Guest guest Posted April 28, 1999 Report Share Posted April 28, 1999 Hi, I would like to introduce myself. My name is Liliana and I am a yogi within Advaita Vedanta tradition. I have been on Nonduality and this lists for 3 weeks now and on Advaitin list for 5 months The timing of my introduction coincides unintentionally with Debora's question but I promise to write sth within the next few days (also to comment on Gurdijev's "description" of a yogi). Just reading the posts became recently a full time job and I have not retired yet. BTW, thanks for today's "the highest purpose of life" posts. Namaste. Liliana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 1999 Report Share Posted April 28, 1999 Welcome Lilliana! little background, my path is vajrayana buddhist, and i posted out of a certain curiosity in how different but often related spiritual paths define the word 'yogi'. sorry to say in my own im not even so sure what it means. its one of those things that when i think about it, starts with something call renunciation. But what does that mean, what can that mean to a lay person on a path? And can anyone who does any sort of yoga be called a yogi? Tidbits for discussion --janpa tsomo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 1999 Report Share Posted April 28, 1999 >little background, my path is vajrayana buddhist, and i posted out of a >certain curiosity in how different but often related spiritual paths >define the word 'yogi'. >sorry to say in my own im not even so sure what it means. its one of those >things that when i think about it, starts with something call >renunciation. But what does that mean, what can that mean to a lay person >on a path? >And can anyone who does any sort of yoga be called a yogi? >Tidbits for discussion --janpa tsomo Hi Janpa: Patanjali makes a statement that "The actions of the Yogi are neither white nor black; but the actions of others are of three kinds: good, bad and mixed." (4:7). By that he means that the yogi does all actions with such equanimity he is beyond duality and beyond the effects of karma. This statement appears to confer the title of 'yogi' on someone who has achieved the true goal of yoga which is according to him to "restrain the modification of the mind-stuff". However, between these two statements there are the techniques and stages that bring one to the 'equanimity' of which he speaks. If a person is working on the 8 limbs his life would pretty much be lived as a yogi, I would think that such a person could be considered a yogi. Though I suppose some systems would define a person doing the practices as a disciple, sadakha, seeker etc. But then if a person has learned how to move beyond even one of the malas or impurities of the mind ie., anger has not that person achieved a restraint of mind-stuff? He further claims that "One's wisdom in the final stage is sevenfold: he experiences the end of the desire to know anything more, desire to stay away from any things, desire to gain anything new, desire to do anything, and the end of sorrow, fear, delusion. One could say, depending on the system of belief that what he is speaking of is a 'liberated being'. So are we speaking of a yogi as someone who is 'enlightened' or working on 'enlightenment'.? I personally believe that one who practices yoga beyond attending a yoga class at the gym is a yogi or yogini but that is simply my belief. Namaste, Linda ------ Have you visited the new ONElist home page lately? http://www.ONElist.com ONElist: The Leading e-mail list and community service on the Internet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 1999 Report Share Posted May 1, 1999 > "Linda Callanan" <shastra [...] > So are we speaking of a yogi as someone who is 'enlightened' or working on > 'enlightenment'.? > I personally believe that one who practices yoga beyond attending a yoga > class at the gym is a yogi or yogini but that is simply my belief. > > Namaste, > Linda Linda, According to an encyclopedia, a male practitioner of yoga is called yogi(n) and a female practitioner yogini. Remains to find what constitutes the practice of yoga; I couldn't resist reshuffling a few Sutras 1.2 Austerity, study, devotion to God, constitute practical yoga. 21.1 Success is immediate where effort is intense. 2.2 The aim is to attain Illumination and to destroy afflictions. 23.1 Illumination is also attained by devotion to God. 12.3 Karma, whether fulfilled in present or future life, has its root in afflictions. 11.2 The grosser afflictions disappear through meditation. 10.2 The finer afflictions disappear as mind disappears in Illumination 17.2 The link between the Seer and the seen, creates misery, is to be broken. 20.2 The Seer is sight itself, but though untainted, appears if tainted through the vagaries of the intellect. 