- and > *that* will assure my > ongoing influence." > > >(2) Earlier Swami Muktananda - got sharp rebuke as how not to >follow > >the paths to spirituality prescribed by others (however great). > > > Here again Tim's was a bit > heavy handed in context > (lacking in politesse), but > there was substance in what > he said. I have enough > testimony from reliable > third parties concerning > Muktananda to cast > considerable doubt on him > and his teachings, > regardless of his place in > anyone else's lineage. > > >I have not come across such a no-nonsense approach anywhere else. >- I > >fall out of my chair when I see some of Tim's postings -- they >are > >thoroughly violent and > > I reiterate, they are > passionate and direct, > perhaps even ill-advised > considering the venue, but > imho not "violent." > > >yet if I understand him rightly bear no malice or venom. > >Am I right? > > > Tim is a volatile person > subject to (imho) atypically > wide mood swings, but that > doesn't mean he's wrong all > the time. What is rather > interesting as seen from > here is that his recent > posts are quite similar in > tone and impact to those of > someone on Usenet who he > himself has publically > excoriated for > inappropriate, egotisticial > behavior. As for a "no- > nonsense" approach, that can > certainly be found from time > to time elsewhere -- as a > matter fact one can find it > in the New Testament, in > Jesus' confrontaion of the > woman at the well and in the > overturning of the money > changers' tables. > > As pointed out in an earlier > post to Harshacharya's list, > one (wo)man's reverence is > surely another's obsequious, > indiscriminate hero worship. > It is in the nature of > certain honest people to > incite reexamination of our > most cherished assumptions > (attachments). Tim and I > have had and continue to have > our disagreements, but here I > find him putting truth before > politesse -- who among us > can dispute that priority? > > > http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm > http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm > m(_ _)m > _ _________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 1999 Report Share Posted April 23, 1999 On Sat, 24 Apr 1999 12:09:33 -0000 "Gemini" <currwamp writes: >Bruce, > you hide under a thin veil of politeness while making rude >remarks. > >equanimaty. > Equanimity is a synonym for composure -- this can manifest as "a thin veil of politeness" when more direct communication is regarded by consensus as inappropriate. >your actions must be the same as your words. > In a written venue, all we have is our words, so the above consistency is intrinsic. >If you look for the personality in the guru you will find it. > I'm not looking for anything in particular. >if you look for the Divine Shaktipat within you will find > I'm not looking for anything in particular. >gross or mundane. > ??? >Dont pretend to be nice while making backhanded remarks. > Advice noted. There is nothing "backhanded" in my words, they are as direct as common courtesy permits. >you are not very good at son. > Once again, Marcus, you say a great deal more about yourself than about anyone else. In deference to Harsha's stated preferences for conduct in this venue I will refrain from challenging your assumptions any further. Much love -- Bruce >L >M > > Bruce Morgen <editor > < > > Friday, April 23, 1999 4:48 PM > Re: [NondualitySalon] Postings on the >list > > > Bruce Morgen <editor > > > > On Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:00:59 -0000 "Gemini" <currwamp >writes: > > >Violence is any willfull damage for selfish reasons. > > > I agree. > > >The yogi is not affected by such silliness. > > > >Not all are yogis. > > > I'm not sure the ideal image > of what a "yogi" is applies > usefully to anything. > > >You can find garbage about any human. > > > Of course, and one commonality > of all of us, "yogi" or > otherwise, is our humanity. > > >those who look for the human characteristics are missing the >point > >Bruce. > > > Actually, the humanity of all > our most revered ones is > *exactly* the point. > > >Most avadhuts, whose feet we are not worthy to wash, are >considered, > >by American standards to be eccentric, rude, unruly, downright > >bizarre. > > > >The personality is beside the point. > > > Apparently except for Tim's? > :-) > > >The very fact that they are a focal lense for the Divine is going >to > >make them bizarre to the average american. > > > ...and their most clearly > ugly attributes overlooked > by "the average" Indian? > Cultural ethnocentricity is > not an exclusively American > characteristic, it cuts > both (actually several) > ways. > > >Ones