Tantric "teachings"

[Guest guest]

At 10:04 AM 5/27/99 +0930, you wrote:

>Susanne Macrae <smacrae

>

>Thank you for your welcome. I am always keen to enter discussion on food!

I >have posted a short essay I had written on the Tantric view of food.

Tantric

>teaching is that the body is as important as the soul.

 

How could that be possible? The body will die. For some it will die in 5

minutes, for some in 5 years, for some in 20 years, for some in 50 years,

but it will die. The body is impermanent and attachment to that which is

impermanent is the source of all suffering, and keeps the wheel of death

and rebirth turning.

 

"The soul" or the Atman will never die. There is only One soul, and that

is the Atman, the One without a second, that which cannot be named, that

which is formless, timeless, birthless and deathless.

 

How can a chunk of meat, bone, blood and flesh destined in a tiny, brief

flash of time for the grave or to be burnt and the ashes scattered be as

important as the eternal, immortal, unchanging, everlasting Atman?

 

If what you say is true (that the body is as important as the soul in

Tantric teachings), then Tantric teachings are foolish and encourage

attachment to that which is impermanent and mortal. This kind of

attachment would be foolish, dangerous and immature, and Tantric teachings

would fall under the same category. Since I do not know if what you say

about Tantric teachings is true, I will withhold judgement at this time.

>we are neglecting and abusing the Divine.

 

The Divine cannot be abused. To say so is to utter the words of a fool who

knows nothing of the nature of the Divine.

 

You will get no welcome from this mind if you bring ignorance and

foolishness into our midst.

 

Aham Brahmasmi,

 

Tim

 

-----

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[Guest guest]

Tim, dearest One;

 

Ah, another post, beloved man, where you express both little wisdom and

less sincerity.

 

Tim, I don't suppose that you read my recent essay on tantra?

 

Friend, you quickly blurt out dogma, but your capacity to present any

rational argument is utterly nonexistent. Are your mind and heart so

closed that you cannot even attempt to understand anything beyond the views

that you express so carelessly?

 

Tim, you have never expressed a single rational explanation for the

'absolute' separation of atma, undifferentiated consciousness from

differentiated consciousness. Do you really understand the nature of the

difference between mutable Reality and immutable Reality? Can you possibly

have any understanding of the perspective that you so zealously espouse?

And, Tim, please, this is a forum for many views. ALL views DEMAND to be

treated with respect--especially, if one does not possess the patience to

actually go to the library or bookstore and STUDY what one so fervently

abjures.

 

Tim, you have little or no actual knowledge of the traditions and

metaphysics of tantra. Nor do you understand Kashmir Shaivism, a tradition

that were introduced to only several weeks ago.

 

As a member of this Satsangh community, Tim, you bear a sacred

responsibility to uphold the values that Harsha reflects and that the

majority of satsanghers exemplify. These values include, compassion,

patience and tolerance for views that may differ from your own. Now, if

you wish to truly delve into the philosophy of nondualism, if you wish to

present well-reasoned views regarding the nature of Reality, Atma and such

matters, please do so! Again, you are an efficient quoter of 'party lines'

but you have little intellectual capacity to back up your wholesale

declarations that claim, "This is the way it is because I say so!" Tim, if

each member of this satsangh behaved as you, all of our posts would soon be

filled with "foolish this..." and "silly that...." We would cease to be

any kind of community at all.

 

Please, Tim, as a member of our community, share the group's commitment to

love and respect for the varied experiences and paths of its members!

 

And, if you think you are truly up to metaphysical debate regarding the

nature of God, Atma, Self or otherwise, please let me know. Quite frankly,

I am reasonably certain that you are not equipped for the challenge.

 

 

Madhya Nandi

[Guest guest]

Harsha: Thank you Madhyaji for your very well reasoned and eloquent post

about TimG's latest comments on a Tantra post on both these lists. Your

compassion for TimG is deeply moving. Further, I hope your spiritual

challenge to TimG to justify his stance will nudge Tim towards a deeper

understanding of nondualism. Perhaps Tim will take this opportunity to

understand other perspectives on nondualism. Perhaps TimG will come to a

greater appreciation of the need for all of us to respect each others views

in this satsangh. Thank you for teaching us Madhyaji and thank you for your

post. You have our gratitude.

