Masks

[Guest guest]

I think this issue of masks is a critical one. One person points

out what they think is another person's mask. A second person

says it not nice to point out someone's mask. The mask owner

says he likes his mask thank you. Another person says they want

a mask like that one.

 

The thing about masks is that the sleeping person thinks they are

their mask. I mean they don't see that it is a mask. It is fairly easy

even for a sleeping person to see someone else's mask. That

doesn't take any great skill really. But to see your own is quite

another thing. There is an old saying which goes like this.......

"Everyone knows George but George."

 

So really if a person was sincere in their desire to wake up they

would welcome any and all information regarding their mask.

It would seem to me that every piece of information given to a

person would be valued and tested to verify whether it was true

or not. In fact I would even go so far to say that the more defensive

a person is about a statement made about them the chances are

that the proportion of truth contained within would be higher. In

other words it is an inverse proportional relationship.

 

I have been studying for the last couple days a system of personality

or egoic types. Probably many of you are already familiar with it.

It is the Enneagram of Character Fixation. In this system there are

nine different character types which are clustered around three core

fixations of the negative emotions of anger, fear, and hysteria or

image. It appears that in each core triad one type is centered right

on the core while the other two seem to be the polarity of extroverted

and introverted.

 

There is a higher octave and a lower octave. The higher octave has

a Holy Idea and a Holy Path. The lower octave takes the higher idea

and misuses it through the path to justify the ego.

 

Example....

 

Type Eight is the Warrior

 

the abusive personality

externalized anger point

 

holy idea is truth

holy path is innocence

 

passion is lust

idealization is I am competent

talking style is to lay trips

trap is justice

defense mechanism is denial

avoidance is weakness

dichotomy is puritan/hedonist

 

exemplars: Georges Gurdjieff, Jack Nicholson, Idi Amin, Katharine Hepburn,

Madame Blavatsky, Beethoven, Fritz Perls, Stalin, Swami Muktananda,

Chogyam Trungpa, Robert De Niro

 

"The Holy Idea in eight is Truth, and the Path is Innocence. The ego-

structure of the eight personality takes the holy idea and uses it for

justifying the ego. As the nine takes the holy idea of love and uses it

for justifying laziness in the face of anger, eights take the Holy Idea

of truth and the Path of Innocence and use it for justifying

vengeance and blame."

 

"Eights are the blamers in the world. Everyone blames someone once

in a while, but eights do it compulsively. Eights take the burning

sense of "I am innocent! I didn't do it!" and use that self righteous

stance to blame the world.

 

"Eights are always willing to raise the ante, either in defense of their

innocence or in protecting an underdog from injustice. When the

eight ego misuses the Holy Idea of Truth it becomes, "Don't give

me any of your bullshit. I can detect bullshit. I'm interested in the

truth." Yet eights generally are the biggest liars and bullies on

the Enneagram."

 

(my middle child is an eight <s>) I love her very much.

She keeps me on my toes. Her aim is to become a Supreme

Court Justice.

 

Marcia

[Guest guest]

I always wonder why a person is making a certain statement. It is not always

the statement that i am interested in but rather why someone is making the

statement. in other words, i often prefer to look at the person that is

making the statement instead of the statement itself.

This always gives me much problems with people around me because they say i

am not always replying to what they say which, in a way, is true. i very

often reply with another question which they find very irritating because,

from their point of view, it has nothing to do with their question.

when someone is stating that i am wearing a mask then several things are

involved. is the other person stating that i wear a mask because he wants

to hurt me or to help me discover my mask ? it all depends on the quality of

being of the questioner.

 

bi

hans

[Guest guest]

Message: 17

Tue, 11 May 1999 19:52:03 -0700

Marcia Paul <jacpa

Masks

 

<< I think this issue of masks is a critical one. One person points out

what they think is another person's mask. A second person says it not

nice to point out someone's mask. The mask owner says he likes his mask

thank you. Another person says they want a mask like that one.

 

The thing about masks is that the sleeping person thinks they are their

mask. I mean they don't see that it is a mask. It is fairly easy even

for a sleeping person to see someone else's mask. That doesn't take any

great skill really. But to see your own is quite another thing. There is

an old saying which goes like this....... "Everyone knows George but

George."

 

So really if a person was sincere in their desire to wake up they would

welcome any and all information regarding their mask. >>

 

 

<< I have been studying for the last couple days a system of personality

or egoic types. Probably many of you are already familiar with it. It is

the Enneagram of Character Fixation. In this system there are nine

different character types which are clustered around three core

fixations of the negative emotions of anger, fear, and hysteria or

image. >>

 

Hello Marcia,

 

Before going to go buy myself a yellow mask at the store, i thought i

should know the size of the one i have on, so i buy one that fits best

on my face

 

If you want to practice on me, on determining what kind of mask you see

from your studies, from the personality you detect from me on the

e-mail's or anything you simply see in what i represent, I would gladly

appreciate such an input.

