wonderful guest

[Guest guest]

On Mon, 10 May 1999 09:04:39 Debora A. Orf wrote:

>when i first heard this vow, i felt like everything in me stood on end. it

>was something wonderful, and i had to do it . Cant tell if motivation

>was compassion or just "Wow! that's cool!". Maybe a little of both .

>

>IMO: there's little more cool thing to do than to live for others for

>real. its like way hard to do, but what a cool thing! i want to do that.

>im not there yet, but i want to be.

 

Well, Deborah, I am happy that you view the vows with

such enthusiasm.

 

I personally won't take the vows

(if I ever do it) with eagerness.

 

To me the vow means volunteering for a very very

long tour of duty. It means to promise to stay behind

after having attained enlightenment (when and where

that may happen, if ever) and be

one of the last

beings who leave the universe for nirvana/moksha

to become one with the I AM /god/ The Force.

 

That may take a very long time and it will require

a lot of hard work and self sacrifice.

 

I'm sure you know all this, I just want to express why

I find the vows so difficult and yet so beautiful.

 

As the ego driven being I still am,

to be very frank with you,

I would rather, if I had my ego driven way,

become one with god, permanently, instead of being spun

back through the samsara, at one point in time, the

faster the better. I.e. I'd rather save my own

behind and get out of here as fast as possible

than wait for everybody else to finish up and get out. Because that is like

waiting around for the party to

finish in order to clean up afterwards.

 

(notwithstanding that with that kind of attitude,

I will probably be among the last anyway... )

 

But to be more serious, the vows really are serious

promises.

 

I have specific and detailed memories of at least 25

lives and in the last, I gave up every right for

having an individual life and vowed to give everything

for somebody else. I did it with eagerness and

joy in the start, but it ended badly.

 

In the end I found that the sacrifice was too much and

I asked for some time out to get myself in order.

Because of the circumstances that was not possible and

all I could do was try and save my own reputation

(ego again, yes I know) by making a life sacrifice.

 

I really

wanted to look out for the ones that were in my care,

but it was really hard and when I was gone,

the ppl I tried to look out for probably went into

annihilation themselves.

 

Thus, I feel I failed twice, in upholding my vow and

when breaking it, in looking out for ppl, which

by then had become more important than the vow itself.

 

Maybe it all happened b/c of lack of ego, but it

feels heavy nevertheless.

 

The vow then was an iron law with no room for

flexibility or excuses and there was absolutely

no getting out.

 

I am concerned that the Bodhisattva vows will be the

same, a crushing responsibility for a task which in

the end will turn out to be too demanding.

 

Still, I feel that returning some of the little

glimpses I've had of the force/god to other ppl and

helping them a little along the way would be rewarding

and worthwhile,

because I know how much I thirsted for unconditional

love myself.

 

Very ambivalent about it all.

 

Well, it probably again just shows how much ego I

have left to lose before attaining anything at all.

 

Thanks for sharing your enthusiasm and joy with us.

 

 

Sorry for being such a wet blanket, but at least it

made me realize a few things.

 

Best regards,

 

Amanda.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com

[Guest guest]

On Mon, 10 May 1999 09:04:39 Debora A. Orf wrote:

>when i first heard this vow, i felt like everything in me stood on end. it

>was something wonderful, and i had to do it . Cant tell if motivation

>was compassion or just "Wow! that's cool!". Maybe a little of both .

>

>IMO: there's little more cool thing to do than to live for others for

>real. its like way hard to do, but what a cool thing! i want to do that.

>im not there yet, but i want to be.

 

And Amanda Erhart replied:

>Well, Deborah, I am happy that you view the vows with

>such enthusiasm.

>I personally won't take the vows

>(if I ever do it) with eagerness.

 

Who is this "I" that takes vows?

How are "others" separate from oneself?

How do "I" save "others" if "others" and "I" are not separate?

What is there to be "saved" from?

 

Regards,

John Thomas