 

"Madhya Nandi" <madhya

 

Tim, dearest One;

 

Ah, another post, beloved man, where you express both little wisdom and

less sincerity.

 

Tim, I don't suppose that you read my recent essay on tantra?

 

Friend, you quickly blurt out dogma, but your capacity to present any

rational argument is utterly nonexistent. Are your mind and heart so

closed that you cannot even attempt to understand anything beyond the views

that you express so carelessly?

 

Tim, you have never expressed a single rational explanation for the

'absolute' separation of atma, undifferentiated consciousness from

differentiated consciousness. Do you really understand the nature of the

difference between mutable Reality and immutable Reality? Can you possibly

have any understanding of the perspective that you so zealously espouse?

And, Tim, please, this is a forum for many views. ALL views DEMAND to be

treated with respect--especially, if one does not possess the patience to

actually go to the library or bookstore and STUDY what one so fervently

abjures.

 

Tim, you have little or no actual knowledge of the traditions and

metaphysics of tantra. Nor do you understand Kashmir Shaivism, a tradition

that were introduced to only several weeks ago.

 

As a member of this Satsangh community, Tim, you bear a sacred

responsibility to uphold the values that Harsha reflects and that the

majority of satsanghers exemplify. These values include, compassion,

patience and tolerance for views that may differ from your own. Now, if

you wish to truly delve into the philosophy of nondualism, if you wish to

present well-reasoned views regarding the nature of Reality, Atma and such

matters, please do so! Again, you are an efficient quoter of 'party lines'

but you have little intellectual capacity to back up your wholesale

declarations that claim, "This is the way it is because I say so!" Tim, if

each member of this satsangh behaved as you, all of our posts would soon be

filled with "foolish this..." and "silly that...." We would cease to be

any kind of community at all.

 

Please, Tim, as a member of our community, share the group's commitment to

love and respect for the varied experiences and paths of its members!

 

And, if you think you are truly up to metaphysical debate regarding the

nature of God, Atma, Self or otherwise, please let me know. Quite frankly,

I am reasonably certain that you are not equipped for the challenge.

 

 

Madhya Nandi

[Guest guest]

Tim Gerchmez wrote:

> Tim Gerchmez <fewtch

>

>

> The body will die. For some it will die in 5

> minutes, for some in 5 years, for some in 20 years, for some in 50 years,

> but it will die.

 

We are all a bit slow learning that the body only dies because we choose that.

We think we will be reunited with our Creator at death and when we aren't we

come back in body for another opportunity to learn that dying isn't the way. We

are very slow learners. In the age of Satya Yuga we lived to about 100,000

years and even in Dvapara Yuga we lived to about 800. In Kali Yuga we have

forgotten some really basic tenets of physical life and are "lucky" to live to

80.

> The body is impermanent and attachment to that which is

> impermanent is the source of all suffering, and keeps the wheel of death

> and rebirth turning.

>

Our attachment is also to suffering. Why go through many rebirths when we can

maintain the one body for as long as we choose by balancing the pure and impure

in our lives. By rebirthing so often we become attached to the suffering of

birth and death and all the drama in between.

 

> If what you say is true (that the body is as important as the soul in

> Tantric teachings), then Tantric teachings are foolish and encourage

> attachment to that which is impermanent and mortal.

 

Tantra teaches detachment and when this is achieved we turn back on the

objectthat was detached and we become it, not to re-attach but to experience

ourselves as it. Only when we accomplish detachment from the physical body

(duality) can we become the physical body (unification) and it can then be

preserved indefinitely.

 

You use some potent words, fool, foolish, foolishness, dangerous, immature and

ignorance in

your response to my post. If you read my post on Negative Thoughts, you may

learn that

these words are your own subconscious message to yourself about yourself. What

we think and

say about others is our own truth about ourselves. Not just some of the time

or when it suits, but

in all things we think and say.

 

Regards,

Sue

http://www.adelaide.net.au/~smacrae