22.2 The seen is dead to him who has attained liberation, but is alive to others, being common to all. This is from the translation (1937, 1952) by Purohit Swami, who dedicates the book as follows: In gratefulness to my Master Bhagwan Shree Hamsa at whose feet I sat and learnt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 1999 Report Share Posted May 2, 1999 Hello Jan, >1.2 Austerity, study, devotion to God, constitute practical yoga. >21.1 Success is immediate where effort is intense. >2.2 The aim is to attain Illumination and to destroy afflictions. >23.1 Illumination is also attained by devotion to God. >12.3 Karma, whether fulfilled in present or future life, has its root in >afflictions. >11.2 The grosser afflictions disappear through meditation. >10.2 The finer afflictions disappear as mind disappears in Illumination >17.2 The link between the Seer and the seen, creates misery, is to be >broken. >20.2 The Seer is sight itself, but though untainted, appears if tainted >through the vagaries of the intellect. >22.2 The seen is dead to him who has attained liberation, but is alive to >others, being common to all. 17.2 - Recently I have been feeling as if there were some type of bridge between the intellect and self - this reference to the link resonates as the same concept. My awareness of this link as a bridge brings me to the realization that somewhere within myself I feel as if I need this bridge. At the same time I have been having dreams of being in water or dancing across ice - there is no bridge necessary in this state. Sometimes it feels as if I 'm an executioner.....whatever becomes understood is then scheduled to be eliminated . Linda This is from the translation (1937, 1952) by Purohit Swami, who dedicates the book as follows: In gratefulness to my Master Bhagwan Shree Hamsa at whose feet I sat and learnt ------ Looking for a new hobby? Want to make a new friend? Come join one of the 130,000 e-mail communities at ONElist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 1999 Report Share Posted May 2, 1999 > "Linda Callanan" <shastra > > > > > > Hello Jan, [...] > 17.2 - Recently I have been feeling as if there were some type of bridge > between the intellect and self - this reference to the link > resonates as the > same concept. My awareness of this link as a bridge brings me to the > realization that somewhere within myself I feel as if I need this bridge. > At the same time I have been having dreams of being in water or dancing > across ice - there is no bridge necessary in this state. > Sometimes it feels > as if I 'm an executioner.....whatever becomes understood is then > scheduled > to be eliminated . > > Linda [...] The link is what I offered at the NDS; it is the automatic interpretation of the seen, followed by the eventual execution of the result of interpretation. When the Seer is sight itself, this link is broken. So the link isn't a bridge in the sense that there is something of a continuous process; either the link is broken or it still exists. 24.2 The cause of this link is ignorance 25.2 No ignorance, no link. The breaking of the link reveals the independence of the Seer. Ignorance is the absence of jnana; jnana is to be understood as Self-realization (enlightenment). Because nowhere in the Sutras there is any mentioning of Kundalini, it is likely enlightenment precedes becoming aware of Kundalini. This sequence is a kind of "guarantee" that the rising of K. won't cause problems to the practitioner, so there's no point in mentioning it. The Sutras aren't put in a sequence of "what will happen to a sincere practitioner", probably as an incentive to zealous study, reflection and meditation - providing a roadmap is counter productive to devotion / surrendering Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 1999 Report Share Posted May 2, 1999 Hi Jan: It's probably best that there is no road map as I'm not very good at reading maps anyway (used to drive my poor ex-husband crazy to be in a car w/me for long trips not only couldn't I figure out the map I preferred to just drift along when lost). But I believe that I'm getting really good at this surrendering went to the dentist this morning for what I thought was a quick check up on some work. Turned out to be a two hour surgical procedure first the novocaine numbed up my eye lid so I couldn't close it, then the bone had regenerated to the point that some had to be removed. The dental assistant kept telling me you are very calm - not much devotion but a lot of surrendering was going on within me . >The Sutras aren't put in a sequence of "what will happen to a sincere >practitioner", probably as an incentive to zealous study, reflection and >meditation - providing a roadmap is counter productive to devotion / >surrendering Jan Linda ------ Did you know that we add over 1,000 new e-mail communities every day? http://www.ONElist.com Explore a new hobby, discover a new friend, laugh at a new joke! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 1999 Report Share Posted May 2, 1999 jb wrote: > Ignorance is the absence of jnana; jnana is to be understood as > Self-realization (enlightenment). Because nowhere in the Sutras there is any > mentioning of Kundalini, it is likely enlightenment precedes becoming aware > of Kundalini. This sequence is a kind of "guarantee" that the rising of K. > won't cause problems to the practitioner, so there's no point in mentioning > it. > > The Sutras aren't put in a sequence of "what will happen to a sincere > practitioner", probably as an incentive to zealous study, reflection and > meditation - providing a roadmap is counter productive to devotion / > surrendering Marcia: I have a question for you Jan. I am not sure if it is connected with this thread or not. I have noticed that on occasion an event will happen that in my ordinary state of consciousness I react negatively and manifest the reaction. Twice in the last two days I have noticed that the reaction rises to a point I think right around my solar plexus and it is almost as if it turns as I breath. Almost as if I just press the reset button and as I do there is a release which almost feels orgasmic. I feel the energy just settle and flow out through my arms and legs and even the top of my head. And then I "deal" with the situation. I don't try to do this but it does seem to happen if I have been centered and keeping some attention inside rather than having it all sucked away by externals. And more than "just" attention there is a devoted quality to the process. A recognition of the existence of something much larger than "myself". The first situation was a physical situation with my father that I found unpleasant and the second situation involved my daughter who was emotionally trying to "get my goat". That is a question. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 1999 Report Share Posted May 2, 1999 [...] > Marcia: > > I have a question for you Jan. I am not sure if it is connected with > this thread or not. - It is now > I have noticed that on occasion an event will happen that in my > ordinary state of consciousness I react negatively and manifest > the reaction. Twice in the last two days I have noticed that the > reaction rises to a point I think right around my solar plexus and > it is almost as if it turns as I breath. Almost as if I just press the > reset button and as I do there is a release which almost feels > orgasmic. I feel the energy just settle and flow out through my > arms and legs and even the top of my head. And then I "deal" > with the situation. I don't try to do this but it does seem to > happen if I have been centered and keeping some attention inside > rather than having it all sucked away by externals. And more > than "just" attention there is a devoted quality to the process. > A recognition of the existence of something much larger than > "myself". > > The first situation was a physical situation with my father that > I found unpleasant and the second situation involved my > daughter who was emotionally trying to "get my goat". > > That is a question. :-) Marcia, Apparently you are developing well along one of the lines of classical yoga. I remember the solar plexus as a "place" to become aware of all arising negativity like judgments and anger. The mere awareness of arising offered the opportunity to act out of compassion, love, understanding - always the 'right thing' for the particular event. In your case, recognizing the existence of as you say 'something much larger than "myself"' denotes you are the witness; the devoted quality holds a promise. It doesn't come as a surprise that 'pushing the right button' frees a lot of energy. That energy powered the negative reactions. When the solar plexus has been cleaned out, the travel will go to the heart center where the holy grail will be obtained. Remaining the witness is the key but at times it can be a bit painful - did you notice that already? Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 1999 Report Share Posted May 2, 1999 jb wrote: > Apparently you are developing well along one of the lines of classical yoga. > I remember the solar plexus as a "place" to become aware of all arising > negativity like judgments and anger. The mere awareness of arising offered > the opportunity to act out of compassion, love, understanding - always the > 'right thing' for the particular event. > > In your case, recognizing the existence of as you say 'something much larger > than > "myself"' denotes you are the witness; the devoted quality holds a promise. > It doesn't come as a surprise that 'pushing the right button' frees a lot of > energy. That energy powered the negative reactions. When the solar plexus > has been cleaned out, the travel will go to the heart center where the holy > grail will be obtained. Remaining the witness is the key but at times it can > be a bit painful - did you notice that already? > Marcia: I have noticed a burning sensation in my heart center very intense at times and a more localized intensity in my throat center. Painful, yes, in more than one way. Physically painful as I bear the sensations. Painful as I watch some personalities come out of the dark which are a little scary to own. Painful because by staying in the witness I "see" that all that I thought that I was is really nothing at all. The realization of my own nothingness is really the most frightening thing of all. I think that is the gift that is only given if one can bear it. One thing that is helpful though is to know that others understand or that others have traveled the same path. That is helpful. One thing that is somewhat bewildering me at the moment is all the different things that seem to be coming out both in terms of impressions and energy runs. It is like someone pulled the plug and now everything is coming up all at once with little discrimination. The consensus trance part of me is quite taken aback. And I am not quite sure what to do with all this energy and "stuff". I have decided the best thing to do is nothing at all. Just watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 1999 Report Share Posted May 3, 1999 > Marcia Paul <jacpa > > > > jb wrote: > > > Apparently you are developing well along one of the lines of > classical yoga. > > I remember the solar plexus as a "place" to become aware of all arising > > negativity like judgments and anger. The mere awareness of > arising offered > > the opportunity to act out of compassion, love, understanding - > always the > > 'right thing' for the particular event. > > > > In