such as this do things for reasons we can't so obviously >see. > > > ...and so are given license > to do anything they please? > > >Do you want a case in point? > > > No, such tales hold little > or no interest for a serious > person. > > [anectdotal "case" snipped] > > > >You mean well, but you do not have even the most basic of >knowledge >about something that is bigger than the lower mind will >ever > >comprehend. > > > Marcus, only Harshacharya's > personal regard brought my > full attention to your post. > Now that I've attended your > words, it's quite clear > that you have nothing to > say -- and not for lack of > "knowledge." One dose of > such vacuous, presumptuous > condescension is enough for > several lifetimes, thank > you very much. I don't > take it personally, and it > says a great deal more about > you than about Nityananda > (who I know nothing of and > have not commented upon at > all), Bruce, or Tim. > > Much love -- Bruce > > > >Mahagurubhakti > >M > > > > Bruce Morgen <editor > > NondualitySalon <NondualitySalon > > > Cc: < >; > >fewtch <fewtch > > Friday, April 23, 1999 3:21 PM > > Re: [NondualitySalon] Postings on >the >list > > > > > > Bruce Morgen <editor > > > > > > > > On Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:28:36 +0100 "Vivekananda Centre" > > <vivekananda writes: > > >"Vivekananda Centre" <vivekananda > > > > > > > > >I am fascinated by the way Tim handles some issues on the >mail >list. > > > > > >(1) The ahimsa (non-violence) council - got a highly violent > > >(himsak) > > >treatment. > > > > I don't see his response as > > violent -- passionate, even > > rude, but not actually > > violent. Tim energetically > > pointed out something quite > > important and interesting > > about the wisdom (or lack of > > same) of formally > > institutionalizing something > > (ahimsa) that is by nature > > an aspect of grace, a "gift > > of God." It reminded me of > > why the Devil is supposedly > > unafraid of humans' > > discovering the truth about > > the divine nature of > > consciousness -- "I'll help > > them *organize* it -- and > > *that* will assure my > > ongoing influence." > > > > >(2) Earlier Swami Muktananda - got sharp rebuke as how not >to > >follow > > >the paths to spirituality prescribed by others (however >great). > > > > > Here again Tim's was a bit > > heavy handed in context > > (lacking in politesse), but > > there was substance in what > > he said. I have enough > > testimony from reliable > > third parties concerning > > Muktananda to cast > > considerable doubt on him > > and his teachings, > > regardless of his place in > > anyone else's lineage. > > > > >I have not come across such a no-nonsense approach anywhere >else. > >- I > > >fall out of my chair when I see some of Tim's postings -- >they >are > > >thoroughly violent and > > > > I reiterate, they are > > passionate and direct, > > perhaps even ill-advised > > considering the venue, but > > imho not "violent." > > > > >yet if I understand him rightly bear no malice or venom. > > >Am I right? > > > > > Tim is a volatile person > > subject to (imho) atypically > > wide mood swings, but that > > doesn't mean he's wrong all > > the time. What is rather > > interesting as seen from > > here is that his recent > > posts are quite similar in > > tone and impact to those of > > someone on Usenet who he > > himself has publically > > excoriated for > > inappropriate, egotisticial > > behavior. As for a "no- > > nonsense" approach, that can > > certainly be found from time > > to time elsewhere -- as a > > matter fact one can find it > > in the New Testament, in > > Jesus' confrontaion of the > > woman at the well and in the > > overturning of the money > > changers' tables. > > > > As pointed out in an earlier > > post to Harshacharya's list, > > one (wo)man's reverence is > > surely another's obsequious, > > indiscriminate hero worship. > > It is in the nature of > > certain honest people to > > incite reexamination of our > > most cherished assumptions > > (attachments). Tim and I > > have had and continue to have > > our disagreements, but here I > > find him putting truth before > > politesse -- who among us > > can dispute that priority? > > > > > > http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm > > http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm > > m(_ _)m > > _ http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm m(_ _)m _ _________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 1999 Report Share Posted April 23, 1999 > "Vivekananda Centre" <vivekananda > > > I am fascinated by the way Tim handles some issues on the mail list. More like "déja vu". > > (1) The ahimsa (non-violence) council - got a highly violent (himsak) > treatment. Ghandi was murdered despite (because of) Ahimsa (depending on interpretation). > (2) Earlier Swami Muktananda - got sharp rebuke as how not to follow the > paths to spirituality prescribed by others (however great). No wonder if one reads NG's with a number of abuses by teachers posted. > I have not come across such a no-nonsense approach anywhere else. - I fall > out of my chair when I see some of Tim's postings -- they are thoroughly > violent and yet if I understand him rightly bear no malice or venom. Am I > right? > > jay It is just a matter of interpretation. Interpretation causes feelings to arise (if one still has them). So right and wrong are irrelevant when one refrains from interpretation. If a small child, out of ignorance puts his hand in a fire there isn't right or wrong either. But nevertheless the consequence is a burned hand and this isn't the "big" punishment for the child; the blaring of the horrified grown ups is Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 1999 Report Share Posted April 24, 1999 Violence is any willfull damage for selfish reasons. The yogi is not affected by such silliness. Not all are yogis. You can find garbage about any human. those who look for the human characteristics are missing the point Bruce. Most avadhuts, whose feet we are not worthy to wash, are considered, by American standards to be eccentric, rude, unruly, downright bizarre. The personality is beside the point. The very fact that they are a focal lense for the Divine is going to make them bizarre to the average american. Ones such as this do things for reasons we can't so obviously see. Do you want a case in point? Nityananda was walking down the road once and came upon a pregnant woman. He walked up to her and squeezed her breasts, then took up walking again. The shocked woman stood there amazed. People began to shout and chase after him, as he yelled back "This baby will live!" He quickly outdistanced them. The woman yelled at the people to stop, so they did. It turns out that the woman had three children previously, but after she breast fed them, they each died. Something we know now as the rh factor in the blood. Her fourth baby lived. You mean well, but you do not have even the most basic of knowledge about something that is bigger than the lower mind will ever comprehend. Mahagurubhakti M Bruce Morgen <editor NondualitySalon <NondualitySalon > Cc: < >; fewtch <fewtch Friday, April 23, 1999 3:21 PM Re: [NondualitySalon] Postings on the list Bruce Morgen <editor On Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:28:36 +0100 "Vivekananda Centre" <vivekananda writes: >"Vivekananda Centre" <vivekananda > > >I am fascinated by the way Tim handles some issues on the mail list. > >(1) The ahimsa (non-violence) council - got a highly violent (himsak) >treatment. I don't see his response as violent -- passionate, even rude, but not actually violent. Tim energetically pointed out something quite important and interesting about the wisdom (or lack of same) of formally institutionalizing something (ahimsa) that is by nature an aspect of grace, a "gift of God." It reminded me of why the Devil is supposedly unafraid of humans' discovering the truth about the divine nature of consciousness -- "I'll help them *organize* it -- and *that* will assure my ongoing influence." >(2) Earlier Swami Muktananda - got sharp rebuke as how not to follow >the paths to spirituality prescribed by others (however great). > Here again Tim's was a bit heavy handed in context (lacking in politesse), but there was substance in what he said. I have enough testimony from reliable third parties concerning Muktananda to cast considerable doubt on him and his teachings, regardless of his place in anyone else's lineage. >I have not come across such a no-nonsense approach anywhere else. - I >fall out of my chair when I see some of Tim's postings -- they are >thoroughly violent and I reiterate, they are passionate and direct, perhaps even ill-advised considering the venue, but imho not "violent." >yet if I understand him rightly bear no malice or venom. >Am I right? > Tim is a volatile person subject to (imho) atypically wide mood swings, but that doesn't mean he's wrong all the time. What is rather interesting as seen from here is that his recent posts are quite similar in tone and impact to those of someone on Usenet who he himself has publically excoriated for inappropriate, egotisticial behavior. As for a "no- nonsense" approach, that can certainly be found from time to time elsewhere -- as a matter fact one can find it in the New Testament, in Jesus' confrontaion of the woman at