!self preserves

[Guest guest]

At 04:39 PM 5/26/99 -0700, you wrote:

>Marcia Paul <jacpa

>When you have these meditative experiences that you describe

>you don't feel them in your body?

 

Whether or not they are "felt" in the body is entirely unimportant. Sexual

orgasm is also felt in the body. So is the "high" from various drugs. Do

you consider these things to be important? Do you do cocaine to get the

rush? Or do you seek spiritual experiences because they're cheaper, and

you won't get arrested? Believe me, cocaine's a better high.

>Your body is not ignited

>with energy?

 

"Your?" "My" body is the body of the eternal, undying Atman. There is

nothing but the Atman. I am That.

 

"I" grow tired of this duality, this focus on the impermanent and

unchanging, this grasping and clinging "I" see in others. If you seek

spiritual experiences that are felt in the body, that's precisely what

you'll be - a seeker of spiritual experiences. And to be such is to

utterly waste the potential of realization of union with something much

higher, to waste this rare human birth, and to ultimately waste this entire

lifetime.

>For instance I bet Andrew's experience this morning

>was grounded in his body.

 

Why don't we get this straight, here and now. The body is impermanent and

is growing older. It is subject to disease and sickness, and it will die.

It is dying now as you read this. It has been dying since the day of its

birth. When it is gone, it will never be back again. Being impermanent,

it is unimportant. To focus any but the most minor attention on it

(keeping it reasonably healthy) is to waste this precious human birth

attending to things that are going to be gone in an instant, in a flash,

that will return to the Earth and be no more.

 

The sooner it is understood that the body is unimportant, the sooner it

will be realized that the One True Nature is birthless and deathless. Do

not waste time focusing attention on impermanent things. Wake up! Do it

now, or do it on your deathbed. But realize that if done now, it will be

far less traumatic, and you might actually have a chance at not having to

go through this whole thing again.

>It seems to me that the body is the instrument of our perception.

 

The body perceives mainly lies. The senses lie and cause attachment to

pleasures that are temporary and passing, and that cause misery and bondage

to sense-cravings.

 

This has to be made clear, and clear as daylight. FOCUS INORDINATE

ATTENTION ON THE BODY, AND COMMIT SPIRITUAL SUICIDE . Clutch at the unreal

and destroy yourself (to quote Adi Shankara), if you wish.

 

Aham Brahmasmi,

 

Tim

 

-----

Visit The Core of the WWW at:

http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html

Music, Poetry, Writings on Nondual Spiritual Topics.

 

Tim's Windows and DOS Shareware/Freeware is at:

http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/shareware.html

[Guest guest]

At 09:19 PM 5/26/99 -0300, you wrote:

>andrew macnab <a.macnab

>Can any experience be except through the body?-- not necessarily the

senses >but still the body.

 

Yes, absolutely. But you won't know this until attention to the body is

dropped and attention is placed where attention should be at all times - on

the Absolute, the Atman. The Atman is not the body. The Atman is not

experienced through thought or through the mind, and cannot be known

through anything having to do with the body.

 

There is a great deal of ignorance in these forums.

 

Aham Brahmasmi,

 

Tim

 

-----

Visit The Core of the WWW at:

http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html

Music, Poetry, Writings on Nondual Spiritual Topics.

 

Tim's Windows and DOS Shareware/Freeware is at:

http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/shareware.html

[Guest guest]

Tim Gerchmez responded to Andrew Macnab:

>

>

> >Can any experience be except through the body?-- not necessarily the

> senses >but still the body.

 

> Yes, absolutely. But you won't know this until attention to the body is

> dropped and attention is placed where attention should be at all times - on

> the Absolute, the Atman. The Atman is not the body. The Atman is not

> experienced through thought or through the mind, and cannot be known

> through anything having to do with the body.

>

> There is a great deal of ignorance in these forums.

>

> Aham Brahmasmi,

>

> Tim

 

 

Jerry responds further:

 

There is the physical body, and then there are the subtle bodies.

Anything that can be attended to is housed within a 'body'. The most

sublime spiritual experience anyone has ever had-- the greatest mystical

experience of all time -- is an experience within a subtle body.

 

This can only be known prior to 'attaining' The Absolute. In fact, once

the Absolute is 'attained', a person no longer 'has' such knowledge;

there is really nothing they can speak about. There are no experiences.

 

Everything can be attended to. Except the Absolute. For, clearly,

attending to anything is dualistic, in need of the mind.

 

We haven't heard from Emily Dickinson lately. One feels her push beyond

the mind, beyond the 'lisp' of the Absolute. What she touches upon is

the best anyone can 'do', that is, intuit, 'consult the eye'. That is

what you are talking about, Tim. But neither you nor Emily Dickinson

have BECOME what you speak about. You are both gifts to the world and

both have profound understanding, and that is all, and where do you go

from there?

 

Emily Dickinson:

 

By intuition, Mighty Things

Assert themselves – and not by terms –

“I”m Midnight” – need the Midnight say –

“I”m Sunrise” – Need the Majesty?

Omnipotence – had not a Tongue –

His lisp – is lightning – and the sun –

His Conversation– with Sea –

“How shall you know”?

Consult your eye!

----

For the most pleasurable article from which I took this poem, go to

<http://www.sol.com.au/kor/13_01.htm>

[Guest guest]

>Why don't we get this straight, here and now. The body is impermanent and

>is growing older. It is subject to disease and sickness, and it will die.

 

Not necessarily.

 

 

Learned comments invited... I know little about this.

[Guest guest]

Hi Jerry,

>There is the physical body, and then there are the subtle bodies.

>Anything that can be attended to is housed within a 'body'. The most

>sublime spiritual experience anyone has ever had-- the greatest mystical

>experience of all time -- is an experience within a subtle body.

>

>This can only be known prior to 'attaining' The Absolute. In fact, once

>the Absolute is 'attained', a person no longer 'has' such knowledge;

>there is really nothing they can speak about. There are no experiences.

 

It seems to me that the remembered THAT can only be a memory... brought

down however imperfectly through the higher subtle bodies to the "brain

memory." And that memory can never be adequate to THAT.

[Guest guest]

Tim Gerchmez wrote:

 

<snip>

> This has to be made clear, and clear as daylight. FOCUS INORDINATE

> ATTENTION ON THE BODY, AND COMMIT SPIRITUAL SUICIDE . Clutch at the

unreal

> and destroy yourself (to quote Adi Shankara), if you wish.

>

 

Marcia:

 

Doesn't it seem to you that you are creating the biggest duality

of all here? Besides who said anything about "inordinate"? You

added that.