 

Must probably everyone knows Antoine, but Antoine.

 

Always interested in knowing myself,

 

Antoine

 

<< (my middle child is an eight <s>) I love her very much. She keeps me

on my toes. Her aim is to become a Supreme Court Justice.

 

Marcia >>

[Guest guest]

Antoine wrote:

> Before going to go buy myself a yellow mask at the store, i thought i

> should know the size of the one i have on, so i buy one that fits best

> on my face

>

> If you want to practice on me, on determining what kind of mask you see

> from your studies, from the personality you detect from me on the

> e-mail's or anything you simply see in what i represent, I would gladly

> appreciate such an input.

>

> Must probably everyone knows Antoine, but Antoine.

>

> Always interested in knowing myself,

 

Marcia:

 

Hi Antonie,

 

I was thinking about you today in conjunction with the I Ching.

I was feeling you as being very fluid and being in tune with the

changing aspect of the I Ching. Actually I composed an entire

post in my mind comparing the I Ching with the Statement of

Changes in Financial Position.

 

There are three basic financial statements; the Balance Sheet,

the Income Statement aka the Profit and Loss Statement, and

the Statement of Changes in Financial Position. I compared

the Balance Sheet which is a point in time statement with a

Hexagram and the Profit and Loss Statement with the firm and

yielding lines and the Statement of Changes in Financial Position

with the movement between the two. I used to model a premium

winery and vineyard. From the planting of the vines to the sale

of the bottle of premium wine could take ten years. At the end

of the ten years it was possible to make a 60% profit but a lot

of cash had to be invested long before any cash was received.

Anyway I started to get tired of my own post before I finished it

so I didn't post it. (Aren't you glad?) There was lots more. :-)

 

Getting back to you......It is really hard to know someone on

a mail list unless you have been exchanging with them for awhile

but like I said I feel your fluidity. Your thoughts are fluid. I don't

feel discrete stopping points or well defined positions. Make

sense? You circle. I could be way off base here. I have only

read two of the nine enneatypes as they are called. It is advised

in the beginning to read several times through and not to use to

club anybody with. :-)

[Guest guest]

Case 12 from the mumonkan:

 

Zuigan called out to himself every day: `Master.'

 

Then he answered himself: `Yes, sir.'

 

And after that he added: `Become sober.'

 

Again he answered: `Yes, sir.'

 

`And after that,' he continued, `do not be deceived by others.'

 

`Yes, sir; yes, sir,' he answered.

 

Mumon's Comment: Old Zuigan sells out and buys himself. He is opening a puppet

show. He uses

one mask to call `Master' and another that answers the master. Another mask says

`Sober up' and

another, `Don't be cheated by others.' If anyone clings to any of his masks, he

is mistaken, yet if he

imitates Zuigan, he will make himself fox-like.

[Guest guest]

Wed, 12 May 1999 18:45:33 +0200

>

>"Hans Deunhouwer" <ja.deunhouwer

it all depends on the quality of

>being of the questioner.

and the difference, if any, between projection and reflection. Who sees who?

Tamra

>

>bi

>hans

>

>

>------

>Looking to expand your world?

>

>ONElist has over 145,000 email communities from which to chose!

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Message: 11

Wed, 12 May 1999 20:54:04 -0700

Marcia Paul <jacpa

Re: Masks

 

 

Marcia:

<< Getting back to you......It is really hard to know someone on a mail

list... >>

 

A different interface a different person, a different mask...

 

<< unless you have been exchanging with them for awhile but like I said

I feel your fluidity. Your thoughts are fluid. I don't feel discrete

stopping points or well defined positions. Make sense?

 

Yes

 

<< You circle. I could be way off base here. I have only read two of the

nine enneatypes as they are called. It is advised in the beginning to

read several times through and not to use to club anybody with. :-) >>

 

My father once told me that i slide into, and out off, circles like a

butterfly jumping from flowers to flowers. So i guess the circling fluid

pattern is a part of me. Thank you for pointing it to me, i will listen

more careffully how this pattern is a nice legacy from my father or more

part of my 'natural' way of being.

 

Enjoy,

Antoine or Antonie

 

--

"An act of goodness is of itself an act of happiness. No reward coming

after the event can compare with the sweet reward that went with it."

(Maeterlinck, Maurice)

[Guest guest]

Antoine wrote:

> Enjoy,

> Antoine or Antonie

>

 

Hi Antoine,

 

:-) I realized yesterday after I pressed the send button that

I have been spelling your name wrong all along. Sorry. I

didn't know whether to apologize or not. I was sure you

had noticed but wasn't sure about all the others. Ha Ha.

I spent several minutes feeling flustered about my error.

Then I let go of it.

 

Speaking of masks what one is that?

 

Marcia