the well and in the overturning of the money changers' tables. As pointed out in an earlier post to Harshacharya's list, one (wo)man's reverence is surely another's obsequious, indiscriminate hero worship. It is in the nature of certain honest people to incite reexamination of our most cherished assumptions (attachments). Tim and I have had and continue to have our disagreements, but here I find him putting truth before politesse -- who among us can dispute that priority? http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm m(_ _)m _ _________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------ Did you know that knowledge is power? http://www.ONElist.com Join a new ONElist e-mail community and strengthen your mind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 1999 Report Share Posted April 24, 1999 Bruce, you hide under a thin veil of politeness while making rude remarks. equanimaty. your actions must be the same as your words. If you look for the personality in the guru you will find it. if you look for the Divine Shaktipat within you will find gross or mundane. Dont pretend to be nice while making backhanded remarks. you are not very good at son. L M Bruce Morgen <editor < > Friday, April 23, 1999 4:48 PM Re: [NondualitySalon] Postings on the list Bruce Morgen <editor On Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:00:59 -0000 "Gemini" <currwamp writes: >Violence is any willfull damage for selfish reasons. > I agree. >The yogi is not affected by such silliness. > >Not all are yogis. > I'm not sure the ideal image of what a "yogi" is applies usefully to anything. >You can find garbage about any human. > Of course, and one commonality of all of us, "yogi" or otherwise, is our humanity. >those who look for the human characteristics are missing the point >Bruce. > Actually, the humanity of all our most revered ones is *exactly* the point. >Most avadhuts, whose feet we are not worthy to wash, are considered, >by American standards to be eccentric, rude, unruly, downright >bizarre. > >The personality is beside the point. > Apparently except for Tim's? :-) >The very fact that they are a focal lense for the Divine is going to >make them bizarre to the average american. > ...and their most clearly ugly attributes overlooked by "the average" Indian? Cultural ethnocentricity is not an exclusively American characteristic, it cuts both (actually several) ways. >Ones such as this do things for reasons we can't so obviously see. > ...and so are given license to do anything they please? >Do you want a case in point? > No, such tales hold little or no interest for a serious person. [anectdotal "case" snipped] > >You mean well, but you do not have even the most basic of knowledge >about something that is bigger than the lower mind will ever >comprehend. > Marcus, only Harshacharya's personal regard brought my full attention to your post. Now that I've attended your words, it's quite clear that you have nothing to say -- and not for lack of "knowledge." One dose of such vacuous, presumptuous condescension is enough for several lifetimes, thank you very much. I don't take it personally, and it says a great deal more about you than about Nityananda (who I know nothing of and have not commented upon at all), Bruce, or Tim. Much love -- Bruce >Mahagurubhakti >M > > Bruce Morgen <editor > NondualitySalon <NondualitySalon > > Cc: < >; >fewtch <fewtch > Friday, April 23, 1999 3:21 PM > Re: [NondualitySalon] Postings on the >list > > > Bruce Morgen <editor > > > > On Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:28:36 +0100 "Vivekananda Centre" > <vivekananda writes: > >"Vivekananda Centre" <vivekananda > > > > > >I am fascinated by the way Tim handles some issues on the mail >list. > > > >(1) The ahimsa (non-violence) council - got a highly violent >(himsak) > >treatment. > > I don't see his response as > violent -- passionate, even > rude, but not actually > violent. Tim energetically > pointed out something quite > important and interesting > about the wisdom (or lack of > same) of formally > institutionalizing something > (ahimsa) that is by nature > an aspect of grace, a "gift > of God." It reminded me of > why the Devil is supposedly > unafraid of humans' > discovering the truth about > the divine nature of > consciousness -- "I'll help > them *organize* it -- and > *that* will assure my > ongoing influence." > > >(2) Earlier Swami Muktananda - got sharp rebuke as how not to >follow > >the paths to spirituality prescribed by others (however great). > > > Here again Tim's was a bit > heavy handed in context > (lacking in politesse), but > there was substance in what > he said. I have enough > testimony from