your case, recognizing the existence of as you say > 'something much larger > > than > > "myself"' denotes you are the witness; the devoted quality > holds a promise. > > It doesn't come as a surprise that 'pushing the right button' > frees a lot of > > energy. That energy powered the negative reactions. When the > solar plexus > > has been cleaned out, the travel will go to the heart center > where the holy > > grail will be obtained. Remaining the witness is the key but at > times it can > > be a bit painful - did you notice that already? > > > > Marcia: > > I have noticed a burning sensation in my heart center very intense > at times and a more localized intensity in my throat center. > > Painful, yes, in more than one way. Physically painful as I bear > the sensations. Painful as I watch some personalities come out > of the dark which are a little scary to own. Painful because by > staying in the witness I "see" that all that I thought that I was is > really nothing at all. The realization of my own nothingness is > really the most frightening thing of all. I think that is the gift that > is only given if one can bear it. The physical pain I've known very well - only it was interpreted "good" because it was associated with "progress". When I was lost in self-absorption and a relative or friend came along and said something like "Jan, you're looking worried. Wouldn't you like to..." - and a proposal came, to engage in some kind of enjoyment. It was impossible to say: "all enjoyment is dead to me; there is no satisfaction in whatever the world can offer"; it would have hurt the relative or friend beyond recuperation. At moments like this, being the witness is a non-physical pain. Part of the process always is painful; anyone who says it isn't, is automatically debunked. To bear all that comes on "the path" is a gift indeed, but perhaps you can see in retrospect that life has been preparing you from childhood on. What is called "right action" is always the result of experience and insight. The ability to come to insight and to act accordingly is the gift. In the end, it enables one to cut through all layers of "ego". > One thing that is helpful though is to know that others understand > or that others have traveled the same path. That is helpful. > One thing that is somewhat bewildering me at the moment is all > the different things that seem to be coming out both in terms of > impressions and energy runs. It is like someone pulled the plug > and now everything is coming up all at once with little discrimination. > The consensus trance part of me is quite taken aback. And I am > not quite sure what to do with all this energy and "stuff". I have > decided the best thing to do is nothing at all. Just watch. "Do nothing and just watch" is the right thing indeed. There is a paradox: the notion of "little discrimination" and "many impressions" only exists as long as duality exists. After that, there is Peace and "no discrimination" all of a sudden is equanimity and clarity. For the "old me" the gradual falling away of filters can at times be overwhelming. If all practitioners were doing so well as you are, magazines like the Yoga Journal would probably go bankrupt and ashrams would be empty Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 1999 Report Share Posted May 3, 1999 >Marcia Paul <jacpa >I have noticed a burning sensation in my heart center very intense >at times and a more localized intensity in my throat center. > Yes, Marcia, I know what you mean, I've had that intensity - almost a heat - in my throat center for several years now. It isn't bothersome, but it is noticeable, and I don't know what it is all about. And then the heart - sometimes needle-like jabs, other times a large sensation of hollowness. >Painful, yes, in more than one way. Physically painful as I bear >the sensations. Painful as I watch some personalities come out >of the dark which are a little scary to own. Painful because by >staying in the witness I "see" that all that I thought that I was is >really nothing at all. The realization of my own nothingness is >really the most frightening thing of all. I think that is the gift that >is only given if one can bear it. > Yes, almost as if one's personal self were fermenting (which is another word for rotting), releasing heat and energy. But the realization of "your" emptiness brings you very close to the question of who "you" really are. If all that can rot and fall away, what or who is left to witness? The process is like staying behind after the last performance of a play to watch the stage crew strike the set. Bit after bit, wall after wall you see what was oh-so-solid come down to be revealed to be flimsy canvas stretched over light wooden frames, all designed by a master of trompe-l'oieul. If you then look (still in the witness) over the stacks of canvas you might see the designer's faint signature on the back of what once appeared to be a solid wall. "A child said _What is the grass?_ fetching it to me with full hands; How could I answer the child? I do not know what it is any more than he... ....I guess it is the handkerchief of the Lord, A scented gift and remembrancer designedly dropt, Bearing the owner's name someway in the corners, that we may see and remark, and say _Whose?_" - From "Song of Myself", Walt Whitman, _Leaves of Grass_ David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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