reliable > third parties concerning > Muktananda to cast > considerable doubt on him > and his teachings, > regardless of his place in > anyone else's lineage. > > >I have not come across such a no-nonsense approach anywhere else. >- I > >fall out of my chair when I see some of Tim's postings -- they >are > >thoroughly violent and > > I reiterate, they are > passionate and direct, > perhaps even ill-advised > considering the venue, but > imho not "violent." > > >yet if I understand him rightly bear no malice or venom. > >Am I right? > > > Tim is a volatile person > subject to (imho) atypically > wide mood swings, but that > doesn't mean he's wrong all > the time. What is rather > interesting as seen from > here is that his recent > posts are quite similar in > tone and impact to those of > someone on Usenet who he > himself has publically > excoriated for > inappropriate, egotisticial > behavior. As for a "no- > nonsense" approach, that can > certainly be found from time > to time elsewhere -- as a > matter fact one can find it > in the New Testament, in > Jesus' confrontaion of the > woman at the well and in the > overturning of the money > changers' tables. > > As pointed out in an earlier > post to Harshacharya's list, > one (wo)man's reverence is > surely another's obsequious, > indiscriminate hero worship. > It is in the nature of > certain honest people to > incite reexamination of our > most cherished assumptions > (attachments). Tim and I > have had and continue to have > our disagreements, but here I > find him putting truth before > politesse -- who among us > can dispute that priority? > > > http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm > http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm > m(_ _)m > _ _________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------ Looking to expand your world? http://www.ONElist.com ONElist has over 115,000 e-mail communities from which to chose! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 1999 Report Share Posted April 24, 1999 Good choice L M Bruce Morgen <editor < > Friday, April 23, 1999 5:34 PM Re: [NondualitySalon] Postings on the list Bruce Morgen <editor On Sat, 24 Apr 1999 12:09:33 -0000 "Gemini" <currwamp writes: >Bruce, > you hide under a thin veil of politeness while making rude >remarks. > >equanimaty. > Equanimity is a synonym for composure -- this can manifest as "a thin veil of politeness" when more direct communication is regarded by consensus as inappropriate. >your actions must be the same as your words. > In a written venue, all we have is our words, so the above consistency is intrinsic. >If you look for the personality in the guru you will find it. > I'm not looking for anything in particular. >if you look for the Divine Shaktipat within you will find > I'm not looking for anything in particular. >gross or mundane. > ??? >Dont pretend to be nice while making backhanded remarks. > Advice noted. There is nothing "backhanded" in my words, they are as direct as common courtesy permits. >you are not very good at son. > Once again, Marcus, you say a great deal more about yourself than about anyone else. In deference to Harsha's stated preferences for conduct in this venue I will refrain from challenging your assumptions any further. Much love -- Bruce >L >M > > Bruce Morgen <editor > < > > Friday, April 23, 1999 4:48 PM > Re: [NondualitySalon] Postings on the >list > > > Bruce Morgen <editor > > > > On Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:00:59 -0000 "Gemini" <currwamp >writes: > > >Violence is any willfull damage for selfish reasons. > > > I agree. > > >The yogi is not affected by such silliness. > > > >Not all are yogis. > > > I'm not sure the ideal image > of what a "yogi" is applies > usefully to anything. > > >You can find garbage about any human. > > > Of course, and one commonality > of all of us, "yogi" or > otherwise, is our humanity. > > >those who look for the human characteristics are missing the >point > >Bruce. > > > Actually, the humanity of all > our most revered ones is > *exactly* the point. > > >Most avadhuts, whose feet we are not worthy to wash, are >considered, > >by American standards to be eccentric, rude, unruly, downright > >bizarre. > > > >The personality is beside the point. > > > Apparently except for Tim's? > :-) > > >The very fact that they are a focal lense for the Divine is going >to > >make them bizarre to the average american. > > > ...and their most clearly > ugly attributes overlooked > by "the average" Indian? > Cultural ethnocentricity is > not an exclusively American > characteristic, it cuts > both (actually several) > ways. > > >Ones such as this do things for reasons we can't so obviously >see. > > > ...and so are given license > to do anything they please? > > >Do you want a case in point? > > > No, such tales hold little > or no interest for a serious > person. > > [anectdotal "case" snipped] > > > >You mean well, but you do not have even the most basic of >knowledge >about something that is bigger than the lower mind will >ever > >comprehend. > > > Marcus, only Harshacharya's > personal regard brought my > full attention to your post. > Now that I've attended your > words, it's quite clear > that you have nothing to > say -- and not for lack of > "knowledge." One dose of > such vacuous, presumptuous > condescension is enough for > several lifetimes, thank > you very much. I don't > take it personally, and it > says a great deal more about > you than about Nityananda > (who I know nothing of and > have not commented upon at > all), Bruce, or Tim. > > Much love -- Bruce > > > >Mahagurubhakti > >M > > > > Bruce Morgen <editor > > NondualitySalon <NondualitySalon > > > Cc: < >; > >fewtch <fewtch > > Friday, April 23, 1999 3:21 PM > > Re: [NondualitySalon] Postings on >the >list > > > > > > Bruce Morgen <editor > > > > > > > > On Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:28:36 +0100 "Vivekananda Centre" > > <vivekananda writes: > > >"Vivekananda Centre" <vivekananda > > > > > > > > >I am fascinated by the way Tim handles some issues on the >mail >list. > > > > > >(1) The ahimsa (non-violence) council - got a highly violent > > >(himsak) > > >treatment. > > > > I don't see his response as > > violent -- passionate, even > > rude, but not actually > > violent. Tim energetically > > pointed out something quite > > important and interesting > > about the wisdom (or lack of > > same) of formally > > institutionalizing something > > (ahimsa) that is by nature > > an aspect of grace, a "gift > > of God." It reminded me of > > why the Devil is supposedly > > unafraid of humans' > > discovering the truth about > > the divine nature of > > consciousness -- "I'll help > > them *organize* it -- and > > *that* will assure my > > ongoing influence." > > > > >(2) Earlier Swami Muktananda - got sharp rebuke as how not >to > >follow > > >the paths to spirituality prescribed by others (however >great). > > > > > Here again Tim's was a bit > > heavy handed in context > > (lacking in politesse), but > > there was substance in what > > he said. I have enough > > testimony from reliable > > third parties concerning > > Muktananda to cast > > considerable doubt on him > > and his teachings, > > regardless of his place in > > anyone else's lineage. > > > > >I have not come across such a no-nonsense approach anywhere >else. > >- I > > >fall out of my chair when I see some of Tim's postings -- >they >are > > >thoroughly violent and > > > > I reiterate, they are > > passionate and direct, > > perhaps even ill-advised > > considering the venue, but > > imho not "violent." > > > > >yet if I understand him rightly bear no malice or venom. > > >Am I right? > > > > > Tim is a volatile person > > subject to (imho) atypically > > wide mood swings, but that > > doesn't mean he's wrong all > > the time. What is rather > > interesting as seen from > > here is that his recent > > posts are quite similar in > > tone and impact to those of > > someone on Usenet who he > > himself has publically > > excoriated for > > inappropriate, egotisticial > > behavior. As for a "no- > > nonsense" approach, that can > > certainly be found from time > > to time elsewhere -- as a > > matter fact one can find it > > in the New Testament, in > > Jesus' confrontaion of the > > woman at the well and in the > > overturning of the money > > changers' tables. > > > > As pointed out in an earlier > > post to Harshacharya's list, > > one (wo)man's reverence is > > surely another's obsequious, > > indiscriminate hero worship. > > It is in the nature of > > certain honest people to > > incite reexamination of our > > most cherished assumptions > > (attachments). Tim and I > > have had and continue to have > > our disagreements, but here I > > find him putting truth before > > politesse -- who among us > > can dispute that priority? > > > > > > http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm > > http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm > > m(_ _)m > > _ http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm m(_ _)m _ _________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------ Looking for the perfect gift for a friend? http://www.ONElist.com Tell them about ONElist's 115,000 free e-mail communities! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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